McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[INDIANA]

Reilers I've seen pretty much every Cork minor and u21 team for the last 4 years. You're miles behind the likes of Tipp- this conveyor belt of talent doesn't exist and I'm categoric about that. I'd say Considine did as well as he could with limited material.
People won;t employ people who criticise them- regardless of the right thing to do. Thats life unfortunately.

True. The sad thing is the talents there. That's what's overwhelmingly depressing. And anyone who does make it to senior level at this stage will have done so inspite of everything else because there is absolute no structure at all for the youth structures.
The U21 team were one of the favourites to win the competition last season but they lost to an inferrior team in Clare in one of the most disgraceful preformances I've seen from a Cork team in a long time, they simply didn't try. It was a day after a few had played with the seniors against Galway, but no one, with the exception of one or two, couldn't remember now if I tried who, made an effort. It was sinfull.
I'm not saying that's his fault at all, it's just what happened. This year the U21 team is even better then last years but because of the pathetic

Against the minors the same thing happened. They lost to a Galway side who they should have beaten but they just stopped playing. They should have beaten the Galway team who were robbed in the final imo.

There is talent at U21 and Minor level but you can only get so far with skill and talent, you need support and structures at every level, especially their age, and we don't have it.

Ya I except that, but what was best for the IC team was put aside because of the CB's personal feelings again.

I saw that u21 team play Dublin last year just prior to the counties playing in the championship. so both teams had their near enough full whack. Dublin had won the corresponding leinster title at minor level so they were fancied. The game ended in a draw a poor game in my view. Both teams were beaten out the gate in the championship a few weeks later. Bar Pat Horgan and Cronin I saw nothing on the Cork team that would suggest they were ready for senior. I go to watch the underage scene more than the seniors. We're improving dramtically but we're still miles behind the likes of Tipp and kilkenny.
Dublin wouldn't fear playing cork at underage level thats how far cork have gone back. The best work O Grady could do is at underage at the moment- director of coaching or something because you've massive problems at underage . you'll never keep pace with tipp and kilkenny based on what I've seen.

[Reillers]

And anyone who does make it to senior level at this stage will have done so inspite of everything else because there is absolute no structure at all for the youth structures.

Reillers I am not having a go at you but what do you mean by this and what do you propose. And what are the reasons for it. Are you saying there are not enough coaches, games, or what. Lazily blaming the CB is a cop out - are there proposals from the clubs that the CB have blocked. I don't think so. I agree Cork are falling behind and I feel there are many reasons including struggling clubs because too few get involved, over concentration on the 2 senior teams that impacts on club games and under age , plus  competition from other sports.

I don't have all the answers but a start might be to analyse the problem properly and for some Cork people to be a little less arrogant.

There are no structures at youth level and the CB see no reason to fix it. Nor do they seem to find a reason to fix our stadium.
There are pathetic structures for youth levels, don't even start me on the clubs structures.

Why do you think the Croke Park in their proposal to basically strip the CB of their powers. There's a reason they did it and it was a true reflection of the CB.

[INDIANA]

So they are allowed no input at all.
They weren't allowed to say who they, the people who'd be working with him, would prefer. Everyone thought O Grady would be appointed anyway.

I'd be more insulted about what the CB did then what the players said. It's obvious for anyone with a brain who the players would prefer and Considine would know that.

I don't remember anyone saying that we wouldn't go outside the county, unless I'm wrong.

They aren't involved in Dublin Reillers, because I know very few of the Dublin footballers would want the management they ahve now because they are totally unproven. But they weren't asked. Maybe thats backward but Dublin bring in a fair chunk of revenue very year . Like I said go outside- get the clubs to petition for an outside manager.
How about Loughnane , Cregan, Cyril Farrell, Michael Duiganan?

[orangeman]

Missed Marty Morrissey on Late Late there - what was he saying about Cork ??


Loughnane would put manners in a few of those lads !!   

[Reillers]

So they are allowed no input at all.
They weren't allowed to say who they, the people who'd be working with him, would prefer. Everyone thought O Grady would be appointed anyway.

I'd be more insulted about what the CB did then what the players said. It's obvious for anyone with a brain who the players would prefer and Considine would know that.

I don't remember anyone saying that we wouldn't go outside the county, unless I'm wrong.

They aren't involved in Dublin Reillers, because I know very few of the Dublin footballers would want the management they ahve now because they are totally unproven. But they weren't asked. Maybe thats backward but Dublin bring in a fair chunk of revenue very year . Like I said go outside- get the clubs to petition for an outside manager.
How about Loughnane , Cregan, Cyril Farrell, Michael Duiganan?

They didn't want to be involved, and they don't, they've made that very clear, but not allowed to have any input, not to say who they would have prefered. I presumed, a lot of us presumed, and I presume the players did as well, that O Grady would be appointed. He was the obvious choice.
Thought it was a forgone conclusions. Apparently the CB had different ideas though.

And outside the county, I doubt it'd happen. The cb would probably only look inhouse.

[Tatler Jack]

There are no structures at youth level and the CB see no reason to fix it. Nor do they seem to find a reason to fix our stadium.
There are pathetic structures for youth levels, don't even start me on the clubs structures.

Why do you think the Croke Park in their proposal to basically strip the CB of their powers. There's a reason they did it and it was a true reflection of the CB.

I asked you to analyse what is wrong and why not just a generalisation. And why are clubs not clamouring for change. Its easy to blame the CB for everything - what about divisional boards who have plenty of power to address problems.  I have told you what I believe are the problems and the big problem I see in Cork that it is a dual county and too much is sacrificed for the county teams (fixtures postponed, etc). I would give less priority to county teams for 5 years and put priority on improving the standard of club c'ships and under age.

What would you do Reillers?

[orangeman]

They didn't want to be involved, and they don't, they've made that very clear,


That's hilarious ! Mc Carthy is appointed - no we don't him - well he's the manager - ok we'll go on strike until we get him out - Mc Carthy is forced to resign after intimidation, marches and threats. There's a meeting to vote in a new manager and the captain of the main protaganists makes contact with the chairman to tell him who they want !!!

[Reillers]

There are no structures at youth level and the CB see no reason to fix it. Nor do they seem to find a reason to fix our stadium.
There are pathetic structures for youth levels, don't even start me on the clubs structures.

Why do you think the Croke Park in their proposal to basically strip the CB of their powers. There's a reason they did it and it was a true reflection of the CB.

I asked you to analyse what is wrong and why not just a generalisation. And why are clubs not clamouring for change. Its easy to blame the CB for everything - what about divisional boards who have plenty of power to address problems.  I have told you what I believe are the problems and the big problem I see in Cork that it is a dual county and too much is sacrificed for the county teams (fixtures postponed, etc). I would give less priority to county teams for 5 years and put priority on improving the standard of club c'ships and under age.

What would you do Reillers?

The clubs have only started "clamouring for change" lately because the of the players.
Divisonal boards have plenty power? Really, first I heard of it. They don't, know one does compared to FM.
Oh and dual county, that reminds me, the little attention they pay to football is almost as sinful as the state of our grounds.

There's a reason why this was proposed and looking back now I wished they'd have taken it if I'm honest, but that's hindseight for ya.

"Croke Park proposed appointing a person to review best practice in other counties for implementation in Cork as well as appointing a committee to review relationships between the various bodies in Cork GAA, and a strategic review covering development strategies, fixture planning and other issues was to be carried out and incorporated into a five-year plan."

What would I do. Get rid of all the CB execs who are in large power drunk and lazy.
They haven't done much positive things for a long time for Cork GAA.
And what this fight has done is taken attention away from what in my view, are more serious problems at youth level, structures in the clubs..etc.

I'd get rid of the lot of them. And I'd be fast to get rid of the CB delegates as well, some who continue to go against their clubs wishes.

I'd get rid of FM and co and build on from there, if that meant Cork taking a year or two to rebuild it would be worth it, if we got rid of FM, if he left with Cooney it would be the single greatest thing that has happened in Cork GAA for a long, long time.

[Tatler Jack]

Reillers lets assume you have abolished the CB and all the delegates what would you do if you were appointed say County Chairman or you replaced Frank? Thats what I want to know genuinely not just a childish repeat of your tirade against the CB. There are far more fundamental problems in Cork that are not all due to CB inadequacies.

As for the divisional boards they have planty of scope to revise their competition structure, under age structures etc But you should realise Reillers that all boards including the CB are composed of people who are volunteers and are usually very significantly involved in their clubs. If you think that there is a big queue of people wating to get involved in GAA administration at CB, Divisional or club level then you are even more uninformed than I had thought.  You may be passionate and sincere Reillers but you always give the impression of somebody who has little knowledge of the reality of an on the ground involved GAA member.

[Reillers]

Reillers lets assume you have abolished the CB and all the delegates what would you do if you were appointed say County Chairman or you replaced Frank? Thats what I want to know genuinely not just a childish repeat of your tirade against the CB. There are far more fundamental problems in Cork that are not all due to CB inadequacies.

As for the divisional boards they have planty of scope to revise their competition structure, under age structures etc But you should realise Reillers that all boards including the CB are composed of people who are volunteers and are usually very significantly involved in their clubs. If you think that there is a big queue of people wating to get involved in GAA administration at CB, Divisional or club level then you are even more uninformed than I had thought.  You may be passionate and sincere Reillers but you always give the impression of somebody who has little knowledge of the reality of an on the ground involved GAA member.

I don't know, it's not my job to know. I would put better structures in at youth level, start there. Set up what the players suggested, oh sorry apparently Gerald, a centre of excellence or whatever it is they called it.
I'd do something, anything, which would be an improvement to what our CB are doing now.
I'd spend time concentrating on the youth. Bringing in that centre of excellence for youth.
The structures of the clubs aren't great, the fixtures are shambolic. The facilities, like your home ground is supposed to be something that you are proud of, ours is a death trap waiting to happen on the pitch. It's in bits, and it represents the Cb imo.

I don't know what I'd do, but it's not my job to know.

There isn't a big que wanting to get involved I am very aware of that, that's the problem. I can't remember the last time there was a debate for jobs at that level.  No one wants the jobs, especially now. And the lads in the jobs are all too comfortbale.
Clubs are struggling on their feet all ready. Cork GAA is on the verge of collapsing. If someone doesn't intervene soon we will fall and will not recover any time this decade.
Knowing what to do in a functioning County where board and players and manager all work as one is one thing, trying to figure out what to do with this mess is another thing completly.

I am a club member and I have been for a very long time. But it's hard to know what to think or do with this pathetic set up.

It's like asking how you'd fix the economy.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Lads I really don't see the issue with Considine as interim manager. Putting O'Grady there now would be dangerous. Let the committee that Croke Park are setting up select the right man for the job and then let him take over from Considine (who is not going to want the job full-time I'd say - not that I can be certain). Were O'Grady to be appointed interim manager the following could easily happen

------------- the players don't want him to go - very likely - and if the outside committee suggest an alternative, the players might go down the militant route again.

We don't want that.

Its not for the county board to appoint a full-time manager, or even an interim who could become full-time. An interim manager has to be appointed that will be purely a stop gap and then let the outside committee suggest the best man for the job long-term and if that happens to be O'Grady, then so be it.

But appointing O'Grady now could lead to even more distrust from certain quarters and whisperings about the players demanding him etc. If O'Grady was appointed the last night on the back of Jerry O'Sullivan's comment abotu Gardiner's input then there'd be holy war. The current route is the best for all concerned.

[Tatler Jack]

I don't know what I'd do, but it's not my job to know.

Thanks for being honest anyway. I was not implying it was your job -   just looking for suggestions.

I am a club member and I have been for a very long time.

I was not suggesting you were not but I wondered at your level of involvement. Not becasue I feel that those involved in clubs are somehow superior but because I have found that people who are not involved in the reality of running a club are often a bit simplistic in their analysis of the problem and the solution. There are a few people I meet the odd occassion I get time to play golf and they are always on about how bad the GAA is in Cork, corrupt CB, etc but none of them are active in their club though all will follow the Cork senior team and will have tickets for the AI if and when Cork are there.  It is fine to say set up new structures but structures need people and volunteers are scarce.  At our AGM last Dec we had about 20 attending most of whom were well over 50 - only one player showed up and no recently retired players attended. When we met to discuss the impasse we had about 60 with plenty  of players and recently retired players.  Many of them spoke about the problems in Cork GAA (lack of structures, etc) but none volunteered to get involved with under age, etc.

I spent many Saturday mornings Reillers coaching under 10's and often had nobody to assist me with up to 40 kids except for my daughter. That was not Frank Murphy's fault or a problem with structures - just a reluctance of people to give up their time.  I knew plenty of fellows who were off playing golf and yet these same fellows would be vociferous enough on the current issue.  In fact when I was involved with under age most of those involved were people from outside Cork like myself who did it for the sake of the youth in our area and as a way of giving something back to the GAA. Maybe Reillers it is time for a lot of peoplein Cork to have a look at themselves and consider how they can contribute to the betterment of Cork GAA rather than railing in pubs,golf clubs, discussions forms on CB preceived shortcomings.

[Reillers]

I don't know what I'd do, but it's not my job to know.

Thanks for being honest anyway. I was not implying it was your job -   just looking for suggestions.

I am a club member and I have been for a very long time.

I was not suggesting you were not but I wondered at your level of involvement. Not becasue I feel that those involved in clubs are somehow superior but because I have found that people who are not involved in the reality of running a club are often a bit simplistic in their analysis of the problem and the solution. There are a few people I meet the odd occassion I get time to play golf and they are always on about how bad the GAA is in Cork, corrupt CB, etc but none of them are active in their club though all will follow the Cork senior team and will have tickets for the AI if and when Cork are there.  It is fine to say set up new structures but structures need people and volunteers are scarce.  At our AGM last Dec we had about 20 attending most of whom were well over 50 - only one player showed up and no recently retired players attended. When we met to discuss the impasse we had about 60 with plently  of players and recently retired players.  Many of them spoke about the problems in Cork GAA (lack of structures, etc) but none volunteered to get involved with under age, etc.

I spent many Saturday mornings Reillers coaching under 10's and often had nobody to assist me with up to 40 kids except for my daughter. That was not Frank Murphy's fault or a problem with structures - just a reluctance of people to give up their time.  I knew plenty of fellows who were off playing golf and yet these same fellows would be vociferous enough on the current issue.  In fact when I was involved with under age most of those involved were people from outside Cork like myself who did it for the sake of the youth in our area and as a way of giving something back to the GAA. Maybe Reillers it is time for a lot of peoplein Cork to have a look at themselves and consider how they can contribute to the betterment of Cork GAA rather than railing i
n pubs,golf clubs, discussions forms on CB preceived shortcomings.

The problem isn't how involved we are in clubs, I've spent many mornings myself as has most of the older members of my club coaching underrage kids. Things like that, that's not where the problem lies. That's not the problem people will willingly give up their time for that and have and continue to do so.

It's the bigger problems that the ordinary GAA member can't fix.

Look I suppose our biggest mistake as part of the GAA in Cork, over the years, was to allow one man to get so powerfull. Like I could explain to you till morning just how much power and influence he has and I still don't think I would be able to get the picture across.
A lot of this has happened through default. We, as clubs have let a lot of this happen, none of us can say we did anything to try and stop it, nobody stood up and said ''you can't do that'' or "you don't have the right" or "enough's enough" or just plain and simple "stop."

Sure if we're honest the single biggest mistake that Cork clubs have made over the years was that we allowed one individual to become
too powerful and untouchable.
Everyone was just too busy taking care of their own club, looking out for themselves. Not looking at the bigger picture and that has cost us dearly in ways I can't even begin to explain.

Only did we eventually say enoughs enough because the players put so much time and effort into it. We, the clubs, need to go forward with it, the players can't do our business, it's not their place and it's not any of their business. It's up to the clubs to take care of club business themselves. To stand on their own two feet and challenge the CB.

Like it was said at the club-player meeting by a club chairman, that, we have no one but ourselves to blame. Or something like that.

[Reillers]

Lads I really don't see the issue with Considine as interim manager. Putting O'Grady there now would be dangerous. Let the committee that Croke Park are setting up select the right man for the job and then let him take over from Considine (who is not going to want the job full-time I'd say - not that I can be certain). Were O'Grady to be appointed interim manager the following could easily happen

------------- the players don't want him to go - very likely - and if the outside committee suggest an alternative, the players might go down the militant route again.

We don't want that.

Its not for the county board to appoint a full-time manager, or even an interim who could become full-time. An interim manager has to be appointed that will be purely a stop gap and then let the outside committee suggest the best man for the job long-term and if that happens to be O'Grady, then so be it.

But appointing O'Grady now could lead to even more distrust from certain quarters and whisperings about the players demanding him etc. If O'Grady was appointed the last night on the back of Jerry O'Sullivan's comment abotu Gardiner's input then there'd be holy war. The current route is the best for all concerned.

I've no issue with Considine at all, and as it happens he's accepted it and good luck to him, and maybe my comments on the selectors were harsh, said in the heat of the moment. But it was the way he was nominated is what annoys me. He wasn't voted for because of his ability as manager, but because he was the only alternative to Donal O Grady, that's what bothers me so much.
That for one reason or another the Cb, yet again, let personal feelings get in the way of what's best for Cork GAA.
And JOS didn't have to say what he did about Ga, and I've got to wonder why he said it.
But sure that's irrelevant now. Considine has taken it and best of luck to him.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Your missing my point Reillers. The real manager is going to be appointed by an outside committee. Having a purely interim manager like Considine will make their job easier. Were O'Grady the interim manager it would likely lead to ultimatems etc that he be left there which might only further the dispute. As I say O'Grady may still be the manager. Regardless of what the motives of the board are, and we can't be sure about the delegates thinking on this, the decision they came to is one that will please the external committee greatly and it gives them freedom to select who they feel is the  right person for the job, not feel under pressure to leave a man in charge because of the pressure the players might apply.