The troubles i've seen

[BennyHarp]

Not sure if this was shown earlier in Northern Ireland, but did anyone watch "The Troubles I've seen" shown last night on ITV with Eamonn Holmes talking to "celebrities" from Northern Ireland about the Troubles! Thought Paddy Kielty came across very well and Jim McDonald seemed liked the most bitter and twisted yet least affected by the troubles in his big house and campbell college education!

[lfdown2]

aye seen it and completely agree maybe i am being bitter now but it did seem a slightly one sided view!
thought j nesbit came across quite well!

[illdecide]

Aye watched that myself last night and couldn't agree more...did you hear him in that taxi about driving thru the Falls Road and then when he got back to the Lower Shankill he said he felt much better now and i think I'll go the Rangers club for a pint...Out of all the celebs interviewed he def came across as the most bitter...

[Doogie Browser]

Not sure if this was shown earlier in Northern Ireland, but did anyone watch "The Troubles I've seen" shown last night on ITV with Eamonn Holmes talking to "celebrities" from Northern Ireland about the Troubles! Thought Paddy Kielty came across very well and Jim McDonald seemed liked the most bitter and twisted yet least affected by the troubles in his big house and campbell college education!

Seen it, Kielty and Jimmy Nesbitt both came across very well and spoke very candidly, I agree Charlie Lawson couldn't hide his true feelings, one quote from him which I picked up on as he came back into a loyalist area after leaving a republican area and he said 'its great to see the red white and blue above the NI supporters club' most celebrities in the public eye would be keen to disassociate themselves from that sort of tripe but not our Charlie.
He sickened me to be honest with his luvvie attitude to it all, he must have had a very tough upbringing during the 'troubles' in his Country Estate in Fermanagh.

[nrico2006]

Charlie Lawson seemed honest more than bitter, and if you turned his views around to the other side I'm sure alot of people watching would have similar feelings i.e. feeling more at home on the Falls road and likely to hit the Celtic supporters club for a pint.  I think its just natural to what side you are from to feel a warm affiliation to certain emblems and colours moreso than others.

Nesbitt came across well but I sort of expected him to be like that given his history and I like Kielty when he isn't acting the clown.  Courageous of him to speak about that on national TV.

Eamonn has turned into a real honey monster!

[Evil Genius]

Not sure if this was shown earlier in Northern Ireland, but did anyone watch "The Troubles I've seen" shown last night on ITV with Eamonn Holmes talking to "celebrities" from Northern Ireland about the Troubles! Thought Paddy Kielty came across very well and Jim McDonald seemed liked the most bitter and twisted yet least affected by the troubles in his big house and campbell college education!

Perhaps you mean the most partisan of the contributors, but tbh, if Charlie Lawson was truly "bitter and twisted", I suspect he wouldn't have bothered appearing on such a programme in the first place, being seen having an amicable relationship with Eamonn Homes. Nor would he have accepted e.g. the role of a hunger striker in the play from a few years back, which he referred to.

Rather, what I took from his contribution was the simple exposition that he feels comfortable in his "own" community and uncomfortable in the "other" community. Now as an educated man, who has had the opportunity to escape such a mindset, I would certainly hope for better from him. But in truth - and he was nothing if not truthful - his reaction is no different from that of the majority of people in NI and, I'd guess, the overwhelming majority of people living in the Shankill and Falls on either side of the Peaceline [sic].

And whilst I try hard to avoid the same "ghetto mentality" myself, I don't actually see his comments as being substantially different from e.g. those of President McAleese, when for instance she compared the upbringing and education of Protestant children in NI to the indoctrination of German children during the Third Reich. (And before anyone accuses me of "whataboutery", I quote this not in order to defend Lawson or condemn McAleese; rather, it is to put his views in context i.e. he and McAleese are only two sides of the same, sorry coin, and both should know better)

P.S. Agree that Kielty came across very impressively.

[BennyHarp]

My point about Charlie Lawson is that - unless i missed something - he wasnt necessarily affected by the troubles in the way that for example paddy kielty was. So to see him drive down the shankill road and say it felt like home - then to show his actual home in the Enniskillen countryside, it all seemed a little bit put on to be honest rather than from the heart. He seemed to want to tell stories about how difficult the troubles where for him - but didnt actually have any true stories to tell. So he referred to type and came across as bitter and twisted because that looked like he was emotionally affected! Kielty was genuinely honest when asked if he could forgive the men who killed his father - but didnt look bitter about it.

[Evil Genius]

My point about Charlie Lawson is that - unless i missed something - he wasnt necessarily affected by the troubles in the way that for example paddy kielty was. So to see him drive down the shankill road and say it felt like home - then to show his actual home in the Enniskillen countryside, it all seemed a little bit put on to be honest rather than from the heart. He seemed to want to tell stories about how difficult the troubles where for him - but didnt actually have any true stories to tell. So he referred to type and came across as bitter and twisted because that looked like he was emotionally affected! Kielty was genuinely honest when asked if he could forgive the men who killed his father - but didnt look bitter about it.

If by "not affected by the Troubles" you mean he didn't e.g. lose a father, like Kielty, or live in a Belfast ghetto like many another, then you are correct.

But surely that is missing the point. In fact, he was directly "affected" by the Troubles in that he was moved to associate with hardline loyalism, rather than e.g the more liberal and detached politics one might expect from someone with his background. Indeed, if he were totally "unaffected", he wouldn't give a stuff about NI at all; instead, he would happily live in a big house in England, partying with his "luvvie" friends from showbusiness etc.

By agreeing to be filmed in his big house in Fermanagh and Campbell College, then moving to his "spiritual home" on the Shankill Road, he was merely reflecting just how complicated the Troubles were, and why we shouldn't deal in simple stereotypes about "Ussuns" and "Themmuns". As such, I daresay hardline Republicanism has many in its ranks who come from privileged and educated backgrounds, too.

P.S. It occurs to me that if Lawson did come across as "bitter and twisted", it was not in his relation with those on the Falls etc. Rather, he was much more angry with his fellow Britons in England, who were totally ignorant of the situation in NI and treated him as "just another Paddy" when he first went across the water. It was they whom he wanted to punch, not Eamonn Holmes.

[nifan]

Not a fan of kielty in terms of comedy, but I think he did very well.
Obviously an awful topic for him but I was impressed by the way he handled it.

[SLIGONIAN]

Enjoyed the programme to be honest, it was very well put together and i think the lads speaking on it came across well. I couldnt argue with any other posters comments on here either.

Isnt it great though in a few generations it all be pretty much dliuted all that pain and suffering. And hopefully a United Ireland will follow when the next boom comes around in the south and we can afford to regenerate the North ourselves.

[illdecide]

I know where Lawson is coming from...of course anyone would feel more comfortable in their own area ( blue or green) i just got the impression from him that he was still a real true blue (if you know what i mean)

[SLIGONIAN]

I know where Lawson is coming from...of course anyone would feel more comfortable in their own area ( blue or green) i just got the impression from him that he was still a real true blue (if you know what i mean)

I got the same impression aswell but its just the way he is, you could see right thorugh him. I used to be as bitter on the other side of coin so wouldnt hold it against him. Were all human.

[screenmachine]

meant to watch this but missed it, anyone know newhere you can catch it online?

[ziggysego]

It was a lot of nonsense, made for the UK audience. Didn't really cover any issues in great details.

Paddy and James spoke powerful well. As for "Jim", well I will go against the grain of everyone complaining about him. At least he was honest about his feeling, though from his background, how close to it all was he really?

[BennyHarp]

As for "Jim", well I will go against the grain of everyone complaining about him. At least he was honest about his feeling, though from his background, how close to it all was he really?

Ziggy, thats the point i'm trying to make about him!