McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[dowling]

And do you really think that out a group of 30 grown men who had spent so much time with Gerald that 25 not turning up to the wake and none at all turning up to the funeral is the norm in Irish society?


Oh and answer that one too and we'll get a better idea of how your mind works.

[Zulu]

This might come as a surprise to you Zulu but I would be in agreement with OM on most of this.

It doesn't surprise me in the least.

How can you accuse us of going over old ground and not apply the same to Shannon?

I'm not engaging with Shannon, I am with you.

And do you really think that out a group of 30 grown men who had spent so much time with Gerald that 25 not turning up to the wake and none at all turning up to the funeral is the norm in Irish society?

That is your last question, and what the hell do you mean logically? Oh and don't kid yourszelf you're no psychoanalyst, 'how my mind works'

But to answer your question one more time, 5 of the players turned up, as for the other players, I'd only be speculating on their motives, but the article clearly and, yes logically, reasons that the players felt their presense could be interpreted as something other than offering condolences.  But I'll ask you once more what is the point of all this, I could rake up the actions of the CB and Gerald again but we've done it all already and nobody is changing anyone's mind, so what is the point?

[dowling]

And by the way Zulu it was neither OM or myself who reverted to this aspect of the dispute, it was another poster who like others hadn't been too aware of it.
We only responed to others. We had moved on to the panel's new issue, ie OGrady not getting the job.
But are you saying when someone brings up an aspect and someone else sets up a link to a relevent article we shouldn't respond?

[Onlooker]

Credit to the 5 players who attended the removal and there may have been 1 or 2 others who were unable to be there for genuine reasons, but it was very mean spirited for most of the panel to stay away.  They have nothing to proud of in their actions in this instance.

[dowling]

This might come as a surprise to you Zulu but I would be in agreement with OM on most of this.

It doesn't surprise me in the least.

How can you accuse us of going over old ground and not apply the same to Shannon?

I'm not engaging with Shannon, I am with you.

And do you really think that out a group of 30 grown men who had spent so much time with Gerald that 25 not turning up to the wake and none at all turning up to the funeral is the norm in Irish society?

That is your last question, and what the hell do you mean logically? Oh and don't kid yourszelf you're no psychoanalyst, 'how my mind works'

But to answer your question one more time, 5 of the players turned up, as for the other players, I'd only be speculating on their motives, but the article clearly and, yes logically, reasons that the players felt their presense could be interpreted as something other than offering condolences.  But I'll ask you once more what is the point of all this, I could rake up the actions of the CB and Gerald again but we've done it all already and nobody is changing anyone's mind, so what is the point?

Yea assumed you would have to make a remark on the OM bit.

No you're not engaging with Shannon. Fair point. But you haven't engaged with Gerald either but had a lot to say about him. If you want to come accross all reasonable surely you could have at least said Shannon didn't need to go into this territory. Or maybe you felt he did.


You didn't answer the last part there. You seemed to find a different question somewhere.

And do you really think that out a group of 30 grown men who had spent so much time with Gerald that 25 not turning up to the wake and none at all turning up to the funeral is the norm in Irish society?
Is it the norm?


And the one you mised altogether?

"So what do you think were his reasons for writing it and at this time?" Shannon that is?

[Reillers]

And by the way Zulu it was neither OM or myself who reverted to this aspect of the dispute, it was another poster who like others hadn't been too aware of it.
We only responed to others. We had moved on to the panel's new issue, ie OGrady not getting the job.
But are you saying when someone brings up an aspect and someone else sets up a link to a relevent article we shouldn't respond?

You respond to that but not to something as simple as who you think Considine should play seeing as you were willing so willing to jump on anything brought up be it the GPA, the funeral and O Grady not getting the job. But you wont talk about anything positive at all.

[dowling]

Just wondering, out of curiousity, seeing as ye all claim to be genuine fans and not just on here to whinge, if ye were Considine what would your best starting 15 be?
Genuinely, biterness aside, who is his best 15? We've discussed everything and anyone on this topic, it's about time we started talking about the game imo.

I want to see change myself in the back, goals, mid and up front I'd say. Just a few changes because the core of the Cork team imo is still pretty young and sound.

Bit sceptical when I initally saw this and then thought perhaps it is trying to take the heat out of the debate and while I hadn't time to post earlier I thought well maybe later. Best 15 Cork players? Deserves a thread on its own but in keeping with the tone I believed the post to be in I thought I'd consider the proposition and come back to it later.


And what do I find? 2008 panel gaa speak.

Gardiner was cleaned out by canning I was at the game. Mind you Canning would clean out most people but Gardiner hasn't the positional nous for full back. He's still very at half back. Corks problems are all up front. They've great corner backs- good half back line, great midfield but a lack of proven firepower since Deane and Corcoran have stepped back. Only O Connor is consistent- Naughton has shown flashes of class but the likes of Pat Cronin and Pat Horgan have to step up to the plate if Cork are to beat the likes of Tipp.
They aren't  good enough to beat the Cats- but nobody is.

Gaa did very well for someone thrown into the position. He wasn't cleaned out at all. Canning is just..well Canning.

We don't and haven't had an out and out goalscoring forward since Santy left and Corcoran as well.
Naughton has so much potential and I was looking forward to seeing if Donal O Grady could get the best out of the young players like Hoggie, Sully Og, Cronin, but that's irrelevant now.
Hopefully Considine will be able to do the same.

The topic had moved on to managers.

What had OGrady got to do with Considine's best fifteen?

[dowling]

And you've a bit of a brassneck Reillers seeing as you put the Shannon article link up.

[Zulu]

No you're not engaging with Shannon. Fair point. But you haven't engaged with Gerald either but had a lot to say about him. If you want to come accross all reasonable surely you could have at least said Shannon didn't need to go into this territory. Or maybe you felt he did.

I didn't have much to say on Gerald as it happened but what I did say was related to this whole issue and his central role in it, Shannon has no such role.

You didn't answer the last part there. You seemed to find a different question somewhere.

And do you really think that out a group of 30 grown men who had spent so much time with Gerald that 25 not turning up to the wake and none at all turning up to the funeral is the norm in Irish society?
Is it the norm?

What I answered the question, I don't know if it is the norm for 30 players who are arguing with their manager to attend his mother's funeral I'd doubt it happens too often.

And the one you mised altogether?

"So what do you think were his reasons for writing it and at this time?" Shannon that is?

Again i don't know maybe he disagreed with the way Gerald was portraying the players actions and wanted to set the record straight. For the record I think the players should have gone to the funeral but I'm not going to climb on a high horse over something I don't have all the facts on. I can see how the players might have felt that their presense may have upset his family members or maybe some mourners, it is very easy for internet posters to draw down judgement on the players from the comfort of their homes, especially when they want to at any opportunity.

[dowling]

No one is getting on a high horse over this Zulu but you're right none of us can claim to be objective in all this either.

While I disagree with the panel's strike and the resulting fallout I've been trying to apply logic in all this and avoid little personal squabbles.
We can all put up clever answers to get us out of addressing the real issues and I can't argue with your answer "I don't know if it is the norm for 30 players who are arguing with their manager to attend his mother's funeral I'd doubt it happens too often."
Technically it's a good answer although I didn't mentioned grown men and didn't mention manager or arguing but technically it's still a good answer. It's a very clever answer in fact.

I find it strange however that 30 men who over the course of 2 years had spent an awful lot of time in the company of another man didn't see fit to attend the funeral of his mother. And maybe I could take it from your clever answer that you wouldn't think I was wrong.


And no none of us know for definite why Shannon wrote that particular article or why now. If you feel unable to come to a spectulative conclusion on it fair enough.
But if you can't speculate as to the reasons why then you don't really have any grounds to criticise those of us who do. You can't really counter our arguments if you don't have one of your own.

[Galwaybhoy]

The players explained their position, they felt if they all went that it might be interpreted "as inflammatory, insincere and insensitive, transforming the event into a point-scoring circus", you may not accept this but I do. Neither of us know if that was the reason or not but you want to see something bad in everything the panel do, I don't. What is your point in posting about this, is it just venting? All your doing is raking over old news, this happened a good while ago now and I'm sure we argued the issue at the time, what is your reason for trying to do so again?

I have stepped back from this thread for a little while, but thats the most ridiculous excuse I have heard in ages.

[dowling]

Zulu my last post wasn't meant to come across as it did and I'm not trying to attack you on a personal level.
I just don't see how you can say the 2008 panel shold have gone to the funeral or wake but defend them with their justifications as carried in a newspaper article.

[Reillers]

And you've a bit of a brassneck Reillers seeing as you put the Shannon article link up.

To clear the ridiculous accusations of boycotting that no one had any proof of whatsoever but ye continued to attack them, I thought it'd calm ye down and stop ye bitching but surprise surprise ye found something else to attack the players on. Should have none better, it's all ye do. You can't even except the fact that Shannon might be right, instead you question his credibility as a writer and his integrity. You can't for a second except or admit that ye may be right. No always some sort of alternative motive with you. Always an excuse.

So answer me this Dowling is there anyway possible that he could be telling it straight up? Yes or no, a simple answer.

Like I said ye refuse to talk about any positive aspect of this, it's negative, negative, negative from ye all the time and ye never talk about the game, you and Skull got all high and mighty about not posting a best 15 that leads me to the impression that ye don't know much about the team on a playing level, of course I could be wrong and I apologise if I am, but that's the way it came across.

[SLIGONIAN]

Fair play to ya Reillers sticking with it, Ive been reading this thread alot, some great posts and in fairness i think you put your points across really well and I enjoy reading them even if it pisses others off because theyre not the Players biggest fans, I wouldnt be myself but im not in the trenches and dont have a clue whats really going on. Your closer to it and I think outsiders especially should respect your view. Theres wrong and right on both sides, hopefully sorted now. I feel sorry for McCarthy, dont think the choice of manager is that important in Cork especially with the players working on there own fitness and crossing the white, and when involved the atitude would be total. I think the players lost the plot a bit though it has to be said, i mean the paranoia about going to the funeral and mass cards, they all should of went and should of sent mass cards simple as that no matter what message it sends out. All this adds to spice of the summer hurling, now that everyone outside will be shouting against the cork 08 panel soon to 09 panel.

[Zulu]

The players explained their position, they felt if they all went that it might be interpreted "as inflammatory, insincere and insensitive, transforming the event into a point-scoring circus", you may not accept this but I do. Neither of us know if that was the reason or not but you want to see something bad in everything the panel do, I don't. What is your point in posting about this, is it just venting? All your doing is raking over old news, this happened a good while ago now and I'm sure we argued the issue at the time, what is your reason for trying to do so again?

I have stepped back from this thread for a little while, but thats the most ridiculous excuse I have heard in ages.

That post is a perfect example of why this thread is now completely ridiculous, I and others think it is a reasonable position to hold and Galwaybhoy, dowling and others think it is not so surely the only sensible thing is to agree to disagree.

I find it strange however that 30 men who over the course of 2 years had spent an awful lot of time in the company of another man didn't see fit to attend the funeral of his mother. And maybe I could take it from your clever answer that you wouldn't think I was wrong.

I don't think the players were right or wrong nor do I think their decision reflects badly on them as people, however I think they should have gone to the funeral. Most of them didn't and some of ye want to hang them out to dry over, for me it was one of many unfortunate incidents in the whole saga, nothing more.

And no none of us know for definite why Shannon wrote that particular article or why now. If you feel unable to come to a spectulative conclusion on it fair enough.
But if you can't speculate as to the reasons why then you don't really have any grounds to criticise those of us who do. You can't really counter our arguments if you don't have one of your own

Of course I can, and your post is further evidence of just how pointless this has become, you agree you're only speculating as to Shannon's motives yet you want me to speculate also and then we can debate the merits of each others speculations. It makes as much sense as two 7 year olds arguing about the 'facts of life', i.e. neither of us know if our argument has any real basis in fact.

The only reason for debate is to convince the other part of the merits of your point of view, we have all made various points and few if any have changed their position in any meaningful way, so I'll ask again why are some posters rehashing old arguments? I've made my position clear repeatedly and tbh I've little interest in this anymore, the national leagues are in full swing and there is plenty to discuss there.  It appears to me as if some posters don't have much interest in other aspects of the GAA because this has been done to death.