Author Topic: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on  (Read 769411 times)

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8955 on: March 28, 2021, 03:19:41 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.

shark

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8956 on: March 28, 2021, 03:20:34 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

Yeah he actually said 15 and 12 (when referring to his own son) in the same post.

clonadmad

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8957 on: March 28, 2021, 03:25:58 PM »
Carty the rugby player was handy in soccer and GAA at 17  but chose rugby. Both soccer and rugby need to broaden the player base. As long as the GAA plug the Dublin model most players from other counties won't win anything. Soccer and rugby have an opportunity.

More people play soccer than football, hurling and rugby combined....

Any figures?

Its aged but there are newer surveys with broadly the same results. On the phone so this will do

https://www.esri.ie/publications/sports-participation-and-health-among-adults-in-ireland

Page 22.

Soccer 13%, 5 a side 4%.. 17% adult male participation.

Football 8%, hurling 5%, rugby not listed as under 1%. So 14%

17 > 14.

The ESRI methodology slightly skewed the numbers with participation in 5 a side

When those numbers were compiled I was in my early 40’s,played 5 a side twice a month,long retired from hurling but to class me and others like me as soccer players in those numbers would be well wide  of the mark

It also shows a gap in the market for half pace hurling and football for us ould lads who have no other avenue available bar 5 a side soccer

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8958 on: March 28, 2021, 03:27:25 PM »
Also the comparison with England is unfair. Where does the game rank amongst similar sized countries?

Denmark   5.79
Finland   5.54
Slovakia   5.46
Norway   5.42
Ireland   4.94
Croatia   4.11
Moldova   4.03
Bosnia & Herzegovina   3.28
Albania 2.9

The answer is in the middle.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8959 on: March 28, 2021, 03:28:41 PM »
Carty the rugby player was handy in soccer and GAA at 17  but chose rugby. Both soccer and rugby need to broaden the player base. As long as the GAA plug the Dublin model most players from other counties won't win anything. Soccer and rugby have an opportunity.

More people play soccer than football, hurling and rugby combined....

Any figures?

Its aged but there are newer surveys with broadly the same results. On the phone so this will do

https://www.esri.ie/publications/sports-participation-and-health-among-adults-in-ireland

Page 22.

Soccer 13%, 5 a side 4%.. 17% adult male participation.

Football 8%, hurling 5%, rugby not listed as under 1%. So 14%

17 > 14.

The ESRI methodology slightly skewed the numbers with participation in 5 a side

When those numbers were compiled I was in my early 40’s,played 5 a side twice a month,long retired from hurling but to class me and others like me as soccer players in those numbers would be well wide  of the mark

It also shows a gap in the market for half pace hurling and football for us ould lads who have no other avenue available bar 5 a side soccer

Ok. Remove 5 a side and tag rugby.

The same number of people play soccer as football, hurling and rugby combined.

clonadmad

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8960 on: March 28, 2021, 03:28:59 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

You have 12 year olds going to the Dublin school boy clubs from outside Dublin and one condition for them to come on board is that they give up other sports

sid waddell

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8961 on: March 28, 2021, 03:32:03 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8962 on: March 28, 2021, 03:32:15 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds

You have 12 year olds going to the Dublin school boy clubs from outside Dublin and one condition for them to come on board is that they give up other sports

I'm not sure I believe that as schoolboy clubs are bound by geography

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8963 on: March 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.

thewobbler

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8964 on: March 28, 2021, 03:40:26 PM »
The big difference BB is that there will be young boys and teenagers whose ultimate sporting dream is to play for Ajax or Sporting Lisbon, Benfica or PSV.

There is not one person ever born whose sporting dream culminated in playing for Shamrock Rovers or Cork City. It has and always will involve an English club, or Celtic.

sid waddell

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8965 on: March 28, 2021, 03:46:15 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8966 on: March 28, 2021, 03:53:40 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

So we are agreed. A leagues popularity is not based on whether players can leave for a better one.

Rovers Bohs used to attract 40,000 plus. And if you think it only attracts 2k today you are in for a rude awakening if you want to get a ticket

weareros

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8967 on: March 28, 2021, 03:56:58 PM »
Some good players coming up but the worry is some won’t have the ambition to play for Ireland, and last night’s result will only add to that. Mipo Odubeko looks a great prospect. You could not blame him if he declares for the land of his family, Nigeria, but England seem after him too and Rice is probably in his ear at West Ham. That would be a bad loss for a lad born in Dublin. Whatever way you look at it, we’ll have to ride out 4 or 5 rough years.

sid waddell

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8968 on: March 28, 2021, 04:12:22 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Ajax v PSV or Ajax v Feyenoord are massive matches, they can credibly be classed as among the biggest in Europe

So too Benfica v Porto, which used to attract 135k to the Stadium of Light

Rovers v Bohs attracts 2-3k

So we are agreed. A leagues popularity is not based on whether players can leave for a better one.

Rovers Bohs used to attract 40,000 plus. And if you think it only attracts 2k today you are in for a rude awakening if you want to get a ticket
A league's popularity is largely based on history and tradition

Celtic v Rangers will always be a massive match even if the teams aren't very good because it has over 100 years of history which gives it huge weight

There are a lot of clubs throughout Europe who have big support bases based on history - Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV will always be big clubs, so too Benfica and Porto, Anderlecht, Rapid Vienna, IFK Gothenburg, Red Star Belgrade, Partizan Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, Dynamo Kiev etc.

These clubs all have a history of competing and winning in Europe during a time when players played for clubs in their own countries

But that has never been the case in Ireland, because of historical peculiarities we never had big clubs in this country, and our best footballers always looked to England

As regards Portugal and Holland, these leagues are 6 and 7 in Europe respectively, they are good leagues which attract very good players

Somewhere like Luxembourg, our conquerers last night, would be a fair comparison

The whole history of the League of Ireland is one of failure, I mean what's the best result for a League of Ireland team ever in Europe? Shels beating Hajduk Split?

In my lifetime and the lifetime of pretty much anybody still alive, the best Irish players always went to England and thee LOI made do with the leftovers, that's been the the way for the whole history of football basically

Rovers v Bohs never came remotely close to attracting 40k in my lifetime, I doubt it has attracted more than 7-8k max in my lifetime

LOI games used to attract bigger crowds in the 50s and 60s but that time is long, long gone

30k at an occasional FAI Cup final is as good as it can get in the modern era


seafoid

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8969 on: March 28, 2021, 04:17:05 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition

And Seamus Coleman has consistently been one of the best right backs in the EPL. Jason McClean has had a great if flagging career. Bazunu is considered the best teenage keeper in Europe. Meyler, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and so on.

And if you are quoting Roddy Collins you are definitionally wrong.

You could say the same about every league in Europe bar 4.
Last time I looked the LOI was ranked 37 in Europe

Bazunu left Ireland at 17 and it's a long time since those other players left the league

And bar Coleman they were all pretty much journeymen

Hoolahan was skilful alright but it took him a long, long time to work his way up to international level, he was into his 30s before he established himself

Players with ambition want out of the LOI and that's a major reason why it can't develop in terms of quality and why it doesn't attract spectator support

We are the 29th best populated country so slightly below whete we should be.

A list of players who left Dundalk and didn't or kinda made it was posited. I pointed out there is a list of players who left other clubs and did make it. Maybe its a Dundalk thing.

Players with ambition want out of every league bar the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Budesliga and even then. It doesn't turn off Portugese or Dutch fans. Not accepting that.
Dutch teams have won six European Cups

Portuguese teams have won four European Cups

Not recently.  Soccer now is all about the concentration of money. The Dutch League is a feeder for the biggest Euro clubs. That Ajax team was broken up. Monaco had a decent run in the Champions League a few years ago. They were broken up. How long has it been since a team from Eastern Europe won the European Cup ? 30 years. Ajax was 95.

Barcelona have €1 billion in debt. Most of the money goes on player remuneration

 European soccer is a Ponzi scheme.
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