McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Bud Wiser]

For as long as I am on this board, ten years I'd say, a thread ends when people are finished posting on the topic, not when someone says so.  Sure, I understand that the renegades down in Cork would like to see the issue forgotton about.  It's ok to bring the entire association int disrepute, create benchmarks for other likeminded teams to follow, like trousering sponsorship, choosing their manager among them.  Thankfully, no other county has followed and we have reached the unlikely situation where now Dublin hurlers have more respect throughout the other thirty counties than Cork.   If per chance they could win the Leinster Final, or at least put up a good show against the Cats, send a few players up to Down and teach them a few tricks they might get a letter of support and become liked by all the 31 counties.

To suggest that this is over, as in "finished, forgotton about, no more, move on," or whatever spin you want to put on it is as stupid as the ones in the new tracksuits.  It is not over by a long shot.  Reillers typified that attitude " I am off for a few days now " as much as to say that he has done his joband deserves a break.  Fact is, nobody cares if he went away forever and took the Cork hurling team with him.  His parting shots included a rant that he met Kilkenny supporters at the game and they had not a bad word to say against Cork. Like Tony Fearon who is not afraid to put his real name on the board I have nothing to hide by saying my name is Fennelly and I know plenty of "suporters" down in Kilkenny and how Reillers found some that were happy with the Cork team is as bewildering as some of the posts he has made on this topic.

Here is a letter from yesterdays Sunday Independent:



Sunday April 12 2009

Sir — I really hope your columnist Tommy Conlon enjoyed the National Hurling League match last Sunday between Kilkenny and Cork.
However, given his worship for the golden calves that comprise the current Cork hurling panel, I daresay he watched the coverage of the match from behind his sofa, if he bothered to do so at all!

I hope he heard the reaction from GAA grounds across the country when the half-time and full-time scores from Nowlan Park were read out. By all accounts it raised the loudest cheer of the day.

It shows the low esteem this shower of Cork players are held in by real hurling fans the whole country over, that a Kilkenny victory, of all things, would be cheered. These Cork players have disgraced themselves among the hurling fraternity by dragging the name and reputation of a decent and honorable man through the mud.

In the context of what happened last Sunday, Ger Mac's achievements in bringing that group of players to an All- Ireland semi-final and within nine points of Kilkenny would refute the players' assertions of his supposed incompetence.

They painted him as a halfsenile, outdated old git compared to the modern professional set-up they aspired to. How ironic then, that Gerald's '09 team never took a beating like that suffered by the "special ones" last Sunday.

Ah, justice is sweet! Of course, I expect Tommy to churn out the argument made by the housewives' favourite, Sean Og, that the Cork players are bravely sacrificing their popularity so that future generations will benefit from their selflessness and that they will be regarded as heroes in the fullness of time, a la Padraig Pearse and 1916 I'd imagine.

Given the Easter week that's in it, I half expect a public statement from the Cork players (full page in the Examiner is their usual modus operandi) along the lines of "Father forgive them (the real hurling fans), for they know not what they do". In future, I suggest Tommy take a leaf out of his colleague Eamonn Sweeney's book.

He has had this current shower pegged for a long time. Maybe Tommy should dig up some of Eamonn's old articles, I'm sure he'd oblige!

On a final note, I hope that Gerald and the young lads who bravely donned the Cork jersey for him this year enjoy their week in the sun in La Manga, I think they deserve it.

Pat Murphy, Kilkenny

This issue is not over.  It will be when Nicky Brennan or the incoming President (from Cork, if he comes) makes a decision on sponsorship rules, and whether the word "MANAGER" is in or out of the rule book.  As Robert Emmet would NOT have said,  Then, and not until then, let everything be written.

[dowling]

Zulu You're a bit naive if you believe the Cork mess is sorted and everyone has moved on. There is immense fallout from what has taken place and that is why journalists, commentators and posters are still writing about Cork hurling. The cheers and satisfaction of 'ordinary' GAA members up and down the country at Cork's hammering in Kilkenny is an indication of the feelings towards the strikers and to where those strikers have taken the GAA. Of course people like Reillers can say the ordinary GAA member knows nothing about Cork hurling and be dismissive but it's a sorry state Cork hurling is in.
If anything the situation in Cork was supposed to be put to bed last year with the Mulvey agreement so you should have been on here at the start of this issue stating people should move on.
The pro-strike posters on here refused to accept there would be deep consequences or else didn't care about them in the same way that it seemed ok to villify Gerald McCarthy. Here's the real world now for Cork hurling as summed up in those articles. And that's neither good for Cork or the GAA. Maybe you should be on here asking how did it get to this and how  this whole affair can be sorted out so that it doesn't happen again.
And it will happen again if the players who initiated this strike think there's support for another one in the future.
As for the here and now the Cork story is still running and not because of a few posts here but because the actions of the strikers were always going to take Cork hurling to where it is now.

[Bud Wiser]

Aye, and it will run for years to come.

In the context of what happened last Sunday, Ger Mac's achievements in bringing that group of players to an All- Ireland semi-final and within nine points of Kilkenny would refute the players' assertions of his supposed incompetence.

It would appear from yer mans letter that Cody had respect for Gerald and there was motive in the thrashing he inflicted. 

[longrunsthefox]

I saw Sean Og as a heroic figure in hurling and now he is completly tainted although it wasn't hard to see that Donal Og is a complete aggitator for the sake of it. Hopefully they will get more of the same in the championship.   

[Zulu]

For as long as I am on this board, ten years I'd say, a thread ends when people are finished posting on the topic, not when someone says so.  Sure, I understand that the renegades down in Cork would like to see the issue forgotton about.  It's ok to bring the entire association int disrepute, create benchmarks for other likeminded teams to follow, like trousering sponsorship, choosing their manager among them.  Thankfully, no other county has followed and we have reached the unlikely situation where now Dublin hurlers have more respect throughout the other thirty counties than Cork.   If per chance they could win the Leinster Final, or at least put up a good show against the Cats, send a few players up to Down and teach them a few tricks they might get a letter of support and become liked by all the 31 counties.

Will you get off the stage Bud your not James Connolly and this isn't life or death, by all means continue posting the same point you've posted 100 times already but I'd say this has gone from one of teh most read threads to one of the least read, why? Because nobody is saying anything new, all you posts can be summed up in 3 words - Cork players bad. Ok we get it.

Zulu You're a bit naive if you believe the Cork mess is sorted and everyone has moved on. There is immense fallout from what has taken place and that is why journalists, commentators and posters are still writing about Cork hurling.

Nonsense, I was down in Cork a few days ago and when I brought it up most people just shrugged their shoulders, whatever the opinion was during the debate they now just want to get on with. To a one issue poster like yourself I'm sure this seems to be the only thing going on in Cork GAA but most GAA folk I know are more interested in their club championships which have already begun.

If anything the situation in Cork was supposed to be put to bed last year with the Mulvey agreement so you should have been on here at the start of this issue stating people should move on.
The pro-strike posters on here refused to accept there would be deep consequences or else didn't care about them in the same way that it seemed ok to villify Gerald McCarthy. Here's the real world now for Cork hurling as summed up in those articles. And that's neither good for Cork or the GAA. Maybe you should be on here asking how did it get to this and how  this whole affair can be sorted out so that it doesn't happen again.
And it will happen again if the players who initiated this strike think there's support for another one in the future.
As for the here and now the Cork story is still running and not because of a few posts here but because the actions of the strikers were always going to take Cork hurling to where it is now

I'm not going to respond to this in detail since I'd only be reopeating myself, suffice to say I am and always was of teh opinion that the CCB are largely to blame for this mess. And this isn't reallt still running, it's off the front pages of newspapers and it's only being kept going here by yourself and bud with the odd interjection from a few others that should know better.

[theskull1]

Grossly naive position Zulu. What happened last week showed that the majority of GAA men and women want the 08 bunch to understand the meaning of the word humility. A noble character trait you'll agree. How you expect people to shrug their shoulders and somehow leave the 08 brigade to it is beyond me. We did try and state that at the time that the 08 panel (for whatever reason) had misjudged (if indeed it mattered) the feelings of the wider GAA public regarding their militancy. You reap what you sow.

[Zulu]

Look Skull1 I appreciate you hold a certain position and you'll appreciate, I'm sure, that I disagree with you but we've done this, so has Bud, GAA, dowling, OM, Reillers and quite a few more. I couldn't care less how the crowds react at league games to Corks results, it can be good, bad or indifferent for all it matters. The point I'm making is that we have discussed this here and we have all made our opinions known and why we hold them. Is there any point in coming on here to say the exact same thing you've said a 100 times before? When the clubs voted in favour of the players I didn't come on here and gloat about that even though I said that would happen at the very start of this issue. I always said that whatever Cork GAA folk decide to do I'll support because it is their GAA county, they have decided to support the 08 players and leave FM in charge, I don't agree with all of that but that is what they have decided so I truly hope it proves to be the correct decision for Cork GAA.

You, like one or two others seem to be implying you called it right whereas I think you called it wrong and nobody on either side of the debate in Cork gives a rats ass what the 'ordinary GAA folk' in other counties think. In fact I was talking to one die hard opponent of the players over the weekend who said while he disagreed with the players all this anti-Cork vibe in other counties meant he hoped Cork would stuff them this summer.

Like I say we all have our opinion on this but Frank is still in place, the Cork squad is made up of primarily the 08 panel, Gerald is gone and Denis is in, Cork fans are getting behind the players and plenty of other supporters will hope they get beaten this year. that just about sums it up. What's the point in fellas coming on here and rehashing those basic points way all over again?

[anglocelt39]

Like I say we all have our opinion on this but Frank is still in place, the Cork squad is made up of primarily the 08 panel, Gerald is gone and Denis is in, Cork fans are getting behind the players and plenty of other supporters will hope they get beaten this year. that just about sums it up. What's the point in fellas coming on here and rehashing those basic points way all over again?


Because Zulu as one or two other posters have said this over the last day or two, this is not the end of the matter and if the 08 panel or their supporters really thought that things would simply revert to normal service after Gerald Mac went they are probably a small bit misguided. Your summation above is a fairly reasonable attempt to sum things up for the most part but there is at least one element that is a bit of a moveable feast and I suggest we watch this space with interest.

And for anybody who is sick of the site of this thread I think a long holiday may be in order because, human nature being what it is, people will discuss and revisit past events they see as significant. Throw up a new thread as to whether Offaly's Seamus Darby committed a foul before scoring THAT goal against Kerry a quarter century ago and you'll get posts from people who weren't born at the time.

[Bud Wiser]

nobody on either side of the debate in Cork gives a rats ass what the 'ordinary GAA folk' in other counties think.

And therein lies the problem, Cork people don't give a shit about anybody, they can upset the whole league table by choosing what team ('has beens'  or young lads who tried) will play and when they will play and  nothing will get in the way of their modelling assignments or production launches, direct sponsorship and matters relating to selection of team managers and other related matters.

Have the Cork team made a statement to the effect that they would:

(a) Like to apologise to all counties that were affected by their strike action?
(b) Apologise to the McCarthy Family for the distress that was caused?
(c) Agree that they have no right in selecting a team manager and that they will never interfere in this process again.
(d) That issues concerning sponsorship will be dealt with by the County Board.
(e) They have said they respect the club vote on the issue and they are very quick to point out the club vote,but, do they accept that openly criticising the most senior officer of their county board and their manager, BEFORE ANY CLUB VOTE WAS EVEN CONSIDERED  constituted actions that brought the GAA into disrepute and caused damage to hurling countrywide, of which I can provide you proof of.

There are two ways back for not just the Cork hurlers, but Cork GAA as a whole, there is the long road or the short one.  The short one is for the panel, and particulary the ones directly involved in the McCarthy episode to make a statement to the effect of the above in such a way that it gets the same prominence as was given to the libelous statements that were issued about Gerald McCarthy.  They would do well to remember that the Statute of Limitations Act 1957 is still in place and if public statements were issued about me that made it perfectly clear that the person issueing the statement was implying that I was senile and an embarressment to be with I would be invoking said Act.

The long road is for the Cork hurlers to follow your lead and forget about the matter and it will go away in time.  Well I will tell you this, it will take time, a long f**king time before I and not thousands, but hundreds of thousands like me foget and right now there are mentors and managers throughout the country who,  like Gerald McCarthy,  have given their all for the GAA and who are afraid that their team will turn on them tomorrow or the next day.  And you are right, I believe you and I agree wholeheartedly that nobody in Cork gives a shit.

But I have news for the Cork hurlers, the tables have turned, nobody gives a rats when they adapt their Roy Keanish-Stephen Irelandish stance of playing when they like, walking away when they like until such time as they issue a full apology for their actions.  If they are not men enough to do that they are not men enough to be on a GAA pitch in the first place.

[INDIANA]

Look Skull1 I appreciate you hold a certain position and you'll appreciate, I'm sure, that I disagree with you but we've done this, so has Bud, GAA, dowling, OM, Reillers and quite a few more. I couldn't care less how the crowds react at league games to Corks results, it can be good, bad or indifferent for all it matters. The point I'm making is that we have discussed this here and we have all made our opinions known and why we hold them. Is there any point in coming on here to say the exact same thing you've said a 100 times before? When the clubs voted in favour of the players I didn't come on here and gloat about that even though I said that would happen at the very start of this issue. I always said that whatever Cork GAA folk decide to do I'll support because it is their GAA county, they have decided to support the 08 players and leave FM in charge, I don't agree with all of that but that is what they have decided so I truly hope it proves to be the correct decision for Cork GAA.

You, like one or two others seem to be implying you called it right whereas I think you called it wrong and nobody on either side of the debate in Cork gives a rats ass what the 'ordinary GAA folk' in other counties think. In fact I was talking to one die hard opponent of the players over the weekend who said while he disagreed with the players all this anti-Cork vibe in other counties meant he hoped Cork would stuff them this summer.

Like I say we all have our opinion on this but Frank is still in place, the Cork squad is made up of primarily the 08 panel, Gerald is gone and Denis is in, Cork fans are getting behind the players and plenty of other supporters will hope they get beaten this year. that just about sums it up. What's the point in fellas coming on here and rehashing those basic points way all over again?

I think Zulu as redhand said above Cork have the county board they deserve. This groundswell of disapproval has melted like snow, Frank is still in situ, Cork have no chance of competing with kilkenny this year. What did it achieve? I'm still struggling to see what it was all for. The greater good of the county was the reason for it, yet it seemed to me to be more lets' get rid of gerald and get back playing as quickly as possible.
I give up with Cork Zulu-its a lost cause all round. I struggle to see how Cork at football are so good at underage level if the county board as has been claimed here are so negligent at underage level at both codes. You must have seen them at underage like me- they are as good as anything in Ireland presently. So I just don't buy that argument here unless Cork football is a seperate entity from the county board in Cork. As far as I'm concerned they can get on with it. But I won't be cheering for the current crop of Cork hurlers again. If the reason for the strike was to get rid of Frank they should have seen it out to the death in my view regardless of their own careers- you either make a stand or you don't. For me they completely hedged their bets.

[whiskeysteve]

We've done this to death and it's been a long time since anything interesting or new has been posted, it's time for posters to put this to bed and move on, tbh some lads are coming across a bit weird such is their obsession with the topic.

Agree in part with this, though I dont doubt that further strife may well rear its head down the line, in which case its still relevant.

The problem with this thread occurs when it gets hijacked by posters from opposing camps try to get one over on the other in some of the saddest squabbles ever seen on the GAA side of the board. There is usually a facade of debating the issues at hand but lets face it, for months now the real motivation for some has been to strike blows in a petty battle of wits.

On that count this thread has at times been cringe worthy.

[Zulu]

Because Zulu as one or two other posters have said this over the last day or two, this is not the end of the matter and if the 08 panel or their supporters really thought that things would simply revert to normal service after Gerald Mac went they are probably a small bit misguided. Your summation above is a fairly reasonable attempt to sum things up for the most part but there is at least one element that is a bit of a moveable feast and I suggest we watch this space with interest.

This is where we disagree, the matter for all intents and purposes is over or at least it should be on this board because we have all said what we think and now Cork will live or die by their decision. I hope and think that if Cork win this years AI or even a Munster title I'll have enough dignity and class not to come on here and give some of ye the old 'I told ye so' routine, unfortunately from reading the same lads post the same thing here over and over I'd doubt it would be recipricated.

And therein lies the problem, Cork people don't give a shit about anybody, they can upset the whole league table by choosing what team ('has beens'  or young lads who tried) will play and when they will play and  nothing will get in the way of their modelling assignements or production launches, direct sponsorship and matters relating to selection of team managers and other related matters.

Bud I know of no set of supporters that are concerned about how others see them and all counties will round the wagons when push comes to shove. That isn't a Cork trait solely regardless of how you want to portray it, the reat of that is just nonsense and your feelings about the GPA colour your every post.

The long road is for the Cork hurlers to follow your lead and forget about the matter and it will go away in time.  Well I will tell you this, it will take time, a long f**king time before I and not thousands, but hundreds of thousands like me foget and right now there are mentors and managers throughout the country who like Gerald McCarthy who have given their all for the GAA who are afraid that their team will turn on them tomorrow or the next day.  And you are right, I believe you and I agree wholeheartedly that nobody in Cork gives a shit.

Will you please get off the stage, hundreds of thousands my arse, most people in Cork have more to be worrying about than Cork hurling let alone the rest of the country. I manage a team and am dealing with others who do likewise on a daily basis and none of us are worried about our teams turning on us. As far as I'm concerned I try to do my best and if for whatever reason theplayers don't want me to continue then I'd readily step aside, it's no biggie at all. You're losing the run of yourself entirely here Bud at the end of the day Cork GAA folk and GAA folk in general are now getting on with things like they never happened, that is the reality.

I think Zulu as redhand said above Cork have the county board they deserve.

I agree, I argued my point of view and explained why I held it but at the end of the day Cork can and have choosen the way the want to go, so good luck to them.

This groundswell of disapproval has melted like snow, Frank is still in situ, Cork have no chance of competing with kilkenny this year. What did it achieve? I'm still struggling to see what it was all for. The greater good of the county was the reason for it, yet it seemed to me to be more lets' get rid of gerald and get back playing as quickly as possible.

I won't go over it all again but the players were always going to go back once Gerald was gone (correctly so IMO), it was up to the clubs to get rid of Frank, they didn't (incorrectly so IMO) butt there you go. Like you say they'll reap what they've sown, so we'll see where that gets them in time.

I struggle to see how Cork at football are so good at underage level if the county board as has been claimed here are so negligent at underage level at both codes. You must have seen them at underage like me- they are as good as anything in Ireland presently. So I just don't buy that argument here unless Cork football is a seperate entity from the county board in Cork.

I think this is down to a bit of luck really, Cork have a very big footballing base, if I'm not badly mistaken there are more footballers than hurlers in Cork so they will produce good footballers regularly it's just they've produced a number of outstanding ones together. There certainly wasn't any policy put in place to achieve this IMO it was very much a case of nature over nurture, I can assure you that the Cork CB are far from proactive in promoting football and the standard of club football is quite poor. A traditional powerhouse like Bantry Blues were relegated to intermediate last year and were beaten in the first round of the championship just last week. Skib the 'haven, Clon and a good few more west Cork superpowers are shadows of their former selves also.

Cork due to playing numbers and tradition will always produce decent teams and very good ones now and again in both codes but if they were proactive in developing the games they would be a serious force annually. I know you lived in Cork for a bit Indiana so like me you know Cork city is a GAA town but that is changing and rugby and soccer and doing a much better job of promoting themselves than the GAA. Even in west Cork rugby clubs are sprouting up and in places like Clonakilty they are getting very strong, I'm not a Cork man so I don't really care if Cork win AI's or not but I am a GAA man and I want to see the GAA get stronger in every county. Unfortunately Cork have a CB led by Frank more interested in settling old scores with their players than promoting the GAA. I mean they have more money than any other county board yet they don't have development officers or a strategy in lace to promote the GAA within the county.

I was going to apply for one of the GAA development managers jobs in Cork or Kerry and would have done so except I'm leaving the country for the next year, however when I said it to a Cork mate he told me forget about Cork as you'd be banging your head against a brick wall.

[dowling]

Zulu the cheers and satisfaction at the Kilkenny hammering may well galvanise support to a degree for the hurlers but I wouldn't overestimate it as most people will be able to distinguish that it was the strikers being brought down a peg which was welcomed. No one took any satisfaction at the inital 2009 panel being defeated except some of the 'pro' posters on here.
The Cork situ may be off the front pages but not out of the news. Didn't the Clare manager recently comment on it, was that not a recent article by a journalist pasted here, was Joe Brolly's article not recent and did Tomas Mulcahy not recently refer to the situ on the Hogan Stand and in particular the division in the county. Would your friends be better placed than Tomas to make a judgement?
But rather than dismissing the cheers and satisfaction tell me when something similar ever happened because I know of no time and in a sense it's the rest of the country saying to the strikers what it thinks of them, not as hurlers or competitors, but for their actions over the last few months. If you think it's ok for Cork to be 'isolated' from the rest of the country then that's a sorry stance because that's not what the GAA is supposed to be about.
But the issue in Cork is still ongoing because it's not known how much power and influence certain players want to have. Will there be another strike next year? Who's to say? What can be said is that there's no guarantee there wont be.

[Zulu]

Of course there'll be the odd article, there is still the odd article about the JFK assination, that doesn't mean we should still be going around in circles here. And yes a number of friends would be at least as well placed as Tomas so their information would be very sound.

And don't read too much into those cheers, I've been in plenty of grounds where this has happened and while I'm not denying that there would be a certain level of anti-Cork feeling over the strike, I'm sure some of it was simply satisfaction over these lads getting beaten. Their GPA involvement, the use of the Cummins balls etc. hasn't endeared them to many anyway. As for the future who knows what will happen but what i'd like to know is how long you intend posting the same basic post over and over again? What's done is done and we will have to wait and see what the future holds as a result, I don't hold the fears that some of you do and I'm confident I'm right but we will have to wait and see on that.

There's a big GAA world out there dowling and championship is just around the corner, why not come and join us, you surely have a view on other issues in the GAA, tell us your county and we can talk about your championship prospects, at least that will bring forth new posts and opinions.

[longrunsthefox]

Zulu- If you don't like this debate going on then don't log into it-you are perpetuating it as much as anyone. The players were well out of order and because you are like the man comes out of the cellar after the cyclone and says, 'Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowing' while others can see the terrible damage it caused and maybe aren't raedy to just forget about it.