Dublin v Mayo 2020 All-Ireland final

Started by Farrandeelin, December 06, 2020, 08:56:37 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

How much will Dublin win the final by?

They'll lose.
26 (23.2%)
0-5 pts
12 (10.7%)
5-10 pts
38 (33.9%)
10+ pts
36 (32.1%)

Total Members Voted: 112

Voting closed: December 19, 2020, 08:56:37 AM

dublin7

Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Mayo had a man advantage for the first 10 minutes of the second half and instead of drawing level or going ahead, they fell a further 2 points behind.  Dublin we're and are just a better team

Mayo sat back for those 10 minutes rather than push on and take advantage of the extra man for that period. I assume this was based on Dublin blitzing them at the start of the 2nd half last year. That was when Mayo needed to push on though and take a few chances. They must have known thy would need to score goals to beat Dublin and that 10 min spell opened the door a little for them to have a go

Maroon Manc

Quote from: dublin7 on December 21, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Mayo had a man advantage for the first 10 minutes of the second half and instead of drawing level or going ahead, they fell a further 2 points behind.  Dublin we're and are just a better team

Mayo sat back for those 10 minutes rather than push on and take advantage of the extra man for that period. I assume this was based on Dublin blitzing them at the start of the 2nd half last year. That was when Mayo needed to push on though and take a few chances. They must have known thy would need to score goals to beat Dublin and that 10 min spell opened the door a little for them to have a go

Dublin held on to the ball for a large period of that 10 mins, gave a masterclass in killing the time.

dublin7

Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 21, 2020, 02:25:28 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 21, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 21, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Mayo had a man advantage for the first 10 minutes of the second half and instead of drawing level or going ahead, they fell a further 2 points behind.  Dublin we're and are just a better team

Mayo sat back for those 10 minutes rather than push on and take advantage of the extra man for that period. I assume this was based on Dublin blitzing them at the start of the 2nd half last year. That was when Mayo needed to push on though and take a few chances. They must have known thy would need to score goals to beat Dublin and that 10 min spell opened the door a little for them to have a go

Dublin held on to the ball for a large period of that 10 mins, gave a masterclass in killing the time.

Mayo made it easy for them. They kept the spare man back deep in front of their own full back line, effectively cancelling out the man advantage. As you say the dubs were happy to play keep ball
to kill time 

macdanger2

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2020, 02:13:39 PM
They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Hound on December 21, 2020, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 21, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 21, 2020, 12:21:52 PM
Bernard Brogan had a good interview with Malachay Clerkin in the Irish times at the weekend in relation to dublin funding

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/bernard-brogan-finances-didn-t-win-five-all-irelands-in-a-row-1.4439956

Decent enough article tbf. On this point he makes
QuoteSo I get annoyed when I see people saying that these players are only able to win because of financial doping

Virtually nobody is saying that or at least not anybody with a bit of sense.

Dublin have plenty of natural advantages that can never be changed, funding is one that can be changed relatively easily if the will is there.

But the funding that the likes of Lar quotes figures from is nothing at all to do with funding the intercounty team.


The sponsorship money of course does and something can be done there. But not pooling all the sponsorship that each county gets. That would lead to mismanagement.
Instead youn need to take the power away from all the county boards and sell it on a national level, something like the NFL maybe.
I just saw this now...
I accept what you are saying and I don't think I ever implied that it had directly.
AFAIK, the money is needed  to keep Dublin's clubs solvent. Hard to believe that, with their income stream from membership dues  and the sponsorship revenue many of those clubs can generate, they should need financial assistance from any quarter.
Add in the fact that that megacllubs were able to make a serious profit on food and drink in more affluent times and suspicions of financial misuse might arise.  (I discount them 100%.)
I think you'll find some of the reasons can be found in the report of the 2002 SRC.
IMO, the lack of a strong community base is one.
The report could have added that drawing their members from a wide area can be a positive disadvantage.
Dublin clubs provide a massive child-minding services to literally thousands of hard-pressed mothers who shunt their kids off to the juvenile section of the nearest club to keep them occupied for the weekend.
All concerned know that well over 95% of these kids will not be long-term additions to the club they join. With their strong community assistance, smaller rural clubs can run their juvenile section at a fraction of the costs the likes of Vins and Cuala  (probably) have.

So, does the income I mention have anything to do with the development of the senior team?

IMO, it does in an indirect way and a very marked one at that.
The team panel is drawn from players who play at senior club level.(May be rare exceptions.)
So only a very tiny percentage of those who join at juvenile age ever reach that level.
It also means that a huge number of players never get to represent their county who would make the grade in counties with more senior clubs and a much lower rate of drop out.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Lar Naparka

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 21, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2020, 02:13:39 PM
They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh
Maybe, but if the amount of monety Mayo gets from Elverys is reduced, do you think they'd give Elverys the same amount of coverage?
Furthermore, do you think Elverys wouldn't mind if some of what was earmarked for a specific market ie Mayo wound up promoting , say, Antrim or Leitrim football?
Finally, would Liam Moffat & Co. mind id they only get a percentage of what they had expected to et if, say, 50% ofd it was going to one of their competitors?
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Tatler Jack

Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2020, 02:22:12 PM
Quote from: Tatler Jack on December 21, 2020, 12:31:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2020, 11:24:04 AM
So it's back to the good oul days.......?
Grassy banks, big lump of a leather ball, Mícheál Ó Hehir, warm runny ice cream, sideline 1 shilling extra, tar bilin', .....

No it's not Rosfan and your savvy old man posts are a bit tiresome - on any subject.

We have a problem and we either go professional or we make the game an amateur one in the true sense,

Disagree if you wish but less of being the resident smartass.
Another poster with a humour by pass  ::)

No just your attempts at humour are a bit jaded

Semi Pro is your option as things wont go back to true amateurism at top level. Why not? not inevitable that some form of professionalism is needed
True amateurism would mean no expenses, no collective training etc which of course is an upper class English Victorian concept of sport being for "gentlemen" only. Of course expenses could be paid as they always were. GAA was never a "gentlemen only" sport  or could be considered a Victorian concept. I found this funny 😄
A semi pro contract would have to be with Central GAA and the usual rules for qualification would have to apply.
Would also entail transfer markets etc and even more commercialism and panel experts. No thanks.

seafoid

I have been reading a good few analysis pieces about the match before and after and I don't think any of them addressed the pointlessness of the match.
Dublin have been working on this machine for the last 18 years. A lot of journalism focuses on now but now is too late.
They had 2 all stars in the subs. They didn't develop their S&C levels on Friday. The players are at the top of a pyramid whicch didn't come into being last month.
And the Dub fans fan defences are atrocious.

This nonsense can go on indefinitely. There is no sign of competition returning anytime soon. Gaelic football is dying at county level.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

macdanger2

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2020, 03:20:41 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 21, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2020, 02:13:39 PM
They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh
Maybe, but if the amount of monety Mayo gets from Elverys is reduced, do you think they'd give Elverys the same amount of coverage?

In what way would Mayo reduce the coverage? The idea is that from the company end, they'd get the exact same return for their money in terms of exposure but the money would be distributed differently.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2020, 03:20:41 PM
Furthermore, do you think Elverys wouldn't mind if some of what was earmarked for a specific market ie Mayo wound up promoting , say, Antrim or Leitrim football?

They wouldn't get a choice in the matter - they pay the GAA for sponsorship (name on jersey plus whatever else is involved) and that's what they receive. How the GAA spend that money is up to the GAA

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2020, 03:20:41 PM
Finally, would Liam Moffat & Co. mind id they only get a percentage of what they had expected to et if, say, 50% ofd it was going to one of their competitors?

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

Rossfan

Tatler One of the reasons Cusack started his Gaelic ATHLETIC Assn was so Ordinary people could take part in sports as official athletics were Unionist and upper class.
The Victorians believed the lower classes should be kept working and leave sports to the well heeled, aristocrats etc .

Still a touch of that in horse racing where an amateur jockey is still called Mr. Paddy Murphy or whatever.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Angelo

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 21, 2020, 03:41:23 PM

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

They might but the redistribution is not about improving the likes of Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal etc.

It's about allowing counties like Leitrim, Fermanagh, Sligo, Carlow, Longford etc to be able to better compete which will be a good thing and tbf I think that is what you are alluding to.

What most people want is a Championship that is exciting where anyone can beat anyone.

I look at the likes of Derry these days and I know we will flog them anytime we meet them and it's sad that football has gone that way in some counties.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

macdanger2

Quote from: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 21, 2020, 03:41:23 PM

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

They might but the redistribution is not about improving the likes of Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal etc.

It's about allowing counties like Leitrim, Fermanagh, Sligo, Carlow, Longford etc to be able to better compete which will be a good thing and tbf I think that is what you are alluding to.


Absolutely. I'm fairly sure that Mayo/Galway spend a good bit more than Roscommon who in turn spend a good but more than Sligo who probably spend more than Leitrim. That spending disparity should be eliminated - Mayo/Galway will still have a sizeable population advantage but it should be possible for all teams to prepare in a reasonably similar manner from a spending point of view.


Tatler Jack

Quote from: Rossfan on December 21, 2020, 03:45:26 PM
Tatler One of the reasons Cusack started his Gaelic ATHLETIC Assn was so Ordinary people could take part in sports as official athletics were Unionist and upper class.
The Victorians believed the lower classes should be kept working and leave sports to the well heeled, aristocrats etc .

Still a touch of that in horse racing where an amateur jockey is still called Mr. Paddy Murphy or whatever.

Yes Rosfan I am well versed in the origins of the GAA and indeed of Victorian Britain and its class system. But Cusack established an amateur organization on a basis where everyone could participate. Indeed it could be argued that the current GAA is now closer to the elitism of the Victorian era that you clearly despise. I support the GAA and remain involved because I still try to believe that it is based on some sort of egalitarianism and has some values beyond crass commercialism. No doubt a wise old timer like yourself will find this "naive" and harking back to the "anyone for the last choc ices" days. However I believe we define our values including what we want sport to be.

As regards horse racing yes if you go to Goodwood or Ascot and maybe even the Curragh you find relics of the Victorian era but go to Lenabane, Listowel or Ballinrobe and you will find ordinary fellows like ouselves enjoying their sport and not a "gentleman " in sight.

Sin m'fhocal scoir ar an t-ábhar seo

Rossfan

Mo focal scor- you don't know what I think and I never was or never will be at a horse race. ;)
As for All  Ireland Final I wonder who will Dublin beat in the 2021 Final.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 21, 2020, 02:13:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 21, 2020, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 21, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 21, 2020, 12:21:52 PM
Bernard Brogan had a good interview with Malachay Clerkin in the Irish times at the weekend in relation to dublin funding

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/bernard-brogan-finances-didn-t-win-five-all-irelands-in-a-row-1.4439956

Decent enough article tbf. On this point he makes
QuoteSo I get annoyed when I see people saying that these players are only able to win because of financial doping

Virtually nobody is saying that or at least not anybody with a bit of sense.

Dublin have plenty of natural advantages that can never be changed, funding is one that can be changed relatively easily if the will is there.

But the funding that the likes of Lar quotes figures from is nothing at all to do with funding the intercounty team.

The sponsorship money of course does and something can be done there. But not pooling all the sponsorship that each county gets. That would lead to mismanagement.
Instead you need to take the power away from all the county boards and sell it on a national level, something like the NFL maybe.
With due respect Hound, I can see massive problems with your proposal. Sponsors  give money or other forms of aid to specific counties for one reason only.
They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

It also means certain counties won't bother looking for sponsorship. Why kill yourself for a €25k deal you make €800 off when you get €25k from the Dubs