Kerry v Throne AIQF - Saturday July 1st

[Fuzzman]

Really enjoyed listening to the GAA hour interview with Stevie O'Neill. What a player he was. Amazing to hear he had totally stopped playing club football and was only doing a bit of cycling before he made the comeback that time. Still knocking around with the Masters team now. You'd still pay to watch him!

He did start playing with the club again and got back into great form and that's why he was asked to come back for the county. Did you know he wouldn't accept his winners medal that year? Very humble guy.

[joemamas]

WUM are in full force on most blogs, I suppose school must be out in Kerry.
Mod's do every genuine supporter/blogger a favor and cut it out.

[statto]

We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.

The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues?  They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out.  Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level. 

[NotedObserver]

We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.

The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues?  They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out.  Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.

Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park

[trueblue1234]

Really enjoyed listening to the GAA hour interview with Stevie O'Neill. What a player he was. Amazing to hear he had totally stopped playing club football and was only doing a bit of cycling before he made the comeback that time. Still knocking around with the Masters team now. You'd still pay to watch him!

He did start playing with the club again and got back into great form and that's why he was asked to come back for the county. Did you know he wouldn't accept his winners medal that year? Very humble guy.

I was going to say, I thought his club form at the time was part of the reason he was invited back in as he was  racking up the scores.

[square_ball]

We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.

The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues?  They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out.  Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.

Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park

Thats my point. Our bench is grand when we are winning and need to make a few changes in the last 10 to defend a lead. The issue is on Saturday if we are chasing the game with 10/15 minutes to go. We will have no choice but to throw McShane in when we don't know what kind of form in basically because apart from Sludden he is our only forward option on the bench.

[Fuzzman]

Sludden and McGeary were very active on the scoreboard back in '21. Often getting 2 or 3 points each but that has fallen away this year. Also think Petey doesn't seem to be shooting as much as he used to either.
McKernan seems to find himself up front quite a lot in games and has good feet.
Talking of Petey and that great run and shot v Armagh where he hit the post.
I'm surprised we don't try that more often. Remember C.Quinn got a lovely goal this year.
Darragh like his dad, is very good at making clever runs off the ball and if he had more off the ball runners he would have a lot more options.

As I said before, I wish we had more forwards on the sub bench. Imagine having Bradley to come in for last 20 mins.

[NotedObserver]

We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.

The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues?  They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out.  Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.

Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park

Thats my point. Our bench is grand when we are winning and need to make a few changes in the last 10 to defend a lead. The issue is on Saturday if we are chasing the game with 10/15 minutes to go. We will have no choice but to throw McShane in when we don't know what kind of form in basically because apart from Sludden he is our only forward option on the bench.

Is there any chance they will put Burns in front the start and leave Ruairi as a bench option?

[redhandofgod]

We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.

The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues?  They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out.  Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.

Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park

Thats my point. Our bench is grand when we are winning and need to make a few changes in the last 10 to defend a lead. The issue is on Saturday if we are chasing the game with 10/15 minutes to go. We will have no choice but to throw McShane in when we don't know what kind of form in basically because apart from Sludden he is our only forward option on the bench.

Is there any chance they will put Burns in front the start and leave Ruairi as a bench option?

Very good chance this happens, Burns was very good in the league game against Kerry playing in front of Clifford.

[kickingmule]

McShane doesn't become a bad player over night, he can cause serious damage coming off the bench to any team, the lad needs a chance, add to the that... mcgearey [ POTY 21] SLUDDEN MCGleenan, +two young lads O'Donnell, Devlin, and Richard Donnelly.
This bench is every bit as strong as 2021. Bar Canavan and mcshane who were these amazing subs coming  on in 2021???.

[Blowitupref]

Jack O'Connor

'We thought we were done with Peter Canavan, but now he's produced two sons,'

"Well sure, look, we had a fifty fifty chance of getting Tyrone or Monaghan. So it's Tyrone and, yeah, we'll have to prepare accordingly,"

"I never get too excited about that... When I heard it was Tyrone what do you do only just deal with the reality of it? At this stage of the championship anyway there's no easy teams.

"Tyrone certainly will be a tough assignment obviously, because they had a big win the last day above in Ballybofey [against Donegal], which isn't an easy place for any team to go to as we found out the first day of the year this year."

"Well I suppose the Kerry v Tyrone rivalry it's going on twenty years now," O'Connor noted.

"The rivalry started in 2003 and sure, look, I suppose they beat us in three championships '03, '05 and '08. Kerry supporters have a long memory and I was only saying a while ago we thought we were done with Peter Canavan, but now he's produced two sons that are ready to cut loose! It's amazing the way the tradition comes to the fore.

"How would I characterise the rivalry? It's certainly they were getting the better of us back then, but I saw somewhere today that we have beaten Tyrone in three of the last four championship meetings. So hopefully we'll try to keep that trend going."

"There were a lot of mitigating factors in the 2021 All Ireland semi final, that delay and all of it, but the bottom line was Tyrone got three goals on the day and Kerry got no goals and that was the deciding factor.

"This is another year, it's two years on, we'll be trying to put out our best version of ourselves and so will Tyrone, but once the game starts it's about the form you have this year not two years ago."

[statto]

McShane doesn't become a bad player over night, he can cause serious damage coming off the bench to any team, the lad needs a chance, add to the that... mcgearey [ POTY 21] SLUDDEN MCGleenan, +two young lads O'Donnell, Devlin, and Richard Donnelly.
This bench is every bit as strong as 2021. Bar Canavan and mcshane who were these amazing subs coming  on in 2021???.

Subs used: Cathal McShane (1-03, 1f) for Kennedy (43) Tiernan McCann for O'Neill (56) Darragh Canavan for Sludden (64) Ben McDonnell for Kilpartrick (73) Liam Rafferty for Harte (76 mins) Mark Bradley for Sludden (76)

Bradley would be a significant upgrade on what is currently there from a scoring perspective.  Highly unlikely Tyrone can spring 1-3 from one player from the bench at the weekend.  McShane in 2021 was still a real force to be reckoned with but more questions than answers in 2023, same could be said of Sludden( great servant and player at his peak)

[kickingmule]

I would agree Bradley was a good option coming of the bench,  but who's to say Mcshane, Sludden,Mcgearey etc can't hit  rich vain of form mind ya it's not asif the team in general have been ripping it up. So all of a sudden the dynamic changes and we have a serious impact of the bench. Nothing would surprise me anymore regarding Tyrone.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.

Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.

Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.   

Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.

So now you've moved the debate onto the overall merit of that 2021 Tyrone team and not whether the actual result itself against Kerry was a bolt from the blue or a smash and grab. That's a different argument. Tyrone were a semi final team hovering around that sort of level for a good few years under Mickey Harte but never really looked like winning an AI title. Which is no slight given the strength of Dublin during this era but it was just a matter of fact. I thought their chance had gone after they were beaten in the final in 2018. In 2019 they stayed with a very young Kerry side for a good part of the game but were eventually over ran and deservedly beaten in the end. They wouldn't have beaten Dublin in that final in any case imo. After Harte was ousted I don't think anyone bar the most optimistic of Tyrone supporters, thought they could win an AI title certainly in the short term. To that extent it was a big surprise but the Kerry match itself given how strong they had looked that year was to my mind at least, a bit of a bolt from the blue. But none of that really matters anyway as the history books will show that Tyrone won the AI title in 2021 and you really shouldn't care how it happened or how they measure up against other winners.   

Ultimately yellowcard - and this is based on your posts all year - I fear your personal feelings on Tyrone cloud your judgment to an extent that you can't judge things objectively at all. Either that or your football knowledge is horrific, but I'll be charitable and says it's the former. Regardless, we will never agree so I'll just wish Armagh all the best and hope you get the bolts from the blue, smash and grabs, and goals at the right time that will allow you to compete with the best teams.

The poster that said Tyrone by two or Kerry by 12, I can identify with that. Tyrone are capable of doing it but after such a prolonged spell of patchy form it's a big ask and it could conceivably go badly wrong. Lack of depth off the bench would be a worry for me.

[kickingmule]

All that seems to be talked about ongoing at the minute is this amazing strength in depth of certain teams in the pot for Sam, personally I think it's all a load of nonsense, I have yet to see any county blessed in any regard to a strong bench. At the end of the day all teams will have 15 players at any one time on the field of play.