O’Byrne Cup 2023

[Smellyball]

Unlucky tonight, we're well in it until the last couple of minutes.

[Giovanni]

I wasn't at it but I understood we were 15 or 16 points down at half time?

[SCFC]

That was very sobering last night. Would remind you of the first game last year down in Wexford. Both games were over at half time. Both games had a load of reasonably decent but average enough club players making their debuts. At the end of the day, when we play Sligo in the first league game at the end of the month, we are likely to be looking at Trevor Collins, Eoin Lowry, Paddy O'Sullivan, Paul Kingston, Mark Barry, James Finn, Evan O'Carroll and Brian Byrne all starting. Possibly Piggott and Lillis too.

Goalkeeper position is a concern too. 3 of the last 4 starting senior goalies for Laois are not avavilable (Brody, Bolger and Byron) and the fourth, Corbett, is playing outfield.

[Spiritof86]

Glorified challenge match against a Longford side who had by all accounts a more established starting 15 . Our fitness and S&C is so far behind other counties and without Brody in goals we will concede goals regularly. But we already know all this ..  Navan could be ugly Saturday.

[Butch Cassidy]

How does Sheehan have them setup? Regardless of personnel, to concede that much in football at that level is alarming. Surely after the Wicklow game last year there would be some sort of defensive structure in place.

[BallyroanAbu]

He isn't very good, I know we're average but so are Longford.  Doesn't matter he will prob stick out his best team on Sat.  We win, crisis over till Sligo match.  I explained this years ago, Club Football will now take precedent in Laois so as we don't have to acknowledge how bad we are.  25 years ago we were on the edge of a golden age, 1 Leinster in hindsight was a poor return.   I like a lot of lads on the County Board personally but questions have to be asked.

[Chrimtain]

Does anyone believe that Billy Sheehan has any clue about what he is doing or what he is attempting to achieve? What happened against Wexford last year should not have been allowed to happen again this year.

[Laoiseabu]

Getting rid of Sheehan or keeping Sheehan won't make much of a difference at all in the long term . Our problems go FAR beyond just Billy Sheehan. We are a mess from top to bottom . Our minor footballers last year for example suffered 20 point defeats to both Offaly and Dublin in the championship.
We were a mess before Sheehan arrived and we are still a mess with him . We need a complete rebuild from underage grassroots the whole way up to senior intercounty . You can't solve the problems at senior intercounty without solving the problems at schools , club and underage level too. What went on in Port last night is only the tip of the iceberg, it's the end product of years of taking our eye off the ball . We have sleepwalked into this mess
The next manager that comes in after Sheehan will have the very same problems . The frightening part is I'm not sure whether the expertise nor the appetite is their in Laois to overhaul our structures and change this mess . I honestly think we are going to just limp on the way we are . Truth be told whether we come out of division 4 or not this year it won't make a whole lot of difference in the long run . When we start playing teams in the higher divisions again we are going to be badly shown up again and then back to square one  .
Id like to see all our resources poured into the underage , giving them the best coaching , the best S and C and the professionalism that they would recieve in counties like Dublin for example . We have to put in the hard yards and prepare these young players for senior intercounty football down the line . Simply sitting back and hoping that a " Golden bunch " will come along simply won't work anymore in this age of pace , power and S and C . You won't break even with the likes of Dublin or Kildare for example by sitting Back and hoping we will "magically " improve .  When we get a conveyor belt of good underage teams coming again we will see the knock on affect at senior in maybe 5/6 years .
I have never doubted the ability in Laois but one thing we don't have is the pace and power and size to match any of the semi decent intercounty teams . That thank god can all be worked on put it is going to take a LOT of hard work and patience . I've heard a lot of people say that we are in "transition " . Where exactly are we transitioning to ? As it stands we will be transitioning between division 3 and 4 for the next 10 years unless we roll up the sleeves and put in the hard yards at underage .
Look at Port vs Kilmacud for example . Some very good "footballers"  on that Port team but they simply couldn't deal with the power and pace and size that kilmacud possessed from years of hard work on the S and C side of things . Them Port players have never been exposed to that level of attention to their S and C from a young age like the kilmacud lads . Give them Port lads the same attention to training from a young age as the kilmacud lads and Port would EASILY break even with Kilmacud.
Us people in Laois want the end result of a rebuild without having to go through the actual rebuild process itself . It's going to take a lot of work . I'm not sure we have the expertise and appetite to do it but if we want to become competitive again we will have to do it . LaoisAbu

[Gmac]

Does anyone believe that Billy Sheehan has any clue about what he is doing or what he is attempting to achieve? What happened against Wexford last year should not have been allowed to happen again this year.

wicklow ? Spoke to county secretary last July and he said he was very confident he would turn it around , make of that what you want .

[Giovanni]

Getting rid of Sheehan or keeping Sheehan won't make much of a difference at all in the long term . Our problems go FAR beyond just Billy Sheehan. We are a mess from top to bottom . Our minor footballers last year for example suffered 20 point defeats to both Offaly and Dublin in the championship.
We were a mess before Sheehan arrived and we are still a mess with him . We need a complete rebuild from underage grassroots the whole way up to senior intercounty . You can't solve the problems at senior intercounty without solving the problems at schools , club and underage level too. What went on in Port last night is only the tip of the iceberg, it's the end product of years of taking our eye off the ball . We have sleepwalked into this mess
The next manager that comes in after Sheehan will have the very same problems . The frightening part is I'm not sure whether the expertise nor the appetite is their in Laois to overhaul our structures and change this mess . I honestly think we are going to just limp on the way we are . Truth be told whether we come out of division 4 or not this year it won't make a whole lot of difference in the long run . When we start playing teams in the higher divisions again we are going to be badly shown up again and then back to square one  .
Id like to see all our resources poured into the underage , giving them the best coaching , the best S and C and the professionalism that they would recieve in counties like Dublin for example . We have to put in the hard yards and prepare these young players for senior intercounty football down the line . Simply sitting back and hoping that a " Golden bunch " will come along simply won't work anymore in this age of pace , power and S and C . You won't break even with the likes of Dublin or Kildare for example by sitting Back and hoping we will "magically " improve .  When we get a conveyor belt of good underage teams coming again we will see the knock on affect at senior in maybe 5/6 years .
I have never doubted the ability in Laois but one thing we don't have the is pace and power and size to match any of the semi decent intercounty teams . That thank god can all be worked on put it is going to take a LOT of hard work and patience . I've heard a lot of people say that we are in "transition " . Where exactly are we transitioning to ? As it stands we will be transitioning between division 3 and 4 for the next 10 years unless we roll up the sleeves and put in the hard yards at underage .
Look at Port vs Kilmacud for example . Some very good "footballers"  on that Port team but they simply couldn't deal with the power and pace and size that kilmacud possessed from years of hard work on the S and C side of things . Them Port players have never been exposed to that level of attention to their S and C from a young age like the kilmacud lads . Give them Port lads the same attention to training from a young age as the kilmacud lads and Port would EASILY break even with Kilmacud.
Us people in Laois want the end result of a rebuild without having to go through the actual rebuild process itself . It's going to take a lot of work . I'm not sure we have the expertise and appetite to do it but if we want to become competitive again we will have to do it . LaoisAbu

Good post. These really are all the important points.

Having said that, a decent manager should be able to ensure a better performance than that, no matter the makeup of the team. It's only o Byrne Cup and the result doesn't matter but you really need  to see some evidence of a way doing things that can actually work. This is no good for anyone.

[Sideline12]

Getting rid of Sheehan or keeping Sheehan won't make much of a difference at all in the long term . Our problems go FAR beyond just Billy Sheehan. We are a mess from top to bottom . Our minor footballers last year for example suffered 20 point defeats to both Offaly and Dublin in the championship.
We were a mess before Sheehan arrived and we are still a mess with him . We need a complete rebuild from underage grassroots the whole way up to senior intercounty . You can't solve the problems at senior intercounty without solving the problems at schools , club and underage level too. What went on in Port last night is only the tip of the iceberg, it's the end product of years of taking our eye off the ball . We have sleepwalked into this mess
The next manager that comes in after Sheehan will have the very same problems . The frightening part is I'm not sure whether the expertise nor the appetite is their in Laois to overhaul our structures and change this mess . I honestly think we are going to just limp on the way we are . Truth be told whether we come out of division 4 or not this year it won't make a whole lot of difference in the long run . When we start playing teams in the higher divisions again we are going to be badly shown up again and then back to square one  .
Id like to see all our resources poured into the underage , giving them the best coaching , the best S and C and the professionalism that they would recieve in counties like Dublin for example . We have to put in the hard yards and prepare these young players for senior intercounty football down the line . Simply sitting back and hoping that a " Golden bunch " will come along simply won't work anymore in this age of pace , power and S and C . You won't break even with the likes of Dublin or Kildare for example by sitting Back and hoping we will "magically " improve .  When we get a conveyor belt of good underage teams coming again we will see the knock on affect at senior in maybe 5/6 years .
I have never doubted the ability in Laois but one thing we don't have the is pace and power and size to match any of the semi decent intercounty teams . That thank god can all be worked on put it is going to take a LOT of hard work and patience . I've heard a lot of people say that we are in "transition " . Where exactly are we transitioning to ? As it stands we will be transitioning between division 3 and 4 for the next 10 years unless we roll up the sleeves and put in the hard yards at underage .
Look at Port vs Kilmacud for example . Some very good "footballers"  on that Port team but they simply couldn't deal with the power and pace and size that kilmacud possessed from years of hard work on the S and C side of things . Them Port players have never been exposed to that level of attention to their S and C from a young age like the kilmacud lads . Give them Port lads the same attention to training from a young age as the kilmacud lads and Port would EASILY break even with Kilmacud.
Us people in Laois want the end result of a rebuild without having to go through the actual rebuild process itself . It's going to take a lot of work . I'm not sure we have the expertise and appetite to do it but if we want to become competitive again we will have to do it . LaoisAbu

great post all that the truth, just hope you won't be repeating the same post in another few years.

[Spiritof86]

Getting rid of Sheehan or keeping Sheehan won't make much of a difference at all in the long term . Our problems go FAR beyond just Billy Sheehan. We are a mess from top to bottom . Our minor footballers last year for example suffered 20 point defeats to both Offaly and Dublin in the championship.
We were a mess before Sheehan arrived and we are still a mess with him . We need a complete rebuild from underage grassroots the whole way up to senior intercounty . You can't solve the problems at senior intercounty without solving the problems at schools , club and underage level too. What went on in Port last night is only the tip of the iceberg, it's the end product of years of taking our eye off the ball . We have sleepwalked into this mess
The next manager that comes in after Sheehan will have the very same problems . The frightening part is I'm not sure whether the expertise nor the appetite is their in Laois to overhaul our structures and change this mess . I honestly think we are going to just limp on the way we are . Truth be told whether we come out of division 4 or not this year it won't make a whole lot of difference in the long run . When we start playing teams in the higher divisions again we are going to be badly shown up again and then back to square one  .
Id like to see all our resources poured into the underage , giving them the best coaching , the best S and C and the professionalism that they would recieve in counties like Dublin for example . We have to put in the hard yards and prepare these young players for senior intercounty football down the line . Simply sitting back and hoping that a " Golden bunch " will come along simply won't work anymore in this age of pace , power and S and C . You won't break even with the likes of Dublin or Kildare for example by sitting Back and hoping we will "magically " improve .  When we get a conveyor belt of good underage teams coming again we will see the knock on affect at senior in maybe 5/6 years .
I have never doubted the ability in Laois but one thing we don't have is the pace and power and size to match any of the semi decent intercounty teams . That thank god can all be worked on put it is going to take a LOT of hard work and patience . I've heard a lot of people say that we are in "transition " . Where exactly are we transitioning to ? As it stands we will be transitioning between division 3 and 4 for the next 10 years unless we roll up the sleeves and put in the hard yards at underage .
Look at Port vs Kilmacud for example . Some very good "footballers"  on that Port team but they simply couldn't deal with the power and pace and size that kilmacud possessed from years of hard work on the S and C side of things . Them Port players have never been exposed to that level of attention to their S and C from a young age like the kilmacud lads . Give them Port lads the same attention to training from a young age as the kilmacud lads and Port would EASILY break even with Kilmacud.
Us people in Laois want the end result of a rebuild without having to go through the actual rebuild process itself . It's going to take a lot of work . I'm not sure we have the expertise and appetite to do it but if we want to become competitive again we will have to do it . LaoisAbu

Spot on with the analysis

[Oblivious]

Some of the observations I would agree with Laoisabu but the same comments regarding underage structures and s&c have now been on this forum for a number of years without much enthusiasm to alter the path but I always think its unfair to discuss underage football and then bringing in Dublin or in your post Dublin and Offaly. All football comes done to money and numbers, its irrelevant that the minors lost to Dublin and Offay. They beat Louth, Carlow and Westmeath. The also lost to Wexford but were down injuries. Laois rely upon a golden crop at any stage to compete. In 2021 Laois minors were well beaten by a much stronger Louth Team , massive strength and it was men against boys. This year the minors beat Louth, surely Louth had also gone through the same rigorous S&C programme .

The difference is that was a good crop for Louth in 2021 and not so good in 2022. Offaly this year at Minor and Hurling and football was their golden crop. Some of the same Laois  lads who played minor football also played minor hurling and the training and S&C assisted them or maybe it was a good crop. Sligo will be strong and at Minor level over the last few years they have won Connaught and competed with Mayo and Galway, they just cant bring it into the senior squad.

Kilmacud Crokes probably within their club have about the same number of people playing as all the Laois clubs combined. They have excellent facilities at their own grounds unlike all other Laois senior clubs and the underage S&C training also takes place both within the clubs and at secondary school level, as a number of the clubs would have pupils who attend fee paying schools that play rugby, so core strength and S&C goes in tandem. Kids can also either walk or jump on a bus to a range of sports facilities and grounds without relying upon daddy or mammy taxi.       

Kids and teenagers and adults want success, they want to feel ,they can achieve it and they want to experience it. Can you see that being the case currently. Its all historical success and that's not attractive to the player or punter   

Underage at school levels in Laois  is usually based on an all inclusive participation as opposed to focusing on  core strength and stability and also most schools in Laois would be mixed schools at primary level due to numbers as opposed to larger urban areas in Dublin which may lead to more sports driven focused PE.

Anyway the post is getting off the point, the O'Byrne Cup is a trial period to see who can cut the mustard and the team will change over the coming weeks and they will get beaten by the rest of Leinster but if there wasn't new players coming in , there would be several posts bemoaning the management sticking with tried and tired players.

                   

[SCFC]

if there wasn't new players coming in , there would be several posts bemoaning the management sticking with tried and tired players.

The O'Byrne Cup has always been used to look at new players.
I'm just a bit concerned that there are lads in on the panel who aren't as good as others out there who aren't involved.
I'm particularly thinking of Davin McEvoy and Sean Fitzpatrick of Ballyroan Abbey. I'd also like to see Saunders, Tyrrell, a chap from Joseph's whose name is gone on me and the 2 Dunnes, Eoin and Niall off the under 20 squad a few years back getting a chance. Not to mention 2 or 3 more Port lads.
Maybe they've all been asked and said no but it's a pity to lose them.

[High Fielder]

Most of those have had a go. Even though they undoubtedly had potential, they didn't persevere. Unless they come back wanting it more, why would you chase around after them? We are where we are for a million different reasons. I'm sad to say that there have been far too many lads with so much talent who have f**k all fire in their belly. They're no addition to any team