McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Tatler Jack]

Look I suppose our biggest mistake as part of the GAA in Cork, over the years, was to allow one man to get so powerfull. Like I could explain to you till morning just how much power and influence he has and I still don't think I would be able to get the picture across.

You could try by giving a few examples.  I actually think much of this stuff about his power is exaggerated and a cop out. But I could be wrong.

Everyone was just too busy taking care of their own club, looking out for themselves. Not looking at the bigger picture and that has cost us dearly in ways I can't even begin to explain.

So whose fault is this - FM's?

Like it was said at the club-player meeting by a club chairman, that, we have no one but ourselves to blame. Or something like that.

Exactly what I said in my very early posts Reillers and I was told I did not know!! I said if clubs faiiled to put down motions at County Convention they had only themselves to blame. You and others told me I did not understand. Maybe now you realise I knew what I was talking about. If it took action by the players to show clubs that they could effect change then it reflects badly on clubs.

[Reillers]

Your missing my point Reillers. The real manager is going to be appointed by an outside committee. Having a purely interim manager like Considine will make their job easier. Were O'Grady the interim manager it would likely lead to ultimatems etc that he be left there which might only further the dispute. As I say O'Grady may still be the manager. Regardless of what the motives of the board are, and we can't be sure about the delegates thinking on this, the decision they came to is one that will please the external committee greatly and it gives them freedom to select who they feel is the  right person for the job, not feel under pressure to leave a man in charge because of the pressure the players might apply.

I know, but it's gotten to the point where I look at the proposals there and everyone of them I can see a way how the CB could manipulate it.

And I think you're missing my point, I accept all of that, it's just what annoys me is that the CB, for whatever reasons appointed a man who is, all due respect to him, a less talented manager then O Grady, for alteriar motives. The best man wasn't given the job, at the end of the day, whatever way it's looked at Considine was voted for not because of his management skills but because he wasn't O Grady. That's what annoys me so much, that the CB are at it again and doing so without a care in the world.

[Reillers]

Look I suppose our biggest mistake as part of the GAA in Cork, over the years, was to allow one man to get so powerfull. Like I could explain to you till morning just how much power and influence he has and I still don't think I would be able to get the picture across.

You could try by giving a few examples.  I actually think much of this stuff about his power is exaggerated and a cop out. But I could be wrong.

Everyone was just too busy taking care of their own club, looking out for themselves. Not looking at the bigger picture and that has cost us dearly in ways I can't even begin to explain.

So whose fault is this - FM's?

Like it was said at the club-player meeting by a club chairman, that, we have no one but ourselves to blame. Or something like that.

Exactly what I said in my very early posts Reillers and I was told I did not know!! I said if clubs faiiled to put down motions at County Convention they had only themselves to blame. You and others told me I did not understand. Maybe now you realise I knew what I was talking about. If it took action by the players to show clubs that they could effect change then it reflects badly on clubs.

For the first point, like the Croke Park incident is a perfect example, Rule 43. I think it summed up FM and his power in his role.
As for the second point, no it's not FM's fault, well in a way it is, it's a by product of his ruling, if someone stands up to him, disagrees with him they, their club, is blackened. If the players had went to the clubs way back a few months ago it wouldn't have worked simply because FM could have caught out the "troublemakers" nice and early and nipped it in the bud.
These "Troublemakers" their clubs suffer for it in many ways.
It's in a way the clubs fault that FM has so much power. For the record I don't think it'd matter one bit what motions the clubs could have brought up, any that the CB didn't like, like the Cloyne motion which made so much sense, could be ruled out of order. It's the way it is and I can't see it changing unless the clubs push on with it. The IC players have done all they can on this. They can't make club decisions for them, they can't hold our hand. It's up to the clubs now. But ironically I don't know if the motivation is there anymore because Gerald's gone.

[stephenite]

Have been off line for a little while - death threats? Jesus H. Fckuing Christ.

Sorry to see McCarthy go to be honest, but it had to happen for the issue to move forward.

Having been born in Cork (only lived there for my first 5 months mind you) I always had a great gra for their teams, have a brother lving down there for years with all his little rebel and rebelettes, have many friends from the county etc.

I hope they don't win another game of hurling or football for a very long time, I understand the frustrations that players had with  structures etc. I understand the frustrations that normal club members have felt. I don't give a fcuk, the whole lot of ye have done more to disrupt the structures of the assocation for everyone, I wish nothing but bad luck for these lads on the playing fields for a great many years to come.

[Tatler Jack]

like the Cloyne motion which made so much sense, could be ruled out of order.

Just to clarify the Cloyne motion was not at convention but from the floor of a monthly board meeting. A vote was taken on it and it was defeated. The motion while well intended was badly constructed and would have been impossible to implement

The IC players have done all they can on this. They can't make club decisions for them, they can't hold our hand. It's up to the clubs now. But ironically I don't know if the motivation is there anymore because Gerald's gone. .

I agree and this shows the total hypocrisy of many who wanted Ger Mac out. They were losing the argument about his coaching abilities and a well orchestrated emotional campaign was mounted around the undemocratic CB, etc. It got a lot of support simply becasue supporters wanted the best team on the field. Most of those marching cared little about GAA structures, etc - at least if I take my own club as a yardstick.  AndI don't believe the players are overly concerned either except in so far as it impacts on them. In fact a lot of problems in Cork are caused by the over concnetration on county teams and some of this is attributable to the players demands.

[realrebel]

didnt john gardiner say live on the radio that he would want john cosidine in the job
then the other night he said he preferred donal
do they know what they want at all

[Zulu]

I agree and this shows the total hypocrisy of many who wanted Ger Mac out. They were losing the argument about his coaching abilities and a well orchestrated emotional campaign was mounted around the undemocratic CB, etc. It got a lot of support simply becasue supporters wanted the best team on the field. Most of those marching cared little about GAA structures, etc - at least if I take my own club as a yardstick.  AndI don't believe the players are overly concerned either except in so far as it impacts on them. In fact a lot of problems in Cork are caused by the over concnetration on county teams and some of this is attributable to the players demands.

I disagree with that analysis TJ, Geralds coaching abilities were only a small part of it, the players went on stike because, firstly they didn't rate or get on with Gerald but secondly and more importantly they saw the CB decision to reapponit him for what it was, a power play against them. Gerald should never have been reappointed (on that everyone agrees) and the players were right to refuse to play for him and more importantly a CB that would reappoint him. Even the stauchest of anti-player posters ended up arguing that the players should have gone through the clubs and the 'right' channels rather than striking which indicates that nobody felt the CB were right to do what they did. At the end of teh day all we argued over was the process to reverse their decision.

[Reillers]

Ya i agree with zulu on the above. And i think too much confusion kids no why the players refused to play. People freely come up with their own assumptions and start criticising them for it. And i know the cloyne was not a convention but i was trying to get across how little they'd care for any motions. Any one that they didn't like would be ruled out me order the cloyne one. And TJ above anything these players love playing for their clubs. It's their life. What affects us at club level affects them. 

[The GAA]

Really OM read the whole post, you constantly pick bits and pieces, a word or two from one line, another two or three words from another line and then you try to form a conclusion from that.
I said Considine had made a hash of the U21s and his record there is poor, but I also said that he's a reasonable reputation as a coach.
The only reason we know that he wasn't the first choice was because the CB said it.
And you really have to ask after all this time why he was appointed by the CB.

You've got Considine, a good enough manager, or you've got Donal O Grady, an oustantding manager, but wasn't appointed purely because he came out in support of the palyers in the past few months, because of the things he said about the CB..the truth basically.

So, it's made clear that Considine wasn't picked because of his abilities, but because he wasn't O Grady. And that's not fair on the man.

Thats life Reillers if I write a newspaer column criticising my boss he's not going to employ me. It doesn't matter the rights and wrongs of it. They were never going to appoint him its human nature.

Frank Murphy is not O'Grady's boss – nor was he McCarthy's boss. Appointments should be made for the good of cork hurling and not because of personal vendettas. Sure isn't that what got us here in the first place?

Perhaps it is untrue but Gerald McCarthy made that claim on Tuesday evening. Its now Friday and still no response from the players. You'd think they'd be quick to nip such a damning lie in the bud. What reason have they for not commenting on this? Because if its untrue, then their name is being dragged through the mud. That's not what they want, is it?

I for one am glad that the tit for tat crying to the papers is over. The anti player brigade have been complaining about the players answering McCarthy in the press for long enough. I'd have thought that everyone would welcome this restraint.

I have to agree with OM. No one here questioned Donal OGrady's ablility to manage but there's a perfectly good reason why right now is not the time for his return.

The only reason I can see is that the county board don't want him. Where are we going if these appointments are going to continue to done out of personal spites.

O'Grady wants the job - the delegated voted last night by 77-39 not to vote for him - they chose Considine instead

This is symptomatic of the general problem. Had the clubs been given input O'Grady would have won by a landslide. Irrespective if he wants the full time job and the appointment is made arbitrarily, he'll get it.

Missed Marty Morrissey on Late Late there - what was he saying about Cork ??

Loughnane would put manners in a few of those lads !!   

Yeah, Loughnane's views on the dispute are well documented.
His views on McCarthy sum up my own perfectly:

It's difficult to have any sympathy for Gerald. He has allowed himself to be manipulated to serve Frank Murphy's agenda

I also agree with this:

Gerald McCarthy has gone but there are further battles to be waged in Cork hurling.
The central problem hasn't been settled because Frank Murphy is still in place ... the battle now will be between the clubs and the county board executive. Unless the clubs pursue their cause right to the end, a dispute of this sort will flare up again. There has to be a root-and-branch reform of the way that the Cork county board operates.

[INDIANA]

I agree GAA its difficult to have any sympathy with anyone who's had death threats made against them. Classy.

[The GAA]

I agree GAA its difficult to have any sympathy with anyone who's had death threats made against them. Classy.

well Loughnane is talking about the hurling situation and made the comment before McCarthy resigned - not that i'm surprised you didn't check that first.

[Reillers]

Speaking of Lougnnane was looking for the actual version but I couldn't find it, this will have to do..someone rewrote it..poorly.

View Post
The clubs have to insist that Frank goes.Here is Ger Loughnanes take on things.

Gerald McCarthy has gone but there are further battles to be waged.The central problem hasnt been settled because Frank Murphy is still in place.The 08 players have acted very wisely leaving matters in the hands of the clubs.

The battle now will be between the clubs and the board executive.Unless the clubs pursue therir cause right to the end, trouble like this will flare up again.There has to be a complete reform of the way that the Cork county board operates.Murphy is a full time employee of the board and the man with the most power, his positition must come under scrutiny. He did a lot of good work for cork but has been there too long and that made him complacent and arrogant. What everyone is asking is why it took Gerald so long to step aside.

The people who did the right thing are the players of the 2008 panel. Unlike most other counties at the very start of this dispute they went to Gerald in a manly way and told him that the whole panel didn't want him as manager. Gerald should have left that day but it took him 5 months to fall on his sword.

It wasn't all Gearld's fault, he was being used by higher powers on Leeside but he should have recognised that when you have 30 players against you it's time to bail out. It's very hard to have any pity for Gerald because he allowed himself to be used and manipulated. Hurling needs Cork to have their best team on the field for the championship. Without them the Munster championship would be a disaster and the All Ireland would be greatly diminished.

It will be very difficult for any new manager coming in because you have the 08 squad and the 09 squad. Who coming in would be strong enough to handle that situation? Looking around Cork only one name springs to mind. Donal O'Grady is the only man who would be big enough for this challenge and have the respect of everybody. The man coming in has some hard decisions.

Some players who took a great and brave stand against Gerald might have to be let go. One thing that has come out of this dispute is the respect there is all over Ireland for the 2008 Cork hurlers. Their mental toughness, their willingness to put their own futures on the line because of something they believe in, they are an extraordinary bunch.

Everybody realises now that it is the intrests of Cork hurling that they had at heart, not money or their profiles as their critics would have you believe.

[INDIANA]

I know exactly what Loughnane said and as I said before in keeping with his personality. Classy- himself and the Cork hurlers would get on like a house on fire I'd say.

[The GAA]

Is that an apology to Loughnane then?

[INDIANA]