All well and good SF accepting PSNI as a legitimate Police force,but there are ongoing problems with the party and PSNI vehicles judging by experience of Gerry Kelly and Caral Ni Chuilin in N Belfast last night.
Yesterday was the longest day of the year.All down hill from here on.
Gerry was simply reminiscing about the good old days and the long summers' evenings they used to have as young lads round the city.
He was on the grill for 50 yards - Must be true - Gerry says so
Quote from: michaelg on June 22, 2013, 11:34:52 AM
He was on the grill for 50 yards - Must be true - Gerry says so
Judge for yourself, from 4.05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K2juHYzDKs&sns=em
Quote from: Minder on June 22, 2013, 12:50:47 PM
Quote from: michaelg on June 22, 2013, 11:34:52 AM
He was on the grill for 50 yards - Must be true - Gerry says so
Judge for yourself, from 4.05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K2juHYzDKs&sns=em
Case closed - Gerry himself says it was "for at least 100 yards"
Parades Commission determinations (like Willie Frazer's bail conditions) are routinely flaunted with impunity.
f**king pathetic. Loyal Orders do themselves no favours yet time and time again they get away with it.
How do Orangemen keep a straight face?
Quote from: qubdub on June 22, 2013, 02:26:35 PM
f**king pathetic. Loyal Orders do themselves no favours yet time and time again they get away with it.
How do Orangemen keep a straight face?
Enough already !
Why pick on me ?.
Flouted.
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Is there a link to this online? From the video on PSFs YouTube channel, it shows two bands going passed playing hymns.
As for "at least 100 yards", the bomber needs to wind his neck in. Such a laugh. Stand in the way of a police vehicle with its sirens on, the get should have been arrested.
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Is there a link to this online? From the video on PSFs YouTube channel, it shows two bands going passed playing hymns.
As for "at least 100 yards", the bomber needs to wind his neck in. Such a laugh. Stand in the way of a police vehicle with its sirens on, the get should have been arrested.
Was the PC determination not for a single drum beat only? Scum can't help themselves.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 22, 2013, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Is there a link to this online? From the video on PSFs YouTube channel, it shows two bands going passed playing hymns.
As for "at least 100 yards", the bomber needs to wind his neck in. Such a laugh. Stand in the way of a police vehicle with its sirens on, the get should have been arrested.
Was the PC determination not for a single drum beat only? Scum can't help themselves.
To be honest, I have no idea. But playing hymns outside a church is a long way from this alleged spitting etc.
http://panicdots.com/2013/06/get-out-of-the-way-gerry/ (http://panicdots.com/2013/06/get-out-of-the-way-gerry/)
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:50:51 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 22, 2013, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Is there a link to this online? From the video on PSFs YouTube channel, it shows two bands going passed playing hymns.
As for "at least 100 yards", the bomber needs to wind his neck in. Such a laugh. Stand in the way of a police vehicle with its sirens on, the get should have been arrested.
Was the PC determination not for a single drum beat only? Scum can't help themselves.
To be honest, I have no idea. But playing hymns outside a church is a long way from this alleged spitting etc.
http://panicdots.com/2013/06/get-out-of-the-way-gerry/ (http://panicdots.com/2013/06/get-out-of-the-way-gerry/)
Odd. You're a fuckin expert on everything else it seems.
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 22, 2013, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:50:51 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 22, 2013, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Is there a link to this online? From the video on PSFs YouTube channel, it shows two bands going passed playing hymns.
As for "at least 100 yards", the bomber needs to wind his neck in. Such a laugh. Stand in the way of a police vehicle with its sirens on, the get should have been arrested.
Was the PC determination not for a single drum beat only? Scum can't help themselves.
To be honest, I have no idea. But playing hymns outside a church is a long way from this alleged spitting etc.
http://panicdots.com/2013/06/get-out-of-the-way-gerry/ (http://panicdots.com/2013/06/get-out-of-the-way-gerry/)
Odd. You're a fuckin expert on everything else it seems.
How do you work that one out?
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
. Stand in the way of a police vehicle with its sirens on, the get should have been arrested.
Like your mates were when they attacked the PSNI during their protests over a Democratic decision about flying their flag ::)
"the get" is an Elected Public Representative .
Are you still pining for the good oul days when ye wouldn't have any of "them" around the place.?
He should have stood on a zebra crossing.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Tianasquare.jpg)
Quote from: Rossfan on June 22, 2013, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
. Stand in the way of a police vehicle with its sirens on, the get should have been arrested.
Like your mates were when they attacked the PSNI during their protests over a Democratic decision about flying their flag ::)
"the get" is an Elected Public Representative .
Are you still pining for the good oul days when ye wouldn't have any of "them" around the place.?
My mates? Seriously?
When you are on the back foot attack the man.
Thatcher was an elected public representative... Tell me again, what was your opinion of her? Actually, I can't really be arsed - don't bother.
QuoteMy mates? Seriously?
Maybe not mates, they are rather uncouth fellows after all.
Political fellow travellers then in the "great" project that is the British Empire.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 22, 2013, 06:58:23 PM
QuoteMy mates? Seriously?
Maybe not mates, they are rather uncouth fellows after all.
Political fellow travellers then in the "great" project that is the British Empire.
Not quite sure what you are trying to imply but if it is what i think can i reassure you that I'm no snob of the political chattering classes or foot soldier of British Imperialism.
Fair play to you all for your attempts to turn this into a questioning of my political identity rather than keeping it on topic.
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 07:04:11 PM
[your attempts to turn this into a questioning of my political identity rather than keeping it on topic.
Your descriptions of Gerry Kelly might have given us all a fair idea of where your political sympathies lie ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on June 22, 2013, 07:41:23 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 07:04:11 PM
[your attempts to turn this into a questioning of my political identity rather than keeping it on topic.
Your descriptions of Gerry Kelly might have given us all a fair idea of where your political sympathies lie ;)
Yes, because unionists are all flag protesters who pine for "the good oul days". Or "uncouth". Or imperialists. I'm sure there are more to follow before someone backs up anything they say.
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 07:51:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 22, 2013, 07:41:23 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 22, 2013, 07:04:11 PM
[your attempts to turn this into a questioning of my political identity rather than keeping it on topic.
Your descriptions of Gerry Kelly might have given us all a fair idea of where your political sympathies lie ;)
Yes, because unionists are all flag protesters who pine for "the good oul days". Or "uncouth". Or imperialists. I'm sure there are more to follow before someone backs up anything they say.
100% record so far ;D
QuoteNot quite sure what you are trying to imply but if it is what i think can i reassure you that I'm no snob of the political chattering classes or foot soldier of British Imperialism.
I don't intend to imply you were a foot soldier. I accept that you may hold a commission.
unlike with Gerry, the tank didnt stop, more to the point what he standing in the way of a land rover anyway, you supposed to lead by example, cant hardly cry about blocking roads and traffic on the protestant side then do the same himself, is he also breaking the lwas he said was the case with flag protestors?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 22, 2013, 08:30:41 PM
unlike with Gerry, the tank didnt stop, more to the point what he standing in the way of a land rover anyway, you supposed to lead by example, cant hardly cry about blocking roads and traffic on the protestant side then do the same himself, is he also breaking the lwas he said was the case with flag protestors?
First off I would point out to you that the area had already been sealed off to traffic due to the parade so he wasn't blocking any road.
From what I can tell from the video a teenager had been lifted, was in the back of a PSNI landrover and his ma wanted to talk to the cops. GK intervened and according to him, the cops in the first landrover said they'd pull in down the road a bit but instead sped off. The second landrover did likewise. He stood in front of the third one demanding to speak to a commanding officer at which stage the landrover drove at him. It's all on the video. GK probably wasn't in the right but the police hardly were either. You'd think an elected rep, member of the policing board and someone who had some influence within that community would be able to have the police on the ground engage more proactively with him and other reps in the interests of managing situations like this more effectively!
Man V. Land Rover?
Sometimes there's just no allowing for stupidity.
It's wasn't exactly Indiana Jones stuff ... Not 100, not 50,was barely 10 yards from what I can see ... However, 1 yard or 100, the police had no right to advance 1 singe inch with someone standing right against the front of the landrover. It ain't surprising though, I can imagine which side the driver hails from.
As for the Orange Order, pure and simple, scum of the earth, should be banned from parading anywhere never mind the public highway ... How such a sectarian grouping can be allowed to flaunt the law week in, week out, says it all regarding the authorities in charge.
It didn't take long for the Obama/G8 bounce to deflate.
Quote from: balladmaker on June 22, 2013, 11:55:34 PM
It's wasn't exactly Indiana Jones stuff ... Not 100, not 50,was barely 10 yards from what I can see ... However, 1 yard or 100, the police had no right to advance 1 singe inch with someone standing right against the front of the landrover. It ain't surprising though, I can imagine which side the driver hails from.
As for the Orange Order, pure and simple, scum of the earth, should be banned from parading anywhere never mind the public highway ... How such a sectarian grouping can be allowed to flaunt the law week in, week out, says it all regarding the authorities in charge.
It didn't take long for the Obama/G8 bounce to deflate.
You talk about sectarianism as you write a sectarian post?
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
Fair play Gerry K, some balls even for a man his age. Going by that video he single-handedly prevented a major escalation into full scale rioting - and gets no thanks for it.
I'm scratching my head here.
Is it not usually the cops that tell you to "pull in" as opposed to Sinn Fein telling the cops to pull in.
My, oh how the tables have very definitely turned.
The funniest bit for me was when the cop came up to GK and said "I'll check to see if the young fella is in the back of the land rover MR. KELLY."
It used to be the case that it was the cops that asked for your name. Now you can ask the cops for their name and number and they give it to you.
It's changed times boys.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
That's a question I asked yesterday. Bizarrely no one has come up with anything. Strange.
Quote from: Tonto on June 23, 2013, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
That's a question I asked yesterday. Bizarrely no one has come up with anything. Strange.
They have (again) breached the PC determination by not playing a single drum beat, so the FTP and spitting should be moot. They are obviously trying to escalate the situation when there is no need. Repeated breaches, including pissing against the chuch railings, mean they should forfeit any (perceived) right to march down that road. As I said before, scum.
Quote from: Ulick on June 23, 2013, 08:36:58 AM
Fair play Gerry K, some balls even for a man his age. Going by that video he single-handedly prevented a major escalation into full scale rioting - and gets no thanks for it.
Thanks Gerry!
Quote from: Ulick on June 23, 2013, 08:36:58 AM
Fair play Gerry K, some balls even for a man his age.
He's a well-preserved 60!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 23, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: Tonto on June 23, 2013, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
That's a question I asked yesterday. Bizarrely no one has come up with anything. Strange.
They have (again) breached the PC determination by not playing a single drum beat, so the FTP and spitting should be moot.
If it is "moot" why make it up in the first place, thereby undermining your own argument?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 23, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: Tonto on June 23, 2013, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
That's a question I asked yesterday. Bizarrely no one has come up with anything. Strange.
They have (again) breached the PC determination by not playing a single drum beat, so the FTP and spitting should be moot. They are obviously trying to escalate the situation when there is no need. Repeated breaches, including pissing against the chuch railings, mean they should forfeit any (perceived) right to march down that road. As I said before, scum.
True, the single drum beat stipulation was breached, though in all seriousness I can't understand how the playing of hymns going past a church can be deemed to be offensive (hymns...church...there's a connection in there somewhere if you look hard enough).The point about the spitting and the FTP remarks is far from moot. Here you have a spokesman for the residents coming out and making stuff up in a fairly cynical attempt to paint the marchers in the worst possible light. And yet the Orangemen are constantly being berated for not entering into dialogue with the spokesman and his mates. Why would they do that? Why would they want to talk to someone whose naked sectarianism and bigotry is such that he can't stop himself telling lies about the marchers in the absence of any real outrageous behaviour to talk about? (Of course, if someone posts some footage of the spitting and swearing I'll apologise profusely and agree that the marchers are a pack of scumbegs who shouldn't be allowed to set foot on that road).
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
There is footage of them playing and singing the famine song last year marching in a circle outside the chapel with the cameraman being attacked. The band responsible maintained they did nothing wrong even with video evidence. Another bandman also pissed up against St Matthew's last year, so some of them spitting and shouting f**k the Pope on Donegall St isn't exactly beyond the realms of possibility. Considering the hundreds of participants involved I'm sure it's also possible that one or two of them were able to spit and shout their abuse without being filmed! ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 23, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: Tonto on June 23, 2013, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
That's a question I asked yesterday. Bizarrely no one has come up with anything. Strange.
They have (again) breached the PC determination by not playing a single drum beat, so the FTP and spitting should be moot. They are obviously trying to escalate the situation when there is no need. Repeated breaches, including pissing against the chuch railings, mean they should forfeit any (perceived) right to march down that road. As I said before, scum.
. And yet the Orangemen are constantly being berated for not entering into dialogue with the spokesman and his mates. Why would they do that? Why would they want to talk to someone whose naked sectarianism and bigotry is such that he can't stop himself telling lies about the marchers in the absence of any real outrageous behaviour to talk about? (Of course, if someone posts some footage of the spitting and swearing I'll apologise profusely and agree that the marchers are a pack of scumbegs who shouldn't be allowed to set foot on that road).
Hmm, maybe because they're marching right through his community and having it essentially sealed off any time they want to do so? ::)
Here's a video here you seem to have either not seen or decided to forget.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My5cf2zlkpo
Now, as Unionist, can you honestly say you would support, for example, a republican march through your community if a republican band did something similar outside your place of worship a year previous? (Not sure if there is a republican equivalent to the famine song)
Just because there isn't a video of something it's automatically lies? Given what the OO and their marching bands are capable of, as the video shows, I'd say there's a strong chance that what he alleges to have happened did. I again refer to the pissing incident at St Matthew's. There's no video of it, I suppose that was lies too.
They should be made pay for the policing of these parades.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 23, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: Tonto on June 23, 2013, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 06:40:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
They can't just stop at marching past the chapel. They have to spit at it and shout Fcuk the Pope.
They really don't do themselves any favours and only have themselves to blame when they are inevitably told to fcuk off by the parades commission.
Stupid orange bastids.
Any footage of that? There were enough people standing around with camera phones just waiting for the paraders to step out of line, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere. Otherwise the conclusion would have to be that yer man in the republican propaganda video was simply making stuff up, which I'm sure he wouldn't do.
That's a question I asked yesterday. Bizarrely no one has come up with anything. Strange.
They have (again) breached the PC determination by not playing a single drum beat, so the FTP and spitting should be moot. They are obviously trying to escalate the situation when there is no need. Repeated breaches, including pissing against the chuch railings, mean they should forfeit any (perceived) right to march down that road. As I said before, scum.
True, the single drum beat stipulation was breached, though in all seriousness I can't understand how the playing of hymns going past a church can be deemed to be offensive (hymns...church...there's a connection in there somewhere if you look hard enough).The point about the spitting and the FTP remarks is far from moot. Here you have a spokesman for the residents coming out and making stuff up in a fairly cynical attempt to paint the marchers in the worst possible light. And yet the Orangemen are constantly being berated for not entering into dialogue with the spokesman and his mates. Why would they do that? Why would they want to talk to someone whose naked sectarianism and bigotry is such that he can't stop himself telling lies about the marchers in the absence of any real outrageous behaviour to talk about? (Of course, if someone posts some footage of the spitting and swearing I'll apologise profusely and agree that the marchers are a pack of scumbegs who shouldn't be allowed to set foot on that road).
The bands and Orders don't get to make up the rules. They can do as they're bid or stay off the streets. As someone said it is about supremacy and power and control. They desperately want to show they will not be dictated to by residents or the PC. If that's the case they shouldn't be allowed down the road. It is a no lose situation for the OO - if prevented from marching due to repeated breaches they will roll out the usual shite about civil and religious liberties, get a few unsavouries out to make trouble to "enable" some grant aid; if allowed to march they will continue to rub residents noses in it.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 11:18:35 AM
True, the single drum beat stipulation was breached, though in all seriousness I can't understand how the playing of hymns going past a church can be deemed to be offensive (hymns...church...there's a connection in there somewhere if you look hard enough).The point about the spitting and the FTP remarks is far from moot. Here you have a spokesman for the residents coming out and making stuff up in a fairly cynical attempt to paint the marchers in the worst possible light. And yet the Orangemen are constantly being berated for not entering into dialogue with the spokesman and his mates. Why would they do that? Why would they want to talk to someone whose naked sectarianism and bigotry is such that he can't stop himself telling lies about the marchers in the absence of any real outrageous behaviour to talk about? (Of course, if someone posts some footage of the spitting and swearing I'll apologise profusely and agree that the marchers are a pack of scumbegs who shouldn't be allowed to set foot on that road).
Something's cockeyed here. You assume the man is lying because you have seen no video evidence to support his statement. People dealing in good faith usually make the opposite assumption. Assume a statement is correct unless there is evidence to the contrary. Not only do you assume that his statement is a lie, you accuse him of sectarianism for making it. This is on the basis that your knowledge of what must have transpired, though you weren't there, must be superior to that of the person making the claim, purely because of his (cultural) identity. That seems to me to indicate that it's you who's exhibiting sectarian prejudice.
That's not to mention at all the bizarreness of your choice of where to look for sectarian behaviour in the middle of a sectarian Orange march.
Quote from: Hardy on June 23, 2013, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 23, 2013, 11:18:35 AM
True, the single drum beat stipulation was breached, though in all seriousness I can't understand how the playing of hymns going past a church can be deemed to be offensive (hymns...church...there's a connection in there somewhere if you look hard enough).The point about the spitting and the FTP remarks is far from moot. Here you have a spokesman for the residents coming out and making stuff up in a fairly cynical attempt to paint the marchers in the worst possible light. And yet the Orangemen are constantly being berated for not entering into dialogue with the spokesman and his mates. Why would they do that? Why would they want to talk to someone whose naked sectarianism and bigotry is such that he can't stop himself telling lies about the marchers in the absence of any real outrageous behaviour to talk about? (Of course, if someone posts some footage of the spitting and swearing I'll apologise profusely and agree that the marchers are a pack of scumbegs who shouldn't be allowed to set foot on that road).
Something's cockeyed here. You assume the man is lying because you have seen no video evidence to support his statement. People dealing in good faith usually make the opposite assumption. Assume a statement is correct unless there is evidence to the contrary. Not only do you assume that his statement is a lie, you accuse him of sectarianism for making it. This is on the basis that your knowledge of what must have transpired, though you weren't there, must be superior to that of the person making the claim, purely because of his (cultural) identity. That seems to me to indicate that it's you who's exhibiting sectarian prejudice.
That's not to mention at all the bizarreness of your choice of where to look for sectarian behaviour in the middle of a sectarian Orange march.
The world's photographers were assembled at the spot waiting to get a good shot - like, for e.g, a band playing the famine sing, or a bandsman urinating up against church railings. Would they have missed it if bandsmen were effing the pope and spitting at onlookers? Somehow doubt it. But even if the professionals had missed it, how many were standing about with camera phones? Take a look again at the clip of Gerry Kelly arguing with the PSNI and note how many people are filming it on their phones. Think they'd have missed such a spectacular display of bigotry if it had taken place? Na, me neither. As for me exhibiting sectarian prejudice: I'm a north Belfast Catholic, (though I no longer live in north Belfast and don't practice my religion). Can you be guilty of sectarian prejudice against your own? Who knows. Maybe.
So you continue to claim that your knowledge of the events is better than that of the quoted witness, simply because of his identity. And you maintain the bizarre stance of looking for sectarianism in the wrong place, given that the whole raison d'etre of the occasion is a sectarian demonstration.
Yep - that's sectarian and bigoted, no matter who you are.
g a parade went down the town on friday nite in my local, town/village! did i and all the neighbours get out and protest? no, cause we dont give a damn and have better things to do. nothing worse than trying to go out of your way to be offended. How many of these protesters especially the teenagers would actually attend the chapel the parade is marching by!!
Quote from: Hardy on June 23, 2013, 02:24:44 PM
So you continue to claim that your knowledge of the events is better than that of the quoted witness, simply because of his identity. And you maintain the bizarre stance of looking for sectarianism in the wrong place, given that the whole raison d'etre of the occasion is a sectarian demonstration.
Yep - that's sectarian and bigoted, no matter who you are.
Nope, simply because what he's saying is obviously untrue. Take a look again at the clip and count how many photographers you can see taking pictures (round about 1.12 in, for e.g). Seriously, are you telling me that all these professionals missed the one thing they came for?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K2juHYzDKs&sns=em
And the whole raison d'etre
is a sectarian demonstration, but not all the sectarian demonstrators are wearing orange collarettes. Some turned up wearing pyjamas and Celtic football strips.
Just watched the video clip myself and frankly I'm infuriated. The driver of that police vehicle should not have budged an inch. Why, in God's name did he consider that a clever move? What would have happened had Kelly lost his grip and slipped? At the same time, the one image of the flag protest that lingers in my mind is the sight of a loyalist protester up on the bonnet of the police vehicle beating the crap out of the windscreen with the butt end of a flag pole. And what happened to that lout at that instant? Nothing. It is these small but significant events that help shape public perception of fairness.
Quote from: hardstation on June 23, 2013, 07:12:11 PM
The driver of thon jeep will be very lucky to keep his job & drivers licence IMO.
You cannot just ram a fella who poses no threat to you.
feck it, twas only Gerry Kelly.
Bad week for PSNI land rovers.Playing the Birdy Song at Lough Erne on Tuesday in public, and carting away Sinn Fein Ministers without their consent both posed a serious risk of wide scale public disorder.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 23, 2013, 03:24:43 PM
g a parade went down the town on friday nite in my local, town/village! did i and all the neighbours get out and protest? no, cause we dont give a damn and have better things to do. nothing worse than trying to go out of your way to be offended. How many of these protesters especially the teenagers would actually attend the chapel the parade is marching by!!
I'd be in agreement with you Wildweasel to a point. I happened to be in the holy lands around the time of the lower Ormeau road residents and the Ballynafeigh lodge exercising their right to march passed the area to the main orange 'demonstration' on the 12th.
The RUC parked two landrovers back to back at the top of each of the streets of the lower ormeau from about 7AM and these stayed in place until some time after 9.30 to allow the Ballynafeigh lodge to walk passed. No one was allowed to get out of the lower Ormeau even to walk to the shops until all this transpired.
No wonder the residents there found it hard to stomach.
Quote from: hardstation on June 23, 2013, 07:12:11 PM
The driver of thon jeep will be very lucky to keep his job & drivers licence IMO.
You cannot just ram a fella who poses no threat to you.
I'd say he could get a promotion.
Kelly was lucky he only got a wee spin on the bonnet.
Down the years, there were plenty of lads and ladies who weren't as fortunate even though they posed little or no threat whatsoever.
Fair play to Alban Magennis, he called it as it was. Gerry Kelly was with others trying to keep the situation calm. I've no doubt the Police Officer thought he was doing the correct thing but it could have been so much worse. I couldn't see SF support for policing surviving the serious injury or death of an MLA or indeed a resident. That said the OO and their followers just can't help themselves. Whilst I see know evidence of the FTP or spitting allegations, the way they play hymns is clearly designed to annoy. The beating of the drums and general playing turn so called religious songs into something entirely different. What is clear not just from Unionist reaction to this but in general over the last number of years is that to them a shared future can only be on loyalist terms. They consider the Croppies defeated and have no idea what real equality or parity of esteem means. That said what was the wee boys ma doing out in her PJ's perhaps if she had been out of bed earlier he wouldn't have been arrested.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 24, 2013, 01:01:01 PM
Fair play to Alban Magennis, he called it as it was. Gerry Kelly was with others trying to keep the situation calm. I've no doubt the Police Officer thought he was doing the correct thing but it could have been so much worse. I couldn't see SF support for policing surviving the serious injury or death of an MLA or indeed a resident. That said the OO and their followers just can't help themselves. Whilst I see know evidence of the FTP or spitting allegations, the way they play hymns is clearly designed to annoy. The beating of the drums and general playing turn so called religious songs into something entirely different. What is clear not just from Unionist reaction to this but in general over the last number of years is that to them a shared future can only be on loyalist terms. They consider the Croppies defeated and have no idea what real equality or parity of esteem means. That said what was the wee boys ma doing out in her PJ's perhaps if she had been out of bed earlier he wouldn't have been arrested.
Sinn Fein's support for policing is well founded now. It's here to stay.
Not if they lose the support of their voters.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 24, 2013, 01:03:19 PM
Not if they lose the support of their voters.
That's never going to happen no matter what might have happened Kelly on Friday night.
SF have a form grip on their very loyal electorate hepled by the fact that the SDLP are in trouble.
Police now investigating Gerry for obstruction.
I think he was merely practicing for the mother of all showdowns with the PSNI Water Cannon.
Sinn Fein should pull out of the Stormount deal. Then the Irish and British governments would have to run the mad house. The prospect then would be no more marches for anyone. That would be some craic.
Quote from: JUst retired on June 25, 2013, 07:11:19 AM
Sinn Fein should pull out of the Stormount deal. .
[/quote
That ain't gonna happen anytime soon ;)
Without a private army what exactly would be the point of SF then?
Well, well, how much further down is there for the Mighty to fall?
Thirty years ago, Republicans would have been using bombs and bullets to protect themselves from Police oppression.
Even 15 years ago (i.e. post-Ceasefire), it would have been bricks and barricades.
Yet now the best they can do is to send Gerry Kelly along to make a complete dick of himself on the bonnet of a police landrover, as he attempts to "spring" some wee spide who got lifted, and who was already half way to the Station in another landrover.
This from a man who assured us all that when the GFA was implemented and he got appointed to the Police Board etc, SF would then be in a position to put an end to political policing and oppression of Republicans etc.
Yet where is he now? When SF support the police, he/they are "sellouts", But when they stand up to them, they are compromising their commitment to the new system of Law and Order which they had negotiated.
And worst of all, poor Gerry appears to consider himself in greater danger on the front of a landrover driven by the PSNI, than he would have been in the back of one, in the days when the RUC were after him.
Still, I'm sure he can console himself with the fact that SF's ability to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheep who vote for them appears undiminished.
Baaa.
P.S. Any truth in the rumour that the PSNI have presented Carul Nee Gollum with a bill from the garage for the damage she caused when she got her teeth tangled in the grill on the front of another landrover?
Having read through a few number of your posts Evil Genius I've noticed a trend.
Why do you come on here solely to criticise (in a pathetic, condescending and completely immature manner) Sinn Fein?
Do you think we're all Sinn Fein voters? (I suppose you're one of these middle class Unionist snobs that doesn't vote?)
Have you somehow mistaken this for a Republican website?
Are you fishing for some specific sort of reaction?
Is proper mature commentary beyond you? Surely you could make your point without resorting to making jibes about someone's physical appearance?
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PM
Having read through a few number of your posts Evil Genius I've noticed a trend.
So I'm consistent, am I? Thank you.
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMWhy do you come on here solely to criticise (in a pathetic, condescending and completely immature manner) Sinn Fein?
You sound like you've answered your own question. Congratulations.
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMDo you think we're all Sinn Fein voters?
No. But keep trying.
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PM(I suppose you're one of these middle class Unionist snobs that doesn't vote?)
Wrong again. And it's "one of
those middle class Unionist snobs
who don't vote", by the way. (I am quite snobby about language, I'll give you that)
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMHave you somehow mistaken this for a Republican website?
No. Though considering the nature of the replies I usually get, I think I could be forgiven for making that mistake.
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMAre you fishing for some specific sort of reaction?
Well I do hope for respondants who address the substance of what I post, rather than launching
ad hominem attacks on me, but I guess that's the nature of Message Boards like these - you can't screen out the dicks.
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMIs proper mature commentary beyond you? Surely you could make your point without resorting to making jibes about someone's physical appearance?
Well I guess I could, but that would deprive people of the excuse to avoid addressing the meat of my argument (Kelly) and instead concentrate on the gristle (Ni Chuilin).
And without that, where would the likes of you be?
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMWhy do you come on here solely to criticise (in a pathetic, condescending and completely immature manner) Sinn Fein?
You sound like you've answered your own question. Congratulations.
So you don't deny being pathetic, condescending and immature when
continuously criticising Sinn Fein posting on gaaboard.com?
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMDo you think we're all Sinn Fein voters?
No. But keep trying.
Keep trying what? One could easily be forgiven for thinking that you do, considering all you seem to do is post about Sinn Fein... and so little about
GAA.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PM(I suppose you're one of these middle class Unionist snobs that doesn't vote?)
Wrong again. And it's "one of those middle class Unionist snobs who don't vote", by the way. (I am quite snobby about language, I'll give you that)
At least you admit you're a snob. (While we're appraising each other's grammar, I should point out that it is poor English to start a sentence with the word 'And'...but you already knew that)
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMHave you somehow mistaken this for a Republican website?
No. Though considering the nature of the replies I usually get, I think I could be forgiven for making that mistake.
Well there are clearly some Republican posters on here. Like I have already said, your commentary is almost solely concentrated on Sinn Fein-bashing.
Others engage in it as well - as is their/your right. But they also engage in other
GAA related discussion. You don't.
So forgive me for getting the impression that you think you're posting on an IRA/Sinn Fein forum.
Also forgive me for finding it slightly baffling that someone with no perceptible interesting in playing, watching or discussing GAA would log onto a GAA forum; (one that is predominated by GAA news and discussion) and spend almost his entirety on the forum posting in the General Discussion thread. (In fact I find it most odd - The only other instance in which I have witnessed such behaviour is from a deluded pro-Israeli poster who keeps watch on the Gaza thread)
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMAre you fishing for some specific sort of reaction?
Well I do hope for respondants who address the substance of what I post, rather than launching ad hominem attacks on me, but I guess that's the nature of Message Boards like these - you can't screen out the dicks.
Amen to that. (Oh, and the correct spelling is
respondent)
Though I must point out what you say here is contradictory to your point below. How can anyone attempt to address the 'substance' of your commentary when you choose to engage in petty insults?
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMIs proper mature commentary beyond you? Surely you could make your point without resorting to making jibes about someone's physical appearance?
Well I guess I could, but that would deprive people of the excuse to avoid addressing the meat of my argument (Kelly) and instead concentrate on the gristle (Ni Chuilin).
My, how astute of you.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
And without that, where would the likes of you be?
Surely by now after almost 4,000 posts the novelty of trolling has worn off for you? I mean even you must be tired of the constant monotony that is the synonymous with your posts?
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 03:46:52 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMWhy do you come on here solely to criticise (in a pathetic, condescending and completely immature manner) Sinn Fein?
You sound like you've answered your own question. Congratulations.
So you don't deny being pathetic, condescending and immature when continuously criticising Sinn Fein posting on gaaboard.com?
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMDo you think we're all Sinn Fein voters?
No. But keep trying.
Keep trying what? One could easily be forgiven for thinking that you do, considering all you seem to do is post about Sinn Fein... and so little about GAA.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PM(I suppose you're one of these middle class Unionist snobs that doesn't vote?)
Wrong again. And it's "one of those middle class Unionist snobs who don't vote", by the way. (I am quite snobby about language, I'll give you that)
At least you admit you're a snob. (While we're appraising each other's grammar, I should point out that it is poor English to start a sentence with the word 'And'...but you already knew that)
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMHave you somehow mistaken this for a Republican website?
No. Though considering the nature of the replies I usually get, I think I could be forgiven for making that mistake.
Well there are clearly some Republican posters on here. Like I have already said, your commentary is almost solely concentrated on Sinn Fein-bashing.
Others engage in it as well - as is their/your right. But they also engage in other GAA related discussion. You don't. So forgive me for getting the impression that you think you're posting on an IRA/Sinn Fein forum.
Also forgive me for finding it slightly baffling that someone with no perceptible interesting in playing, watching or discussing GAA would log onto a GAA forum; (one that is predominated by GAA news and discussion) and spend almost his entirety on the forum posting in the General Discussion thread. (In fact I find it most odd - The only other instance in which I have witnessed such behaviour is from a deluded pro-Israeli poster who keeps watch on the Gaza thread)
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMAre you fishing for some specific sort of reaction?
Well I do hope for respondants who address the substance of what I post, rather than launching ad hominem attacks on me, but I guess that's the nature of Message Boards like these - you can't screen out the dicks.
Amen to that. (Oh, and the correct spelling is respondent)
Though I must point out what you say here is contradictory to your point below. How can anyone attempt to address the 'substance' of your commentary when you choose to engage in petty insults?
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMIs proper mature commentary beyond you? Surely you could make your point without resorting to making jibes about someone's physical appearance?
Well I guess I could, but that would deprive people of the excuse to avoid addressing the meat of my argument (Kelly) and instead concentrate on the gristle (Ni Chuilin).
My, how astute of you.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
And without that, where would the likes of you be?
Surely by now after almost 4,000 posts the novelty of trolling has worn off for you? I mean even you must be tired of the constant monotony that is the synonymous with your posts?
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT.......................
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 03:46:52 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMWhy do you come on here solely to criticise (in a pathetic, condescending and completely immature manner) Sinn Fein?
You sound like you've answered your own question. Congratulations.
So you don't deny being pathetic, condescending and immature when continuously criticising Sinn Fein posting on gaaboard.com?
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMDo you think we're all Sinn Fein voters?
No. But keep trying.
Keep trying what? One could easily be forgiven for thinking that you do, considering all you seem to do is post about Sinn Fein... and so little about GAA.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PM(I suppose you're one of these middle class Unionist snobs that doesn't vote?)
Wrong again. And it's "one of those middle class Unionist snobs who don't vote", by the way. (I am quite snobby about language, I'll give you that)
At least you admit you're a snob. (While we're appraising each other's grammar, I should point out that it is poor English to start a sentence with the word 'And'...but you already knew that)
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMHave you somehow mistaken this for a Republican website?
No. Though considering the nature of the replies I usually get, I think I could be forgiven for making that mistake.
Well there are clearly some Republican posters on here. Like I have already said, your commentary is almost solely concentrated on Sinn Fein-bashing.
Others engage in it as well - as is their/your right. But they also engage in other GAA related discussion. You don't. So forgive me for getting the impression that you think you're posting on an IRA/Sinn Fein forum.
Also forgive me for finding it slightly baffling that someone with no perceptible interesting in playing, watching or discussing GAA would log onto a GAA forum; (one that is predominated by GAA news and discussion) and spend almost his entirety on the forum posting in the General Discussion thread. (In fact I find it most odd - The only other instance in which I have witnessed such behaviour is from a deluded pro-Israeli poster who keeps watch on the Gaza thread)
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMAre you fishing for some specific sort of reaction?
Well I do hope for respondants who address the substance of what I post, rather than launching ad hominem attacks on me, but I guess that's the nature of Message Boards like these - you can't screen out the dicks.
Amen to that. (Oh, and the correct spelling is respondent)
Though I must point out what you say here is contradictory to your point below. How can anyone attempt to address the 'substance' of your commentary when you choose to engage in petty insults?
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: qubdub on June 25, 2013, 02:18:07 PMIs proper mature commentary beyond you? Surely you could make your point without resorting to making jibes about someone's physical appearance?
Well I guess I could, but that would deprive people of the excuse to avoid addressing the meat of my argument (Kelly) and instead concentrate on the gristle (Ni Chuilin).
My, how astute of you.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
And without that, where would the likes of you be?
Surely by now after almost 4,000 posts the novelty of trolling has worn off for you? I mean even you must be tired of the constant monotony that is the synonymous with your posts?
Forgive me for being obtuse, but does that all mean you agree or disagree with my thesis that the very policing set-up which SF helped negotiate under the GFA serves only to confine, rather than empower them?
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks.
+1
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the policing of events the other day (and you may assume I disagree somewhat with your analysis!), that was not my point.
Rather it was that SF assured their supporters that under the new GFA which they agreed, the experience of Republicans of policing would be very different from previously.
Yet now that it's all bedded-in, when we see the police go to lift some wee Republican scrote for acting the maggot over an Orange parade, Gerry Kelly, a senior SF figure, MLA and member of the Policing Board etc, is publicly exposed as being an impotent dickhead.
Was that what "The Struggle" was all about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs)
A lot of chat on here and on the media from unionist sources about Gerry Kelly and about this 16 year old lad who was arrested. These usual unionist sources seem totally oblivious however, to the mass law breaking of the loyalist bands on the day. Their silence on that one is deafening. As always, unionist demands of respect for law and order apply only to the croppies.
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 06:59:18 PM
A lot of chat on here and on the media from unionist sources about Gerry Kelly and about this 16 year old lad who was arrested.
Er, Kelly's interaction with the PSNI was over the 16 y.o.
And it was this made him look a dick.
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 06:59:18 PMThese usual unionist sources seem totally oblivious however, to the mass law breaking of the loyalist bands on the day. Their silence on that one is deafening. As always, unionist demands of respect for law and order apply only to the croppies.
Whataboutery.
This thread is about the Kelly/Landrover spat.
I suspect there may be other threads which deal with Policing and Parades etc.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 06:59:18 PM
A lot of chat on here and on the media from unionist sources about Gerry Kelly and about this 16 year old lad who was arrested.
Er, Kelly's interaction with the PSNI was over the 16 y.o.
And it was this made him look a dick.
So we can only talk a specific event without allowing reference to the wider events which led directly to it? I suppose that's the conveniently standard unionist tactic alright!
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on June 25, 2013, 06:59:18 PMThese usual unionist sources seem totally oblivious however, to the mass law breaking of the loyalist bands on the day. Their silence on that one is deafening. As always, unionist demands of respect for law and order apply only to the croppies.
Whataboutery.
This thread is about the Kelly/Landrover spat.
I did say unionists both "here
AND on the media". I didn't realise Peter Robinson/JimAllister/Mike Nesbitt etc could only comment on issues which have currently have threads on gaaboard.com. As I said, their silence on the mass law breaking by the bands is absolutely deafening.
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
I suspect there may be other threads which deal with Policing and Parades etc.
And if there were, I'm sure you would be all over such threads, busily condemning the behaviour of the bands for breaking the law in full view of the police yet again at the weekend.....Some chance!
Oh the topic of Gerry kelly popped up today, i think to a man we agree he make a real dick of himself, you cant cry for months about protestors blocking roads and should be arrested and police enforce the law, when the shoe is on the foot he is of the case the same law does not apply to him, if we blocked a police land rover odds on we be arrested! Gerry mistakenly thinks that cause he is in stormont and the policing board the police have to answer him on the streets, thats is not the law here, you still have to go through correct procedures, though our gerry think he still above the law
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the policing of events the other day (and you may assume I disagree somewhat with your analysis!), that was not my point.
Rather it was that SF assured their supporters that under the new GFA which they agreed, the experience of Republicans of policing would be very different from previously.
Yet now that it's all bedded-in, when we see the police go to lift some wee Republican scrote for acting the maggot over an Orange parade, Gerry Kelly, a senior SF figure, MLA and member of the Policing Board etc, is publicly exposed as being an impotent d**khead.
Was that what "The Struggle" was all about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs)
Did you witness what happened to this 'wee republican scrote', or what he did? Did you ask him his political views after or are you just assuming?
If you had have said 'sc**bag' and left any political descriptive out of it that would have been fine. But your addition of the 'republican', as if it's the definition of a republican act to, 'act the maggot' (the charge he will be brought up on in court, no doubt).
Whatever the story was, the police driver should be getting more criticism than Gerry Kelly. If he was actually obstructing arrest then I'm pretty sure the riot squad would have had something to say or do about it.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2013, 09:22:57 PM
Oh the topic of Gerry kelly popped up today, i think to a man we agree he make a real dick of himself, you cant cry for months about protestors blocking roads and should be arrested and police enforce the law, when the shoe is on the foot he is of the case the same law does not apply to him, if we blocked a police land rover odds on we be arrested! Gerry mistakenly thinks that cause he is in stormont and the policing board the police have to answer him on the streets, thats is not the law here, you still have to go through correct procedures, though our gerry think he still above the law
The PSNi are public servants...and as such are answerable (supposedly) don't forget that....Gerry Kelly is an elected representative and has the right to challenge the police behaviour.
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 09:43:55 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2013, 09:22:57 PM
Oh the topic of Gerry kelly popped up today, i think to a man we agree he make a real dick of himself, you cant cry for months about protestors blocking roads and should be arrested and police enforce the law, when the shoe is on the foot he is of the case the same law does not apply to him, if we blocked a police land rover odds on we be arrested! Gerry mistakenly thinks that cause he is in stormont and the policing board the police have to answer him on the streets, thats is not the law here, you still have to go through correct procedures, though our gerry think he still above the law
The PSNi are public servants...and as such are answerable (supposedly) don't forget that....Gerry Kelly is an elected representative and has the right to challenge the police behaviour.
Yes, but there are ways and means of challenging.
he cant challenge them directly in the middle of an operation apparently, the problem here is, elected representatives think they can butt in and make someone accountability on the spot, that law doesnt not exist here, never has!
Can we all not agree that both GK and the driver were at fault and move on?
EG, I've never had any sense of affiliation to SF, my closer connection being to the SDLP (though in that regard I feel a lot like Yann Martel's Pi adrift on flimsy raft attached to a lifeboat itself afloat on a wide wide sea).
Anyway, I was wondering whether, in your eyes, SF, or a representative of that group, is ever capable of commendable action or, instead, are they forever doomed to be balaclava-wearing armalite-toting terrorists? I ask this in a week in which Nelson Mandela lies in a South African hospital bed in serious condition. Do you see him as a vessel of peace or merely a perpetual ANC militant for whom Robben Island was his just desserts?
I have no particular link to or gra for Gerry Kelly, but I don't understand your disdain for him or your need to call him a d@*khead. Going on nothing other than the video footage of the incident, I see an elected official acting in the interest of his constituents and defusing an otherwise volatile situation. He, quite properly in my view, was seeking to discover what had happened to the kid who had been lifted but, more importantly, was asserting himself as a community leader, thereby cooling off a potentially explosive scenario. That's what he was supposed to do, wasn't it? The only chance of it getting out of hand came not from his standing in front of the Land Rover but from the idiotic driver's imbecilic urge to be a bulldozer-driving Mario Andretti.
As I see it, Kelly's actions were proper, reminiscent of my young days around Armagh when SDLP councillers had to intervene on behalf of mothers whose children had been lifted by the police, staving off impending riots.
Contrast his actions in dampening an incendiary situation with one William Fraser's bullhorn-wielding rabble-rousing antics outside Belfast City Hall around Christmas. You're entitled to criticize SF, or anyone else for that matter, but I ask you to curb your exuberance when it's unwarranted.
On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical. Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 25, 2013, 09:45:46 PM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 09:43:55 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2013, 09:22:57 PM
Oh the topic of Gerry kelly popped up today, i think to a man we agree he make a real dick of himself, you cant cry for months about protestors blocking roads and should be arrested and police enforce the law, when the shoe is on the foot he is of the case the same law does not apply to him, if we blocked a police land rover odds on we be arrested! Gerry mistakenly thinks that cause he is in stormont and the policing board the police have to answer him on the streets, thats is not the law here, you still have to go through correct procedures, though our gerry think he still above the law
The PSNi are public servants...and as such are answerable (supposedly) don't forget that....Gerry Kelly is an elected representative and has the right to challenge the police behaviour.
Yes, but there are ways and means of challenging.
Like making a request to speak to an officer in charge, and giving the police in the landrover the opportunity to pull in when those inside it said they would? Only to see the landrover speed off? Had the police not lied in that moment, would Gerry Kelly have ended up on the grill of a landrover? I think not.
Had he not stood in front of it he wouldn't have ended up there either. When (or indeed if) the police lied, was that the best way he could have dealt with it? Could he not have just looked for the officer in charge, as he subsequently did? After all, the landrover with the lad who was arrested was gone by that stage so what was the point in stopping another one?
Michaelg, it was due to the driver of the landrover "moving on" that caused the problem in the first place.
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 25, 2013, 10:08:45 PM
EG, I've never had any sense of affiliation to SF, my closer connection being to the SDLP (though in that regard I feel a lot like Yann Martel's Pi adrift on flimsy raft attached to a lifeboat itself afloat on a wide wide sea).
Anyway, I was wondering whether, in your eyes, SF, or a representative of that group, is ever capable of commendable action or, instead, are they forever doomed to be balaclava-wearing armalite-toting terrorists? I ask this in a week in which Nelson Mandela lies in a South African hospital bed in serious condition. Do you see him as a vessel of peace or merely a perpetual ANC militant for whom Robben Island was his just desserts?
I have no particular link to or gra for Gerry Kelly, but I don't understand your disdain for him or your need to call him a d@*khead. Going on nothing other than the video footage of the incident, I see an elected official acting in the interest of his constituents and defusing an otherwise volatile situation. He, quite properly in my view, was seeking to discover what had happened to the kid who had been lifted but, more importantly, was asserting himself as a community leader, thereby cooling off a potentially explosive scenario. That's what he was supposed to do, wasn't it? The only chance of it getting out of hand came not from his standing in front of the Land Rover but from the idiotic driver's imbecilic urge to be a bulldozer-driving Mario Andretti.
As I see it, Kelly's actions were proper, reminiscent of my young days around Armagh when SDLP councillers had to intervene on behalf of mothers whose children had been lifted by the police, staving off impending riots.
Contrast his actions in dampening an incendiary situation with one William Fraser's bullhorn-wielding rabble-rousing antics outside Belfast City Hall around Christmas. You're entitled to criticize SF, or anyone else for that matter, but I ask you to curb your exuberance when it's unwarranted.
On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical. Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?
I would agree with a lot of what you say here and the fact that Alban Magennis backed him speaks volumes.
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 25, 2013, 10:08:45 PM
EG, I've never had any sense of affiliation to SF, my closer connection being to the SDLP (though in that regard I feel a lot like Yann Martel's Pi adrift on flimsy raft attached to a lifeboat itself afloat on a wide wide sea).
Anyway, I was wondering whether, in your eyes, SF, or a representative of that group, is ever capable of commendable action or, instead, are they forever doomed to be balaclava-wearing armalite-toting terrorists? I ask this in a week in which Nelson Mandela lies in a South African hospital bed in serious condition. Do you see him as a vessel of peace or merely a perpetual ANC militant for whom Robben Island was his just desserts?
I have no particular link to or gra for Gerry Kelly, but I don't understand your disdain for him or your need to call him a d@*khead. Going on nothing other than the video footage of the incident, I see an elected official acting in the interest of his constituents and defusing an otherwise volatile situation. He, quite properly in my view, was seeking to discover what had happened to the kid who had been lifted but, more importantly, was asserting himself as a community leader, thereby cooling off a potentially explosive scenario. That's what he was supposed to do, wasn't it? The only chance of it getting out of hand came not from his standing in front of the Land Rover but from the idiotic driver's imbecilic urge to be a bulldozer-driving Mario Andretti.
As I see it, Kelly's actions were proper, reminiscent of my young days around Armagh when SDLP councillers had to intervene on behalf of mothers whose children had been lifted by the police, staving off impending riots.
Contrast his actions in dampening an incendiary situation with one William Fraser's bullhorn-wielding rabble-rousing antics outside Belfast City Hall around Christmas. You're entitled to criticize SF, or anyone else for that matter, but I ask you to curb your exuberance when it's unwarranted.
On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical. Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?
IIRC EG's little sabbatical began around the time of the fleg protests. I.e. Round about the time when he may have had a few difficult questions to answer.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.
So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 25, 2013, 01:58:29 PM
Well, well, how much further down is there for the Mighty to fall?
Thirty years ago, Republicans would have been using bombs and bullets to protect themselves from Police oppression.
Even 15 years ago (i.e. post-Ceasefire), it would have been bricks and barricades.
Yet now the best they can do is to send Gerry Kelly along to make a complete dick of himself on the bonnet of a police landrover, as he attempts to "spring" some wee spide who got lifted, and who was already half way to the Station in another landrover.
This from a man who assured us all that when the GFA was implemented and he got appointed to the Police Board etc, SF would then be in a position to put an end to political policing and oppression of Republicans etc.
Yet where is he now? When SF support the police, he/they are "sellouts", But when they stand up to them, they are compromising their commitment to the new system of Law and Order which they had negotiated.
And worst of all, poor Gerry appears to consider himself in greater danger on the front of a landrover driven by the PSNI, than he would have been in the back of one, in the days when the RUC were after him.
Still, I'm sure he can console himself with the fact that SF's ability to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheep who vote for them appears undiminished.
Baaa.
P.S. Any truth in the rumour that the PSNI have presented Carul Nee Gollum with a bill from the garage for the damage she caused when she got her teeth tangled in the grill on the front of another landrover?
Folks, I haven't posted here for years but I do pay the odd flying visit ..... I find it hard to believe that any of you give the above troll the time of day ... He has been jumping in and out of here for ages at his own convenience, trying to get a reaction and lapping it up every time he gets it.
Surely you all noticed that he conveniently disappeared last December when all the flag protests were on, bided his time and has just recently snuck back in when things have died down only to resume his bitter little rants against anything Nationalist/Republican (dare I say Catholic) again. He hadn't the balls to stay about when some flak may have came his way so he waited patiently, probably still reading but not logging on or replying.
He gets a kick out of coming on here and winding ... Don't fall for it.. take this bitter little mans kicks away and he will soon wither up and die!!
I know its only a suggestion and its not easy not to reply to idiots like this but please have a bit of sense and don't feed this particularly nasty and intentionally hateful little troll !! ...
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 25, 2013, 10:08:45 PM
On a separate note, welcome back from your sabbatical. Like buzzards returning to Hinckley or swallows to Capistrano heralding the onset of spring, is it mere coincidence that your return overlaps with the kick-off of marching season?
That's deep sh1t, man.
Quote from: Count 10 on June 26, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.
So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine ::)
When argument fails resort to insults. There is nothing half witted about the rule of law. The PSNI are no worse than police forces across the world including the Garda...Humans in organisations make mistakes. They may not be perfect but its a big improvement and they are moving forward. If you can articulate where you disagree that would make for debate, but lay off the insults.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 26, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.
So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine ::)
When argument fails resort to insults. There is nothing half witted about the rule of law. The PSNI are no worse than police forces across the world including the Garda...Humans in organisations make mistakes. They may not be perfect but its a big improvement and they are moving forward. If you can articulate where you disagree that would make for debate, but lay off the insults.
Ok enlighten me...what do you mean when you say
the PSNI do a great job on the whole
Malachi O'Doherty's view:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/what-did-gerry-kelly-think-he-was-doing-29369602.html
Quote from: Myles Na G. on June 27, 2013, 05:11:59 PM
Malachi O'Doherty's view:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debateni/blogs/what-did-gerry-kelly-think-he-was-doing-29369602.html
Malachi "content with the union" O'Doherty in Criticism of Gerry Kelly Shocker!! :o
Quote from: Count 10 on June 27, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 26, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.
So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine ::)
When argument fails resort to insults. There is nothing half witted about the rule of law. The PSNI are no worse than police forces across the world including the Garda...Humans in organisations make mistakes. They may not be perfect but its a big improvement and they are moving forward. If you can articulate where you disagree that would make for debate, but lay off the insults.
Ok enlighten me...what do you mean when you say the PSNI do a great job on the whole
No point in continuing a debate, you have made up your mind, but God forbid you are robbed and beaten, or knocked down by a bus...who will you call, assuming you are not dead? The CIRA?
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 01, 2013, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 27, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 26, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.
So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine ::)
When argument fails resort to insults. There is nothing half witted about the rule of law. The PSNI are no worse than police forces across the world including the Garda...Humans in organisations make mistakes. They may not be perfect but its a big improvement and they are moving forward. If you can articulate where you disagree that would make for debate, but lay off the insults.
Ok enlighten me...what do you mean when you say the PSNI do a great job on the whole
No point in continuing a debate, you have made up your mind, but God forbid you are robbed and beaten, or knocked down by a bus...who will you call, assuming you are not dead? The CIRA?
4 days to come up with that ;D...don't give up your day job 8)...by the way what age are you? about 12 I'd guess ;D
Quote from: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 01, 2013, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 27, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2013, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 26, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on June 25, 2013, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 25, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
I'm not a SF Loyalist like Nally, however I do not believe that SF are any more empowered or confined by the Police Service than any of the rest of us. All Police services need to be held to account, but they can also operate within the authority granted to them by the laws they enforce. I've watched the GK video on numerous occasions now and whilst he in my opinion is a little over aggressive in his manner, like Alban Magennis I can see the situation and the tensions and what he was trying to avoid. The question must be rightly asked why arrest one 16 yo for provocative behaviour whilst ignoring the similar behaviour of the Brethren and the bands. A misjudgement by the officer concerned, and we all an make mistakes. In this instance it was compounded by the officer telling GK he would pull in but then doing the opposite...why lie? Just tell GK I'll see you down the nick. On the face of it the arrest was in contravention of police tactics over flags, and in that volatile environment could have led to violence being perceived by that community as bias. Context is everything. Personally I believe the PSNI do a great job on the whole. They don't get it all right, however you start losing the trust, sparse as it is of working class republican areas and SF support for Policing becomes more difficult to maintain.
I am not a SF voter but that in bold is absolute bollocks. Great job my arse.....they facilitated the loyalist flag protests...did not police it...and claimed it was for the greater good..bullshit. They are a bunch of halfwits with no clue...try ringing them if someone was breaking into your house...sorry no cars available...yet they can have 4 unmarked cars, 2 marked cars, 2 paddy wagons, 4 landrovers at the shambles in Armagh at chucking out time!
As I said a great job!
Seriously though they are a service under the same constraints as every other service in the current economic climate. They are not the Prods are Us RUC of old. Can they improve...yes but so can we all in our day jobs. I have no difficulty with how they policed the loyalist protests only that an individual officer decided that the Carrick Hill protests were to be policed differently.
So long as there are half-wits like you backing them then everything will be fine ::)
When argument fails resort to insults. There is nothing half witted about the rule of law. The PSNI are no worse than police forces across the world including the Garda...Humans in organisations make mistakes. They may not be perfect but its a big improvement and they are moving forward. If you can articulate where you disagree that would make for debate, but lay off the insults.
Ok enlighten me...what do you mean when you say the PSNI do a great job on the whole
No point in continuing a debate, you have made up your mind, but God forbid you are robbed and beaten, or knocked down by a bus...who will you call, assuming you are not dead? The CIRA?
4 days to come up with that ;D...don't give up your day job 8)...by the way what age are you? about 12 I'd guess ;D
There again... insults are no substitute for reason.
Reason? ;D You have not given one reason as to why you feel the PSNI are doing a good job on the whole.....so excuse me for laughing AGAIN ;D ;D
Quote from: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:27:57 AM
Reason? ;D You have not given one reason as to why you feel the PSNI are doing a good job on the whole.....so excuse me for laughing AGAIN ;D ;D
Ok well lets look at it:
Acceptable now to a large majority of the population in both main traditions.
Record of Success against organised crime and disadents.
representative of the community they police.
accountable to the policing board......etc...etc...
But perhaps this is why you don't like them? ;)
Oh and by the way you have now twice thrown personal insults at me so forgive me if I leave my response at this, I have no wish to trade insults.
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 01, 2013, 11:35:54 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:27:57 AM
Reason? ;D You have not given one reason as to why you feel the PSNI are doing a good job on the whole.....so excuse me for laughing AGAIN ;D ;D
Ok well lets look at it:
Acceptable now to a large majority of the population in both main traditions.
Their record in policing the flags protest and parades would not support this
Record of Success against organised crime and disadents.
How do you measure this success? Diesel laundering, drug dealing, dissidents have now become part of everyday life
representative of the community they police.
More representative...I'll concede that
accountable to the policing board......etc...etc...
They still investigate themselves which is unacceptable
But perhaps this is why you don't like them? ;)
Never said I didn't like them
Oh and by the way you have now twice thrown personal insults at me so forgive me if I leave my response at this, I have no wish to trade insults.
Sensitive soul...you have no argument so admit it
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 01, 2013, 11:35:54 AM
Quote from: Count 10 on July 01, 2013, 11:27:57 AM
Reason? ;D You have not given one reason as to why you feel the PSNI are doing a good job on the whole.....so excuse me for laughing AGAIN ;D ;D
Ok well lets look at it:
Acceptable now to a large majority of the population in both main traditions.
Record of Success against organised crime and disadents.
representative of the community they police.
accountable to the policing board......etc...etc...
But perhaps this is why you don't like them? ;)
Oh and by the way you have now twice thrown personal insults at me so forgive me if I leave my response at this, I have no wish to trade insults.
lol. You obviously haven't had to deal with this super force on a personal level. Political soundbites dont give a valid reason why the PSNI are doing a good job. At a local level it seems you have to actually murder someone before you are apprehended. They are a fine collecting force. Their main aim is to target the people who are fit to pay fines and fine them for whatever reason is possible.
Agree, it's very easy to fine speeding motorists.....and it makes for good statistics.....but tackling thugs, drug dealers, criminals...no chance.
They took almost 20 mins to travel 500 yards during the recent flag protests in Armagh when a Catholic pub was being attacked....you could walk it in less than 3 mins.....yet they can have 25...yes 25 police officers enter licensed premises on a Saturday night to make sure there is no after hours drinking.
They tell lies ....and it's their word against yours....but they have been caught out numerous times thanks to cctv.
They are not accountable to the public that pay their wages.....around 50% of the officers in Armagh are bottle blonde women about 5ft high and quite a few Catholic officers who want to be Chief Constable...yet have only 2-3 years service.
Yes a far cry from the RUC, but at least we all knew where we stood with them!