McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[theskull1]

My question was in relation to the this group of players performance level and how proportional that was to who managed them. So if you can address that one for me that would be great. Getting rid of Ger was what this was about right? Now that Ger has gone and the players performed worse this year than last year has that made you come to different conclusions about why the current Cork panel is not the side it used to be?

Yeah thats a good sign that the clubs are coming out of hiding

[johnneycool]

In a county of 200 odd clubs, I wonder how you could hold a working, regular meeting to accomodate them all and their opinions and still do business!! Some clever thinking for a solution to that one required.

As for the abolition of the secret ballot, I thought that was a bad thing as Frank could then know and target those who voted against him..

Does the six year term for executive members include our Frank's full time position or is he still expected to retire shortly?


By and large, mostly common sense idea's you'd have thought.

[Reillers]

My question was in relation to the this group of players performance level and how proportional that was to who managed them. So if you can address that one for me that would be great. Getting rid of Ger was what this was about right? Now that Ger has gone and the players performed worse this year than last year has that made you come to different conclusions about why the current Cork panel is not the side it used to be?

Yeah thats a good sign that the clubs are coming out of hiding

The whole point of what happend (for the 100th) Skull is it was totally against the CCB's actions, it was never really about Gerald, it just got dragged down that way, this is trying to counter the CCB. I genuinely don't know how you still don't understand what happened.


If you want me to go into the differences between Walsh and McCarthy I will. But at the end of the day, we were beaten by an excelent Galway side, a team who I hope go on and win it.
Kilkenny have to fall sometime. And I genuinely hope Galway do go on and the AI. They've had excellent underage success and while it may be the end of this current Cork team (10 years later, a couple of Munster titles and 3 AI titles..etc) it could be the start of a new one, and it's great to see a new force in hurling, it's great to have them back. 
I mean, the team has been around for 10 years, and it was coming to the end and we all knew that. Nothing lasts forever.

But what happened, the strike, it wasn't about the players preformances under Gerald, it was about what the CCB did, the massive backing from the clubs at the meetings wasn't about Gerald it was about the CCB, the massive vote against Gerald from the clubs wasn't about Gerald either, or his abilities as a coach, but about the CCB.

And Skull I don't know how many more times it has to be said before you actually accept it or understand for that matter that it was never really about Gerald McCarthy. It was just ended up getting messy and personal, but it was about the fact that

[theskull1]

Some quotes from your good self Reiller just to jog your etch-a-sketch memory.

They've grined and put up with it for 2 years.

How about a man who can do his job. Players have to earn the jersey and proof their worth to keep it, they have to deserve it, to keep it. The same should apply for the manager. If a player plays poorly he's dropped, if a manager does badly and there is someone better to replace him, he too should be gotten rid of.

Was, was a great player (and is a legend for that) and WAS a good manager (both of which aren't fact but opinion) but he has struggeld clearly over the 2 years with the modern game. And his decisions, style of play, his choices when it came to team selection and subs and his trainng methods back that up, that he doesn't know how to coach in today's game. Like I said, if you could do your job well 20 years ago does that mean you could still do it well now and even if you couldn't does that mean you should be kept around because you could do it well back then. A lot of things have changed over the years and it's no shame to admit that managers like Gerald (and people like the fossils in the CB) couldn't change with it (and in the CB's case, wouldn't.)
He's not done much to prove himself at all in the 2 seasons, nothing that says he was a good manager. And to be honest, when it comes down to it, the great managers know when they're finished, when their time is up with  the team and they simply walk away, unlike Gerald, who is delusional thinking he can still work with these players.

The players have to be managed by the manager, it affects them 100%. These lads are giving up most of their time for this all year, they are sacrificing a lot. They are the ones it affects, it's got everything to do with them. Now should a player be able to pick the manager, no, and that's not what the players are trying to do either. But if a squad (30 people) who have been managed by him for 2 seasons turns around to the so called men in charge and tells them that it's not working out and it hasn't been for a long time, and that they don't want to play for him anymore, that should be listened to because at the end of the day, they are the ones if affects, they are the ones who are best placed to know aren't they?

Things change. At one stage months ago, Gerald going would have been enough

The truth is over this past 9 months you have covered all your bases when it comes to apportioning THE blame (well everybody bar the 2008 panel that is) so you may have said one thing but the next week said something contradictory. One minute it was Ger, next it was the CB, then just FM himself. A real moving target

Fact: You have said on umpteen occassions that Ger needed to go, so on the basis that you actually believed that (rather than it being THE problem) could you please answer the question I put to you now that you have the benefit of hindsight? Because whilst I agree that Galway were slightly stiffer opposition this year than last, the same could not be said about Cork. In fact I would say that Galway sensed weakness in the Cork team and that drove them on. I'm just wondering why Denis Walsh is not facing critisism for those quarters that joined in the witch hunt of Ger McCarthy. Surely released from the burden of having Ger McC as their manager, Corks performance level should have improved?

[dowling]

In response to you're question Skull..

Clubs demand changes in county structures

By Fintan O'Toole

Thursday, July 23, 2009

GRASSROOTS clubs in Cork have called for an immediate and widespread overhaul of county GAA structures in the wake of several recent high profile stand-offs between players and the board.

The Cork GAA Clubs Forum, which was established as a result of club grievances during last winter's bitter conflict, yesterday released its interim report, outlining the plans for the future development of Gaelic games in the county.

In a wide-ranging document, calls were made for all junior clubs to be represented at county board level, to model Cork GAA marketing plans on the successful Munster rugby brand model and to establish a supporters club to assist fundraising.

Cork GAA Clubs Forum chairman Tomás Ryan explained that the report was a result of extensive consultation with clubs around the county.

"A huge amount of work has gone into the report. There were a lot of genuine meetings with a lot of genuine GAA people.

"We met clubs from every division and there were a lot of frustrations. This is just a completely GAA report which covers areas right across the board. We e-mailed a copy of it to every club in the county on Tuesday night and to the county board executive.

"Everybody wants to avoid the chaos of last winter. What we want is our best teams going out, winning All-Ireland's in any grade or any code. We should be the leading GAA county in the country. We're waiting for feedback from the clubs now to see will it be implemented."

Cork County Board chairman Jerry O'Sullivan said the board will examine the report and digest its content.

"We've received a copy and we'll read it, and see what it says. But this Friday we are meeting with delegates from all junior clubs, who have no representative other than divisional delegates. The meeting is on in Páirc Uí Chaoimh at 7.30pm and we'll listen to any issues and concerns that they have."

The forum report deals with three main areas – democratic structures, communication issues and development issues.

The report is seeking an overhaul of the democratic structures and the way business is conducted at county board level through five motions to be brought forward to convention by clubs.

The motions are "that each junior club has similar representations at county board level as senior and intermediate clubs" and that "save in relation to routine matters of administration such as fixtures, venues etc, delegates do not vote on any matter without first obtaining direction from the executive committee of their clubs as to which way they should vote".

Other motions include that secret ballots are no longer permitted, that every club has two votes for the election of board officers and that executive members can only serve a maximum six-year term.

The report also outlines how improvements can be made in the area of communication, citing the serious breakdown in communication as one of the prime reasons for the impasse earlier this year.

GAA merchandising is described "as almost nonexistent", while the new board website "is inadequate but with some proper planning it possesses huge potential".

"We need to be cognisant of how other sporting organisations, most notably the Munster Rugby Branch, market their products," the report says.

The forum also calls for all correspondence pertaining to GAA matters to be related to clubs through email and that the constitution of the board and its bye-laws are published online.

THE final area that the report explores is development issues, calling for a 10-year rolling development plan to be implemented for Cork GAA.

To improve Cork's underage record there have been calls for the development of a coordinated coaching and games development plan for the county, including the establishment of divisional games development committees, the creation of a centre of excellence including all-weather pitches and appointment of coaches to all schools.

It also calls for a Cork GAA Supporters Club to be established "to assist with fundraising and support for all Cork GAA activities".



This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, July 23, 2009

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/clubs-demand-changes-in-county-structures-97119.html#ixzz0M5VGpxGH


It's a start..

It will be interesting to see how the manager for 2010 is picked/ratified, although it shouldn't be a problem if none of the past dispute had anything to with the manager or player performance being hindered.
Of course I have to wonder why Donal og debated with Gerald on RTE radio about Gerald's ability or inability as a manager and coach and why players highlighted issues at their press conference. Let's be honest about this, if Gerald hadn't been appointed and someone agreeable to both the players and CB had there wouldn't have been  a strike in the first place. So if there are problems in Cork in general let's not kid ourselves that the strikers were on some noble mission. What most anti-strikers on here have alluded to or stated has been emphatically proven, that Cork weren't as good last year and this year as in previous years. The players refused to accept that. Yourself and others fell for the line and perpetuated it that the only thing holding back further success was Gerald and the man received villification without mercy. I have no doubt those strikers couldn't care less what way the CB was run as long as they got the decisions they wanted.

I'd be interested to learn more about these proposals you posted, how they came about, who met how they met, what minutes were kept, you know the kind of stuff we never found out about the 'clubs meeting' some months ago. If anything positive comes out of it well and good but if another body has been born so to speak that will be at loggerheads with the elected CB then ... As someone else said those proposals might be hard to implement.

[Reillers]

Some quotes from your good self Reiller just to jog your etch-a-sketch memory.

They've grined and put up with it for 2 years.

How about a man who can do his job. Players have to earn the jersey and proof their worth to keep it, they have to deserve it, to keep it. The same should apply for the manager. If a player plays poorly he's dropped, if a manager does badly and there is someone better to replace him, he too should be gotten rid of.

Was, was a great player (and is a legend for that) and WAS a good manager (both of which aren't fact but opinion) but he has struggeld clearly over the 2 years with the modern game. And his decisions, style of play, his choices when it came to team selection and subs and his trainng methods back that up, that he doesn't know how to coach in today's game. Like I said, if you could do your job well 20 years ago does that mean you could still do it well now and even if you couldn't does that mean you should be kept around because you could do it well back then. A lot of things have changed over the years and it's no shame to admit that managers like Gerald (and people like the fossils in the CB) couldn't change with it (and in the CB's case, wouldn't.)
He's not done much to prove himself at all in the 2 seasons, nothing that says he was a good manager. And to be honest, when it comes down to it, the great managers know when they're finished, when their time is up with  the team and they simply walk away, unlike Gerald, who is delusional thinking he can still work with these players.

The players have to be managed by the manager, it affects them 100%. These lads are giving up most of their time for this all year, they are sacrificing a lot. They are the ones it affects, it's got everything to do with them. Now should a player be able to pick the manager, no, and that's not what the players are trying to do either. But if a squad (30 people) who have been managed by him for 2 seasons turns around to the so called men in charge and tells them that it's not working out and it hasn't been for a long time, and that they don't want to play for him anymore, that should be listened to because at the end of the day, they are the ones if affects, they are the ones who are best placed to know aren't they?

Things change. At one stage months ago, Gerald going would have been enough

The truth is over this past 9 months you have covered all your bases when it comes to apportioning THE blame (well everybody bar the 2008 panel that is) so you may have said one thing but the next week said something contradictory. One minute it was Ger, next it was the CB, then just FM himself. A real moving target

Fact: You have said on umpteen occassions that Ger needed to go, so on the basis that you actually believed that (rather than it being THE problem) could you please answer the question I put to you now that you have the benefit of hindsight? Because whilst I agree that Galway were slightly stiffer opposition this year than last, the same could not be said about Cork. In fact I would say that Galway sensed weakness in the Cork team and that drove them on. I'm just wondering why Denis Walsh is not facing critisism for those quarters that joined in the witch hunt of Ger McCarthy. Surely released from the burden of having Ger McC as their manager, Corks performance level should have improved?

It has always been down to the actions of the CCB, I've said it from the very beggining. Gerald McCarthy needed to go because, ya he had been a poor manager, and I didn't hink he should have been reappointed, but the main reason he should have went was because he wasn't appointed in the right way and nothing would have been solved with him there. You picking bits here and there from random posts that are weeks/months apart is pointless. Gerald most take part of the blame in what happened, so must the players..like I've said many times before (oh wait apparently not if we listen to you) but from the start till now, it has always come down to the CCB.
Walsh had very little time with this team, he's a good coach, he's a fresh slate, and he didn't have time to make the team his own. He has good ideas, he's blooded some new players. People like him, he's doing well. He's not getting a "witch hunt" because there is no need for one. The "witch hunt" (for the 100th) time against "Ger McCarthy" WASN'T ABOUT GERALD MCCARTHY!! The strike wasn't really about Gerald as a manager, it was the way in which he was appointed. Why you still don't get that, or wont accept it more likely, I don't understand. But I refuse to be dragged into this, we've gone over this 100 times. You haven't caught on yet, hopefully you will one day, so I don't have to continue telling you the exact same thing over and over again. Get it through your brain. It was never about Gerald McCarthy as a manager. It was about the CCB and the way they appointed McCarthy.

[Reillers]

In response to you're question Skull..

Clubs demand changes in county structures

By Fintan O'Toole

Thursday, July 23, 2009

GRASSROOTS clubs in Cork have called for an immediate and widespread overhaul of county GAA structures in the wake of several recent high profile stand-offs between players and the board.

The Cork GAA Clubs Forum, which was established as a result of club grievances during last winter's bitter conflict, yesterday released its interim report, outlining the plans for the future development of Gaelic games in the county.

In a wide-ranging document, calls were made for all junior clubs to be represented at county board level, to model Cork GAA marketing plans on the successful Munster rugby brand model and to establish a supporters club to assist fundraising.

Cork GAA Clubs Forum chairman Tomás Ryan explained that the report was a result of extensive consultation with clubs around the county.

"A huge amount of work has gone into the report. There were a lot of genuine meetings with a lot of genuine GAA people.

"We met clubs from every division and there were a lot of frustrations. This is just a completely GAA report which covers areas right across the board. We e-mailed a copy of it to every club in the county on Tuesday night and to the county board executive.

"Everybody wants to avoid the chaos of last winter. What we want is our best teams going out, winning All-Ireland's in any grade or any code. We should be the leading GAA county in the country. We're waiting for feedback from the clubs now to see will it be implemented."

Cork County Board chairman Jerry O'Sullivan said the board will examine the report and digest its content.

"We've received a copy and we'll read it, and see what it says. But this Friday we are meeting with delegates from all junior clubs, who have no representative other than divisional delegates. The meeting is on in Páirc Uí Chaoimh at 7.30pm and we'll listen to any issues and concerns that they have."

The forum report deals with three main areas – democratic structures, communication issues and development issues.

The report is seeking an overhaul of the democratic structures and the way business is conducted at county board level through five motions to be brought forward to convention by clubs.

The motions are "that each junior club has similar representations at county board level as senior and intermediate clubs" and that "save in relation to routine matters of administration such as fixtures, venues etc, delegates do not vote on any matter without first obtaining direction from the executive committee of their clubs as to which way they should vote".

Other motions include that secret ballots are no longer permitted, that every club has two votes for the election of board officers and that executive members can only serve a maximum six-year term.

The report also outlines how improvements can be made in the area of communication, citing the serious breakdown in communication as one of the prime reasons for the impasse earlier this year.

GAA merchandising is described "as almost nonexistent", while the new board website "is inadequate but with some proper planning it possesses huge potential".

"We need to be cognisant of how other sporting organisations, most notably the Munster Rugby Branch, market their products," the report says.

The forum also calls for all correspondence pertaining to GAA matters to be related to clubs through email and that the constitution of the board and its bye-laws are published online.

THE final area that the report explores is development issues, calling for a 10-year rolling development plan to be implemented for Cork GAA.

To improve Cork's underage record there have been calls for the development of a coordinated coaching and games development plan for the county, including the establishment of divisional games development committees, the creation of a centre of excellence including all-weather pitches and appointment of coaches to all schools.

It also calls for a Cork GAA Supporters Club to be established "to assist with fundraising and support for all Cork GAA activities".



This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, July 23, 2009

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/clubs-demand-changes-in-county-structures-97119.html#ixzz0M5VGpxGH


It's a start..

It will be interesting to see how the manager for 2010 is picked/ratified, although it shouldn't be a problem if none of the past dispute had anything to with the manager or player performance being hindered.
Of course I have to wonder why Donal og debated with Gerald on RTE radio about Gerald's ability or inability as a manager and coach and why players highlighted issues at their press conference. Let's be honest about this, if Gerald hadn't been appointed and someone agreeable to both the players and CB had there wouldn't have been  a strike in the first place. So if there are problems in Cork in general let's not kid ourselves that the strikers were on some noble mission. What most anti-strikers on here have alluded to or stated has been emphatically proven, that Cork weren't as good last year and this year as in previous years. The players refused to accept that. Yourself and others fell for the line and perpetuated it that the only thing holding back further success was Gerald and the man received villification without mercy. I have no doubt those strikers couldn't care less what way the CB was run as long as they got the decisions they wanted.

I'd be interested to learn more about these proposals you posted, how they came about, who met how they met, what minutes were kept, you know the kind of stuff we never found out about the 'clubs meeting' some months ago. If anything positive comes out of it well and good but if another body has been born so to speak that will be at loggerheads with the elected CB then ... As someone else said those proposals might be hard to implement.

The strike was not about the players preformance, or them not accepting that they weren't as good as they were 10 years ago. It was because of a disagreement with the CCB. It was about the CCB's actions, just like it was in 2002, and 2007. How many more times does it have to be said before you get it through your skull?
No one said that Gerald was holding them back success wise. People said he was a poor manager, but that was nothing to do with the stand off. It became personal through the press. Gerald made statement after statement. The players got tired of it, so they had the press conference. They sat in front of the press, open to any questions. Neat and tidy. No more bitching or whining. A clear cut statement of what they felt was wrong. They then met the clubs and the clubs backed them 100%. They then after the first meeting with the players the clubs without the players or the CCB met in Clonakilty, and formed the forum.
It was established as a result of club grievances during last winter's bitter conflict.

And here's the entire thing.
http://www.filefront.com/14098627/Cork%20GAA%20Clubs%20Forum%20Interim%20Report%2021st%20July%202009%20R00.doc

[dowling]

Have to get a deeper look at that later Reillers but why the statement states it isn't the intent of the forum to be confrontational I would be slightly concerned that it might be impossible to avoid being so. While there is some positive language being used I would be a little concerned that this will be an opposing CB. Exactly how many clubs are involved and did everyone from the original meeting sign up to this?  But I'll look at it in depth more later.

But anyway do you think Cork hurling improved this year? And could you clear up once and for all, were the strikers training or not when they were on strike?

[dowling]

By The Players


Thursday March 12 2009

SOMETIME over the next week, Cork players from the 2008 and 2009 squads will meet in the same dressing-room as part of the new panel.

The '08 group will regard themselves as heroic figures who were prepared to lay down their careers on a point of principle. How will they view the '09 players whose willingness to fill the vacuum was, in effect, strike-breaking?

And how will the '09 players react to their high-profile colleagues? Will they be intimidated by them?

There's a new reality about the Cork panel now, one in which both the '08 and '09 squads are finished as individual groups. The '08 players, who stuck together with impressive loyalty all through the strike, will no longer be involved in their entirety.

New managements always make changes and, given Cork's failures at Munster and All-Ireland level last year, it's likely that between five and 10 of the '08 squad will have their county careers terminated. What's more, there could be some high-profile names on the casualty list.

It's a sobering thought for the '08 boys after being so close as a group throughout the last five fraught months. Clearly, they would like to remain together on the playing fields, but it won't happen.

The '09 panel is also finished as a group; indeed, they may have no more than four or five aboard the new panel. For the rest, their brief inter-county careers are over.

There's also a third group, comprised of players who weren't on the '08 squad, but who declined to join the new panel.

They will now be very keen to come aboard, content that they have no baggage, unlike the '08 and '09 groups.

Whoever is eventually appointed manager will have a difficult task in pulling all the strands together. There will, of course, be solemn declarations of intent about how the past is a different country and how the new squad will all pull together in a common cause.

They will try too but it would be stretching credibility to suggest tensions won't arise. After all, by making themselves available this year, the '09 players weakened the '08 campaign, albeit until the new team were clearly found to be way below the required standard.

The '08 group will be under intense pressure too.

By striking and putting their careers at risk they made a bold statement that McCarthy was not the man to lead them in a revival drive. They must now go out and prove that was a true reflection of the situation when, in fact, many believe that they -- and not McCarthy -- were the ones who weren't up to the job.

- The Players

From the Independent, note the last paragraph.

[deiseach]

It's all very well constantly typing words saying that it was all about the County Board and nothing to do with Gerald McCarthy the man / coach. But that's all they are: words. The actions of the players tell us that they went back to playing as soon as Gerald was gone. So while appreciating that Reillers is not one of the players nor one of their spokesmen, if we were to take his words at face value we would not be unreasonable in observing that the words do not match up with the deeds.

[Zulu]

The players said they wouldn't play for Gerald so where is the confusion? There were many things in relation to the running of Cork GAA that the players and the general Cork GAA public were unhappy about and the strike brought these to the surface but the strike was always about the players poor relationship with Gerald and the actions of the CCB reappointing him against the expressed wishes of the players.

[orangeman]

So Gerald took the lads to Croke Park last year only to fall to KK after putting it up to them for a good while.

The players turned round and said that he was no good and got rid of him for only managing a semi final.

Denis, the new man for this year, didn't manage to get the team outside of Thurles, and were out early doors.

Will Denis get another term ?
Will the players say he was no use and get rid if him if the CB reappoint him ?

[theskull1]

Zulu, if "the players" (I assume you mean them all rather than a choice few)  had such a poor relationship with Ger then how come they played no worse last year than they did this year? Surely being relieved of him would have brought these very same players on (both motivationally and coaching wise) considering noone has a bad word to say about Denis Walsh and his abilities as a manager and a coach?

It doesn't stack up in my mind

[anglocelt39]

So Gerald took the lads to Croke Park last year only to fall to KK after putting it up to them for a good while.

The players turned round and said that he was no good and got rid of him for only managing a semi final.

Denis, the new man for this year, didn't manage to get the team outside of Thurles, and were out early doors.

Will Denis get another term ?
Will the players say he was no use and get rid if him if the CB reappoint him ?

Feckit Orangeman don"t be going simplifying things like that

[dowling]

The players said they wouldn't play for Gerald so where is the confusion? There were many things in relation to the running of Cork GAA that the players and the general Cork GAA public were unhappy about and the strike brought these to the surface but the strike was always about the players poor relationship with Gerald and the actions of the CCB reappointing him against the expressed wishes of the players.

Ask Reillers Zulu.

Here's what you wrote after the Tipp match. "We won't know if there is an improvement in Cork's performances until they get to the QF at least."