Ulster Club Hurling League

[johnneycool]

I'm still sceptical of whether the UHL will replace the Antrim league as the priority competition for the top hurling clubs in Down and Antrim.

Ballygalget didn't put out full strength teams in it last year and with the same management at the helm I don't think that mentality will change even if the Antrim leagues have been eroded in the last number of years. When most of the UHL fixtures were played there were little or no club fixtures in Antrim (chicken and egg!!) but plenty of county fixtures, so the county players were rested

Theres no doubting that the weaker hurling teams are benefiting from regular competitive games probably at an equal or higher standard that what they have been accustomed to in the own county leagues, however I can't say the same for the Div 1 games in the Ulster league.

The Ulster council will need to prove they are in this for the long haul and only time will tell on that front.

[theskull1]

Trying to keep my composure after that Mick  . I would prefer if you actually read what I have written rather than try and read between my lines and come up with what "you think" I am saying. I'll clarify my view for you shall I?

Skull, I think you are being very short sighted. You continually focus on the Antrim set up and games within Antrim. In order to progress Hurling in both Antrim and Ulster the standard has to be raised throughout the province.

The UHL should improve the standard of hurling in Ulster in the weaker counties IF the clubs are serious about it and their respective counties don't overburden dual clubs with football matches (the stronger sport in these counties) the next day which will ultimately deplete squads. Antrim should play their part in trying to help these clubs improve if they put out their full squads on take it seriously. I have grave doubts that this will ever happen. What makes you think it will?

In order to raise the standard we need a strong competition across the board and the Ulster league is the means to do this.

It has every chance if taken seriously to raise the standards at almost every level in Ulster except the top division in Antrim. However, If the UHL was the only game in town then the standard in Div 1 would be lowered. Playing the games on Saturday (combined with Dual player commitments on Sunday) as well as the fact County players won't be playing in it are the reasons why I hold this opinion

What eventually will happen is that the Ulster league will take over as the main league by means of the Ulster council marketing it better and providing better incentives for teams to win there leagues.

I cannot see this happening with the Antrim leagues (div1 and mabye div2) although I can see the argument for most of the other divisons/counties. What about clubs with reserve teams in Antrim. It's not that easy to split squads up and send them all over Ulster to fulfill fixtures and maintain support from players in the long term. Players on the fringe of the senior team will never get noticed if the play in different leagues at different venues. That is not workable from our clubs perspective.
Could I ask you if you think that each of the all county fixtures committees will agree to these matches being played on Sundays which they need to be for the UHL to become credible for a start? Is that not a big ask?

If we have a situation where the Ulster league is run in the summer months with top class games with all clubs playing their top players is this a bad thing or would you still want to see the Antrim league dominate?

That situation would be wonderfull Mick (I've assumed that the games will be on a Sunday). Nothing better in fact. At the moment though that is nothing more than a pipe dream that bears no relavence to my current views on the competition as it is today.  

or would you still want to see the Antrim league dominate? So as you can win Ulster by 20Pt's. Come on move on, especially in these changing times.

Not once have I stated that it is my desire so why ask such stupid questions? I'll say it one more time. My desire is to see hurling standards in Antrim progress (NOT DOMINATE THE REST OF ULSTER). I would also love to see the standards of hurling progess in the rest of Ulster and believe that the UHL will help do this in weaker areas. Hopefully in time there will be nothing between the counties. But someone has to keep the standard high in the meantime. The top tier in Antrim will not be able to do this by playing in the UHL as it stands today. If Antrims standards fall then where will hurling in Ulster be?
Could you just elaborate on "these changing times" What does that mean?

My opimions are valid, pragmatic and widely held Mick, so please take a moment before you consider your reply.

[MadMick007]

The Ulster league is being held back by counties wanting to maintain there own leagues. Take Derry for example. For years they complained about not getting enough Hurling games and that leagues were never finished etc and when the Ulster league is announced they all of a sudden become protective of their league. The Antrim league as it is currently does not provide top class Hurley for the top teams. There is to many poor teams at the lower end.
Johnycool, you say that Ballygalget do not field strong teams, you state valid reasons but if it were to be played during peak season would they not filed strong teams. Who would you rather play Kevin Lynch's or Lambh Dearg?
Currently there is no great honour in winning the Antrim League as it was about 6 years ago. Put the priority on the Ulster league and we will see a bit of competition. Compare it to the English FA cup, nobody really gives a dam who wins it, the champions league is the pinnacle.
I agree with the points around reserves and for those teams who have reserves then maybe they can shadow the fixtures of the senior teams. This is something that can be developed.
Why not reverse the situation and play the county leagues early in the season and the ulster league in peak times. Surely this would provide strong matches coming up to championship.

[johnneycool]

There's no doubt that the extended inter county calendar has had a detrimental effect on club hurling with the Antrim league being a good example of that. The same debates about club and county games are going on in Clare and Limerick etc if you ever get a chance to follow a few of the topics on AFR.

Firstly the Ulster championship is a worthless competition now and secondly a lot of the round robin games in both the Christy Ring and Laim McCarthy are meaningless. I'd suggest that the same happens in the Nicky Rackard as well but I don't know for sure.

Streamline these competitions to free up weekends for club games, but also make the club competitons meaningful as well. The Antrim leagues were much stronger 6 to 7 years ago, why? Personally speaking i think i was more to do with having to move the bulk of the fixtures away from the normal sunday double bill, senior and reserves, day out for the family etc, etc and fitting them in willy nilly any night of the week especially if there's a fair amount of travelling involved.

I don't think its so much to do with weaker teams in the leagues as every once in a while every club has it's bad years, we were relegated in the mid ninties, Loughgeile had a few bad years where they should of been relegated but for a bit of jiggery pokery by the county board got to stay up. Ballycastle have had their problems recently as well, but I still don't think that is the main issue.

Get the club hurling back to sundays as much as possible by playing less crap inter county games would solve a load of the issues IMO.

[theskull1]

Just because all county leagues are poor doesn't make the UHL league the panecea you seem to be making it out to be. You seem incapable of seeing the realities of the UHL as it stands today and why people who play at the the top level in Ulster have a problem with it in terms of offering a meaningful competition (which we all would like it to be). My viewpoint does not detract from someone in another part of the province who see's nothing but positives from the UHL, it just depends where hurling is at in your own part of the world. Why are you not prepared to accept that the views I hold are valid and in the intersts of progressing the game. You have yet to comment specifically on any of the saliant points I have made on this discussion so far rather you have simplistically attacked the antrim man for holding back the development of hurling in ulster which could not be further from the true. I would be grateful if you could address the points I have raised regarding the UHL and respond to these specifically.

Just to back up what JC has said, the All County League in Antrim has suffered initially as far back as 17 years from the increase in preparation time for our County Teams which has been made even worse by the increase in the number of County matches over recent years. This is the real reason for Antrims problems. What I would like to see is Antrim and every other County giving their players back to the clubs and letting them play. Make sure that every club trains their players properly, play regular matches, and pull the County Panels from those playing well in the league. We have tried hoarding County Players away for years and it hasn't gotten us to far up the road, so why do we keep putting our eggs in the one basket year after year after year ?? Croke Park like to pay lip service and say that the club is the heart of the GAA. Until they start changing their strategy and get away from being solely interested in money then I fear the worst for hurling in Antrim and in many other counties. The interest is on the wain simply because the scene does not exist for people to get into it

[BallyhaiseMan]

Lads slightly off topic
The Cavan Teams...how good are they? Anyone of you guys played against them

Division 3/4 Antrim standard? or what?

was thinking of maybe joining one of them.

[Guillem2]

This UL is potentially a great competition. It is planned to be played on Saturday nights away from Liam McCarthy etc matches so there is no excuse for teams to field weaken teams. If they want to that is up to them. But IMHO I reckon they should be considering the long term development of their club. Players need games. Antrim GAC didn't provide them last year or the year before. Clubs should focus on this league, take it seriously and use it to improve teams/players for the county championships. You have guaranteed games against opponents of an appropriate standard. What more do you want.
I post this in a personal capacity and not on behave of my club.

[theskull1]

Come on G2 get into the real world. Playing matches on Saturday nights so that it doesn't clash with matches the next day is one of the reasons why it is a half arsed competition. Are you telling me that clubs with teams in the UHL will play all their top hurlers even though they may have to play in tight football match the next day? This will not happen and you know it...hence the standard of the games will be diminshed. Its too simplistic to say that players simply need games...the games need to be meaningful to be of use. I'm sure clubs will try and make the most of it but that does not mean the competition has serious flaws which I'm trying to point out so that they in the future might be addrressed. Until then my opinion still holds. BTW I have nothing but contempt for what the GAC did last year to hurling fixtures from U16 up into senior, but to suggest that that is a good enough reason to throw the towel in with an Antrim league is a bit over the top

[nrico2006]

The best of the cavan sides would be of division 4 standard.  They got hammered by the antrim junior champions in the ulster club.

[MadMick007]

The Ulster league can inject some new life into club hurling. looking at the fixtures for Div1 I would say on paper they will provide better games than the Antrim or Derry league alone, and I would suspect the Down clubs would agree as they do not have a Senior League. With Div2 providing strong games for the weaker teams that would be in an Antrim or Derry Div1 and the prospect of promotion gives a real incentive to win these leagues. In essence the only thing that the Ulster leagues are missing are peak times for the fixtures. If the counties would move over and promote the Ulster league as the number one league we would see strong competition as you are looking for Skull.
people say the Antrim league was strong 6 to 7 years ago, was there any matches called off due to football then? Not very many.

Its time for change, Ulster league No.1

[theskull1]

. In essence the only thing that the Ulster leagues are missing are peak times for the fixtures.

No Mick that is not all it is missing. The knock on effect of it being on Saturday is that many players won't play because of work commitments and/or matches (more important in their or their clubs opinion) being fixed for the next day. Add to that the fact that county players will also not play any part. 
This makes it a poor competition which does nothing for the top tier of hurling. If it is not a good competition then there is a high possibility that many club will become disallusioned with it and pull out (you'd want to be travelling all those miles for a reason). Do you accept that this could happen?

If the counties would move over and promote the Ulster league as the number one league we would see strong competition as you are looking for Skull.

Look...the UHL is what it is today Mick. My comments are based on the current format. Let me know when they change the format and I may have a different opinion, but until then it is what it is currently..........

people say the Antrim league was strong 6 to 7 years ago, was there any matches called off due to football then? Not very many.

Well is suggest you speak to someone older then. The Antrim leagues were strong (i.e. regular, compeditive, meaningful, well attended) up to 1989 and they have been on the wain since as County Management became more and more driven to attain AI success. We have been digging away at the foundations of the game ever since and I can't see anyone trying to change it

Its time for change, Ulster league No.1

ra ra get the pom poms out ......don't listen to disenting voices... we are the devil

[maxpower]

Good man  Skull,  i was all on for Dunloy to enter this competition after the fictures debacle that was last year but having given it a bit more thought over the winter i'm not so sure it will help any of the top clubs, and the withdrawal of cushendall does seriously concern me.  that speaks volumes for what they think off it

[milltown row]

Antrim's fixtures, to be sorted out on Thursday, already the Ulster council have set proposed dates for this, if like last year (even though we did not enter because of the all Ireland run, and maybe Cushendall have done the same) arranged our own leagues around the Ulster hurling league. This is wrong, I proposed last year that the Ulster league be played in February through to the start of our own leagues, this would be better than arranging challenge games. County players did not play anyway so they would not be missed, formations, tactics, and having a look at fringe players would be the benefits of an earlier start. 

I'm all for the creation of a top tier format involving the top teams in Antrim, Down and Derry in high summer but this will never happen in football dominated counties (even Antrim is dominated by football and we are crap at it) so when they arrange hurling games on the Saturday night we will not have our footballers for they will be playing football the next day. So the standards will be poor.

[maxpower]

So this year again the Antrim leagues will be arranged around the uhl.

Whats the bets more matches fixed after september than before June

[milltown row]

heard it's the 14th of April for the start of the Ulster Hurling league no other news yet.

is it the same funding again for the games and did the clubs have any problems claiming the money from the Ulster Council last year?