Author Topic: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on  (Read 769403 times)

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8940 on: March 28, 2021, 01:31:12 PM »
Carty the rugby player was handy in soccer and GAA at 17  but chose rugby. Both soccer and rugby need to broaden the player base. As long as the GAA plug the Dublin model most players from other counties won't win anything. Soccer and rugby have an opportunity.

More people play soccer than football, hurling and rugby combined....

rrhf

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8941 on: March 28, 2021, 01:45:14 PM »
Yes the do be playing it... terribly though. Luxembourg trois pointe....Irelande nul pointe

themac_23

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8942 on: March 28, 2021, 01:55:15 PM »
 I can’t watch Ireland anymore. I want a side that can win and at international level ya have to play the hand you’re dealt not the one you want. O’Neill & McCarthy both done that with decent success. Built from the back and tried to play percentages with a team that is hard to beat. Kenny is trying to play possession football with players who aren’t capable of it at that level. If we can’t successfully play that type of game against Luxembourg, what the hell will happen when we play a decent side, it needs ended and it needs done soon

dublin7

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8943 on: March 28, 2021, 01:58:40 PM »
Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

They played LOI, but it's wasn't through any FAI structures put in place by FAI. The LOI clubs were abandoned by Delaney when he was in charge of the FAI and that's part of the problem.

If you are a good youngster in Leinster playing rugby you know there's a clear path to get into Leinster and then the international team. If you're a good young footballers in Ireland you're encouraged to go the UK rather than a LOI club as that's less profitable for the club

clonadmad

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8944 on: March 28, 2021, 02:22:41 PM »
Carty the rugby player was handy in soccer and GAA at 17  but chose rugby. Both soccer and rugby need to broaden the player base. As long as the GAA plug the Dublin model most players from other counties won't win anything. Soccer and rugby have an opportunity.

More people play soccer than football, hurling and rugby combined....

Any figures?

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8945 on: March 28, 2021, 02:27:42 PM »
Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

They played LOI, but it's wasn't through any FAI structures put in place by FAI. The LOI clubs were abandoned by Delaney when he was in charge of the FAI and that's part of the problem.

If you are a good youngster in Leinster playing rugby you know there's a clear path to get into Leinster and then the international team. If you're a good young footballers in Ireland you're encouraged to go the UK rather than a LOI club as that's less profitable for the club

Yes and no. He did some good stuff early in his reign. The league is financially stable with no clubs going to the wall. But he was bereft of ideas to grow and clubs did it despite him.

Rugby keeps players because of you follow the money abroad you can't play (or rather be contracted to) Ireland. If they allowed a free market the provinces would suffer. On the basis the FAI can't and won't  insist on only LoI players playing for Ireland its apples and oranges.

There is no question that the top LoI clubs have raised their game when it comes to youth development and commanding fees, but there will never be a situation where staying at home will be as lucrative. Thats the reality for all countries beside a big country.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8946 on: March 28, 2021, 02:33:46 PM »
Carty the rugby player was handy in soccer and GAA at 17  but chose rugby. Both soccer and rugby need to broaden the player base. As long as the GAA plug the Dublin model most players from other counties won't win anything. Soccer and rugby have an opportunity.

More people play soccer than football, hurling and rugby combined....

Any figures?

Its aged but there are newer surveys with broadly the same results. On the phone so this will do

https://www.esri.ie/publications/sports-participation-and-health-among-adults-in-ireland

Page 22.

Soccer 13%, 5 a side 4%.. 17% adult male participation.

Football 8%, hurling 5%, rugby not listed as under 1%. So 14%

17 > 14.

Itchy

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8947 on: March 28, 2021, 02:42:25 PM »
People criticing Kenny for playing possession football, what does that mean exactly. That we should play a style that gives the ball back to the opposition? Anyone with a brain in their head yesterday can see the problem, in terms of how we play and the players we have is 1) Our players are technically not as good as they need to be. By that I mean, their speed of thought, their control, pace of pass, vision. The basic skills stuff 2) We lack players with creativity, and that comes back to how the FAI are training kids.

When Mick and Jack and O Neill were playing a longer game, they had players like Quinn, Cascarino, Walters and more recent McGoldrick and Long. We dont even have players like that anymore, so if you are going playing a more direct style who exactly are you kicking the ball up to?

No back to the FAI. I am a coach in soccer and GAA, I've got the FAI D Licence and Level 1 GAA (just paperwork I know). I am not in the big cities so I cant talk to what is happening in Dublin. But here is what the local league of Ireland soccer club do to kids in my area...

1- Tell them to sign a contract to join them at 15 yrs old
2- Tell them they cannot play any other sport - GAA, Rugby etc
3- Tell them they cannot play with their own club anymore
4- Often pluck a kid from a club to come in without friends and expect the parent to drive them 30/40 mile each way 3 times a week to join in their soulless training which is no fun whatsoever.
5 - From 1-4 above I would estimate from my club they have lost 80% off the best kids in my club who just will not go in. If you don't tow the line you are booted out.

The FAI need to stop trying to ape the UK. We are a different country with other sports. We need to find our own way and stop going up against other sport organisations like we are all enemies. My own son is fast approaching this age and he was in these so called "elite" squads. I know from watching his training that they dont have the best kids involved and now I have people telling me my 12 year old son will soon have to make a decision to quit GAA, stop playing with his friends etc etc. This is Ireland lads, community and parish is everything. Why wold I tell my kids to stop all that is good to gamble on the 1 in a million that makes it to a top flight soccer team in the UK?

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8948 on: March 28, 2021, 02:53:17 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

thewobbler

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8949 on: March 28, 2021, 03:03:38 PM »
Excellent post Itchy.

BB the comparison isn’t apt. A county minor squad management takes “control” of their players only after the school football season ends. They’ve then got 6-8 weeks to prepare for a knockout championship match, and for half the intercounty minor players in Ireland that’s the sum of their commitment. And for most of that 6-8 week period they’ll be playing and training with their club team too.

Even for those lucky enough to get two seasons of county minor, there’s limited continuation. The process stops when they’re knocked out. Then starts again the following Feb.

shark

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8950 on: March 28, 2021, 03:09:24 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

My county certainly does. Beggars can’t be choosers.

There is no issue with kids becoming sport specific at a certain age. It has to happen at some point for the most talented, if they want to reach to top.  I’m no expert as to what that age should be, but it certainly shouldn’t be 12 or 13 like is being mentioned above.
I know a few lads who were on the FAI/LOI track as teenagers. The post above about training sessions being no fun is one I have heard from them all. They wanted to make it their #1 sport, but ultimately they just enjoyed it more in their GAA club.

Itchy

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8951 on: March 28, 2021, 03:12:06 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8952 on: March 28, 2021, 03:13:15 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

My county certainly does. Beggars can’t be choosers.

There is no issue with kids becoming sport specific at a certain age. It has to happen at some point for the most talented, if they want to reach to top.  I’m no expert as to what that age should be, but it certainly shouldn’t be 12 or 13 like is being mentioned above.
I know a few lads who were on the FAI/LOI track as teenagers. The post above about training sessions being no fun is one I have heard from them all. They wanted to make it their #1 sport, but ultimately they just enjoyed it more in their GAA club.

I misread and thought you were talking about 15/16 year olds. Agreed 12 is way too young for specialism.

sid waddell

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8953 on: March 28, 2021, 03:15:23 PM »




Players not being able to go to England until 18 is not going to help the Ireland senior team


Why not?
Because the earlier you expose yourself to a higher standard, the more you have a chance of developing your game to a higher level

Robbie Keane was torturing Argentina when he was three months off his 18th birthday - I don't think it would have helped him to be stuck in the League of Ireland until the summer of 1998

Given that Irish youngsters find it harder to thrive in England these days due to the globalisation of the game there, I'm all for improving the League of Ireland as an alternative player pathway, but I don't think we should fool ourselves that it will be a substitute for the traditional pathway of young lads going to England

The reality is that the LOI is probably GM Vauxhall Conference standard - or whatever it's called these days

Rovers and Dundalk would struggle in League Two I think

League Two? What? Barrow, Mansfield and Harrogates league? Be serious.

Young lads going to England fail 98% of the time and end up with nothing. So 98% shouldn't have gone. At least if they stay and fail they have a leaving cert and weren't uprooted. If they are good enough they go at 18 for a fee as a pro.
Dundalk have had players sign for English teams and none of them pulled up trees

Horgan has not set the world alight and he's the most successful of them

Richie Towell lorded it in the LOI and his lot was to become a League One journeyman

Patrick McEleney was the best midfielder in the LOI, he spent six months at Oldham and then chucked it in to come back to Dundalk

David McMillan struggled in Scotland

Sean Maguire tore it up in the LOI but has been fairly average striker for Preston

And these were the best LOI players, the general standard is well below these players

Occasionally in Europe an LOI team can raise their game and beat a team in a cup setting - the system is set up for them to do that because the LOI now plays through the summer - but over a season they'd find it much, much harder

When Rovers and Dundalk reached the groups of the Europa League they were out of their depth

I remember hearing an LOI segment on Off The Ball with Roddy Collins about six or seven years back - Collins was adamant that the LOI was not even up to League Two standard

Irish football people have a vested interest in bigging up the league but the brutal truth is it's crap, and players with ambition have to get out of it as soon as they can if they have real ambition





Baile Brigín 2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #8954 on: March 28, 2021, 03:15:31 PM »
In relation to point 2. Does your county allow minor players to play other sports?

It's not unreasonable if you enter a pro or semi pro acadamy involving a contract that 2 and 3 kick in

I am not sure what they are told but in soccer you effectively sign for a new team (the league of ireland team)so it would be illegal for you to play with your own club. There is a young lad from our GAA club on the county minor team and I see he is still playing soccer with his local team. I am sure at certain times of the year when GAA minor is going into championship that he has to step away but thats a whole other world than signing your name on the dotted line of a contract.

I misunderstood shark - I thought he was referring to late teens. If you are 16 and in the Cork City or Munster acadamy you shouldn't be playing multiple sports. That isn't a thing for 12 year olds