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GAA Discussion => Hurling Discussion => Topic started by: seafoid on April 27, 2021, 09:24:05 AM

Title: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Odds 6/5/21

Limerick   5/4
Galway    5/1
Tipp        11/2
KK          9/1
Cork       12/1
Deise      14/1
Clare       20/1
Wex        22/1
Dublin     50/1 
Laois   1000/1



https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/liam-griffin-hopeful-wexford-are-getting-closer-to-the-heady-heights-of-1996-1.4548101

Liam Griffin hopeful Wexford are getting closer to the heady heights of 1996
Former Model County manager believes cynical fouling needs to be cracked down on

Seán Moran

 
Liam Griffin is in characteristically good form. He’s had a knee replacement operation and that is settling nicely.

“It’s like Ned Wheeler said to me when he got his hip done. He said it’s that good that although there’s nothing wrong with the other one, he’d get it done anyway!”

His Laochra Gael programme is the last one in the current series and he is aware of the timing for Wexford hurling: 26 years since the glorious summer of 1996 when the future was one of endless possibility - just two years shorter than the gap that team closed all the way back to 1968, which seemed like an eternity.

Did he think that it would be this long again?

“No, not in my wildest dreams did I think that. For me, I thought that after ‘96 we would kick on. Maybe it wasn’t realistic when you look back on it because we had some of the really good players who were already in their early 30s.

“So, we probably didn’t dwell on that an awful lot, or enough really, but it is disappointing. A son of mine, Rory, he actually wrote a study on Wexford hurling, and earlier this year he sent me it, ‘it won’t be long now till 28 years,’ - that’s all he put on it.”

He believes that prospects are better for Wexford now than in 1996 because the county is better geared towards player development. New county chair Micheál Martin has done a lot of work at Croke Park level to untangle the knots at underage levels nationally.

“So hopefully we are going to get up there. Hurling needs Wexford and I really believe that. And we need Offaly. We need everybody but hurling certainly needs Wexford.”

Unlikely
Is it possible that someone could emulate Griffin’s achievement by bringing a team from effectively nowhere to winning an All-Ireland?

“Unlikely I would say,” he replies. “We worked a lot on sports science. We went through the whole year without having a pulled muscle. We worked very carefully on what we tried to do because we were not Brian Cody and Kilkenny, we did not have the riches they have.

“We put in a good system. Everyone was fit and we did a whole list of things to see if we could bridge the gap. We wrote down things that we could do. Why couldn’t we be the fittest team in Ireland? Why couldn’t we be the best hookers and blockers in Ireland? Why couldn’t we do all the heavy lifting and workman-like team? Why couldn’t we be the most disciplined team in Ireland?

“We put a lot of effort into getting that right and we brought in a sports psychologist as well because I was trying to do that and obviously I am not a professional. We tried to give ourselves every chance but if you did that today you would be matched by other people who are doing exactly the same.”

The game has also changed, he says, “. . . possession has become paramount. A lot of the hurling is very good, I’m not saying it’s not - I wouldn’t have minded playing in this era myself - but the cynical fouling is an issue.

“It is not good enough because in 2019 the All-Ireland was 26 matches and the teams that won the most, fouled the most and that is just an underlying symptom of cynical fouling.

“The scrums, the rucks, ground hurling going out of the game - it’s evolved. Some of it is very good and some of it is not so good as a spectacle but overall the players are good, the skills are good. The absence of goals is an issue and takes a bit of excitement out of the game.

“Some of the shooting is spectacularly good, but having an extra man means a lot of loose play as well. You have loose men popping up in places, as happened in the All-Ireland final last year.”

Volunteers
He has plenty to say on other topical issues. An early backer of the Club Players’ Association, he is content that their work as a lobby group ‘to fix the fixtures’ is now done - with a little help from the pandemic.

“We were completely volunteers. We weren’t looking for anything except to get the fixtures fixed. That was it. But for Covid it wouldn’t have happened in my opinion. We would have written to every county board at one stage, every single county board to say this is what we’re trying to do. We never got a single reply. Not one. That was disappointing.

“There’s no triumphalism from anyone on our side. That’s it and we walked away when we said we would - when the fixtures were fixed.”

A successful hotelier and businessman, he is adamant that the GAA need to deploy their huge asset base to raise funds by borrowing.

“What I don’t want to see is that we’re trying very hard in Wexford to keep a very good structure at underage and letting coaches go when you could borrow money and do some sort of a deal on it. I think that would be to undermine the game when it’s already being undermined. You don’t do a double undermining - that’s not a great management policy!”

*Liam Griffin will feature in the sixth and final episode of the latest Laochra Gael series, on TG4 this Thursday at 9.30 pm.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:50:54 AM
Had the pleasure of his company a few times and he's always a good listen, passionate but intelligent with it.

One of our coaches managed to get himself on a Limerick hurling coaching webinar a couple of months ago and they have tackling and overturning the opposition a big part of their game so the flip-side of that is that frees will be conceded but they obviously think the gain is worth it.
Shoulder charges are a no, no as mistimed ones lead to red cards. They are more into the arm tackles, slow the man down till the cavalry arrives, which IMO are fouls all day long but referee's aren't blowing them as they'll be seen to not letting the game flow. The game isn't flowing anyway with this going on.

It's not just Limerick to be fair, Kilkenny were/are masters of the half foul, whereas the Clare lads are still inclined to throw out the old fashioned belt with the hurl  :D

As for Wexford, they've some great attacking hurlers but the way Davy lines them out they're looking to win by a deluge of long range points rather than feed balls into the forwards like Limerick do and last year they were truly flat. It'll be interesting if they show a kick or not this year.
Davy's teams burn fast and die off quick. He may have won a Leinster with them and that might be his lot..
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 10:00:32 AM
I would have a funny feeling Wexford have peaked with him. Just a feeling but like you say he burns them out. 
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 09:16:14 AM
This is very good

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0509/1217922-cusack-new-advantage-rule-needs-to-go-asap/
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 10, 2021, 10:34:54 AM
This is very good

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0509/1217922-cusack-new-advantage-rule-needs-to-go-asap/

Don't see why the felt the need to change the advantage rule out the field. Being fouled in the tackle yet still riding it out and maintain possession only for a referee to blow the foul will have two outcomes. We'll have free takers coming way out the field to pop the ball over the bar from 80 plus meters. You'll have teams fouling if they lose possession to allow their defence time to get set.

The games over the weekend weren't great barring maybe the Cork/Waterford game and Antrim/Clare with freetaking fests for Tipp and Limerick. I think Tipp didn't score from play for almost 20 minutes FFS.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 10, 2021, 03:00:10 PM
hurling is gone so tippy tappy

only the top few teams are good enough to do it.
much better to let the ball in early to a bit of space and give a forward a chance.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 10, 2021, 05:08:42 PM
hurling is gone so tippy tappy

only the top few teams are good enough to do it.
much better to let the ball in early to a bit of space and give a forward a chance.

Top teams don't leave much space for forwards to operate in, hence the long range points fests we're currently experiencing.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: didlyi on May 10, 2021, 05:15:58 PM
hurling is gone so tippy tappy

only the top few teams are good enough to do it.
much better to let the ball in early to a bit of space and give a forward a chance.

You cant please everyone. Is that not hit and hope hurling that constantly gets berated around here?
Somehow I preferred it too.!
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 12, 2021, 07:47:39 AM
hurling is gone so tippy tappy

only the top few teams are good enough to do it.
much better to let the ball in early to a bit of space and give a forward a chance.

You cant please everyone. Is that not hit and hope hurling that constantly gets berated around here?
Somehow I preferred it too.!
Never said hit and hope.
You need intelligent delivery into forwards

I see clubs trying to play this over complicated hurling. Not every panel has the players capable of it
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 12, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Corks opening goal was a well work team effort which ran at the Waterford defence, runners coming off the shoulder and laying the ball either handpass or stick pass to the person in the better position to score, I don't see the problem with players playing to the rules and adopting their game and style of players to make it suit.

Not every team can win its own balls or spread it wide to the wings, possession is key nowadays and like basketball should you loose possession in your own half and the ball is turned over it will probably result in a score for the other team.

Cork were very good at the weekend so it'll be interesting to see how well they fair against the other big teams, Donal O'Grady back with Cork, seen him in the stands
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 12, 2021, 03:32:17 PM
Corks opening goal was a well work team effort which ran at the Waterford defence, runners coming off the shoulder and laying the ball either handpass or stick pass to the person in the better position to score, I don't see the problem with players playing to the rules and adopting their game and style of players to make it suit.

Not every team can win its own balls or spread it wide to the wings, possession is key nowadays and like basketball should you loose possession in your own half and the ball is turned over it will probably result in a score for the other team.

Cork were very good at the weekend so it'll be interesting to see how well they fair against the other big teams, Donal O'Grady back with Cork, seen him in the stands

Well worked goal indeed but the Waterford defence was pretty generous as I think there were only two defenders inside the 20M line when Cork scored..

Limerick won't let them get that far, but we need a competitive Cork to throw into the mix to spruce it up a bit

Lehane and a few others let go and probably still in their prime, Kingston setting his stall out..
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Antrim Coaster on May 13, 2021, 12:10:20 PM
I noticed some very high points tallies from last night’s Antrim League results, along with high scores from the National Leagues.

The Mayo keeper put one over the Derry bar from his own 14 metre line.

This very high scoring has been a feature of the game this past few years.

Have the sliotars become lighter or has the interior material changed to make the ball travel further?

I know there was a change to the weight/structure of the ball 15/20 years ago and there were calls to revert to the older ball. DJ Carey and the likes weren’t too happy with the new ball at that time.

Not sure if this a good thing. I think the days of the 1-7 to 0-10 results are long gone.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: didlyi on May 15, 2021, 12:46:06 PM
When we had 1-7 to 10 people were complaining about the standard of hurling. The ball maybbe lighter but the payers are fitter and the hurleys are now much larger than before. The origin of hurley design was for ground hurling. Now that thats gone you wonder what kind of hurley will be used in 30 years time. Will they look more like tennis rackets than hurleys? For starters I wish they would implement the bos size regulations that I believe is documented somewhere. Doesnt Golf have a whole range of regulations for golf clubs.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2021, 01:08:40 PM
When we had 1-7 to 10 people were complaining about the standard of hurling. The ball maybbe lighter but the payers are fitter and the hurleys are now much larger than before. The origin of hurley design was for ground hurling. Now that thats gone you wonder what kind of hurley will be used in 30 years time. Will they look more like tennis rackets than hurleys? For starters I wish they would implement the bos size regulations that I believe is documented somewhere. Doesnt Golf have a whole range of regulations for golf clubs.

Im pretty sure there is bos size regulation, is it being implemented/checked? No.

But tennis size will not be brought it, the sport has had a few changes, not much wrong with it other than ones trying to ruin it by making daft changes
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: didlyi on May 15, 2021, 07:13:58 PM
No its not being checked. Why not?
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
It's only the League but a tidy win over Limerick for Galway.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
It's only the League but a tidy win over Limerick for Galway.

Didn’t looked too pushed either.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 07:32:14 PM
No its not being checked. Why not?

Who should check it?
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: didlyi on May 16, 2021, 10:20:42 PM
Start with the hurley makers and let the gaa do random checks. Would Ping or titleist make oversized golf clubs if they were illegal? It would not a difficult thing to regulate if there was a will.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 17, 2021, 08:59:34 AM
No its not being checked. Why not?

Who should check it?

Sure they can't even check that faceguards haven't been tampered with, bars removed etc etc and that's a health and safety issue!

Lost count of the number of lads on TV over the weekend with illegal face guards.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2021, 09:03:41 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/evan-niland-the-star-as-galway-end-limerick-s-unbeaten-run-1.4566848

That Niland was given so many chances to do damage incensed Limerick manager John Kiely, who had protested the number of frees awarded in the opening match against Tipperary and again this weekend he was unhappy with a free count that broke nearly two to one against his side.
“It does appear that the game has changed in the last four months whilst we’ve all been at home and somebody has decided to take the tackle out of the game. I’d love to know who they were and when that was decided.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 17, 2021, 09:12:00 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/evan-niland-the-star-as-galway-end-limerick-s-unbeaten-run-1.4566848

That Niland was given so many chances to do damage incensed Limerick manager John Kiely, who had protested the number of frees awarded in the opening match against Tipperary and again this weekend he was unhappy with a free count that broke nearly two to one against his side.
“It does appear that the game has changed in the last four months whilst we’ve all been at home and somebody has decided to take the tackle out of the game. I’d love to know who they were and when that was decided.

Tackle in one thing and is still there, but throwing your arms around an opponent should always have been a free and if they start refereeing that properly it'll be a positive for the game.

Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2021, 09:18:22 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/evan-niland-the-star-as-galway-end-limerick-s-unbeaten-run-1.4566848

That Niland was given so many chances to do damage incensed Limerick manager John Kiely, who had protested the number of frees awarded in the opening match against Tipperary and again this weekend he was unhappy with a free count that broke nearly two to one against his side.
“It does appear that the game has changed in the last four months whilst we’ve all been at home and somebody has decided to take the tackle out of the game. I’d love to know who they were and when that was decided.

Tackle in one thing and is still there, but throwing your arms around an opponent should always have been a free and if they start refereeing that properly it'll be a positive for the game.

Play on the edge, they need to rein in some of their tackles and they'll be fine
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Dag Dog on May 17, 2021, 10:33:38 AM
There seems to be a media campaign starting up against Limerick in the last few weeks.
We nearly should have expected what happened with the ref yesterday.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 17, 2021, 10:42:06 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/evan-niland-the-star-as-galway-end-limerick-s-unbeaten-run-1.4566848

That Niland was given so many chances to do damage incensed Limerick manager John Kiely, who had protested the number of frees awarded in the opening match against Tipperary and again this weekend he was unhappy with a free count that broke nearly two to one against his side.
“It does appear that the game has changed in the last four months whilst we’ve all been at home and somebody has decided to take the tackle out of the game. I’d love to know who they were and when that was decided.

Tackle in one thing and is still there, but throwing your arms around an opponent should always have been a free and if they start refereeing that properly it'll be a positive for the game.

Play on the edge, they need to rein in some of their tackles and they'll be fine
Like the great Kilkenny team before them they also played on the edge and heck beyond it as well but the Kilkenny lads had a better media game pushing the manly game and let it flow.
If Tommy Walsh is breaking the hurl off a Wexford lads leg whose just after getting the run on him, it's a red even if it is Tommy Walsh. Ger Hegarty wallops Joe Canning in the back, nowhere near hooking or block him, it's a red.

I'm not anti Limerick, far from it as I'm glad they've arrived on the scene in a big way, but last weekend one of the Tipp midfielders went on a run and was being fairly harried by three Limerick lads only for one to chop down over the lads shoulder, nowhere near the ball. He'd no need to do it as the Tipp lad had run out of road.

I'd expect Kiely and Kinnerk to fine tune their tackling technique as they're not stupid men..

Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2021, 01:06:39 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/evan-niland-the-star-as-galway-end-limerick-s-unbeaten-run-1.4566848

That Niland was given so many chances to do damage incensed Limerick manager John Kiely, who had protested the number of frees awarded in the opening match against Tipperary and again this weekend he was unhappy with a free count that broke nearly two to one against his side.
“It does appear that the game has changed in the last four months whilst we’ve all been at home and somebody has decided to take the tackle out of the game. I’d love to know who they were and when that was decided.

Tackle in one thing and is still there, but throwing your arms around an opponent should always have been a free and if they start refereeing that properly it'll be a positive for the game.

Play on the edge, they need to rein in some of their tackles and they'll be fine
Like the great Kilkenny team before them they also played on the edge and heck beyond it as well but the Kilkenny lads had a better media game pushing the manly game and let it flow.
If Tommy Walsh is breaking the hurl off a Wexford lads leg whose just after getting the run on him, it's a red even if it is Tommy Walsh. Ger Hegarty wallops Joe Canning in the back, nowhere near hooking or block him, it's a red.

I'm not anti Limerick, far from it as I'm glad they've arrived on the scene in a big way, but last weekend one of the Tipp midfielders went on a run and was being fairly harried by three Limerick lads only for one to chop down over the lads shoulder, nowhere near the ball. He'd no need to do it as the Tipp lad had run out of road.

I'd expect Kiely and Kinnerk to fine tune their tackling technique as they're not stupid men..
At the highest level freetaking is an art and will punish regular fouling
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 17, 2021, 01:15:16 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/evan-niland-the-star-as-galway-end-limerick-s-unbeaten-run-1.4566848

That Niland was given so many chances to do damage incensed Limerick manager John Kiely, who had protested the number of frees awarded in the opening match against Tipperary and again this weekend he was unhappy with a free count that broke nearly two to one against his side.
“It does appear that the game has changed in the last four months whilst we’ve all been at home and somebody has decided to take the tackle out of the game. I’d love to know who they were and when that was decided.

Tackle in one thing and is still there, but throwing your arms around an opponent should always have been a free and if they start refereeing that properly it'll be a positive for the game.

Play on the edge, they need to rein in some of their tackles and they'll be fine
Like the great Kilkenny team before them they also played on the edge and heck beyond it as well but the Kilkenny lads had a better media game pushing the manly game and let it flow.
If Tommy Walsh is breaking the hurl off a Wexford lads leg whose just after getting the run on him, it's a red even if it is Tommy Walsh. Ger Hegarty wallops Joe Canning in the back, nowhere near hooking or block him, it's a red.

I'm not anti Limerick, far from it as I'm glad they've arrived on the scene in a big way, but last weekend one of the Tipp midfielders went on a run and was being fairly harried by three Limerick lads only for one to chop down over the lads shoulder, nowhere near the ball. He'd no need to do it as the Tipp lad had run out of road.

I'd expect Kiely and Kinnerk to fine tune their tackling technique as they're not stupid men..
At the highest level freetaking is an art and will punish regular fouling

It is and it may well be Limericks downfall if they don't address it.

It's not always the referees fault that the game is stop start.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Its never the referee's fault  ;D
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: didlyi on May 17, 2021, 04:17:13 PM
No its not being checked. Why not?

Who should check it?

Sure they can't even check that faceguards haven't been tampered with, bars removed etc etc and that's a health and safety issue!

Lost count of the number of lads on TV over the weekend with illegal face guards.

Point taken but if you can tamper with the dimensions of a made hurl then fair play to you. As I said if theres a will....
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 17, 2021, 09:52:58 PM
No its not being checked. Why not?

Who should check it?

Sure they can't even check that faceguards haven't been tampered with, bars removed etc etc and that's a health and safety issue!

Lost count of the number of lads on TV over the weekend with illegal face guards.

Point taken but if you can tamper with the dimensions of a made hurl then fair play to you. As I said if theres a will....

to a point. Most lads will have done a bit of experimenting with hurls of some sort but the big bas hurls the O'Connors of Cork used to make haven't really taken off to any great extent. Some lads have them but a lot have their traditional style hurls, maybe a bit shorter to get a shot off in a crowd but nothing untoward.
The sliotars, though really need changed.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: didlyi on May 17, 2021, 11:49:17 PM
Changing the sliothars is a big move and I dont see the it happening. It will impact players at all grades and not all hurlers can drive balls over the bar from 30 metres not to talk of 80. We could have less goals and I would fear that a defensive game like football could result if too much weight was added to the ball. Apply the existing rules first!
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 24, 2021, 08:58:06 AM
Changing the sliothars is a big move and I dont see the it happening. It will impact players at all grades and not all hurlers can drive balls over the bar from 30 metres not to talk of 80. We could have less goals and I would fear that a defensive game like football could result if too much weight was added to the ball. Apply the existing rules first!

Losing count of the number of players putting over "amazing" points ( (c) Marty Morrisey)  whilst standing on their own 45m line. striking the ball 90 to 100 metres, that's not just strength and conditioning..

But does deadening the ball play into the hands of sweepers and funnelling back!!

Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2021, 10:13:08 AM
Changing the sliothars is a big move and I dont see the it happening. It will impact players at all grades and not all hurlers can drive balls over the bar from 30 metres not to talk of 80. We could have less goals and I would fear that a defensive game like football could result if too much weight was added to the ball. Apply the existing rules first!

Losing count of the number of players putting over "amazing" points ( (c) Marty Morrisey)  whilst standing on their own 45m line. striking the ball 90 to 100 metres, that's not just strength and conditioning..

But does deadening the ball play into the hands of sweepers and funnelling back!!

What's the chances of having an 'old' silothar and a new one to compare? I just don't know if there is any difference to a siltothar from the mid 80's to now.

The players are just stronger and more accurate and better conditioned than we were back then, changing the size of the scoring zone would be the only real difference, deadening the ball will reduce it be what? 20 meters in flight?
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on May 24, 2021, 10:37:42 AM
Changing the sliothars is a big move and I dont see the it happening. It will impact players at all grades and not all hurlers can drive balls over the bar from 30 metres not to talk of 80. We could have less goals and I would fear that a defensive game like football could result if too much weight was added to the ball. Apply the existing rules first!

Losing count of the number of players putting over "amazing" points ( (c) Marty Morrisey)  whilst standing on their own 45m line. striking the ball 90 to 100 metres, that's not just strength and conditioning..

But does deadening the ball play into the hands of sweepers and funnelling back!!

What's the chances of having an 'old' silothar and a new one to compare? I just don't know if there is any difference to a siltothar from the mid 80's to now.

The players are just stronger and more accurate and better conditioned than we were back then, changing the size of the scoring zone would be the only real difference, deadening the ball will reduce it be what? 20 meters in flight?

I've some old sliothars with the proper leather and bigger rims, not the cork core ones either and I bet most would struggle with 80 metres. They'd break most modern hurls as well. The difference is like night and day.
Next time you're down I'll give you one.  ;D
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2021, 10:43:41 AM
Changing the sliothars is a big move and I dont see the it happening. It will impact players at all grades and not all hurlers can drive balls over the bar from 30 metres not to talk of 80. We could have less goals and I would fear that a defensive game like football could result if too much weight was added to the ball. Apply the existing rules first!

Losing count of the number of players putting over "amazing" points ( (c) Marty Morrisey)  whilst standing on their own 45m line. striking the ball 90 to 100 metres, that's not just strength and conditioning..

But does deadening the ball play into the hands of sweepers and funnelling back!!

What's the chances of having an 'old' silothar and a new one to compare? I just don't know if there is any difference to a siltothar from the mid 80's to now.

The players are just stronger and more accurate and better conditioned than we were back then, changing the size of the scoring zone would be the only real difference, deadening the ball will reduce it be what? 20 meters in flight?

I've some old sliothars with the proper leather and bigger rims, not the cork core ones either and I bet most would struggle with 80 metres. They'd break most modern hurls as well. The difference is like night and day.
Next time you're down I'll give you one.  ;D

Flattered but I don't 'swing' that way  ;D

Yeah they may be heavier and it will make for some cracking dropping balls into the box and the tussles in there will change the positioning of teams and  how they set up, then there will be complaints about that..

People just complain because they are gurning bastards, they game is fine and manly  ;)
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2021, 06:49:23 PM
Galway scored 4 goals versus the  Déise.
#Jaysus
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on June 07, 2021, 09:36:03 AM
Limerick letting Cork know where they're actually at, Kilkenny not pulling up trees but ticking along nicely and Galway motoring well.

I think Tipp, Waterford, Cork are a slight level below but well able to pull out a surprise but the AI will be between Galway (if they don't f up before that) and Limerick..

Kilkenny always have a fighting chance with TJ in the team and Mullen is a good addition but still think the top two can put them away more often than not.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: imtommygunn on June 07, 2021, 09:44:33 AM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2021, 10:22:17 AM
 Galway racking up big scores against the lesser teams (not that Waterford are a lesser team) , Limerick don't go for goals, Cork always trying to engineer a goal, Antrim surprising some teams, Davy hasn't changed.

Waterford, just unsure of what their game plan is. Cork playing mind games with selections. Limerick defending has improved also. Dublin were not all that against Clare Tony Kelly. Antrim secured div1 for next year. Kilkenny still developing players but will rely on the older ones come championship, not sure they'll beat Galway
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: imtommygunn on June 07, 2021, 04:46:23 PM
They really shouldn't have been beat by KK last year either though.

On another note Cody looking very gaunt in his interviews. He was never weighty but looks to have lost a load.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Lar Naparka on June 07, 2021, 09:17:17 PM
They really shouldn't have been beat by KK last year either though.

On another note Cody looking very gaunt in his interviews. He was never weighty but looks to have lost a load.
Well, he is over 70 now and he was never one to carry excess weight but, all the same, he has aged a lot lately.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: From the Bunker on June 08, 2021, 08:07:53 AM
They really shouldn't have been beat by KK last year either though.

On another note Cody looking very gaunt in his interviews. He was never weighty but looks to have lost a load.
Well, he is over 70 now and he was never one to carry excess weight but, all the same, he has aged a lot lately.

He's 67 in a few weeks! Still, it's a young mans game. It takes loads of energy and mental resolve. It's also about the Management team you have around you.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Lar Naparka on June 08, 2021, 09:22:25 AM
They really shouldn't have been beat by KK last year either though.

On another note Cody looking very gaunt in his interviews. He was never weighty but looks to have lost a load.
Well, he is over 70 now and he was never one to carry excess weight but, all the same, he has aged a lot lately.


He's 67 in a few weeks! Still, it's a young mans game. It takes loads of energy and mental resolve. It's also about the Management team you have around you.
He was three years behind me in St
 Pats Drumcondra and I am 72.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Lar Naparka on June 08, 2021, 10:35:50 AM
They really shouldn't have been beat by KK last year either though.

On another note Cody looking very gaunt in his interviews. He was never weighty but looks to have lost a load.
Well, he is over 70 now and he was never one to carry excess weight but, all the same, he has aged a lot lately.

He's 67 in a few weis eks! Still, it's a young mans game. It takes loads of energy and mental resolve. It's also about the Management team you have around you.
I guess I was wrong. I think I am getting senile. He  was 5 years behind me.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: imtommygunn on June 08, 2021, 12:30:08 PM
Any which way he doesn't look as healthy as he used to.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: clonadmad on June 08, 2021, 01:06:59 PM
Im surprised ye nordies wouldnt know his DOB,given the special place the date holds in all yere hearts

12/7/54

Hes currently 66.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on June 08, 2021, 02:06:15 PM
Im surprised ye nordies wouldnt know his DOB,given the special place the date holds in all yere hearts

12/7/54

Hes currently 66.

Surprised he wasn't called Billy down on Noreside after being born on the glorious 12th..
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: KickItInAndStartClapping on June 08, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Im surprised ye nordies wouldnt know his DOB,given the special place the date holds in all yere hearts

12/7/54

Hes currently 66.

 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2021, 02:18:22 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: KickItInAndStartClapping on June 08, 2021, 02:24:39 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days

In the past 10 years, Kilkenny won back to backs in 2011 and 2012 as well as 2014 and 2015. Only a fluke Clare win in 2013 prevented the mighty cats from doing the coveted 5 in a row.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2021, 03:01:43 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days

In the past 10 years, Kilkenny won back to backs in 2011 and 2012 as well as 2014 and 2015. Only a fluke Clare win in 2013 prevented the mighty cats from doing the coveted 5 in a row.

Did Tipp not stop the drive for 5?
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: KickItInAndStartClapping on June 08, 2021, 03:20:20 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days

In the past 10 years, Kilkenny won back to backs in 2011 and 2012 as well as 2014 and 2015. Only a fluke Clare win in 2013 prevented the mighty cats from doing the coveted 5 in a row.

Did Tipp not stop the drive for 5?

That was in 2010. Kilkenny had won it the previous 4 years.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on June 08, 2021, 03:28:16 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days

In the past 10 years, Kilkenny won back to backs in 2011 and 2012 as well as 2014 and 2015. Only a fluke Clare win in 2013 prevented the mighty cats from doing the coveted 5 in a row.

Not sure of your logic but going by that Clare prevented Kilkenny from winning 7 in a row but never actually beat Kilkenny...

Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: KickItInAndStartClapping on June 08, 2021, 03:32:12 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days

In the past 10 years, Kilkenny won back to backs in 2011 and 2012 as well as 2014 and 2015. Only a fluke Clare win in 2013 prevented the mighty cats from doing the coveted 5 in a row.

Not sure of your logic but going by that Clare prevented Kilkenny from winning 7 in a row but never actually beat Kilkenny...

Missing the point. What people seem to forget to do these days is look at the previous messages. I'm saying it's possible to do two in a row.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on June 08, 2021, 04:20:46 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days

In the past 10 years, Kilkenny won back to backs in 2011 and 2012 as well as 2014 and 2015. Only a fluke Clare win in 2013 prevented the mighty cats from doing the coveted 5 in a row.

Not sure of your logic but going by that Clare prevented Kilkenny from winning 7 in a row but never actually beat Kilkenny...

Missing the point. What people seem to forget to do these days is look at the previous messages. I'm saying it's possible to do two in a row.

Back then there was a backdoor but not the round robin system of the last few years pre Covid. 

Limerick may do a back to back this year due to the shortened championship but it'll get harder to do it again if the round robin gets re-introduced in 2022.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: KickItInAndStartClapping on June 08, 2021, 04:23:37 PM
That would be my take on it. Galway, for me, are probably the only team who could beat Limerick but they could get beat by others too.

Cork hadn't Horgan so there was a bit of shadow boxing there but still they are probably a bit away from Limerick levels.

KK probably a bit above the teams in 1B so haven't been pushed yet.
I don't know if Limerick can do back to  back. It's very difficult these days

In the past 10 years, Kilkenny won back to backs in 2011 and 2012 as well as 2014 and 2015. Only a fluke Clare win in 2013 prevented the mighty cats from doing the coveted 5 in a row.

Not sure of your logic but going by that Clare prevented Kilkenny from winning 7 in a row but never actually beat Kilkenny...

Missing the point. What people seem to forget to do these days is look at the previous messages. I'm saying it's possible to do two in a row.

Back then there was a backdoor but not the round robin system of the last few years pre Covid. 

Limerick may do a back to back this year due to the shortened championship but it'll get harder to do it again if the round robin gets re-introduced in 2022.

Limerick have a team for the ages and would win regardless. Do you think otherwise?
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on June 08, 2021, 04:48:10 PM
I think they're favourites but if they meet a fully fit and fresh Galway I think the result could go either way.

Galway made a balls of losing the Leinster final last year and ended up playing for three weeks on the bounce going into the Limerick semi-final, tiredness and injuries took their toll.

IMO obviously.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2021, 05:15:41 PM


Seán Moran: Enforcing equipment rules a good starting point in hurling blitzkrieg
The width of the bas has continued to grow as scoring rates go through the roof
 

 
 
There we were in Galway last Sunday after the final whistle, shaken by the torrential shooting, which threw up a scoring attempt roughly every 50 seconds, and examining bits of paper with our hieroglyphics to see what we’d managed to record.
In response to one of the conventional, post-match topics of conversation, Micheál Clifford from the Daily Mail was first to offer an opinion. “My man of the match,” he declared, “was the fella operating the scoreboard.”
Not surprisingly, the Galway and Waterford managers were less concerned by the overall scoring rate than their own concession rate. But from a spectator’s perspective, there may be such a thing as too much scoring and by extension too few contests, whether for actual possession or between defender and attacker.
Already scoring in this season’s league is well outstripping last season in both of the Division 1 groups. After four series of fixtures among all but one of the same counties, the aggregate scoring is 67-1069 to 57-845, a difference of nearly half a goal and more than nine points per match.
The points average to date is 44.5, which maybe appears reasonable, around 0-22 apiece, but to give it context, there have been five All-Ireland finals in history that have exceeded 44.5 points in total and four were within the past seven years.
Prior to 2014, there was only one All-Ireland final that featured an aggregate of 0-45 or more. There is little a defence can do when a player finds himself some space within 80 or 90 metres of the posts.
There are other factors. Last season’s league was played in the usual hideous January to March window and the weather would have been less sympathetic to scoring than this year’s competition, particularly in the last couple of weeks, which has seen full-on championship weather but without the peak fitness.
None of this is earth shattering disclosure. It’s been in development over the past decade.
 
Speaking at the launch of his broadcaster’s championship coverage, Sky analyst James O’Connor made some interesting comments on scoring trends.
“Long term that is something that has to be a concern given the sweet spot on the hurley is getting better. As athletes, players are incredibly well-conditioned now. All of these factor into that.”
A few years ago, a prominent intercounty player was asked in a convivial setting had he ever had anyone measure the bas on his hurley. He hadn’t and no surprise there because the GAA has apparently abdicated responsibility for the regulation of equipment.
In part 2 of the Official Guide, rule 4.5 states: “The bas of the hurley at its widest shall not be more than 13 centimetres”.
With an implicit policy of not enforcing this, the GAA has fed into the current situation. As O’Connor said, the sweet spot (optimum for striking) is now so much larger. One senior GAA official estimates that the width of the bas in some cases is now clocking in at around 18cm – nearly 40 per cent in excess of what’s allowed.
That’s a lot of additional – and irregular – firepower.
The length of a stick has never been regulated, for obvious reasons, but the old rule of thumb was that it should come up to more or less a player’s hip, an average of around 36 or 37 inches (91 to 94cm). It is currently estimated that the new preference for shorter sticks has reduced to as little as 32 or 33 inches (81 to 84cm). That’s a drop of 10 centimetres.
It’s almost as if the stick has evolved to reflect what is effectively the extinction of both ground hurling and overhead striking.

If the regulations on the dimensions of a hurley are routinely overlooked, so too the restrictions on the hand pass. There is almost a gasp from the crowd – or whoever’s in attendance – when a hand pass is whistled as a throw. The use of the holding hand even with a ‘definite striking action’ to pass the ball has led to irregularities largely being overlooked.
Former Tipperary All-Ireland winning full back Conor O’Donovan has proposed that a hand pass should have to be struck with the other hand, ie the one not holding the ball, which would make the execution a lot easier to adjudicate.
There has been a lot of focus on composition of the sliotar, to make it heavier and more difficult to strike long distances. This comes with a caveat from the experience of baseball, which this year decided to alter its ball to make home runs harder to hit and keep the ball in play a bit more.
This has come with unintended consequences, which have triggered much debate in the US as to whether it’s having the desired effect and whether it’s over-balanced the game in favour of pitchers.
The hardy perennial of increasing the value of a goal would be another possibility. Goals used to be the basic scoring currency, not surprisingly given the difficulty of striking the old ball with its weight and absorbability over long distances.
No team has scored six goals in an All-Ireland for the past 50 years. It happened eight times in the previous half century to 1921 and nine times in the preceding 25 years back to 1896 which was when the goal was assigned its current value of three points.
Over the same period, rugby has made several changes to its scoring system to encourage play in various directions. Given the facility with which points are now struck, is it proportionate that goals are still worth just three times as much – as opposed to say, five?
No one, let alone the conservative hurling constituency, wants there to be a constant conveyor belt of rule changes and it’s likely the goal will retain its value for a while, whatever the evidence.
There are valid concerns about excessive scoring rates and allowing that the causes are multi-factorial why not start by enforcing the rules that are already there?
smoran@irishtimes.com

Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2021, 08:43:30 PM
https://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/martin-fogarty-systematic-fouling-is-ruining-hurling/?fbclid=IwAR1CDYXBmVG1BKqgDdEa5aksRzGwqs0n2aJZjQL93DkVYxi4xuKuRUHwnMY
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: didlyi on June 10, 2021, 09:57:10 PM
Two very good articles there lads. The genie is out of the bottle now and I hope somethong will be done soon to tweak things. As Sean Moran says a good start would be applying the rules that exist first.
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2021, 01:56:32 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0614/1228053-canning-stop-criticising-hurling-and-enjoy-the-quality/
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on June 16, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0614/1228053-canning-stop-criticising-hurling-and-enjoy-the-quality/

Much being made of the rocks score back in 2005 but that was very much the exception and the reason it's still clear in our minds but now every team has four or five lads capable of landing points from their own 45 and it isn't all S&C.

There's something to be said about the rims alright as I had a look at some old balls and the rims are far prouder on them than the current balls meaning more aerodynamic lag.

I don't mind high scoring games in itself, its' the free takers trudging down the park into their own half that slows everything down and probably makes the games seem more stop start.

Referees are more inclined to let a lot of the "half" fouls go come championship so it'll be interesting how that goes in the first set of games in Munster and Leinster.

Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0614/1228053-canning-stop-criticising-hurling-and-enjoy-the-quality/

Much being made of the rocks score back in 2005 but that was very much the exception and the reason it's still clear in our minds but now every team has four or five lads capable of landing points from their own 45 and it isn't all S&C.

There's something to be said about the rims alright as I had a look at some old balls and the rims are far prouder on them than the current balls meaning more aerodynamic lag.

I don't mind high scoring games in itself, its' the free takers trudging down the park into their own half that slows everything down and probably makes the games seem more stop start.

Referees are more inclined to let a lot of the "half" fouls go come championship so it'll be interesting how that goes in the first set of games in Munster and Leinster.

The ref needs to judge it, half fouls should only be brought back if there’s no advantage, I play advantage out from half back line, fouls in full back line, just call them straight, there’s no advantage there.

I’m bored of listening to people complaining about the free count by the same token the pulling back the hand, jerseys being pulled, trying to slap the ball out of hand, wrapping hands around player, whoever is coaching that needs to look at what they are doing! It’s hard enough without that crap fouling.

Funny you mentioned the difference of ref’ing during the league and come championship. It’s so true
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: seafoid on June 17, 2021, 06:41:26 AM
What is interesting now is that with the possible exception of Tipp  it isn't the old firm teams that are driving the changes in the game.
 
Title: Re: Hurling championship 2021
Post by: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 09:19:40 AM
What is interesting now is that with the possible exception of Tipp  it isn't the old firm teams that are driving the changes in the game.

If Limerick keep racking up AI's then expect a "change" somewhere in the game.

A bit like "over physical" Clare in the mid 90's. Every committee room decision seemed to go against them.