Man Utd Thread:

[Boycey]

I been attempting to write something similar to that Ed but you have said it much better... I've defended individual Utd players on here loads of times as my belief is that as a group of players they SHOULD be pretty decent and don't buy in to the 'hes shit and he's shit'  way of grading players nowadays. Sometimes a team are better than the sum of their parts like Liverpool but United are significantly worse than the sum of their parts and that currently has.to go down to the way they are managed/coached.

I'll probably be made look stupid by evening time but I don't see a will amongst the club hierarchy to make a managerial change either...

Boycey there is a decent group of players but AWB, Maguire, Shaw and McFred are not top level players. There is a serious problem with the mentality too and the coaching seems to be shocking as it is pure individualism rather than a team.

United should have set a deep back 4, McFred in front, soaked up and attacked in the break. They were caught between pressing and not pressing. No game plan whatsoever. That being said they still need 4-5 players at the top level.

No matter what Ronaldo is a problem and Ole doesn't have the authority to deal with it.

We could argue the toss about the relative ability of players for hours and not agree My point and I've stated it multiple times on here is that the players you have mentioned there for example are/should be competent enough to play a part in a well defined and coached system. Maguire has been a mainstay in an England team that reached a World Cup semi and Euro Final recently. Shaw was also in the Euro squad.. Fred played nearly all the minutes for Brazil in a Copa tournament during the summer....

I'm not saying they the best in the world I'm saying they can contribute under a better coaching regime which was the main thrust of Eds post. His points about Liverpool and Chelsea's improvements ring very true to me....

[brokencrossbar1]

Could those players mentioned be better under a better coach?  Absolutely.

Are these players good enough for United to push on to PL/CL winning levels under a better coach?  Absolutely not

[Boycey]

Could those players mentioned be better under a better coach?  Absolutely.

Are these players good enough for United to push on to PL/CL winning levels under a better coach?  Absolutely not

Opinion not fact, worse teams/squads have won leagues.

[seafoid]

They just look very poorly coached and organized. No defensive system of any kind, from front to back. That was junior soccer stuff from the likes of Maguire and Shaw yesterday.

Klopp took over a poor and drifting Liverpool squad and within weeks had them winning away at Chelsea and City and, later that season, knocking United and Dortmund out of the UEFA cup. The players weren't any better in terms of ability. They were just given a system and coached to learn to work within it. Still suffered some poor results that year due to those individual shortcomings, but the progression was clear over those first few months and then continued as he improved the quality of the squad.

United need the modern equivalent of George Graham coming in and literally tying Winterburn-Adams-Bould-Dixon together and endlessly drilling them in how a defensive line should function as a unit. I don't mean just the defense, but they need to decide what kind of system they want and get a manager in who can put it into practice so everyone knows what they should be doing with and without the ball. Any boys who don't want to do the hard yards in training, ship them the f**k out.

As a Liverpool fan though, I'm happy to see Ole continue at the wheel!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/10/25/liverpool-left-manchester-united-trailing-field/
Back in 2010, when the Fenway Park Group rescued the club from the huckster ownership of George Gillett and Tom Hicks, Liverpool's overall earnings were just 55 per cent of United's: £184 million to £331m. Last season they were within touching distance. While United earned £643m, Liverpool turned over £619m
Clearly the most astute move by the new regime was the one to hire Klopp. He brought the success on the pitch the rocket-fuelled the bottom line. It is indicative of the difference between the operational expertise of the two organisations that, before Liverpool were in the market for him, United failed to persuade the then Borussia Dortmund coach to bring his brilliance to Manchester. It probably didn't help that when he came to Old Trafford for talks, the executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward greeted Klopp, one of football's enduring romantics, with the words "welcome to Disneyland".
For sure, there have been some woeful public relations missteps along the way by FSG. Trying to impose a £77 ticket price, looking to trademark the city's Liverbird symbol, hoping to piggyback on the government's furlough scheme, not to mention the European Super League proposal: such rapidly-ditched embarrassments were perhaps the inevitable outcome of the collision between ultra-capitalist owners and a hardcore support than prides itself on socialist traditions. But, such errors notwithstanding, nobody could argue with what the owners have delivered both on the pitch and off it. 
If you want a measure of the scale of the booster Henry and his team have injected into the Anfield revenue streams, it is there in the assumed value of the club. When they bought it in 2010, admittedly from a beleaguered regime facing foreclosure from the banks seeking return on reckless debt, they paid £300m. In April this year the club was valued by Forbes at £2.96 billion. A near tenfold increase in 11 years: that is what you call a return on investment. And if Liverpool win the league this season, bettering United yet again, it will only add a few more noughts.

[seafoid]

Looks like Ole out Conte in

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/10/25/players-lose-faith-ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united/
Antonio Conte, the former Chelsea, Juventus and Inter Milan coach, is keen on the job, has been for a while and is prepared to bide his time but United are understood to be very wary of his style of management.

[Gmac]

I think keane  said it best these players will throw ole under the bus the same as they did to Jose.

[seafoid]

They just look very poorly coached and organized. No defensive system of any kind, from front to back. That was junior soccer stuff from the likes of Maguire and Shaw yesterday.

Klopp took over a poor and drifting Liverpool squad and within weeks had them winning away at Chelsea and City and, later that season, knocking United and Dortmund out of the UEFA cup. The players weren't any better in terms of ability. They were just given a system and coached to learn to work within it. Still suffered some poor results that year due to those individual shortcomings, but the progression was clear over those first few months and then continued as he improved the quality of the squad.

United need the modern equivalent of George Graham coming in and literally tying Winterburn-Adams-Bould-Dixon together and endlessly drilling them in how a defensive line should function as a unit. I don't mean just the defense, but they need to decide what kind of system they want and get a manager in who can put it into practice so everyone knows what they should be doing with and without the ball. Any boys who don't want to do the hard yards in training, ship them the f**k out.

As a Liverpool fan though, I'm happy to see Ole continue at the wheel!

Klopp was a successful coach before he went to Liverpool. Solskjaer was not.
Liverpool v Man Utd is the number one rivalry in English soccer . Yesterday was total facepalm for Utd

[Armagh18]

Could those players mentioned be better under a better coach?  Absolutely.

Are these players good enough for United to push on to PL/CL winning levels under a better coach?  Absolutely not

Definitely don't agree there. I've seen enough from probably every player on that team to rate them as good enough to play on title winning teams when they're playing to their full potential.

[RedHand88]

Could those players mentioned be better under a better coach?  Absolutely.

Are these players good enough for United to push on to PL/CL winning levels under a better coach?  Absolutely not

Definitely don't agree there. I've seen enough from probably every player on that team to rate them as good enough to play on title winning teams when they're playing to their full potential.

Maguire?
Wan Bisakka?
Fred?
McTominay?

You cannot be serious.

[stiffler]

MUTV cancelled a rerun of the game today, that's another first for ole.

[Armagh18]

Could those players mentioned be better under a better coach?  Absolutely.

Are these players good enough for United to push on to PL/CL winning levels under a better coach?  Absolutely not

Definitely don't agree there. I've seen enough from probably every player on that team to rate them as good enough to play on title winning teams when they're playing to their full potential.

Maguire?
Wan Bisakka?
Fred?
McTominay?

You cannot be serious.

Maguire- massive player for England and was brilliant at times last season for United (yes theres a mistake in him and when he's bad he looks like he wouldn't get on for Dundalk).

I've seen Wan Bissaka roast Raheem Sterling and most other so called world class wingers he's faced. Usually solid defensively although very limited going forward.

McTominay- theres definitely a decent footballer there, not saying he's world class but nothing wrong with him as a squad player when he's on form.

Fred- big player for an ok Brazil team, good worker although yes poor on the ball and mistakes in him, but again at his best a good player.

I'll agree that when any of those lads are poor they can be very very poor but i refuse to believe that the ability isn't there.

[gawa316]

Bar maybe Maguire the rest would only good enough to be squad players in a title winning side

[sid waddell]

Imagine what Klopp would do with that United squad. The great thing is imagining is all we'll ever have.

[Armagh18]

Bar maybe Maguire the rest would only good enough to be squad players in a title winning side

Ferguson or even Klopp would have this team cleaning up.

[gawa316]

Bar maybe Maguire the rest would only good enough to be squad players in a title winning side

Ferguson or even Klopp would have this team cleaning up.

Klopp would've bought a new CDM instead an extra attacker who wasn't needed