McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

Oh sweet jesus reillers will you cop on and can you trymaking one reply, just one reply without telling us we know nothing about Cork

In 2002 they treated the players like nothing more then what you'd find at the bottom of your shoe.

The problem arose in the first place because of shoes, how ironic is that because down in Cork ye were all getting too big for your shoes, especially the ones on the sponsorship deals.

Where in the rule book or for that matter in the ethics of the GAA (outside of the GPA) is theree ever a reference to the word "STRIKE".  Answer: Nowhere, it is a Cork thing.

I was not referring to Clare as you suggest in your ramblings above, or your 100 repeat of the bullshit you have been coming out with over the last 400 pages, I was referring to the effect on all teams in the hurling league, including division two when a team/county have the arrogance to go on strike for half of it and effectively handing walk overs to some teams, and then, when their sulk is over, they decide to come back, when THEY decide, which is why Nicky Brennan should have thrown Cork out of the league and championship for two years. (I would have thrown them out for five)

I will repeat for you that I was told from a very senior person in a very well known club in Cork that there were sponsorship issues.  Do you want me to name who told me?

There was a directive from HQ that there was to be no winter training.  Yes, I do understand that teams train for fitness throughout the winter but when the papers did the story of Cork training it showed a Cork hurler running in a field with a hurley in his hand.  Now, it didn't say as it sometimes does in the papers "Picture Posed By Model" (although they probably could have anyway) so if the players were in a field training with hurls and a ball they were in breach of the directive, unless of course they were just doing gym work in the field and the picture used was just one from a sponsorship deal they were seeking and the used it at the time.  

Lastly, just because you don't think the Cork players have anything to apologise for says it all.  I actually give up.  Do you even realise the damage that has been caused to hurling, or that even the last letter of GAA stands for Association and that this applies on a 32 county basis, not just in Cork.  The answer to that I fear is no you don't.

The problem arose in the first place because the CCB were treating the players like dirt. The training facilities were ridiculous. Players more then once had to drive to matches because the CCB never booked the bus. There are so many examples I could use but I'm not going into it.
The players stood up against the CCB, got massive backing and board lost so much power have been bitter and full of hate ever since.
Ever since the CCB have been looking to get back at the players, and they have in 07 they made a decision knowing full well, that it would result in a strike, they made the decision anyway. They went out of their way to find a guy after managers kept on turning them down. That resulted in a strike because it's what the CCB wanted. The same thing happened in 08, the players said the ONE person out of all of Cork, that they didn't want as manager was Gerald, they worked with him for 2 seasons, it wasn't working out, they even needed a facilitator at one stage. So what do the CCB do, they reappoint him, not even in the proper way. The appoint him knowing full well that the players would walk. They made that decision hoping for another 07.

Now where in the above did the players get too big to for their shoes and what sponsorship deals?

What sponsorship deal are you on about now? Which so called sponsorship deal are you whining about now.

Is there some sort of rule where players can't refuse to play under a manager? Didn't think so. In 08 officially it was never a strike. But they stood up to a CCB that actually went out of it's way to upset them. They were the only ones who had the balls to do so. And they then inspired the rest of the clubs to get up off their backsides and for once stand up to a CCB that never listens to them.
They did what was needed. The CCB needed to know that they couldn't keep on getting away with their corrupt ways. But hey, no I get it now.
So you calling that arrogance, you are one of those who think that the good old shut up or put up attitude of the GAA where it doesn't matter how badly the players or clubs are being treated, no one should do anything because, well the players have no power.
And doing something, standing up against the ancient old ways where players were treated like crap is better then standing up against the corrupt powers is arrogance.
God knows what you most think of the people who are going on strike agianst the govt. decisions. They're all arrogant as well no doubt.
Well you and Frank Murphy would get along just fine. I mean it says a lot about you when you say when their "sulk is over" I mean, what most you think of the likes of O Grady, Allen, all the backroom teams, the players, the fans, the clubs, ALL clubs for that matter, who backed the hurlers. (You know that was for a reason, not just because they were "sulking." You really do have a pathetic opinion of every person in Cork GAA.) You really would fit in like family with good old Frank.
If that's the case, if that's your attitude then I pretty much give up now, you'd fit right in in the dictatorship of a meeting the CCB holds.

I'm sure you were told by Bob Joe from Cloyne about "sponsorships" but sure, I can tell you right now that that is bullshit.

There is nothing anywhere saying that people can train on their own, they are not allowed train as a panel. And they didn't, they did nothing wrong. And if you don't think that people up and down the country don't do the same. Then you are either incredibly naive or looking for just about anything to whinge about.

I asked you who showed they apologise to and for what, standing up against a corrupt board that would rather our team in the lowest division then our best players on the field, or a board that if you go against their view well there goes your funds for a new dressing room or a fixture for a match..etc.
They stood up against then, something which they were completley and entirely backed by every club in Cork, even the so called pro CB clubs didn't vote against the players.
They did something we should have done a long time ago and just because you are set in your old fossil ways means what that they should apologise. Why? And to who?

Like I said, it is crystal clear what your views of how the GAA should be run and something tells me you'd fit in perfectly with Frank Murphy and his puppets.

[Reillers]

Dowling hasn't been responsible for the 2008 panel looking bad - they've done a good job of it themselves. They allied themselves to all and sundry who were prepared to spew negatives about Gerald and the CB.

The thing that irks but doesn't surprise me is that not a negative word has been said about the CB and FM since the lads got back playing.


This thread won't have run its' course until all the unresloved issues and unresolved questions have been addresses and answered.

This might take a long time cos some of them require unsavoury answers which won't be forthcoming. You just can't say that it's over, let's move on, sure it was no big deal anyway much as some wouls wish that the thread would just get deleted.

And what are they supposed to say, I mean how stupid would that be, they're back playing, they've to work with these guys they can't constantly turn around and criticize them right left and centre either the clubs, despite their pure hate for the CCB. You can't do that. It'll only lead to a bigger mess.
But it is over, I'm sorry that you and Dowling all the rest of ye will have nothing to cry and whine about but for now, it's over. Like it or not. It's over and it will stay under the rug like 2002 and 07, until the CCB make another attempt to destroy the panel.

It's not over - the 2008 panel wanted FM out. They wanted changes to the CB, the way hurling was administered in the county - they haven't achieved any of this but are happy enough hurling away, getting ready for the championship.

There will be an AGM shortly - how many new candidates are being put forward ? How many changes will be made ?

It is over..for now.
Everyone, not just the panel wants FM, but FM leaves when FM wants to leave. No one can force him out, he cannot be fired or voted out, it's in his contract.
The clubs are the only ones who can make changes in the AGM, nothing to do with the players unless they go threw their clubs.
Now there could well be another forced strike next year or 5 years time with a new panel completley, time will tell, but until FM is gone there will be no peace.

There's a contradiction if ever I read one. How can you say that the dispute is over and everyone is happy and then say there won't be peace till he's gone ??

Fixed it for you seeing as your back to your old ways of well twisting my words, highlighted the bit you clearly forgot to highlight.

[orangeman]

It can't be over until the next time - either it's over or not.

[heffo]

Reillers give me examples of where I've insulted yourself or anyone else.
I'm not going to go over old ground but on the phone calls to Gerald the decent thing that the strikers could have done would have been to make an immediate statement condemning them and telling anyone thinking of such to refrain, that the strike, but more importantly Ger didn't deserve these calls. There's no other implication there, that just would have been the decent thing to do. I can't understand why they didn't as to do so would have been good PR for them but perhaps they didn't see that. I'm just wondering what your opinion is on that.
You can throw back in my face that I want Cork to do well if you like but you're not really debating anything. As far as I'm concerned the bullying of Teddy Holland last year, the bullying of Ger this year and the whole strike have done more damage to Cork than you realise. You and GAA stated some time ago that some rules should be broken but if some people can break some rules surely anyone can break any rule. And that's the way Cork GAA has been left by the strike, without 'good faith' and people prepared to get their own way regarless of the methods used or who gets hurt. Later in life there may be some of the strike leaders who will recall in manly tones about how they sorted out that Frank Murphy and Gerald McCarthy but I've no doubt there will be others who will have grave regrets about where they allowed themselves to be taken.
Whether you like it or not the effects of the strike are still there, there are issues arising from the strike and there are situations, like Brian Murphy's retirement, which may or may not be totally innocent but for some will be issues.
Now if you take anything in that as insulting it's not my intention.

Gerald again, they'd him for 2 years, it didn't work out.

That's quite arrogant of the strikers to think that it was Gerald's fault - how many of them stood up and took responsibility for the defeats in those two years?

[dowling]

Reillers the only one who's whining as you put it is yourself - whining that anyone who has a different view to you should dare to express it here. And in addition to that you present a view that most people, including the people in Cork, see as unreal.
The clubs might have been the deciding factor in the strike being brought to an end but it was with a gun to their heads and it wasn't in total agreement by any means with the strikers. Indeed some clubs went out of their way to dissassociate themselves from the strikers' view of Ger.
You go on about taking power back from the county board and you keep referring to players. I agree there, I think this is about player power.
But here's a question for you. Where do you get the negative energy?

[Reillers]

Again you not replying to my post. Shock horror, just nit picking as per usual.

So now the players control the clubs, of course they do. Anyone who backs the players most surely have an alterior motive. Because heaven forbid that they were actually backed for what they believed in and backed because they were right. You really think that little of the clubs, that a few "leaders" as you call it, can control that many people, you're talking about thousands at this stage. You either think very very little, shit on the bottom of the shoe little, of the clubs or very highly of the so called power that the likes of Donal Og had.

The clubs, didn't have to do anything, the players have no impact on them, no control over them. The IC scene has gotten in their way many times now, it' sbeen an inconvenience and caused many upsets and arguements about timing of club games and such. The clubs didn't have to do anything. The players didn't make the chairmen and co, who were at the meeting when they met with the players, stand up and vent their anger for a long, long time. The players expected a room full of hate and hostility at them, I think everyone did. And you'd know that if you knew the inner working, or any workings for that matter, of Cork GAA. The clubs find the IC scene an obsticle that has cause them grief in the past.
No one was "holding a gun" to any of the people there, no one forced them to rant about the CCB for nearly the entire time they were there, no one made them give a standing ovation when the players walked in and out of the room.
No one made the clubs meet on their own with no players present or CCB delegates..etc. and again vent about the CCB.
No one made every club that voted vote entirely for the players. Even the so called pro CCB didn't vote against the players.
No one made them come back with a massive majority backing for the players.

But tell me, how is all that, how is that massive standing ovation they got going into the room, mean that they were having a gun held to their head. Obviously someone was forcing them to do it right. Another mystical hold by Donal Og right, because surely the clubs weren't actually backing the players. God no because that just couldn't be possible because that goes against your opinion and we all know that that is the only one that you thinks matters.

Here is where everyone who apparently knows nothing about Cork hurling but everything about the debacle fall down. They do not understand the clubs, and they don't know where they stand on it.
The clubs gave their 100% backing to the players.
I mean you underestimate the pure hatred the clubs have for the board, it's almost funny, because you simply, and you're not alone, don't understand how much hate there is, how many bridges the CCB, Frank Murphy really, has burned. The clubs have NO power, NO voice, their delegates don't represent them and FM doesn't care or respect them, he holds them all at ransom. And that is down to Frank Murphy.  

It's not about player power, but it is about power. The CCB has all the power. I mean the clubs have no voice at all because the CB took it away, the players gave them their voice back. They were all in a room where they could say absolutely anything they wanted without fear of ramifications.
And they did, they vented and raged about Frank Murphy, the Cb. No one made them do that. No one. This was their chance to have a voice, and no one was going to stop them saying how they felt and voting how they viewed. The one democratic thing that thas happened in Cork GAA in a long, long time.
I mean that energy, that energy that was felt in Cork over those weeks, when the build up was growing, it was fantastic. I mean when the clubs actually had a say, the energy and the atmoshpere was great. For the first time in a long, long time their voices would be heard. And they would have went all the way until that convenient resignation was presented. But that time was the only time that the clubs had a true voice and the feeling in Cork becaues of that, I hope it's one we feel again. And it's one I can't describe.

None of what you say above is true. And I could spend hours, and I have trying to explain this part to ye, but ye simply don't get it. The players had 100% backing, a handful of clubs didn't vote before the clubs went back to the clubs, their delegates tried to delay it in many cases despite want to back the players. But everyone that did vote backed the players, and 90% of the time it was totally unanimous and it in no cases was it ever a close it a vote.

So tell me where exactly was there a gun being held to the clubs head, was it when the players were met with a rapturous standing ovation by the clubmen or when the club men were venting and ranting about the CCB or was it when the clubs of Cork voted completley in favour of the players?

So who made who do what exactly?
I'd actually like an answer to this post if that's not too much to ask, not nit picking, not saying it's too long, repetitve, blah, blah blah, no excuses, just please, this time, for once reply to the post fully.

[Bud Wiser]

Instead of telling all us poor mortals that we know nothing about Cork Gaa, and it would be a fair guess to say that there are many like me who no longer want to know, and since you are a fully paid up member of your club and a staunch supporter (not fan) of Cork and since you would therefore know Frank Murphy's home address and his address at county board level, would you be prepared to write him a letter with your real name on it saying (ACCUSING) him of being involved in criminality by holding the GAA/Gaa Clubs in Cork to ransom?   Yes or no, because there is only two answers to that question - yes or no and you are talking more about what you would find on the botom of a shoe, which seems to be your new found terminology of things if your asnswer is that you would not write the letter.  So now, post here an open letter that you have sent or will send to Frank Murphy stating that he is holding Cork Gaa to ransom.That is a very very serious allegation to make and if you are not careful the ones who made the phone call to Gerald McCarthy, the ones that held him to public ridicule by saying he was old and senile and could not remember the names of the players or the clubs they came from and the ones who are now making allegations of ransom which is one of the most serious criminal offences you can be charged with might all soon be swopping the new tracksuits for striped pyjamus and sharing the same cells.

[Reillers]

Are you serious that's your actual response? I can't decide if it's childish or pathetic, a bit of both I suppose. Anyone with any sort of brain would know I wasn't being literal. You should know what I mean but you don't even know the football manager's name. FM wrote the rule book he knows where the line is and how to get around it. nothing he does can ever be proven, things like, that's how your voting, right did I mention that we never recieved your clubs entrance form what a pity. Pure intimidation.

[Bud Wiser]

Well {I seem to have hit a nerve there Reillers ! Just goes to show that the arrogance is still plentiful when it comes to self opinionated beliefs like you have.  You can make accusations from behind a keyboard and then throw a wobbler when you are challenged on it, yet, if someone says anything about the Cork hurlers we know nothing.  

Anyone with any sort of brain would know I wasn't being literal.

Anyone with the best brain in the world could not decipher some of the shite you have come out with over the last 400 pages.

Before I say anymore, and for the record, thats twice in two posts you have reminded me that I don't know the name of the Cork football manager.  One reason I didn't know was because his name slipped my mind for a second at the time I made the post and I am not into the Google/Copy & Paste antics you get into.  The second reason I didn't know was because I could not give a flying fiddlers f**k who the Cork Manager, of either team was.

Now, to get back to the nitty gritty of things. First you say FM is holding Cork GAA to ransom, then you suggest he is circumventing the rules  by fraudulently alleging that clubs who send in entrance forms are told they were never received.  That being the case the man should be on Spike Island instead of the county board.  I am finding it a little easier to understand how ye lot down there can not understand a rule book, no matter who wrote it, that every other county can understand, it's not exactly written in Russian Braille now is it.  More a case of being beyond your brain power I'd say not being up to it.  

One day you are saying that this whole episode is over. The same day you are ridiculing FM because he is holding the players to ransom and is an intimidator.  So not alone is it not over but there could be another strike on the way and that is why I still say Cork should be thrown out of this years championship and next years league and championship.  And I will tell you something else, ye would not be missed judging by the way Kilkenny and Tipp and Offaly and Wexford dragged hurling from the muddy position your county lowered it to back up to its rightful place of being one of the most exciting and skillful games in the world yesterday.

[orangeman]

And I will tell you something else, ye would not be missed judging by the way Kilkenny and Tipp and Offaly and Wexford dragged hurling from the muddy position your county lowered it to back up to its rightful place of being one of the most exciting and skillful games in the world yesterday.

 


Au contraire, I'd say Reillers would reckon Cork would have beat the pick of them. 

[Bud Wiser]

Au contraire, I'd say Reillers would reckon Cork would have beat the pick of them. 

So they would - at getting sponsorship deals and cars, there won't be a camera flash bulb left in any shop or chemist in Munster when they eventually get around to beating anyone.

[orangeman]

Au contraire, I'd say Reillers would reckon Cork would have beat the pick of them. 

So they would - at getting sponsorship deals and cars, there won't be a camera flash bulb left in any shop or chemist in Munster when they eventually get around to beating anyone.

But surely the 2008 strikers / 2009 strikers are well entitled to go and do all these behind backs deals, pocket the money, carry on their commercial activities, stage well timed strikes, train on their own, have their own uniforms, stage press conferences, hijack GAA rules, "lean" on legitimate targets, leak stories to the press,make phonecalls, arrange a boycott of matches, have the 2009 young lads branded scabs etc, have the sitting manager and his family become the target of sinister elements in order to be forced out of his job, appear on Primetime and every other available media outlet, arrange protest marches plus a lot of other stuff. I could do on.


Really what was wrong with it ?

[Reillers]

Well {I seem to have hit a nerve there Reillers ! Just goes to show that the arrogance is still plentiful when it comes to self opinionated beliefs like you have.  You can make accusations from behind a keyboard and then throw a wobbler when you are challenged on it, yet, if someone says anything about the Cork hurlers we know nothing.  

Anyone with any sort of brain would know I wasn't being literal.

Anyone with the best brain in the world could not decipher some of the shite you have come out with over the last 400 pages.

Before I say anymore, and for the record, thats twice in two posts you have reminded me that I don't know the name of the Cork football manager.  One reason I didn't know was because his name slipped my mind for a second at the time I made the post and I am not into the Google/Copy & Paste antics you get into.  The second reason I didn't know was because I could not give a flying fiddlers f**k who the Cork Manager, of either team was.

Now, to get back to the nitty gritty of things. First you say FM is holding Cork GAA to ransom, then you suggest he is circumventing the rules  by fraudulently alleging that clubs who send in entrance forms are told they were never received.  That being the case the man should be on Spike Island instead of the county board.  I am finding it a little easier to understand how ye lot down there can not understand a rule book, no matter who wrote it, that every other county can understand, it's not exactly written in Russian Braille now is it.  More a case of being beyond your brain power I'd say not being up to it.  

One day you are saying that this whole episode is over. The same day you are ridiculing FM because he is holding the players to ransom and is an intimidator.  So not alone is it not over but there could be another strike on the way and that is why I still say Cork should be thrown out of this years championship and next years league and championship.  And I will tell you something else, ye would not be missed judging by the way Kilkenny and Tipp and Offaly and Wexford dragged hurling from the muddy position your county lowered it to back up to its rightful place of being one of the most exciting and skillful games in the world yesterday.

I'm not sure you even know what the word arrogance means at this stage looking at the way you use it.

You know what you're doing, trying to draw attention away from my other post that no one can answer, how no one can explain the clubs backing the players.
I'll say it again, if it's not too much for your brain to handle.

You don't get it and you're not willing to even try and understand the workings of the clubs.

FM wrote the rule book, every time anyone tries to question the power of the CCB, any time something is brought to the table, like having the clubs have more say, it's ruled out of order or, despite what the clubs send their delegates in with the delegates vote the other way for one of two reasons, they're either in FM's pocket or because they're afraid.
For too long have delegates acted on their own views and not the clubs, and the clubs have ignored it because well standing up and asking questions comes at a price, suddenly the funds for the new dressing rooms are unavailable, terrible times we're in with that economy.
Or the old passive comments like oh, that's how you're voting, right..oh forgot to mention, those forms ye sent in, we didn't get them at all, to bad they needed to be in by yesterday.

Threats, intimidation, that are more like comments then anything when they're on their own, because nothing that can be proved, but everyone knows what happens. Everyone knows and no one has ever stood up to them like the players have. Maybe it's not their place. But someone has to put the CB back in their little box before they kill GAA in Cork completly.

The fury and anger vented at the CCB in the meetings with the players is what happens when their voice is taken away for years. The players gave them back their voices, they gave them an opportunity to come and meet all the other chairmen in one room and the players.
The players expected to get ambushed and to be met with hostility, but all they got was complete support, a massive standing ovation at the start and at the end. They did very little talking that night, they commented at the start, made their statement and opened it to the floor and from then on it was up to the clubs to say as they wished and it was an incredibly revealing night for Cork GAA. Of course the CB refused to even comment on it and said that it doesn't matter at all what they, the clubs think, because they have no power. Pretty much word for word as what was said.

You say you don't give a "flying fiddlers" about who the Cork managers are, either football or hurling, well it really does say it all, you're nothing but a poser who knows nothing about Cork but apparently everything about what happened.

You've proven from your posts that you are incredibly biased, that you know very little about Cork GAA and that you seem to hate all things Cork, and anyone from Cork for that matter.

You don't go into a hurling topic without bashing them.
You make up stories about sponsorships and show no proof whatsoever to attempt to back up those fairytales.
You bash the Cork hurlers and Cork every time you comment anywhere on this site.
You say with a passion over and over again that they should be thrown out, unjustly, but thrown out anyway because for the simple fact that you don't like them.
You say they wont be missed, and truthfully, you've proved that you aren't even a hurling man from that, because no true hurling man would say that. Not even the ones who hate us as much as you do.
And you say that they are arrogant in standing up for what's right, which makes you no better then Frank Murphy, the most hated man in Cork GAA.
It says a hell of a lot about you.

And by the way, Spike Island closed a long time ago.  

You are just another know it all who in truth clearly knows very, very little about Cork, who's posts are based on pure hate and nothing else. I mean you could at least attempt to make your comments look less ridiculous by attempting to back them up, at least it would make you look less childish and hateful anyway. But instead you come across as just another OM with your comments like that.

But I know that you're not even going to reply to this post, probably just go back to childish insults and such as per usual along with straying off the subject, all very predictable and tiring at this stage.

[dowling]

Reillers why cant you just calmly and truthfully put arguments forward without all the abuse and melodramatics. You're trying very hard to revise recent history.
For a start there was never 100% backing for the strikers throughout the county. At the standing ovation meeting there was a large number of clubs not in attendance and this has been gone over in past pages and there was never a meeting where all the clubs were in attendance. At no stage did the clubs agree that the strikers had taken the correct course of action or on a particular problem in Cork. If you want to project harmony in Cork in relation to the clubs recent past or present throw up one statement from any Cork source to prove your point because I have previously quoted Cork sources explaining there is division and division that will be there for some time to come.
Of course the strikers were holding a gun to the head of Cork. They were saying if they weren't backed there wouldn't be silverware in the county knowing how much the county craves and is used to success. What they got was clubs deciding that success was all important.
And let's get this power thing straight. If the strikers say they want rid of a manager and the clubs put pressure on the CCB to do just that then that is player power. Those players - in this case strikers - set the agenda and say to the clubs if you want us to play for the county then you have to achieve for us want we want. I made the point long ago that the GPA were looking to have a pressure group type status within the GAA and this is what's going on in Cork with a small group of thirty individuals being able to have the county manipulated at their behest. Out of how many members in Cork? No other group of thirty individuals could come together to have any chance of effecting such change. And you think that's democracy!
As for delegates. If clubs fear Frank having anything over them the solution is to make sure everything is done properly. A cynic might say that if clubs can't look after their own business properly then the more control the CB have would probably be for the better.
You know Reillers it's not rocket science. If I know there's a controversial subject coming up at my club's AGM and I want to vote on it I don't go to the meeting without my subs paid.
If the CB say a motion is out of order according to the rules and no one can show otherwise then it must be out of order. The problem with yourself and others is that you think things can be done on the hoof with no regard to future effects or consequences. You've been going on and on about the clubs - misrepresenting them of course - but you conviently overlook it's the clubs who approve and pass the rules, often after lengthy debate.
Everyone in Cork might want to move this situation on but everyone is by no means over this as you suggest. It will be interesting to see if anything is put forward at club AGMs in future in relation to this whole situation. If asked now I doubt if too many clubs would support another strike for whatever reason.

[Zulu]

Reillers you'd be better off not posting on this thread anymore, all you're doing is fuelling the the fire and like the others you're not posting anything new or anything we didn't know already. I'd doubt too many posters even check this thread much anymore and if they do it is only to quickly glance through to see if anything new has been posted, which hasn't happened in a long time now. You're no longer serving any purpose except to allow those who want to post their faux-outrage about the Cork hurlers the canvas to do so. They have their minds made up and nothing you say will change them in any way, and while they are entitled to their opinion, their repeated attempts to keep this argument going is tiresome as are your repeated attempts to defend the Cork players. If you display a maturity the others are seemingly incapable of and refuse to take the bait they'll soon tire of talking to themselves and who knows a chat about championship hurling might break out.