Kerry v Throne AIQF - Saturday July 1st

[HokeyPokey]

Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.

Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.

Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.

Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?

FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.

Have you a source for this?
I've never seen that reported anywhere.
If it was a dead leg, why was he trying to stretch it out? It was the only thing I ever saw reported.

Anywho, point was broadly that it's overly simplistic to claim that Kerry would have won if Clifford remained on. There's lots of what ifs from the match and both teams had moments where they could have kicked on and closed the game out. Both teams made silly mistakes at times and dominated in different areas. Clifford himself made mistakes which led to two of Tyrone's goals if I remember correctly and his marker scored and was influential going forward. If Tyrone had have lost, they could have pointed to certain key moments too.
And even more generally it's laughable to claim Tyrone's all-Ireland win was anymore lucky than any other teams, especially when you look at the route they had.

Looking forward to the game on Saturday at any rate.

[tonto1888]

It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people

[HokeyPokey]

It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people

It is very tiresome. Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo had been the teams consistently reaching semis and finals. They beat two of those in 2021 along with Monaghan and Donegal who were no push overs either. It was also evident that Dublin were falling back (finally).

Same with the accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp. How can you argue that a team with Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and Owen Mulligan as their full forward line didn't play good football, never mind the other great footballers. I've never seen another player kick the kind of scores O'Neill was consistently putting over the bar for fun in 05. There was some overly defensive at times in the latter Harte years, but they weren't anymore guilty than most teams, with some mitigation for what appeared less gifted panels and there was a great improvement on that front from 2019 onwards, especially 2021.

[Fuzzman]

Big prize for the winner with the easier tie v Derry in the semi, should they get past a very improved Cork team.
It will be interesting to see how both managers approach this game tactically especially around restarts and do the play a running game.

Clifford often wins a lot of marks so you'd imagine Kerry will kick the ball a lot more or will they learn from the traps set for them the last time?

Will Tyrone push up on the Kerry kickouts?
Will Morgan go short if Kerry back off?

[BennyHarp]

Big prize for the winner with the easier tie v Derry in the semi, should they get past a very improved Cork team.
It will be interesting to see how both managers approach this game tactically especially around restarts and do the play a running game.

Clifford often wins a lot of marks so you'd imagine Kerry will kick the ball a lot more or will they learn from the traps set for them the last time?

Will Tyrone push up on the Kerry kickouts?
Will Morgan go short if Kerry back off?

Are the semi final pairings already made?

[RedHand88]

Big prize for the winner with the easier tie v Derry in the semi, should they get past a very improved Cork team.
It will be interesting to see how both managers approach this game tactically especially around restarts and do the play a running game.

Clifford often wins a lot of marks so you'd imagine Kerry will kick the ball a lot more or will they learn from the traps set for them the last time?

Will Tyrone push up on the Kerry kickouts?
Will Morgan go short if Kerry back off?

Are the semi final pairings already made?

No not guaranteed. Depends on who gets through.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people

It is very tiresome. Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo had been the teams consistently reaching semis and finals. They beat two of those in 2021 along with Monaghan and Donegal who were no push overs either. It was also evident that Dublin were falling back (finally).

Same with the accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp. How can you argue that a team with Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and Owen Mulligan as their full forward line didn't play good football, never mind the other great footballers. I've never seen another player kick the kind of scores O'Neill was consistently putting over the bar for fun in 05. There was some overly defensive at times in the latter Harte years, but they weren't anymore guilty than most teams, with some mitigation for what appeared less gifted panels and there was a great improvement on that front from 2019 onwards, especially 2021.

Jesus anyone saying that is clueless. Canavan, O'Neill, Jordan, Dooher, Kavanagh, McGuigan are some of the best players I've ever seen. The 2005 performances alone especially from quarter final on, were unbelievable. Still think that final is up there with the best games I've seen and that's with my team losing.

[rrhf]

It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people

It is very tiresome. Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo had been the teams consistently reaching semis and finals. They beat two of those in 2021 along with Monaghan and Donegal who were no push overs either. It was also evident that Dublin were falling back (finally).

Same with the accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp. How can you argue that a team with Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and Owen Mulligan as their full forward line didn't play good football, never mind the other great footballers. I've never seen another player kick the kind of scores O'Neill was consistently putting over the bar for fun in 05. There was some overly defensive at times in the latter Harte years, but they weren't anymore guilty than most teams, with some mitigation for what appeared less gifted panels and there was a great improvement on that front from 2019 onwards, especially 2021.

Jesus anyone saying that is clueless. Canavan, O'Neill, Jordan, Dooher, Kavanagh, McGuigan are some of the best players I've ever seen. The 2005 performances alone especially from quarter final on, were unbelievable. Still think that final is up there with the best games I've seen and that's with my team losing.

I think Kerry Galway last year was another cracker, Kerry Dublin 2011, the Mayo Dublin games and the Kerry Dublin all Ireland draw.  Tomorrow can be a lot of things and has the potential to take on a walk of its own and be amazing stuff altogether, as a Tyrone man I love playing the best and Kerry are the best. 

[rrhf]

Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.

Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.

Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.

Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?

FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.
[/quote]
Thats an amazing insight into your thought patterns but Im not letting you create that narrative in this case.  Do you believe Morgan shouldnt have went for the ball and let what was a wayward pass be won uncontested by Clifford. Even if that was the case why was he even stretching out cramp on the sideline by the way...

[Fuzzman]

Yeah depends on who gets through but because there are a lot of ties that can't happen again then there are very likely semi final matchings.
If Derry and Tyrone win then they have to meet each other in the semi as neither can meet Armagh or Monaghan so the winners of Dubs v Mayo have to meet them.

If Derry, Kerry and the Dubs win then Derry could meet either Kerry or Dubs but not Armagh/Monaghan and this is why Derry fans will be supporting Tyrone on Saturday. 

If Derry, Kerry and Mayo win then Kerry can't play Mayo again and Derry can't play Armagh/Monaghan so it will have to be Derry v Mayo/Kerry and Mayo/Kerry v Armagh/Monaghan.

So it looks like Derry will probably be meeting Kerry or the Dubs/Mayo in the semi final.
Sorry Cork fans but if ye get through then ye can't meet Kerry or Mayo.

[rrhf]

 8)The support from the Derry ones is greatly appreciated... We would hope to return the compliment some day...

[Wildweasel74]

Don't hold your breath, at this stage it not matter who we play. Does the ulster championship come into to it, previous teams played. Still think you be looking at Kerry, Armagh, Derry, Not sure about Dublin/Mayo. Dublin always beating them outside of 2yrs ago.

[trailer]

Take Clifford out of that Kerry side and they're ordinary. Very ordinary.

[seafoid]

Take Clifford out of that Kerry side and they're ordinary. Very ordinary.

They aren't good enough to add another Sam this year. You need around 25% extra to win the second year.
Tipperary and Tyrone struggle with this all the time as well.

[restorepride]

8)The support from the Derry ones is greatly appreciated... We would hope to return the compliment some day...

Good luck to Tír Eoghain tomorrow. Have the talent to do the job.