FAI...Spring friendlies for Interim Manager - Belgium/Swiss

Started by Cúig huaire, November 19, 2009, 01:34:00 PM

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clonadmad

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:15:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2021, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 02:53:17 PM
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

You have 12 year olds going to the Dublin school boy clubs from outside Dublin and one condition for them to come on board is that they give up other sports

sid waddell

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: clonadmad on March 28, 2021, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:15:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2021, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 02:53:17 PM
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

You have 12 year olds going to the Dublin school boy clubs from outside Dublin and one condition for them to come on board is that they give up other sports

I'm not sure I believe that as schoolboy clubs are bound by geography

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.

thewobbler

The big difference BB is that there will be young boys and teenagers whose ultimate sporting dream is to play for Ajax or Sporting Lisbon, Benfica or PSV.

There is not one person ever born whose sporting dream culminated in playing for Shamrock Rovers or Cork City. It has and always will involve an English club, or Celtic.

sid waddell

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

So we are agreed. A leagues popularity is not based on whether players can leave for a better one.

Rovers Bohs used to attract 40,000 plus. And if you think it only attracts 2k today you are in for a rude awakening if you want to get a ticket

weareros

Some good players coming up but the worry is some won't have the ambition to play for Ireland, and last night's result will only add to that. Mipo Odubeko looks a great prospect. You could not blame him if he declares for the land of his family, Nigeria, but England seem after him too and Rice is probably in his ear at West Ham. That would be a bad loss for a lad born in Dublin. Whatever way you look at it, we'll have to ride out 4 or 5 rough years.

sid waddell

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:53:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

So we are agreed. A leagues popularity is not based on whether players can leave for a better one.

Rovers Bohs used to attract 40,000 plus. And if you think it only attracts 2k today you are in for a rude awakening if you want to get a ticket
A league's popularity is largely based on history and tradition

Celtic v Rangers will always be a massive match even if the teams aren't very good because it has over 100 years of history which gives it huge weight

There are a lot of clubs throughout Europe who have big support bases based on history - Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV will always be big clubs, so too Benfica and Porto, Anderlecht, Rapid Vienna, IFK Gothenburg, Red Star Belgrade, Partizan Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, Dynamo Kiev etc.

These clubs all have a history of competing and winning in Europe during a time when players played for clubs in their own countries

But that has never been the case in Ireland, because of historical peculiarities we never had big clubs in this country, and our best footballers always looked to England

As regards Portugal and Holland, these leagues are 6 and 7 in Europe respectively, they are good leagues which attract very good players

Somewhere like Luxembourg, our conquerers last night, would be a fair comparison

The whole history of the League of Ireland is one of failure, I mean what's the best result for a League of Ireland team ever in Europe? Shels beating Hajduk Split?

In my lifetime and the lifetime of pretty much anybody still alive, the best Irish players always went to England and thee LOI made do with the leftovers, that's been the the way for the whole history of football basically

Rovers v Bohs never came remotely close to attracting 40k in my lifetime, I doubt it has attracted more than 7-8k max in my lifetime

LOI games used to attract bigger crowds in the 50s and 60s but that time is long, long gone

30k at an occasional FAI Cup final is as good as it can get in the modern era


seafoid

Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

sid waddell

#8965
Quote from: seafoid on March 28, 2021, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
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Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
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Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
.
Porto have won three European trophies in this century, the Champions League in 2004 and the Europa League in 2003 and 2011

They're there again in the quarter-finals this year having knocked out Juventus

Ajax reached the semis two years ago knocking out Real Madrid and Juventus and should have reached the final

The big Dutch and Portuguese teams have particular business models, they sign the best young worldwide talent young and sell them on for big money, in weak years or with a bit of luck, in the Champions League they can sometimes nip in and go very deep into the competition

Portugal and Holland are also two of the greatest centres of footballing thought in the world and have a ready supply of good home grown talent

You're not wrong when you say that European football is a ponzi scheme, and the new Champions League format from 2023 or 24 or whenever will make that a lot worse - but Portugal/Holland v the League of Ireland, we're talking totally different levels of footballing backwaters here

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 04:12:22 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:53:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

So we are agreed. A leagues popularity is not based on whether players can leave for a better one.

Rovers Bohs used to attract 40,000 plus. And if you think it only attracts 2k today you are in for a rude awakening if you want to get a ticket
A league's popularity is largely based on history and tradition

Celtic v Rangers will always be a massive match even if the teams aren't very good because it has over 100 years of history which gives it huge weight

There are a lot of clubs throughout Europe who have big support bases based on history - Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV will always be big clubs, so too Benfica and Porto, Anderlecht, Rapid Vienna, IFK Gothenburg, Red Star Belgrade, Partizan Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, Dynamo Kiev etc.

These clubs all have a history of competing and winning in Europe during a time when players played for clubs in their own countries

But that has never been the case in Ireland, because of historical peculiarities we never had big clubs in this country, and our best footballers always looked to England

As regards Portugal and Holland, these leagues are 6 and 7 in Europe respectively, they are good leagues which attract very good players

Somewhere like Luxembourg, our conquerers last night, would be a fair comparison

The whole history of the League of Ireland is one of failure, I mean what's the best result for a League of Ireland team ever in Europe? Shels beating Hajduk Split?

In my lifetime and the lifetime of pretty much anybody still alive, the best Irish players always went to England and thee LOI made do with the leftovers, that's been the the way for the whole history of football basically

Rovers v Bohs never came remotely close to attracting 40k in my lifetime, I doubt it has attracted more than 7-8k max in my lifetime

LOI games used to attract bigger crowds in the 50s and 60s but that time is long, long gone

30k at an occasional FAI Cup final is as good as it can get in the modern era

Thats more accurate than your original 'point'.

The last Rovers home game v Bohs with a crowd was a full house of 7,000 plus.

But you are still fixed on this point that there is some unique flaw in Irish football that the best go abroad. They do in Holland, Portugal, Belgium, France and so on.

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 04:23:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 28, 2021, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 12:04:30 PM




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
.
Porto have won three European trophies in this century, the Champions League in 2004 and the Europa League in 2003 and 2011

They're there again in the quarter-finals this year having knocked out Juventus

Ajax reached the semis two years ago knocking out Real Madrid and Juventus and should have reached the final

The big Dutch and Portuguese teams have particular business models, they sign the best young worldwide talent young and sell them on for big money, in weak years or with a bit of luck, in the Champions League they can sometimes nip in and go very deep into the competition

Portugal and Holland are also two of the greatest centres of footballing thought in the world and have a ready supply of good home grown talent

You're not wrong when you say that European football is a ponzi scheme, and the new Champions League format from 2023 or 24 or whenever will make that a lot worse - but Portugal/Holland v the League of Ireland, we're talking totally different levels of footballing backwaters here

You are now arguing against your own point.

A league not being a pinnacle is not a definition of a bad league or why people don't go through turnstyles

Eire90


Itchy

Just to clarify point from earlier...

In my area, the local League of Ireland team will invite kids into their "elite" squads, they start at U11. At U15 (ie 14 year olds) they will tell those elite kids to sign a contract, stop playing other sports and leave your own soccer club or you are booted out of their elite squad.

My son is U12, he is strong at gaa and soccer. Already they elite squad people are onto me about making choices like this, pretty much they are trying to guilt you into jacking GAA early as they imply you are taking the place of a "soccer" kids elsewhere and you are probably loyal to GAA.

Its an atrocious attitude as all sports to some degree can compliment each other, kids should be encouraged to play as many as they can and i think 16/17 is time enough for kids to choose themselves and not to be forced into it. But alas we are aping the uk here and thats what they do and of course we have to sell our best youngsters over there to make the money. Soccer in Ireland should start thinking about regional teams like rugby and see can they enter the scottish leagues and develop our players here.