Sam Maguire Group 2 - Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath

[rrhf]

I am not buying that at all. Just call it as it is, no need for debate and smokescreen.

[bennydorano]

Forker is a knave, always has been and always will be. Glad he's ours tho.

[An Fhairche Abu]

Is all notion of people just accepting what their county players do on the pitch at face value gone and is it all going to just be partisan bias and see what we want to see at this stage?

Strange I was thinking the exact opposite with a complete refusal from many posters (not all) to accept that there may be an alternative point of view with some even attacking the poster rather than debating the merits. I suppose this is the other side of the same coin and likely just as influenced by county loyalties and bias.

But there is no actual credible evidence for an alternative point of view here, this is the key point, no? Are we into the realm of alternative facts now? This smacks of a defence lawyer trying to place doubt on clear evidence as it's the only course of action remaining that they have in an effort to try and clear a guilty party.

Sean Kelly's antics in the Monaghan league game were raised earlier in this thread as some form of a defection tactic from, or justification for, what we all saw on Sunday, I was disappointed in Kelly's behaviour at the time and said as much, they did him and the Galway jersey no credit at all. There was some minimal contact in that incident and while we could have made excuses on the back of that, in an attempt to maintain some sort of defence for "our man" it flies in the face of the reality of the situation, he was barely touched and dived. It was what we all saw. Just like it was with that tr**p Forker on Sunday.

No one is so naïve as to not expect that judgements are going to be clouded by bias in certain instances, there will of course be times when things aren't exactly clear cut and arguments can be made either way, it would be disingenuous to think otherwise. I don't think this instance is one of those times.

[seafoid]

Forker is a knave, always has been and always will be. Glad he's ours tho.

Is there a Mrs Forker? Would she be the Mother Forker ?

[BrotherMore6592]

Just call it what it is and be honest about your own team, every team has one of those characters minimum, just off the top of my head looking at the top teams

Tyrone - McKernan (one other back could be added)
Armagh - forker (I could name more, specifically a corner back but won't to upset our orchard friends on here)
Mayo - Diarmuid O'Connor loves an elbow
Dublin - John Small (Philly McMahon and Jonny Cooper were before they went)
Monaghan - Ward
Donegal - McMenamin
Kerry - where do I start with their backs

[imtommygunn]

Do Galway have anyone who would be considered a dirty player? They are developing a wee bit more cynicism but no one stands out.

[David McKeown]

Is all notion of people just accepting what their county players do on the pitch at face value gone and is it all going to just be partisan bias and see what we want to see at this stage?

Strange I was thinking the exact opposite with a complete refusal from many posters (not all) to accept that there may be an alternative point of view with some even attacking the poster rather than debating the merits. I suppose this is the other side of the same coin and likely just as influenced by county loyalties and bias.

But there is no actual credible evidence for an alternative point of view here, this is the key point, no? Are we into the realm of alternative facts now? This smacks of a defence lawyer trying to place doubt on clear evidence as it's the only course of action remaining that they have in an effort to try and clear a guilty party.

Sean Kelly's antics in the Monaghan league game were raised earlier in this thread as some form of a defection tactic from, or justification for, what we all saw on Sunday, I was disappointed in Kelly's behaviour at the time and said as much, they did him and the Galway jersey no credit at all. There was some minimal contact in that incident and while we could have made excuses on the back of that, in an attempt to maintain some sort of defence for "our man" it flies in the face of the reality of the situation, he was barely touched and dived. It was what we all saw. Just like it was with that tr**p Forker on Sunday.

No one is so naïve as to not expect that judgements are going to be clouded by bias in certain instances, there will of course be times when things aren't exactly clear cut and arguments can be made either way, it would be disingenuous to think otherwise. I don't think this instance is one of those times.

I honestly don't accept that. To use the two most recent examples. I fully accept that my position is that Forker deliberately punches and then attempts to punch Kelly in the head. But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things. The first video when slowed down seems to show a deliberate punch initially. However when at normal speed I can't be certain that Forker isn't making some kind of bad attempt on the ball. There's also sudden head movement which I would have expected. So there clearly is credible evidence for an alternative point of view.

Likewise whilst I think the second one is an attempted punch, i can see the other argument that I don't see any contact with Kelly's head, nor does Kelly's head move to avoid contact and Kelly doesn't flinch before or complain afterwards. In addition Forker who is very near by, would have been unhindered and likely wouldn't have missed had he been attempting to punch.

So I can totally understand why others may have different opinions on the incident. But the evidence simply isn't as clear as you make it out to be.

It's similar with the O'Neill incident. Yes his knees are undoubtedly on Quinn's head but I've yet to see footage of them being there without Quinn pulling him by the shirt and legs. So whilst I can understand why people were saying it was red I honestly don't agree nor do I think the video evidence is incontrovertible.

No need for alternative facts or anything of the like.

[An Fhairche Abu]

Is all notion of people just accepting what their county players do on the pitch at face value gone and is it all going to just be partisan bias and see what we want to see at this stage?

Strange I was thinking the exact opposite with a complete refusal from many posters (not all) to accept that there may be an alternative point of view with some even attacking the poster rather than debating the merits. I suppose this is the other side of the same coin and likely just as influenced by county loyalties and bias.

But there is no actual credible evidence for an alternative point of view here, this is the key point, no? Are we into the realm of alternative facts now? This smacks of a defence lawyer trying to place doubt on clear evidence as it's the only course of action remaining that they have in an effort to try and clear a guilty party.

Sean Kelly's antics in the Monaghan league game were raised earlier in this thread as some form of a defection tactic from, or justification for, what we all saw on Sunday, I was disappointed in Kelly's behaviour at the time and said as much, they did him and the Galway jersey no credit at all. There was some minimal contact in that incident and while we could have made excuses on the back of that, in an attempt to maintain some sort of defence for "our man" it flies in the face of the reality of the situation, he was barely touched and dived. It was what we all saw. Just like it was with that tr**p Forker on Sunday.

No one is so naïve as to not expect that judgements are going to be clouded by bias in certain instances, there will of course be times when things aren't exactly clear cut and arguments can be made either way, it would be disingenuous to think otherwise. I don't think this instance is one of those times.

I honestly don't accept that. To use the two most recent examples. I fully accept that my position is that Forker deliberately punches and then attempts to punch Kelly in the head. But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things. The first video when slowed down seems to show a deliberate punch initially. However when at normal speed I can't be certain that Forker isn't making some kind of bad attempt on the ball. There's also sudden head movement which I would have expected. So there clearly is credible evidence for an alternative point of view.

Likewise whilst I think the second one is an attempted punch, i can see the other argument that I don't see any contact with Kelly's head, nor does Kelly's head move to avoid contact and Kelly doesn't flinch before or complain afterwards. In addition Forker who is very near by, would have been unhindered and likely wouldn't have missed had he been attempting to punch.

So I can totally understand why others may have different opinions on the incident. But the evidence simply isn't as clear as you make it out to be.

It's similar with the O'Neill incident. Yes his knees are undoubtedly on Quinn's head but I've yet to see footage of them being there without Quinn pulling him by the shirt and legs. So whilst I can understand why people were saying it was red I honestly don't agree nor do I think the video evidence is incontrovertible.

No need for alternative facts or anything of the like.

Only someone with omniscience can be 100% certain of anything in life which seems to be your bar here in the face of what's plain to be seen. I don't accept what you've outlined in this instance so we'll have to disagree and leave it be because there's little else to add when the evidence is as clear as I perceive it to be and as unclear as you do. Best of luck to ye for the rest of the championship.

[AustinPowers]

Do Galway have anyone who would be considered a dirty player? They are developing a wee bit more cynicism but no one stands out.

Maybe that's why Sam  didn't sit  at the  front of the Galway bus last  summer?

[lurganblue]

He punched him surely. Noticed it at the time. It's one of those ones where he knew rightly he would get away with it but if you are clearly caught on camera then you have to deal with the consequences.  He should get a 1 game ban (as much as I would hate that as I think that would be a huge blow to Armagh)

That said, I'm sure there are loads of sly digs to ribs etc in all games that go unpunished and not caught on camera. It's the risk you run if you engage in that behaviour.  For example I stood watching Matty Donnelly choke Forker with 2 hands on 2 occasions in Omagh, not 20 yards from me. No action and no trial by media. 

[twohands!!!]

Do Galway have anyone who would be considered a dirty player? They are developing a wee bit more cynicism but no one stands out.

There's no Galway or Kerry players who I would consider a dirty player.

[BrotherMore6592]

[/quote]

I honestly don't accept that. To use the two most recent examples. I fully accept that my position is that Forker deliberately punches and then attempts to punch Kelly in the head. But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things. The first video when slowed down seems to show a deliberate punch initially. However when at normal speed I can't be certain that Forker isn't making some kind of bad attempt on the ball. There's also sudden head movement which I would have expected. So there clearly is credible evidence for an alternative point of view.

Likewise whilst I think the second one is an attempted punch, i can see the other argument that I don't see any contact with Kelly's head, nor does Kelly's head move to avoid contact and Kelly doesn't flinch before or complain afterwards. In addition Forker who is very near by, would have been unhindered and likely wouldn't have missed had he been attempting to punch.

So I can totally understand why others may have different opinions on the incident. But the evidence simply isn't as clear as you make it out to be.

It's similar with the O'Neill incident. Yes his knees are undoubtedly on Quinn's head but I've yet to see footage of them being there without Quinn pulling him by the shirt and legs. So whilst I can understand why people were saying it was red I honestly don't agree nor do I think the video evidence is incontrovertible.

No need for alternative facts or anything of the like.
[/quote]

You talk some shite mckeown.

Most of us could sit and carefully articulate a response in the same wording we'd send an email professionally in our jobs - but it's a GAA message board. Catch yourself on ffs.

Never seen as much waffle and filler words.

[BrotherMore6592]

He punched him surely. Noticed it at the time. It's one of those ones where he knew rightly he would get away with it but if you are clearly caught on camera then you have to deal with the consequences.  He should get a 1 game ban (as much as I would hate that as I think that would be a huge blow to Armagh)

That said, I'm sure there are loads of sly digs to ribs etc in all games that go unpunished and not caught on camera. It's the risk you run if you engage in that behaviour.   For example I stood watching Matty Donnelly choke Forker with 2 hands on 2 occasions in Omagh, not 20 yards from me. No action and no trial by media.

Ahh get away with that there would ye.

It was literally directly in front of me - forker instigated the whole thing - because Armagh were well beat at that stage and were never going to come back, and he wanted to start and stir up stuff.
The two of them had hands on each other. Matty Donnelly is as honest a player you'll get and would not provoke unless provoked.
Forker is what he is - hard enough reliable defender but will never go down as a great in ulster let alone AI history. Has had many a roasting and limitations exposed.

[David McKeown]

He punched him surely. Noticed it at the time. It's one of those ones where he knew rightly he would get away with it but if you are clearly caught on camera then you have to deal with the consequences.  He should get a 1 game ban (as much as I would hate that as I think that would be a huge blow to Armagh)

That said, I'm sure there are loads of sly digs to ribs etc in all games that go unpunished and not caught on camera. It's the risk you run if you engage in that behaviour.   For example I stood watching Matty Donnelly choke Forker with 2 hands on 2 occasions in Omagh, not 20 yards from me. No action and no trial by media.

Ahh get away with that there would ye.

It was literally directly in front of me - forker instigated the whole thing - because Armagh were well beat at that stage and were never going to come back, and he wanted to start and stir up stuff.
The two of them had hands on each other. Matty Donnelly is as honest a player you'll get and would not provoke unless provoked.
Forker is what he is - hard enough reliable defender but will never go down as a great in ulster let alone AI history. Has had many a roasting and limitations exposed.

A team that lost by two points and had a chance at a goal in the last minute were never going to come back?  Yeah you are right I'm the one who talks Shite.

[David McKeown]

Also thanks to the posters who proved my point there.