McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

We all know (including Bobby) where you're from - don't see what the big deal is..

only seems to be one man interested in or making a big deal out of it...

I haven't seen you since you referred to my post as nonsense and I asked you to clarify who leaked info to the media first..

would say McCarthy was the first to leak confidential info with the team meeting stuff in a bid to regain some credability. who knows and does it matter now?

You would say?

Perhaps you should check your facts in future before referring to what someone posts as 'nonsense'

The Kieran Shannon article was the first article to appear in the national media - this article contained all the "white bread in Dungarvan/outdated drills/disciplining Donal Og and poor aul Donal only allowed the one representative" etc -

In response to this article, Ger Mac leaked the dossier

Please check your facts in future.

Heffo try and get a bit of perspective for the love of God. Shannon had a few words, all he said was the truth really, he said what the players said and if I remember right he didn't quote anyone, all that it was was a few lines saynig what we all knew, that Gerald was a bad manager, and what was said, it wasn't by far the first time most of us in Cork had heard it. We all heard about him not knowing the names of some of the players..etc.
Nothing new.
Gerald, he leaked a confidential sensitive document that destroyed any hope of reconciliation, I can tell you that some young players especially, who might have been having a few doubts about it, were infuriated by it. He lost whatever little trust was left. He leaked it, in the purpose of making the players looked 2 faced, never mentioning that it was something where they HAD to say positive personal things about him. It was a document that was done by the facilitator, that according to Gerald wasn't a facilitator at all,   that was brought in, something that was suggested by the players, because they weren't getting on, and it was done to build trust and try to build up a relationship. Gerald then leaked it, and never once denied it. He was the only one with a copy.
And when he was confronted he didn't deny it, he said, I think, no comment.

Gerald ruined whatever chance of reconciliation that was left, and it's ridiculous trying to compare one with the other and justifying it. You're not a child. You can see, surely the difference here.
What you're doing, it's like comparing a slap in the face to stabbing someone in the heart. And trying to jusfity it.
Come of it like.

In one article the biographer of Corcoran and future biographer of the Sean Og, Donal Og and Sully destroyed the reputation of Ger Mac

Bull, stop with the dramatics, it was about 4 or 5 lines and if you let if destroy his reputation you are very gullable.
And with all due respect to Gerald, he was not a good manager, even with people who backed him to the end in the fight, they all pretty much admited that. And like I said most of us all ready heard about that.
What was said was the truth, and we'd heard it long before that was printed, it was Gerald's own fault that he didn't know what clubs some were from or who some of the players were, it's his responsibilty to know and he didn't, that was down to him, it was just said out loud.

And like I said it's nothing compared to the doccument that was leaked by Gerald. You're not a child, surely you can see that. You can't possibly be trying to justify that.

[heffo]

We all know (including Bobby) where you're from - don't see what the big deal is..

only seems to be one man interested in or making a big deal out of it...

I haven't seen you since you referred to my post as nonsense and I asked you to clarify who leaked info to the media first..

would say McCarthy was the first to leak confidential info with the team meeting stuff in a bid to regain some credability. who knows and does it matter now?

You would say?

Perhaps you should check your facts in future before referring to what someone posts as 'nonsense'

The Kieran Shannon article was the first article to appear in the national media - this article contained all the "white bread in Dungarvan/outdated drills/disciplining Donal Og and poor aul Donal only allowed the one representative" etc -

In response to this article, Ger Mac leaked the dossier

Please check your facts in future.

Heffo try and get a bit of perspective for the love of God. Shannon had a few words, all he said was the truth really, he said what the players said and if I remember right he didn't quote anyone, all that it was was a few lines saynig what we all knew, that Gerald was a bad manager, and what was said, it wasn't by far the first time most of us in Cork had heard it. We all heard about him not knowing the names of some of the players..etc.
Nothing new.
Gerald, he leaked a confidential sensitive document that destroyed any hope of reconciliation, I can tell you that some young players especially, who might have been having a few doubts about it, were infuriated by it. He lost whatever little trust was left. He leaked it, in the purpose of making the players looked 2 faced, never mentioning that it was something where they HAD to say positive personal things about him. It was a document that was done by the facilitator, that according to Gerald wasn't a facilitator at all,   that was brought in, something that was suggested by the players, because they weren't getting on, and it was done to build trust and try to build up a relationship. Gerald then leaked it, and never once denied it. He was the only one with a copy.
And when he was confronted he didn't deny it, he said, I think, no comment.

Gerald ruined whatever chance of reconciliation that was left, and it's ridiculous trying to compare one with the other and justifying it. You're not a child. You can see, surely the difference here.
What you're doing, it's like comparing a slap in the face to stabbing someone in the heart. And trying to jusfity it.
Come of it like.

In one article the biographer of Corcoran and future biographer of the Sean Og, Donal Og and Sully destroyed the reputation of Ger Mac

Bull, stop with the dramatics, it was about 4 or 5 lines and if you let if destroy his reputation you are very gullable.

And like I said it's nothing compared to the doccument that was leaked by Gerald. You're not a child, surely you can see that. You can't possibly be trying to justify that.

Kieran Shannon goes behind the scenes on the latest crisis to envelope Cork hurling

On the march: Cork's players almost unanimously decided they needed a change from Gerald McCarthy whose training just wasn't working
Last Thursday night in the Sunset Ridge Hotel shortly before the Cork hurling panel of 2008 took a secret ballot on whether to approve of Gerald McCarthy's reappointment, the meeting's chairman and team captain John Gardiner spoke of how he could empathise with the younger players in the room. Where they were now was exactly where he had been in the John Barleycorn Inn in Riverstown in 2002.

It had been his first year with Cork. The side had been dumped out of the Munster championship in their very first game, they had exited the championship itself after a humiliating nine-point defeat and all year there had been tension with the board and the management. But he thought the year had been great! He'd played in a league final, a couple of massive championship games in Thurles; played alongside his idols; this was the dream. A few months on and he was being handed a piece of paper to sign to withdraw his services as a Cork hurler. "And you know, lads, what was the very first thing that crossed my mind? 'Jesus, what is my dad going to say?'"

But that initial thought was countered by an overriding one. The veterans were certain they were doing the right thing. And this wasn't about their own future but the likes of Gardiner and his. Fergal Ryan never played for Cork again after that famous Imperial Hotel press conference, Mark Landers neither. This was about something bigger than all of them. So he signed it, just like everyone else. "Do I ever regret it?" Gardiner said last Thursday. "It was the best thing I ever did. I had the four best years of my career and my life."

Now they faced a similar choice. This wasn't about replicating or yearning for the past but fighting for and securing the future. A few minutes later that secret ballot was taken, the vote, 27-2 against the board's reappointment of McCarthy. Almost totally unanimous. Just like 2002 and the John Barleycorn.

But how were they there again? How did they get back to here?

? ? ?

At the start Gerald didn't want it and they didn't want him. They had a winning formula, one that facilitated them to become the first Munster county in over 60 years to contest four consecutive All Ireland finals; not even Cody's Kilkenny had managed that. But then when he had accepted it they had to accept him. Along with Jimmy Barry Murphy he was the county's most decorated player since Ring. At his first meeting with them he told them only the managerial faces had changed; the managerial systems would be merely tweaked, not dismantled; he was into evolution, not revolution.

The old doubts though weren't long resurfacing. When the team showed up at Lawlor's Hotel in Dungarvan before a Waterford Crystal game that January, their pre-match meal consisted of a plate of sandwiches loaded with butter and mayonnaise. Under O'Grady and Allen, pre-match food would have consisted of chicken, pasta, yoghurt and fruit, the kind of preparatory detail which the cyberspace cynics bash the likes of Cusack and Ó hAilpín for yet laud the likes of O'Connell and O'Gara for. Later that same afternoon against Waterford, Cusack took a short puck-out which had been intercepted and driven over Cusack's crossbar and at half-time he had his knuckles wrapped by McCarthy for not going long. As the players made their way out for the second half, Cusack discreetly said to McCarthy that he had read the situation as he'd seen it and he'd probably do the same again.

The following day McCarthy called Cusack to say that exchange had been a breach of discipline, undermining his position as coach. Cusack pointed out that if there was to be a meeting with management on such a disciplinary issue, he was entitled to have another player accompany him; under the previous system, which McCarthy had said he was going to retain, such a protocol had been established so players wouldn't be left in a three or four-to-one scenario. Eventually no such meeting took place, though Cusack was dropped for the tournament final against Tipperary the following week.

They felt training wasn't up to scratch either. Like most coaches, Gerald would do the standard middle-man drill. One man by one touchline, another by the other and one in the middle, who the other two work. Under Seanie McGrath's supervision, you were in there for 40 seconds, max, just like a period of play in a game; in, out, high-tempo, match-intensity stuff. Now you'd be in for three minutes; after pucking four or five balls, your intensity naturally sagging.

One drill was of particular concern to the players. Six men in one line facing infield, six in another facing them, between them, six poles in a straight line for them to solo zig-zag through. Player One goes. Solo in open space for a few yards, negotiate the six poles, solo in some more open space for a few yards, pass the ball off to the man first in line and then go back to the end. Players felt they were standing around idle for too long waiting for their next go.

When the players convened a meeting last October to discuss the county board's controversial decision to remove the next football manager's right to appoint his own selectors, the topic of whether to remove McCarthy as hurling manager was floated. In the end, they agreed it would be premature to move against him, especially as McCarthy, to his credit, had initiated a review meeting with player representatives in which he was open to change and ideas.

The Sunday after this year's Munster semi-final defeat to Tipperary though, the notion was touted again at a meeting of the players reps. Training had improved but only marginally so. They also found his relationship and familiarity with too many players odd to say the least. On 25 May, two weeks before the Tipp game, they played Galway in a challenge game. An hour or so before, McCarthy and his namesake Timmy found themselves walking down the tunnel together. The two had shared a strained relationship for the previous 12 months on the back of the manager hauling the player off within 15 minutes of introducing him as a sub against Waterford in Thurles but now Gerald struck up a conversation. The previous night in the local county championship Bride Rovers had snatched a draw against Ballinhassing thanks to an injury-time score from Brian Murphy. "Well, Timmy, ye pulled it out of the bag last night!"

"Sorry, Gerald, what do you mean, boy?" His club was Castlelyons, always had been.

In the lead-up to the same Tipp game, Gerald, in a team meeting, talked about the movement he wanted for puckouts and referred to a great run one forward had made in a challenge game against Waterford in Mallow on 11 May. One problem. As the same player admitted in the showers to a teammate that night, he wasn't even playing that night. Who was Gerald mistaking him for? Whose place could he be taking? More worryingly, who could be taking his?

The lead-in to the Tipp game had also been the most fractured they could remember for a first-round championship game. Normally they'd have a three-week run-in in which the tone for the entire championship would be set. This year, with all those club games, they only came together 12 days beforehand. Instead of tapering down in the last week as they would under Seanie McGrath, they were cramming. But, they accepted, that wasn't Gerald's fault and it was agreed it was better to work with him.

On the surface, on match day, he deserved such support. The Galway win was magical and a big factor in that was McCarthy's ingenious use of Cathal Naughton, totally outwitting his old adversary, Ger Loughnane. Against Clare, he made the right moves too. But after they lost to Kilkenny, heavily, the players felt chickens had come home to roost. They hadn't deserved to beat Kilkenny, either on the day or in the lead up to it. That summer Gerald had instructed the players to be on the field for training at 10 to seven every night yet too often he wasn't there. And when it had started, it was still too pedestrian and that was reflected in their hurling. The sharpness wasn't there to compete with Kilkenny.

"People say the players want to run the show, that they won't listen to anyone,'" says one player. "But under [Donal O'] Grady, we were more than happy to do what we were told. It was reflected on the field. We didn't have the same confidence in Gerald's coaching."

It was a judgement which they didn't want or think they'd have to declare. The mood within the county in September was that Gerald would get out after an average if respectable stint, but when the two players representatives, Cusack and Ó hAilpín, met with the five other members of the selection committee at a meeting in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Friday, 10 October, Gerald's was the only name the five raised. At one point county chairman Mick Dolan left to establish by phone if McCarthy was interested and McCarthy verified he was.

The players acknowledged that, but said they were here to talk about processes, not personalities. How would they go about seeking the best man and system for the job? Would there be a shortlist? Interviews? It's how it worked in other counties, including Tyrone with Mickey Harte's appointment. The board informed them that wasn't how Cork operated. And sure hadn't they seen how it had worked in Limerick, with Tom Ryan issuing legal writs, and the whole media circus that went with all the speculation over the shortlist. And who would be on theirs? Give names. The players declined, saying again, this was about establishing a process, but as they left, they knew the board had only one man in mind. That Sunday night there was a meeting of the players reps, who all contacted players in their sub-unit to gauge their opinion on the prospect of Gerald being retained. The overwhelming mood was that it was time for a new man.

This was relayed to the board at a further meeting between their five members of the selection committee and the players' two delegates, but again it was dismissed. At a further meeting this day two weeks ago, the board reiterated Cork and Gerald had been unlucky this past two years, including against Kilkenny. "I laughed when I heard that," says one player. "Unlucky? We were hammered. Maybe we were unlucky Kilkenny didn't get the dates mixed up or their bus didn't crash. Otherwise luck had nothing to do with it." At that Cusack and John Gardiner outlined the blunt truth. In the squad's opinion their preperation wasn't adequate, and the following evening at a private meeting facilitated in selector Donie Collins's house in Blackrock, they made their position clear to Gerald. McCarthy was visibly upset at that, but made it clear he was going to accept the post.

That same night Gardiner and Cusack called another meeting of the players for 10.30 in the Commons Inn Hotel to update their colleagues on developments and if their message to Gerald accurately gauged that of the group. They were informed that they had, and if needs be, all 30 of them would deliver it. Such a message would have to be delivered before the following night's county board meeting though, and all 30 couldn't do it because of work commitments. Instead, after McCarthy had taken a call at 12.30 that night, nine players met him in the Imperial Hotel at 10.30 that Tuesday morning.

As Gardiner and Cusack had spoken to him the previous day, this time Seán Óg Ó hAilpín was the first to address Gerald. This, he said, had nothing to do with him as a person, father, respected businessman and former playing great, but they felt he wasn't the right man for the job. McCarthy disputed that, citing his five All Irelands as a player and his record with Cork and St Finbarr's as a coach and trainer in the early '80s and '90s and his time with Waterford. Ó hAilpín said that was all fine and good but they were going on what they'd seen the previous two years.

Niall McCarthy seconded the motion, saying at 63, a player and man of such standing did not need such hassle. Joe Deane asked how could he have faith in an appointments process in which the views of the players had been completely discarded? What hurt McCarthy the most though was the interjection of Ronan Curran, who wondered how McCarthy could say either he or the players had enjoyed the past two years, and how could they enjoy the next two. That really wounded him. A fellow Barrs man saying that. And Gardiner, Cusack and Ó hAilpín too. He'd backed Seán Óg and Donal Óg to the hilt through Semplegate. He'd made Gardiner captain. This was their gratitude? At that, his mind was made up and left. He and Cork would be back with the cuckoo but not with those cuckoos.

So, that's how they're back where they are. Another faceoff with the board, with another coach and loyal servant of Cork caught in the crossfire. The players' vote in the Sunset Ridge would indicate that if Gerald wants 30 players next year, he'll have to look for another 30 outside those who were in that room that night, but privately they'll accept this latest battle will be the greatest test of their unity and willpower. The board know the players will struggle to get the backing of the public on this one now they're two years without reaching an All Ireland final, even though the players will justifiably argue it's because a system was dismantled and then imposed upon them that has led to that wait. That is the players' dilemma. The longer they go on without winning silverware, the less support they have for change, yet the more change is needed.

The players aren't blameless. Sometimes their bluntness isn't the virtue they think it is and they could have adopted a more diplomatic approach in their dealings with McCarthy. But it's a sad state of affairs, when a sporting body appears to be more anxious to see its players retire rather than win. This is about power alright, and not necessarily player power.

kshannon@tribune.ie

October 26, 2008

--------------

Earth to Reillers - come back to reality for five minutes please - 4/5 lines?? are you for real?

[Reillers]

He's quoted them about 4 times, and that isn't really an answer is it, it's you posting that article. It's the truth, it's harsh, but it's the truth. Like I said it was down to Gerald to know the players names, clubs they were at..etc. But he didn't, it was just said out loud, something, like I said, we'd all heard before.

It's nothing compared to the document that was leaked by Gerald. Surely you're able to see that.

I've to get back to work, spent way to much time doing nothing today. Lol. So hopefully by then you'll be at the point where you can see that, because like I said, well presumed, you're not a child and surely you can see the massive difference.

[heffo]

He's quoted them about 4 times, and that isn't really an answer is it, it's you posting that article. It's the truth, it's harsh, but it's the truth. Like I said it was down to Gerald to know the players names, clubs they were at..etc. But he didn't, it was just said out loud, something, like I said, we'd all heard before.

It's nothing compared to the document that was leaked by Gerald. Surely you're able to see that.

I've to get back to work, spent way to much time doing nothing today. Lol.

The whole thing is a press release from the SIPTU chief of staff - surely you realise that?

[Tatler Jack]

Reillers glad you're now acknowledging Donal og not playing his best but I don't agree his shot stopping is as good and Waterford could have had at least another goal. I accept Walsh is his own man but I just wonder as this was a 'meaninless' league game were there any factors that caused him not to give another keeper a go.

I never said he wasn't, I said it was harsh to judge him on one or two games. I've said for an age that Coleman should be given a go in goals, I watched him with his club for years, I've great time for him, a very determined lad, and I'd love to see him have a go in goals, not just as a sub, but Walsh wants to cement what is  potentially a very strong defence, and he'll probably go with experience in goal, there's no doubt about it really. I don't know why he played Donal Og in goals, I was dissapointed, but what can you do. Maybe it was because there were some very inexperienced players in there, and Donal Og, whatever about his form, has a hell lot of experience.
He was doing some crazy things today though, running 40 yards up the pitch with the ball was kinda strange, it really was a strange game. They really wanted to just get this game out of the way, a so they could get down to business and that did come across at times, can't blame them really.

There's a bit of club games to be played in the mean time, and hopefully players can get firing on all cylinders. I saw Sully Og playing today when he came on, and I have to say he showed some of his old self, his old form. Never has been right since he suffered that injury a season or so back. Never has done it in a Cork jersey. But today showed some very positive signs about his form coming back, and he has nothing put time to improve on. Pa Horgan the same as well, hasn't looked that sharp really, but a few haven't. Pa Cronin had his best game in ages, including with his club, he hasn't been great but showed some great form today. Him and O Neill had another stormer so can't wait to get them back with the club. There's plenty of time yet.
And hopefully if Donal Og shows that he's not up for it, then maybe Walsh has enough time, especially with a few friendlies, to give Coleman a go in goals.

Surely Reillers you are still not trying to deny you are from Bishopstown.

[dowling]

What are on about reillers? If you could just stop ranting for a minute. Unless information comes from elsewhe I'll go along with what you say about Murphy. Joe Deane, great hurler. What else do you want said? I know you think someone else deserves a go in nets, is this not the time? Is there no possibility Walsh is a wary man?

On the Cork situ in general.

Whether the speculation about Brian Murphy is right or wrong or even insensitive it's another consequence of the strike, there will be extreme suspicion and distrust. Everything that happens or could happen will be examined and conclusions made, right ones and wrong ones. In spite of Zulu's assertion that all is well all is definitely not well.

You have to learn to live with the consequences of what you supported.

Don't, "what are you on about" me. It's a pathetic way at trying to avoid a question.

Why do you constantly look for some underlining problem that isn't there?
Why do you always look for something to whinge about.
Wouldn't you rather discuss something you like?
Why is it not possible for your like to even make half a positive remark about Cork hurling, I mean you just did it right there, a moment ago, you said oh look at all the changes, and instead of commentating and all those changes you whinge..again, about Donal Og.
So when Deane and Murphy retire, you don't comment about how great they are, how much they'll be missed. No instead you bitch and try and use it in your petty fight that is over at this stage.
I mean it really shows me what kind of GAA men ye are when not a word is said about them. You whinge about the players not having respect, but what about you? Do you not think that the great Joe Deane or Brian Murphy deserves respect?

I mean the people of Cork have gotten over it (to an extent) why can't you..I'll tell you why, because you can't bare having nothing to whinge about when it comes to Cork hurling.

Everyone in Cork knows why Brian Murphy can't play for Cork anymore, but no, you use the players poor fortune of not being able to play and try to turn it into something that's not.
I mean this bullshit about "I'll go along with what you say about Murphy" it's not a guess. It's fact. If you knew the first thing about migranes or Brian Murphy for that matter you wouldn't be questioning it.
I mean when he's had to come off in games because of migranes in the past was there conspiracy there? FFS like, if you knew a thing about this player you wouldn't be questioning it.

There's speculation outside Cork, maybe, I haven't heard much of it, but I haven't been in the country, but the player obviously can't play anymore because of his constant painful migranes, but no, you try to turn it into something that's not.
You are convinced that there's some underlining problem in the camp, there's not. These players will fight with their back up against the wall, they will fight till the death for eachother. Inside the camp they are united. Outside, maybe not. Like you said speculation and questions and personal attacks on the players, a massive united force wanting them all to fail and do so miserably.
But inside the camp and within the majority of the Cork GAA community they have the the bones of a full backing. The players made their stand, went as far as they good humanly possibly go, the clubs stopped at the final mark. But infairness anything they have tried has been ruled out of order or is breaking a rule or something.

And yes, Joe Deane, great hurler, is what I wanted to hear, and the fact getting it from you and your kind is like drawing blood from a rock says a lot about what kind of GAA man you are.

Heard anything further yet Reillers? Or is there an attempted cover-up going on?
Something doesn't appear right and at odds with that post.   What about those sources?

[heffo]

What are on about reillers? If you could just stop ranting for a minute. Unless information comes from elsewhe I'll go along with what you say about Murphy. Joe Deane, great hurler. What else do you want said? I know you think someone else deserves a go in nets, is this not the time? Is there no possibility Walsh is a wary man?

On the Cork situ in general.

Whether the speculation about Brian Murphy is right or wrong or even insensitive it's another consequence of the strike, there will be extreme suspicion and distrust. Everything that happens or could happen will be examined and conclusions made, right ones and wrong ones. In spite of Zulu's assertion that all is well all is definitely not well.

You have to learn to live with the consequences of what you supported.

Don't, "what are you on about" me. It's a pathetic way at trying to avoid a question.

Why do you constantly look for some underlining problem that isn't there?
Why do you always look for something to whinge about.
Wouldn't you rather discuss something you like?
Why is it not possible for your like to even make half a positive remark about Cork hurling, I mean you just did it right there, a moment ago, you said oh look at all the changes, and instead of commentating and all those changes you whinge..again, about Donal Og.
So when Deane and Murphy retire, you don't comment about how great they are, how much they'll be missed. No instead you bitch and try and use it in your petty fight that is over at this stage.
I mean it really shows me what kind of GAA men ye are when not a word is said about them. You whinge about the players not having respect, but what about you? Do you not think that the great Joe Deane or Brian Murphy deserves respect?

I mean the people of Cork have gotten over it (to an extent) why can't you..I'll tell you why, because you can't bare having nothing to whinge about when it comes to Cork hurling.

Everyone in Cork knows why Brian Murphy can't play for Cork anymore, but no, you use the players poor fortune of not being able to play and try to turn it into something that's not.
I mean this bullshit about "I'll go along with what you say about Murphy" it's not a guess. It's fact. If you knew the first thing about migranes or Brian Murphy for that matter you wouldn't be questioning it.
I mean when he's had to come off in games because of migranes in the past was there conspiracy there? FFS like, if you knew a thing about this player you wouldn't be questioning it.

There's speculation outside Cork, maybe, I haven't heard much of it, but I haven't been in the country, but the player obviously can't play anymore because of his constant painful migranes, but no, you try to turn it into something that's not.
You are convinced that there's some underlining problem in the camp, there's not. These players will fight with their back up against the wall, they will fight till the death for eachother. Inside the camp they are united. Outside, maybe not. Like you said speculation and questions and personal attacks on the players, a massive united force wanting them all to fail and do so miserably.
But inside the camp and within the majority of the Cork GAA community they have the the bones of a full backing. The players made their stand, went as far as they good humanly possibly go, the clubs stopped at the final mark. But infairness anything they have tried has been ruled out of order or is breaking a rule or something.

And yes, Joe Deane, great hurler, is what I wanted to hear, and the fact getting it from you and your kind is like drawing blood from a rock says a lot about what kind of GAA man you are.

Heard anything further yet Reillers? Or is there an attempted cover-up going on?
Something doesn't appear right and at odds with that post.   What about those sources?

Reillers source is whatever 'Langer' on PROC posts - Reillers then posts this as gospel.

[dowling]

Well what about Zulu then? He said his contacts are on a par with Tomas Mulcahy.

[orangeman]

SOME GREAT hurlers prefer to slip away from the main stage without any fanfare, and Joe Deane, it seems, is one of them. Cork's three-time All-Ireland winner has informed current manager Denis Walsh he won't be returning to the panel after all, and with that the 31-year-old brings down the curtain on his magnificent career.

It's not easy to summarise Deane's contribution to Cork hurling over the past 13 years but when one of the all-time greats, Jimmy Barry Murphy, describes him as a "hurling genius" then clearly he's the sort of player that doesn't come around very often.

"I really can't speak highly enough of Joe Deane," says Barry Murphy, Cork's former dual All-Ireland winning player and hurling manager. "I just feel I was lucky enough to have coached him, put it that way. He was a hurling genius, and a great individual, extremely gracious, on and off the field."

It was Barry Murphy, as manager of the county minor team, who gave Deane his first start in the Cork jersey in 1995 – although he reckons now that may have been a year too late.

"I was manager in 1994 as well, when Joe first came on the scene. He wasn't the biggest player around, and even though he made up for that with his skill level, we didn't play him that year, and I think we paid a price. Galway beat us in the final that year. But he came in the following year, and he won the All-Ireland. And I knew even then he was destined to be a superstar."

So excited was he of Deane's prospects that Barry Murphy straightaway called him into the senior team when he took over in 1996 – but in hindsight that may have been a little too soon."We started him that summer in the championship, against Limerick, the same day Seán Óg Ó hAilpín made his debut. And we were annihilated. That was certainly a baptism of fire, and in hindsight perhaps too soon for him. I feared that might affect his career, leave him a little scarred, but instead he went on to be that superstar."

During that time Deane also won back-to-back All-Ireland under-21 titles, in 1997 and 1998, established himself as one of the most promising forwards in the game. Yet he played every senior championship game bar one for Cork from 1996-98, and only ended winning one of them – his main success being the National League title in 1998.

In 1999 all that changed when Barry Murphy first took Cork to the Munster final, and then the subsequent All-Ireland final: "For me one of the highlights of Joe's career was that 1999 Munster final, against Clare. He took a great pass from Seánie McGrath and finished it into the net. The All-Ireland final that year against Kilkenny was played in dreadful conditions, and Joe came up with some crucial scores."

That success was repeated in 2004 and 2005, only for Kilkenny to end their quest for three-in-a-row, in 2006. Later that year it was revealed Deane had undergone an operation for testicular cancer, but he made a full recovery to in fact captain Cork in 2007, replacing the dropped Kieran Murphy.

Last year, Deane wasn't selected to start a championship match, for only the second time in his career, and although he did play in the All-Ireland semi-final against Kilkenny, there was some signs he wasn't the player of earlier years.

"Joe is no fool," adds Barry Murphy, "and knew he was coming to the end of his career. He could have hung around for a bit more but I think he's done the gracious thing as well, even though he'll be massively missed."

Deane's scoring tally of 3-234 from 48 games ranks him number eight on the all-time championship scoring list, behind Kilkenny's Eddie Keher, who remains number one with his 36-307, from 50 games.

Walsh also confirmed defender Brian Murphy has decided against making himself available for the year ahead.

The 27-year-old former young hurler of the year hasn't been part of the panel this year. 

[dowling]

None of you boys able to throw any light on this then?

[Reillers]

Why are you so obsessed with it? If there was anything "fishy" about it, anything controversial about it, anything that bad, Brian Murphy would have said something.

Obviously it's hard for you to move on and accept that it's over, that you've nothing left to whine about and you are now trying to cling to straws, looking for some sort of controversy or story.
Just let it go. FFS. Move on. It's growing tiresome.

[dowling]

Reillers you were the one who was so emphatic about Brian Murphy's reason for not playing. Someone has indicated it mightn't be as you say. Do you know any different now? Why so hard to answer?
As for Brian not commenting on it, maybe he has a bit more integrity than others FFS!

[Reillers]

Nothing that I know can be sworn to be 100% concrete. There are rumours, usually started by people desperate to stirr which seems to be what you're doing. I have heard one or two things. But like I said, I can't say that I'd swear on it.
Why are you so obsessed. Does it really matter. All you're trying to do is drag Murphy's name, one of the best defenders in the country, through the mud in an attempt to throw dirt at the players.
So if he has integrity, then why can't you. Why does it matter so much to you. Why can't you just accept it and move on. It's grown tiresome at this stage.
You're just trying to stirr at this stage. It's over, it happened, get over it.

[dowling]

You cant swear 100%? Sure you were on here declaring "fact"! If there is some "problem" regarding Brian Murphy and his retirement are you now going to attempt to ignore it and throw dirt at me for asking what's going on.
How can you come on and state something as "fact" and now backtrack?

[Dinny Breen]

sorry to see Joe Deane retire always one of my favourite hurlers

He won pretty much everything in the game.

3 All Irelands,
5 Munsters,
2 U21s,
1 minor,
3 Fitzgibbons,
3 All Stars,
1 Harty,
1 Junior co,
1 Intermediate co,
And would be considered unlucky not to win a senior with UCC few years back.