Free Staters and their hypocrisy on their violent, bloody past

[trueblue1234]

Seafoid, you seem to have gone to ground in the Indo thread. Maybe I'll repeat the question here.

If the PIRA were terrorist psychopaths, then surely the Old IRA must have been too, since they killed at least the same proportion of civilians, and likely a higher proportion. If not, can you explain why not? I ask this because you have repeatedly used the PIRA's proportion of civilian casualties as your reason for terming them as terrorist psychopaths.

The war of Independence lasted 3 years.
How long were the PIRA killing people? I said that the longer the war was the higher the likelihood  of psychopaths pulling the strings.
Or was Omagh a legimate target ?

So when the numbers games fell apart for you, you now jump to how long the war lasted.

As I said, all over the shop. You'd be best do a Rossfan and say nothin when you get your a$$ handed to you rather than keep digging.

You don't have to have supported violence 100 years ago to have the passport.
It wasn't obligatory to support violence during the Troubles either

True. Completely irrelevant to what we were posting, but true all the same.

[GetOverTheBar]

The Indo thread has gone off on a tangent.

The usual anti-SF trolls have tried to turn it into a Provo bashing thread but without addressing their hypocrisy on how they continue to ignore the barbaric, heinous and sectarian attacks the Old IRA committed in their fight for freedom and subsequent betrayal of the past.

Now we've seen the same guys in action - Seafoid, Mouview, Hound, Rossfan all jumping in with revisionism, all attacking the PIRA and The Troubles. All attempting to turn a thread on the bias and toxic nature of the Independent newspaper into a SF/PIRA bashing exercise. In the interest of balance it's important we flesh out their position on violent means to an end in terms with politics.

I don't expect any of these guys to participate in this thread as their sanctimony is hollow. They don't want to address the fact that the soapbox they use to show us how much morally superior than us "nordies" is hollow.

I think some of the comments today have been utterly disgraceful. I know I might piss an awful lot of some of you on here but surely you can recognise and appreciate the fact I am 100% right to call out these sad little people and their bigotry.

Congratulations and well done to all the contributors on here from the Republic of Ireland who are continuing to rile up this British subject with historical accuracy.

We live in a modern secular proud European country thanks to the achievements of the likes of Tom Barry and Dan Breen in driving the British Out

The Fact that our loser northern brethren couldn't drive the British out of an acre of ground in the 6 north eastern counties is a reflection on them as opposed to the south abandoning them which we often hear them crying about.

They made a slightly greater attempt at brits out during the troubles

Maybe it might have succeeded if a large portion of them were so morally weak that they had to inform on each other to the British

And they also lost that "war"

With them reduced to  enforcing British rule on a part of this island for the past  25 years

I know this is a wind up, but to be fair you are dead right about the Provos and informing. Couldn't wait to tell the Brits what they were doing. If it wasn't for informers it is doubtful if the PIRA would've had any members.

Not strictly true, but most of the ones that lived through it.....would be under suspicion.

[Evil Genius]

Seems a raw nerve has been struck with a few posters.

A lot of them are willing to run their mouths off but can't address the subject matter of the topic.

Now I wonder why that would be.

I'm sure most of us get what's really going on here.

You want to shame "Free Staters" who deny/defend what their long dead ancestors did 100 years ago, in order to deflect from any attempt to make you own up to what your contemporaries did in the (relatively) recent past.

What I don't get is this. In pointing out that the "heroes" of the Rising and the Revolutionary War etc were often, in fact, psychopathic, sectarian murderers etc, how do you hope at the same time to persuade Free Staters that they should now vote for those people who claim their legitimacy derives in a direct line from those self-same  psycho's?

Or have I got it wrong, and that the term "Provisional", as in IRA and Sinn Fein, comes from the inalienable right of every native-born Irishman to acquire a Driving Licence, rather than from the Proclamation of 1916?

[smelmoth]

Seems a raw nerve has been struck with a few posters.

A lot of them are willing to run their mouths off but can't address the subject matter of the topic.

Now I wonder why that would be.

Having a bad day Champion?

Don't know what you are talking about. You would have to admit that I have engaged meaningfully in the subject. Any thoughts on my view that everyone has a range of views on these things? Presumably you also have a range of views? Do you for example have a single rationale that explains/justifies/rationalises say all of the modern IRA's activities?

[Armagh18]

The Indo thread has gone off on a tangent.

The usual anti-SF trolls have tried to turn it into a Provo bashing thread but without addressing their hypocrisy on how they continue to ignore the barbaric, heinous and sectarian attacks the Old IRA committed in their fight for freedom and subsequent betrayal of the past.

Now we've seen the same guys in action - Seafoid, Mouview, Hound, Rossfan all jumping in with revisionism, all attacking the PIRA and The Troubles. All attempting to turn a thread on the bias and toxic nature of the Independent newspaper into a SF/PIRA bashing exercise. In the interest of balance it's important we flesh out their position on violent means to an end in terms with politics.

I don't expect any of these guys to participate in this thread as their sanctimony is hollow. They don't want to address the fact that the soapbox they use to show us how much morally superior than us "nordies" is hollow.

I think some of the comments today have been utterly disgraceful. I know I might piss an awful lot of some of you on here but surely you can recognise and appreciate the fact I am 100% right to call out these sad little people and their bigotry.

Congratulations and well done to all the contributors on here from the Republic of Ireland who are continuing to rile up this British subject with historical accuracy.

We live in a modern secular proud European country thanks to the achievements of the likes of Tom Barry and Dan Breen in driving the British Out

The Fact that our loser northern brethren couldn't drive the British out of an acre of ground in the 6 north eastern counties is a reflection on them as opposed to the south abandoning them which we often hear them crying about.

They made a slightly greater attempt at brits out during the troubles

Maybe it might have succeeded if a large portion of them were so morally weak that they had to inform on each other to the British

And they also lost that "war"

With them reduced to  enforcing British rule on a part of this island for the past  25 years

Is this satire or are you a total arsehole?

[Itchy]

"I'm very confused, Ted. Does 'Angelo' actually want to unite with us Free State bastards? Or does he hate us as much as he hates his Brit bastard neighbours in the North?"

He is shooting for a Republic of Tyrone I think.

Then he's on safe enough ground there.

I mean, no invader would ever want to colonise that place, would they?


"Listen, Ahmed, when I said we were going to establish a World Islamic Caliphate, I didn't mean that shithole - it's too full of mad bastards!"

I would only agree to a free Tyrone if they were forced to stop country and western music and line dancing which is a even worse crime than anything the Old IRA did anywhere.

[Snapchap]

Seafoid, you seem to have gone to ground in the Indo thread. Maybe I'll repeat the question here.

If the PIRA were terrorist psychopaths, then surely the Old IRA must have been too, since they killed at least the same proportion of civilians, and likely a higher proportion. If not, can you explain why not? I ask this because you have repeatedly used the PIRA's proportion of civilian casualties as your reason for terming them as terrorist psychopaths.

The war of Independence lasted 3 years.
How long were the PIRA killing people? I said that the longer the war was the higher the likelihood  of psychopaths pulling the strings.
Or was Omagh a legimate target ?

So all along you were claiming it was the proportion of civilian deaths that made the PIRA terrorists. Now that you've learned the Old IRA killed the same and likely a higher proportion of civilians, you are changing the goalposts to say it all comes down to the duration of the conflicts in question? Took you a while to come up with that absolute excuse for an answer.

The Old IRA campaign was indeed shorter. In just one tenth of the time it took the Provos to disappear 14 people, the Old IRA disappeared between 150 and 200 people (mostly civilian). By your logic was that then ok because they did so in a short timeframe? Maybe you'd argue that a group that killed and disappeared up to 200 people in just three years was psychopathic for the entirity of their campaign?

Is civilians making up circa 35% of an organisation's victims ok with you provided they do it with a timely efficiency?

[Itchy]

The Indo thread has gone off on a tangent.

The usual anti-SF trolls have tried to turn it into a Provo bashing thread but without addressing their hypocrisy on how they continue to ignore the barbaric, heinous and sectarian attacks the Old IRA committed in their fight for freedom and subsequent betrayal of the past.

Now we've seen the same guys in action - Seafoid, Mouview, Hound, Rossfan all jumping in with revisionism, all attacking the PIRA and The Troubles. All attempting to turn a thread on the bias and toxic nature of the Independent newspaper into a SF/PIRA bashing exercise. In the interest of balance it's important we flesh out their position on violent means to an end in terms with politics.

I don't expect any of these guys to participate in this thread as their sanctimony is hollow. They don't want to address the fact that the soapbox they use to show us how much morally superior than us "nordies" is hollow.

I think some of the comments today have been utterly disgraceful. I know I might piss an awful lot of some of you on here but surely you can recognise and appreciate the fact I am 100% right to call out these sad little people and their bigotry.

Congratulations and well done to all the contributors on here from the Republic of Ireland who are continuing to rile up this British subject with historical accuracy.

We live in a modern secular proud European country thanks to the achievements of the likes of Tom Barry and Dan Breen in driving the British Out

The Fact that our loser northern brethren couldn't drive the British out of an acre of ground in the 6 north eastern counties is a reflection on them as opposed to the south abandoning them which we often hear them crying about.

They made a slightly greater attempt at brits out during the troubles

Maybe it might have succeeded if a large portion of them were so morally weak that they had to inform on each other to the British

And they also lost that "war"

With them reduced to  enforcing British rule on a part of this island for the past  25 years

Listen here bucko, our friends from the 6 counties have won more all irelands than your crappy little county. So seems to me you're speaking for no one in the 26 counties only yourself you sad little gobshite.

[Angelo]

Seems a raw nerve has been struck with a few posters.

A lot of them are willing to run their mouths off but can't address the subject matter of the topic.

Now I wonder why that would be.

Having a bad day Champion?

Don't know what you are talking about. You would have to admit that I have engaged meaningfully in the subject. Any thoughts on my view that everyone has a range of views on these things? Presumably you also have a range of views? Do you for example have a single rationale that explains/justifies/rationalises say all of the modern IRA's activities?

You're trying hard to change the narrative of this thread.

It's about free state hypocrisy on their own bloody past. Seems you are intent on changing the discussion to anything but.

Strange

[Evil Genius]

Seems a raw nerve has been struck with a few posters.

A lot of them are willing to run their mouths off but can't address the subject matter of the topic.

Now I wonder why that would be.

Having a bad day Champion?

Don't know what you are talking about. You would have to admit that I have engaged meaningfully in the subject. Any thoughts on my view that everyone has a range of views on these things? Presumably you also have a range of views? Do you for example have a single rationale that explains/justifies/rationalises say all of the modern IRA's activities?

You're trying hard to change the narrative of this thread.

It's about free state hypocrisy on their own bloody past. Seems you are intent on changing the discussion to anything but.

While you're trying equally hard to frame the narrative so as to force it down your own preferred route.

Unfortunately however, other people don't have to play your little game.

Worse still, when they decline to do so, you can no longer drag them into an alleyway, re-arrange their kneecaps and redirect them back onto your "approved road". (That was a metaphor, btw)

Which is just the lesson SF had had to learn since they emerged, blinking and bloodied, from the ruins of a failed "armed struggle" and into the daylight of constitutional politics.

Free speech, eh?

It can be a right bitch sometimes... 

[seafoid]

One of the big differences between the Old IRA and the PIRA was the level of popular support. the Old IRA had over 80% of the population onside
The PIRA didn't even have 40%.
That is a massive difference in a revolutionary war.

[From the Bunker]

One of the big differences between the Old IRA and the PIRA was the level of popular support. the Old IRA had over 80% of the population onside
The PIRA didn't even have 40%.
That is a massive difference in a revolutionary war.

Is that 40% of the Catholic Population of Nothern Ireland?

[Angelo]

One of the big differences between the Old IRA and the PIRA was the level of popular support. the Old IRA had over 80% of the population onside
The PIRA didn't even have 40%.
That is a massive difference in a revolutionary war.

Ah yes.

Support justifies murder.

You really incapable of constructing a coherent argument for double standards.

[GetOverTheBar]

One of the big differences between the Old IRA and the PIRA was the level of popular support. the Old IRA had over 80% of the population onside
The PIRA didn't even have 40%.
That is a massive difference in a revolutionary war.

Wrong, massively wrong.

[Angelo]

A recap of some of today's contributions.

Seafoid thinks the Old IRA murdering people was fine because the people backed their murderous campaign
Rossfan thinks sectarian murders down in Cork was justifiable because it was the Old IIRA who commited them.
Smelmoth has spent the day trying to spam up a thread with anything but the central subject.
Clonadmad's mother allowed him skip school today.