What if there had been no Irish famine?

Started by Eamonnca1, September 24, 2022, 08:49:26 PM

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seafoid

The population was pauperised. Most Croppies didn't go to university. They weren't fit to work in factories.
I don't know how long it took Irish immigrants in the US to become comfortable.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Eamonnca1

Right. But when the factories started to appear, the factory owners took it on themselves to build housing for the workers, which is where all those rows of terraced houses came from in towns and cities up and down the country. The businessmen were capable of giving the workers the bare minimum they needed to be able to do the work for them.

Rossfan

Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 08:52:35 AM
The population was pauperised.
Correct .
Probably 2 million existing on 2 acre plots of spuds.
Another 4 million not much better off.
Main source of income for the well heeled was renting their massive estates.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Baile an tuaigh

The starvation of Ireland required the deployment of more than half (67 regiments) of Britains 128 regiment army to remove Irelands food at gun point. Ireland had an abundance of food.

I use the word genocide, famine sounds like a smear to me.

seafoid

In 1840 the level of productivity the population of Ireland (except the north East) was at was comparable to rural Uttar Pradesh today. There wasn't just the famine. There was the economic system that produced it. You could argue that the after effects lasted until now with the excessive power of the church .
An alternative history without the famine would have required a different geographical location a very long way from England.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Rossfan

Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on September 26, 2022, 07:48:51 PM
The starvation of Ireland required the deployment of more than half (67 regiments) of Britains 128 regiment army to remove Irelands food at gun point. Ireland had an abundance of food.
.
It had but the poor devils who needed it most had no money to buy any of it.
Also prices went sky high as the greasy till merchants cashed in.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

From the Bunker

Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on September 26, 2022, 07:48:51 PM
The starvation of Ireland required the deployment of more than half (67 regiments) of Britains 128 regiment army to remove Irelands food at gun point. Ireland had an abundance of food.

I use the word genocide, famine sounds like a smear to me.

It is virtually impossible to have a famine in Ireland. There are just to many substitutes for a failed crop.

In fairness the British kindly set-up work-houses to comfort the starving.

Baile an tuaigh

James Joyce was right though, Ireland had an advanced culture very early and for the past millennium Ireland's history is truly nightmarish. Joyce had lived through part of the nightmare, observing how the British government partly through Ireland's  Catholic Church "hierarchy" and Anglo Irish toadies managed by slander and hypocrisy destroy Parnell and Ireland's hope for justice. England turned Ireland into a slaughter house of starvelings during the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. It's depressing to learn true history but if you want to learn the truth

Eamonnca1

Joyce was born only 30 years after the famine, so it would have been as recent in the collective memory for his generation as WWII was for us. He'd have known people who lived through it and it would have loomed larger over things than it does today.

Orior

Quote from: ONeill on September 24, 2022, 10:19:39 PM
Fermanagh would win Ulster.

Prior to the famine, Armagh was the most densely populated county, but that could never have been sustained particularly when the linen trade started to contract.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

seafoid

Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on September 27, 2022, 12:05:12 AM
James Joyce was right though, Ireland had an advanced culture very early and for the past millennium Ireland's history is truly nightmarish. Joyce had lived through part of the nightmare, observing how the British government partly through Ireland's  Catholic Church "hierarchy" and Anglo Irish toadies managed by slander and hypocrisy destroy Parnell and Ireland's hope for justice. England turned Ireland into a slaughter house of starvelings during the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. It's depressing to learn true history but if you want to learn the truth
Ukraine has a similar abusive relationship with Russia .
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

Quote from: Rossfan on September 26, 2022, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 08:52:35 AM
The population was pauperised.
Correct .
Probably 2 million existing on 2 acre plots of spuds.
Another 4 million not much better off.
Main source of income for the well heeled was renting their massive estates.
The battle of Aughrim was 1691. The first landlord estate was established in 1720.
The famine was 1840s.  The estates didn't last much longer
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

burdizzo

Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2023, 10:46:56 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 26, 2022, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 08:52:35 AM
The population was pauperised.
Correct .
Probably 2 million existing on 2 acre plots of spuds.
Another 4 million not much better off.
Main source of income for the well heeled was renting their massive estates.
The battle of Aughrim was 1691. The first landlord estate was established in 1720.
The famine was 1840s.  The estates didn't last much longer

It was the land acts that did for them. There's an idea the British establishment turned its back on the Irish landlords after the famine because they had failed to manage the population properly, and Ireland was still a restive country.

seafoid

Quote from: burdizzo on February 27, 2023, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2023, 10:46:56 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 26, 2022, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 08:52:35 AM
The population was pauperised.
Correct .
Probably 2 million existing on 2 acre plots of spuds.
Another 4 million not much better off.
Main source of income for the well heeled was renting their massive estates.
The battle of Aughrim was 1691. The first landlord estate was established in 1720.
The famine was 1840s.  The estates didn't last much longer

It was the land acts that did for them. There's an idea the British establishment turned its back on the Irish landlords after the famine because they had failed to manage the population properly, and Ireland was still a restive country.
It was organisation first. Building on the spirit of the whiteboys a century before. Led by visionaries like Davitt.
So far ahead of their time. Scotland still argues about tenure.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Jeepers Creepers

If you have a spare couple of minutes watch Kevin whelans interview about the famine on the Tommy Tiernan show