The Palestine thread

[bannside]

https://twitter.com/emanmoh20541441/status/1393544414753140740?s=24

Shocking what's going on. World leaders failing miserably to deal with this. Sanctions should be put in place and kick the Israeli ambassadors out of every self respecting country.

[seafoid]

Peter Taylor doesn't do The Death Of Yugoslavia.

It is a BBC production however.

Basically Bosnia is made up of two autonomous federal republics, one controlled by the Muslims and one by the Serbs, called the Republika Srpska.

This was the agreement brokered at Dayton in 1995 which ended the war - the Serbs had been after an expanded Serbia.

It think this system might have a chance of working in Israel/Palestine, with the West Bank/Gaza being an autonomous republic within a Greater Israel/Palestine, but everybody having the same citizenship rights. An overarching constitution would have to be very carefully and painstakingly drawn up to balance rights for both sides.

I think the series is very much worth watching, particularly with a view to how nationalistic rabble rousers can cause a red mist to descend over populations and turn on their neighbours. Milosevic himself was one of the catalysts when he travelled to a Serb part of Kosovo in 1987 and ran with a minor local political squabble which was to eventually escalate all the way to war.

There's a documentary called A Town Called Kozarac which I watched once when first broadcast, I see it's up on YouTube. My memory of it is that it focuses on personal stories of neighbours of different ethnicities turning viciously against each other, I must watch it again.

Bosnia is a mess. The West only cared about stopping the war. Most of the young people emigrated. The history is different too.
Bosnia is a result of the collapses of the Ottoman and Hapsburg empires.

Israel is settler colonialism like Northern Ireland .

Settler colonialism features:
Domination over the locals
systematic oppression
cultural destruction
violence

[Armagh18]

https://twitter.com/emanmoh20541441/status/1393544414753140740?s=24

Shocking what's going on. World leaders failing miserably to deal with this. Sanctions should be put in place and kick the Israeli ambassadors out of every self respecting country.

should have happened years ago

[seafoid]

Biden is not going to do anything
https://www.ft.com/content/857a6617-d87f-41f3-82ce-5decbc99d348

Biden seems determined to avoid being diverted. He has had only a brief call with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. His national security team has been working the phones, but he sent only a mid-level State Department official to the region to work on a ceasefire. And he is holding off any attempt by the UN Security Council to intervene. Essentially, he is leaving Israel to deal with the crisis on its own. Contrast this with the last Gaza war in 2014, when secretary of state John Kerry rushed to the region and worked on a ceasefire with Turkey and Qatar, only to have it rejected by Israel

[Milltown Row2]

Cheers fellas. I will look those up

It's very good....

[Angelo]

The West are an embarrassment.

Will act the tough guy if Russia do something but happy yo have the Israelis engage in ethnic cleansing.

[sid waddell]

The West certainly is an embarrassment as regards Israel

It's touching, incredibly naive and in some ways quite funny that anybody would think that Russia is in any way different as regards Israel

Putin and Netanyahu are peas in a pod

[BennyCake]

The West certainly is an embarrassment as regards Israel

It's touching, incredibly naive and in some ways quite funny that anybody would think that Russia is in any way different as regards Israel

Putin and Netanyahu are peas in a pod

You mean Doctor or Colonel Putin?

[seafoid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPL5rTp7DYc

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/eaf20221-1074-4bb4-9677-9091a5c31b1e

over the past week, Netanyahu's plan for securing Israel's future has collapsed. The Israeli prime minister's hope that the Palestinian issue was safely sidelined has proved to be a delusion. A dispute which started with clashes between Israeli police and Muslim protesters in Jerusalem has escalated — with rockets being fired at Israeli cities, Israel bombing Gaza and violent clashes between Arabs and Jews breaking out across Israel. With the encouragement of the Trump administration, the Netanyahu government had followed what some called the "outside-in" strategy. This was the idea that Israel should pursue agreements with the outside world, above all the Arab world, to help solve its internal conflict with the Palestinians. This was a reversal of the more traditional "inside-out" approach to the conflict — which held that Israel first had to secure a settlement with the Palestinians; and only then could expect to achieve a durable peace and international acceptance. The signing of the Abraham accords was brandished as evidence that the outside-in strategy was working. Israel hoped that Saudi Arabia, the most powerful country in the Arab world, would be next to establish diplomatic relations. As for the Palestinians, the hubristic hope in Netanyahu's circle was that, deprived of Arab and international support, they would lose the will to resist. Human rights activists could continue to support their cause but the wider world would move on, allowing Israel to impose its own terms on a weakened and dispersed Palestinian population. Some Israelis speculated that the Palestinians might end up like the Tibetans — a people whose national aspirations look increasingly forlorn and forgotten. The rockets raining down on Israel's cities from Gaza have inflicted grave damage not just on property and citizens, but on that strategy too. The hope that Netanyahu's policies had rendered the Palestinian issue irrelevant now looks foolish. International condemnation of Israeli actions has revived, spurred on by civilian deaths in Gaza, including many children. Further Israeli diplomatic breakthroughs look unlikely. Most serious of all, the brutal clashes between Jews and Israeli-Arabs, who make up 20 per cent of the population of the country, have brought the conflict inside the borders of Israel itself, leading to talk of civil war. In recent years, many Israeli politicians had come to hope and believe that Arabs living inside the country were no longer identifying so strongly with the Palestinian cause. But the current crisis has brought a renewed sense of unity between Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel itself. The idea that the Palestinian problem could be safely walled-off, out of sight, is no longer credible. Instead, Netanyahu's strategy may have increased the threat to his country — by inadvertently opening up a new front, within Israel itself. That threat will remain, even after the pummelling of Gaza has stopped. Recommended Rachman Review podcast21 min listen A crisis in the Middle East The major flaw in the outside-in strategy was its assumption that Palestinian despair would lead to quiescence. In reality, the increasing boldness of the Israeli far right — which is determined to push ahead with further annexations of Palestinian property and land — eventually provided the spark that ignited the latest conflagration. The far right had itself been courted and legitimised by Netanyahu, as he sought allies in his efforts to hang on to power.

[Main Street]

Peter Taylor doesn't do The Death Of Yugoslavia.

It is a BBC production however.

Basically Bosnia is made up of two autonomous federal republics, one controlled by the Muslims and one by the Serbs, called the Republika Srpska.

This was the agreement brokered at Dayton in 1995 which ended the war - the Serbs had been after an expanded Serbia.

It think this system might have a chance of working in Israel/Palestine, with the West Bank/Gaza being an autonomous republic within a Greater Israel/Palestine, but everybody having the same citizenship rights. An overarching constitution would have to be very carefully and painstakingly drawn up to balance rights for both sides.

I think the series is very much worth watching, particularly with a view to how nationalistic rabble rousers can cause a red mist to descend over populations and turn on their neighbours. Milosevic himself was one of the catalysts when he travelled to a Serb part of Kosovo in 1987 and ran with a minor local political squabble which was to eventually escalate all the way to war.

There's a documentary called A Town Called Kozarac which I watched once when first broadcast, I see it's up on YouTube. My memory of it is that it focuses on personal stories of neighbours of different ethnicities turning viciously against each other, I must watch it again.

Bosnia is a mess. The West only cared about stopping the war. Most of the young people emigrated. The history is different too.
Bosnia is a result of the collapses of the Ottoman and Hapsburg empires.

Israel is settler colonialism like Northern Ireland .

Settler colonialism features:
Domination over the locals
systematic oppression
cultural destruction
violence

It was worse than NI, much much worse , so much worse as to resemble no comparison.
Nordie nationalists were not forcibly removed  without warning from their homes as the 700,000 Palestinians were in 1948 and force-marched to a place across the border, they were not murdered in cold blood in their thousands and the women were not raped by the righteous in their thousands, furthermore their empty homes were not ransacked by the righteous who plundered anything of value.
In contrast, Nordies had it decent enough in the orange statelet under their orange master overlords.

[sid waddell]

Palestine needs to develop an extensive international lobby along the lines of what Israel has

It needs to counter the lies, its talking heads internationally need to be exceptionally well versed in how to frame arguments in a non threatening way

It absolutely has justice and truth on its side and the vast majority of people internationally who have a genuine interest in this conflict and its history are on the side of the Palestinian people

Palestine's leaders have undoubtedly failed their people however, it is impossible to see progress as long as Fatah and Hamas rule the roost in the internal Palestinian political sphere

It is shuddering to imagine what would have happened in South Africa had Mandela and a couple of other key players around him not existed

Leadership matters

[give her dixie]

3 times this week the UN Security Council met.

Ireland has a seat on this council, and 3 times this week, the
USA under Joe Biden, has vetoed any attempts to intervene, including 3 refusals to call for a ceasefire.

Joe Biden is giving Israel the green light to continue with what they are doing, and not only that,
the week before the attacks began, he approved a $750 million mutations supply to Israel.

No doubt those bombs could have been used in the current attacks on Gaza.

I'm sick of hearing people say "we call on the international community to speak out and take action"

The International community, under the UN Security Council, is willing to speak out, but Joe Biden says no.

Because the USA has a veto over every UN Resolution, and they use it every time when it comes to Israel.

So much for democracy, and the International community speaking out.

So instead of calling out for the International community to speak out, how about those with close links to
Joe Biden here in Ireland pick up the phone, and who were proud to support him a few months ago, and which he capitalised on,
implore him to intervene and stop this bloodshed.

They have his number, and his ear.

Why are they not calling him themselves instead of asking others to do so?

Joe Biden likes to talk about how his ancestors left Ireland in 1850, and his ties to Louth and Mayo.

What would his ancestors think of him now as he green lights the death and destruction in Gaza before our eyes?

And don't start me on the Boyle brothers, the sons of Donegal, who are the leading cheerleaders for Israel.

Before the bodies of the 24 men women and children who were killed by Israeli airstrikes, were buried on Monday, 
Congressman Brendan Boyle issued a statement saying Israel had a right to defend itself.

It's high time we called out the great supporters of Ireland over their support for Israel.

It's time to call a spade a spade, and make Ireland a cold house for those Irish loving US politicians
who currently support the ongoing genocide in Palestine.

They need called out, and those who give them a platform, need to be called out as well.

The cow can't forget it was a calf.

[Eamonnca1]

Palestine needs to develop an extensive international lobby along the lines of what Israel has

It needs to counter the lies, its talking heads internationally need to be exceptionally well versed in how to frame arguments in a non threatening way

It absolutely has justice and truth on its side and the vast majority of people internationally who have a genuine interest in this conflict and its history are on the side of the Palestinian people

Palestine's leaders have undoubtedly failed their people however, it is impossible to see progress as long as Fatah and Hamas rule the roost in the internal Palestinian political sphere

It is shuddering to imagine what would have happened in South Africa had Mandela and a couple of other key players around him not existed

Leadership matters

Could not agree more. The best thing the Palestinians could do is adopt the "don't get mad, get organized" approach. But Israel makes that very difficult for them by meting out injustice after injustice. The victims have a sense of helplessness and desperation. It must feel like they're a doomed people and nobody is coming to their aid. God help them.

[seafoid]

Palestine needs to develop an extensive international lobby along the lines of what Israel has

It needs to counter the lies, its talking heads internationally need to be exceptionally well versed in how to frame arguments in a non threatening way

It absolutely has justice and truth on its side and the vast majority of people internationally who have a genuine interest in this conflict and its history are on the side of the Palestinian people

Palestine's leaders have undoubtedly failed their people however, it is impossible to see progress as long as Fatah and Hamas rule the roost in the internal Palestinian political sphere

It is shuddering to imagine what would have happened in South Africa had Mandela and a couple of other key players around him not existed

Leadership matters

South Africa had different demographic proportions- whites were about 10%.
Jews are around 50% in Greater Israel.

Another difference is the history of the Holocaust which Israel uses to deflect criticism over human rights abuses.