McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Zulu]

Quite a sweeping statement there from a normally reserved considerate poster.

I could have said the same for yourself, if there are monetary issues involved in all of this I don't accept it is the driving issue. This IMO is a multi-layered issue and none of us can possibly know all aspects but if the players were motivated by monetary gain I would have thought remaining part of the panel would achieve it best.

I didn't say it was the driving issue. Reillers asked where the players lost my respect and I stated clearly where they did - when they put self gain first.

Striking certainly hasn't hurt the earning power of some of the ring leaders and their profile is now arguably far higher now than back at the time they won AI's..

You seemed to suggest that you felt monetary gain was the reason the players went on strike and that this is why you opposed them, if i took you up wrong then fair enough. Can't say I agree that any of the ring leaders as you call them have a significantly higher profile than before but IMO that is neither here nor there. This issue is about the CCB abusing their position and players not meekly accepting them putting their on field success at risk over a petty power play.

[Zulu]

Could have done it months ago Reillers thats the difference.

Surely you don't still believe that Indiana, after delegates from 3 divisions were shown to misrepresent their clubs?

[Reillers]

Quite a sweeping statement there from a normally reserved considerate poster.

I could have said the same for yourself, if there are monetary issues involved in all of this I don't accept it is the driving issue. This IMO is a multi-layered issue and none of us can possibly know all aspects but if the players were motivated by monetary gain I would have thought remaining part of the panel would achieve it best.

I didn't say it was the driving issue. Reillers asked where the players lost my respect and I stated clearly where they did - when they put self gain first.

Striking certainly hasn't hurt the earning power of some of the ring leaders and their profile is now arguably far higher now than back at the time they won AI's..

How is this self gain.
Are you kidding me, the way the press have bashed them and you think that this will help their so called profile.

Where's the proof for your insulting comments, you don't have any.

The same things are said about the likes of KK get the same as do Waterford, Tipp, Kerry, Tyrone,.etc the list goes on, go complain about them.

[Reillers]

Could have done it months ago Reillers thats the difference. How our Munster doing by the way?

It wouldn't have worked. THe clubs wouldn't have backed them, not fully and united the way they are doing now. I've said it once and I'll say it again, they weren't prepared to wake a sleeping dog. It's one thing to say it in hindsight, but in reality it would never have happened or worked.

[orangeman]

We know how Nemo voted - how did Bishopstown's EGM go ??

[INDIANA]

Could have done it months ago Reillers thats the difference. How our Munster doing by the way?

It wouldn't have worked. THe clubs wouldn't have backed them, not fully and united the way they are doing now. I've said it once and I'll say it again, they weren't prepared to wake a sleeping dog. It's one thing to say it in hindsight, but in reality it would never have happened or worked.

I don't agree, the clubs needed a gentle push in the right direction that was all. All that angst we've seen in the last few weeks has manifeseted itself over 20 years not 4 months. How did Bishopstown vote anyway?

[heffo]

Reillers - I'm not going to quote your long diatribe.

You asked me where the strikers lost my respect - they lost it when they started to put personal monetary gain ahead of the greater needs of the Cork county board and hence the GAA in Cork. Also when one of their leading strikers used the platform of his many commercial activities to spin his story.

You also claimed that the players success on the field was solely down to their own efforts - hence no other factors were involved - I would claim their on pitch success was a combination of multiple factors - not the least of which involve the efforts of countless people from their U8 hurling coach up to the many people in ctheir club who worked tirelessly to put them where they are today - the kind of people who aren't showered with sponsored cars, or given sites to build their vast houses at cost price. The kind of GAA people who represent what the GAA means for me and many others. The kind of people who if offered the choice of self monetary gain or the better good of the GAA would choose the latter.

The strikers imo are the opposite to this and represent a GPA driven agenda which does not represent the GAA for me.

No more then Gerald did. 30/40 times he talked to the press, he was the one who made it personal. The players talked to the press 8/9 times by the time the press conference came around.
When the leading strikers use the platform to do what exactly?
Obviously there are other people involved right from at all levels in the Club. But if you read my post properlly, them as a team from 2002 on, have made themselves what they are.
And why do you go on about cars and shit like that, you've not one bit of proof and it's insulting to say it. They give everything back to the clubs. Don't lecture me about the clubs, I've been the one piping on about the clubs for all of this.
And these players have given everything back into their clubs. They respect what the clubs think, they are leaving it totally up to the clubs, they are going to get them to the table on Sunday and let them run the meeting.
They met the clubs and let them decide, if they went against them then they would disband. They respect the clubs. The CB? Have basically told them that they don't give a damn what they think and are hiding behind a rule.

They've got nothing to do with the GPA in this situation, the GPA haven't made a move on it at all, the clubs have nothing to do with the GPA at all.
How is this driven by the GPA?

That post is even more inarticulate than usual so I'll do my best to respond:

Check your facts re press - GAA legend Ger Mac's character had already been tainted by the time he made his first comment to the press.

"if you read my post properlly, them as a team from 2002 on, have made themselves what they are. " - I did read your post 'properlly' you claimed that the strikers won AI's through their efforts alone - an oft-spun viewpoint by the GPA - there were hundreds of people involved in those players winning an AI

"why do you go on about cars and shit like that, you've not one bit of proof and it's insulting to say it" - Who's that fella in the picture picking up his free car Reillers?? Is that the same fella you were swooning over talking about him training? http://www.cavanaghs.com/NewsDetail.aspx?rowid=120390 . The Sunday Independent claimed that each of the starting fifteen plus some of the subs drive sponsored cars - http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/cork-have-mastered-art-of-not-losing-131983.html - would you mind retracting your comment about 'not one bit of proof'?

"They give everything back to the clubs." - Are you referring to the six figure sums that some of the lads earn each year in commercial activities, as in they redistribute the wealth arising of our their hurling career and hence their club, back to their clubs like Communists? Or are you referring to Sean Og's interview last week where he claimed he hasn't been a committed club person in his words as he didn't have the time (what with constantly driving back and forth to Dublin for sponsorship launches and what not..)

"Don't lecture me about the clubs, I've been the one piping on about the clubs for all of this" - I didn't lecture you on anything - I suggested two months ago that the clubs follow the exact plan they're now following with much success and you claimed it was 'impossible' and that everyone in Cork was terrified and intimidated of a 65 year old man with a combover.

"They've got nothing to do with the GPA in this situation, the GPA haven't made a move on it at all" - I know a non-IC member of the GPA executive well and had a frank conversation with him two weeks ago and they've been in constant contact with their comrades on the striking panel. The GPA also denied membership to the current Cork hurlers. A leading member of the GPA (who used to hurl for Cork a few years ago) was on the stage addressing the few thousand shoppers who stopped to see what all the commotion was about after the march.

[heffo]

Quite a sweeping statement there from a normally reserved considerate poster.

I could have said the same for yourself, if there are monetary issues involved in all of this I don't accept it is the driving issue. This IMO is a multi-layered issue and none of us can possibly know all aspects but if the players were motivated by monetary gain I would have thought remaining part of the panel would achieve it best.

I didn't say it was the driving issue. Reillers asked where the players lost my respect and I stated clearly where they did - when they put self gain first.

Striking certainly hasn't hurt the earning power of some of the ring leaders and their profile is now arguably far higher now than back at the time they won AI's..

How is this self gain.
Are you kidding me, the way the press have bashed them and you think that this will help their so called profile.

Where's the proof for your insulting comments, you don't have any.

The same things are said about the likes of KK get the same as do Waterford, Tipp, Kerry, Tyrone,.etc the list goes on, go complain about them.

"How is this self gain"

I'll dumb it down for you Reillers as you clearly aren't the brightest.

The nice man from Powerade/Lucozade/Adidas/Murphy Sports shop etc etc writes a big cheque and puts the strikers name on it. Striker then lodges the cheque in his bank and uses this money to buy goods and services for himself.

"The same things are said about the likes of KK get the same as do Waterford, Tipp, Kerry, Tyrone,.etc the list goes on, go complain about them" - there are indeed players on all of those panels and more besides who earn money through commercial activities, none of them however have anything approaching the earning power of Corks commercial star however..

[Zulu]

Could have done it months ago Reillers thats the difference. How our Munster doing by the way?

It wouldn't have worked. THe clubs wouldn't have backed them, not fully and united the way they are doing now. I've said it once and I'll say it again, they weren't prepared to wake a sleeping dog. It's one thing to say it in hindsight, but in reality it would never have happened or worked.

I don't agree, the clubs needed a gentle push in the right direction that was all. All that angst we've seen in the last few weeks has manifeseted itself over 20 years not 4 months. How did Bishopstown vote anyway?

Although there can be no end to this particular argument because we will never know what would have happened had they gone a different path I think history has shown they were right to take the path they did. Lots of things have come to light that many doubted was happening and now clubs know exactly how misguided their CB had become, however i really believe that this whole episode will prove benefical to the GAA. As long as people do their best and with the best interests of the GAA at heart then I don't think we will have an overly militant GAA.

[orangeman]

History will say that this was a bitter,nasty,unecessary and most divisive issue apart from the civil war that ever happened in Cork.And that well all was said and done, it was not worth all the pain and hurt.

[Reillers]

You justify the present strike and justify the use of future strikes in certain circumstances. How is that not advocating strike action? 

The key term here is in certain circumstances[/i], there are many instances where we all would agree that doing something we ordinarily wouldn't agree with is ok, for example hitting a guy who just struck your wife/girlfriend as opposed to hitting a guy who bumped off you in a crowded pub.

Surely ther's a conflict in those two statements.

I don't see how. I haven't time now but i'll check back on what post I called rubbish and repost it for you.

I haven't said, nor do I think anyone against the srike has said, that the county board are without fault in this dispute or without faults in general. It is the pro posters who project that. My focus and I would say others is on the strike action.

Everyone seems to agree that the CB reappointed Gerald as a slap in the face to the hurlers and you agree that the democratic process is flawed and can even be manipulated by the CB yet you are trying to argue that the players should have taken this route?

Reillers can dismiss all the quotes he wants but some people saw where this was going and some didn't.

I posted a long time ago that the players would win because once the 09 panel take a few clippings in the league the pressure to get them back would be massive, that turned out to be as accurate a prediction as anything, or are you saying I was wrong?

The reality always was and always will be that the players are the real power base in the GAA, without them administrators, groundsmen, coaches, tea ladies etc. are all pointless but players realise that the other side of the coin holds true also. That players can't play without those different people helping out and because they do they'll never abuse their role, to do so would to bring the whole thing down around their ears. The only reason the players in Cork have gone on strike is because they were justified in doing so and in the end the ordinary club man saw this. If players were to ever go on strike for pay for play then they'd be turfed out and we'd get other lads in or just return to club action as the center piece of the GAA. Scare stories about the imminent destruction of teh GAA are just that, scare strories, the players know the reality of professional sport in Ireland as well as anyone here.

I understand what you're saying Zulu about certain circumstances but you're still an advocate of the use of strike action, even if it is only in certain circumstances.

But who's to define when those certain circumstances apply.

Someone may not strike back in defence of a wife for different reasons and one may be they can't justify such or maybe they would call the guards as a better way to resolve the issue.

Ya, why shouldn't he, if needed what's the problem saying it should be used.
War is needed at times even though no one wants to see it happen, it's needed.

Who's to define when those circumstance apply, no doubt the people in it, the people who feel it relevant, it is not something that people do and take lightly and no doubt if it's needed again by someone else, they will probably have thought it through.
But like I said, no one here can predict what might or mightn't happen.

Actually people can predict fairly well what might happen. Indeed did you not say something to the effect of everyone knew a war was coming?
And have you not predicted Gerald will go at some stage?

Are you acting like this to wind us up or can you actually not understand this?
It's obvious, it's always been obvious that the Cb couldn't get their way forever, that eventually the clubs would fight back.

But what wasn't obvious was how and when it would happen, what wasn't obvious is what happened this time. There was no way anyone could predict what would happen here months ago at the start of all of this.

How can you not understand that, it can't be more simple then that.

Some of us did predict it reillers thats the difference. I'd say you're more familiar with the munster rugby team then the inner workings of Gaa democracy.

Oh and I didn't realise you were from Bishopstown. I thought you said you were from Nemo?

I clearly know a hell lot more then you do about the inner workings of Cork GAA "democracy."
Who said I was from Nemo and who said I was from Bishopstown? Where did you get them from 

[Reillers]

Quite a sweeping statement there from a normally reserved considerate poster.

I could have said the same for yourself, if there are monetary issues involved in all of this I don't accept it is the driving issue. This IMO is a multi-layered issue and none of us can possibly know all aspects but if the players were motivated by monetary gain I would have thought remaining part of the panel would achieve it best.

I didn't say it was the driving issue. Reillers asked where the players lost my respect and I stated clearly where they did - when they put self gain first.

Striking certainly hasn't hurt the earning power of some of the ring leaders and their profile is now arguably far higher now than back at the time they won AI's..

How is this self gain.
Are you kidding me, the way the press have bashed them and you think that this will help their so called profile.

Where's the proof for your insulting comments, you don't have any.

The same things are said about the likes of KK get the same as do Waterford, Tipp, Kerry, Tyrone,.etc the list goes on, go complain about them.

"How is this self gain"

I'll dumb it down for you Reillers as you clearly aren't the brightest.

The nice man from Powerade/Lucozade/Adidas/Murphy Sports shop etc etc writes a big cheque and puts the strikers name on it. Striker then lodges the cheque in his bank and uses this money to buy goods and services for himself.

"The same things are said about the likes of KK get the same as do Waterford, Tipp, Kerry, Tyrone,.etc the list goes on, go complain about them" - there are indeed players on all of those panels and more besides who earn money through commercial activities, none of them however have anything approaching the earning power of Corks commercial star however..

As do every other player from every other top county.

Now this move could well loose them everything of their so called gain, not playing will do that to ya. Apparently not in your little world.

That's bullshit what you said there at the end, and you've absolutely no proof what so ever, if you continue to post things like that that in my view are highly insulting about the players, with no proof and backing I will report it.

[INDIANA]

You justify the present strike and justify the use of future strikes in certain circumstances. How is that not advocating strike action? 

The key term here is in certain circumstances[/i], there are many instances where we all would agree that doing something we ordinarily wouldn't agree with is ok, for example hitting a guy who just struck your wife/girlfriend as opposed to hitting a guy who bumped off you in a crowded pub.

Surely ther's a conflict in those two statements.

I don't see how. I haven't time now but i'll check back on what post I called rubbish and repost it for you.

I haven't said, nor do I think anyone against the srike has said, that the county board are without fault in this dispute or without faults in general. It is the pro posters who project that. My focus and I would say others is on the strike action.

Everyone seems to agree that the CB reappointed Gerald as a slap in the face to the hurlers and you agree that the democratic process is flawed and can even be manipulated by the CB yet you are trying to argue that the players should have taken this route?

Reillers can dismiss all the quotes he wants but some people saw where this was going and some didn't.

I posted a long time ago that the players would win because once the 09 panel take a few clippings in the league the pressure to get them back would be massive, that turned out to be as accurate a prediction as anything, or are you saying I was wrong?

The reality always was and always will be that the players are the real power base in the GAA, without them administrators, groundsmen, coaches, tea ladies etc. are all pointless but players realise that the other side of the coin holds true also. That players can't play without those different people helping out and because they do they'll never abuse their role, to do so would to bring the whole thing down around their ears. The only reason the players in Cork have gone on strike is because they were justified in doing so and in the end the ordinary club man saw this. If players were to ever go on strike for pay for play then they'd be turfed out and we'd get other lads in or just return to club action as the center piece of the GAA. Scare stories about the imminent destruction of teh GAA are just that, scare strories, the players know the reality of professional sport in Ireland as well as anyone here.

I understand what you're saying Zulu about certain circumstances but you're still an advocate of the use of strike action, even if it is only in certain circumstances.

But who's to define when those certain circumstances apply.

Someone may not strike back in defence of a wife for different reasons and one may be they can't justify such or maybe they would call the guards as a better way to resolve the issue.

Ya, why shouldn't he, if needed what's the problem saying it should be used.
War is needed at times even though no one wants to see it happen, it's needed.

Who's to define when those circumstance apply, no doubt the people in it, the people who feel it relevant, it is not something that people do and take lightly and no doubt if it's needed again by someone else, they will probably have thought it through.
But like I said, no one here can predict what might or mightn't happen.

Actually people can predict fairly well what might happen. Indeed did you not say something to the effect of everyone knew a war was coming?
And have you not predicted Gerald will go at some stage?

Are you acting like this to wind us up or can you actually not understand this?
It's obvious, it's always been obvious that the Cb couldn't get their way forever, that eventually the clubs would fight back.

But what wasn't obvious was how and when it would happen, what wasn't obvious is what happened this time. There was no way anyone could predict what would happen here months ago at the start of all of this.

How can you not understand that, it can't be more simple then that.

Some of us did predict it reillers thats the difference. I'd say you're more familiar with the munster rugby team then the inner workings of Gaa democracy.

Oh and I didn't realise you were from Bishopstown. I thought you said you were from Nemo?

I clearly know a hell lot more then you do about the inner workings of Cork GAA "democracy."
Who said I was from Nemo and who said I was from Bishopstown? Where did you get them from 

Reillers you're from bishopstown, don't mind how I know. The way I see it Cork just needed  a gentle push in the right direction and they got it. you should have more faith in democracy its what nations are built on.

[Reillers]

You justify the present strike and justify the use of future strikes in certain circumstances. How is that not advocating strike action? 

The key term here is in certain circumstances[/i], there are many instances where we all would agree that doing something we ordinarily wouldn't agree with is ok, for example hitting a guy who just struck your wife/girlfriend as opposed to hitting a guy who bumped off you in a crowded pub.

Surely ther's a conflict in those two statements.

I don't see how. I haven't time now but i'll check back on what post I called rubbish and repost it for you.

I haven't said, nor do I think anyone against the srike has said, that the county board are without fault in this dispute or without faults in general. It is the pro posters who project that. My focus and I would say others is on the strike action.

Everyone seems to agree that the CB reappointed Gerald as a slap in the face to the hurlers and you agree that the democratic process is flawed and can even be manipulated by the CB yet you are trying to argue that the players should have taken this route?

Reillers can dismiss all the quotes he wants but some people saw where this was going and some didn't.

I posted a long time ago that the players would win because once the 09 panel take a few clippings in the league the pressure to get them back would be massive, that turned out to be as accurate a prediction as anything, or are you saying I was wrong?

The reality always was and always will be that the players are the real power base in the GAA, without them administrators, groundsmen, coaches, tea ladies etc. are all pointless but players realise that the other side of the coin holds true also. That players can't play without those different people helping out and because they do they'll never abuse their role, to do so would to bring the whole thing down around their ears. The only reason the players in Cork have gone on strike is because they were justified in doing so and in the end the ordinary club man saw this. If players were to ever go on strike for pay for play then they'd be turfed out and we'd get other lads in or just return to club action as the center piece of the GAA. Scare stories about the imminent destruction of teh GAA are just that, scare strories, the players know the reality of professional sport in Ireland as well as anyone here.

I understand what you're saying Zulu about certain circumstances but you're still an advocate of the use of strike action, even if it is only in certain circumstances.

But who's to define when those certain circumstances apply.

Someone may not strike back in defence of a wife for different reasons and one may be they can't justify such or maybe they would call the guards as a better way to resolve the issue.

Ya, why shouldn't he, if needed what's the problem saying it should be used.
War is needed at times even though no one wants to see it happen, it's needed.

Who's to define when those circumstance apply, no doubt the people in it, the people who feel it relevant, it is not something that people do and take lightly and no doubt if it's needed again by someone else, they will probably have thought it through.
But like I said, no one here can predict what might or mightn't happen.

Actually people can predict fairly well what might happen. Indeed did you not say something to the effect of everyone knew a war was coming?
And have you not predicted Gerald will go at some stage?

Are you acting like this to wind us up or can you actually not understand this?
It's obvious, it's always been obvious that the Cb couldn't get their way forever, that eventually the clubs would fight back.

But what wasn't obvious was how and when it would happen, what wasn't obvious is what happened this time. There was no way anyone could predict what would happen here months ago at the start of all of this.

How can you not understand that, it can't be more simple then that.

Some of us did predict it reillers thats the difference. I'd say you're more familiar with the munster rugby team then the inner workings of Gaa democracy.

Oh and I didn't realise you were from Bishopstown. I thought you said you were from Nemo?

I clearly know a hell lot more then you do about the inner workings of Cork GAA "democracy."
Who said I was from Nemo and who said I was from Bishopstown? Where did you get them from 

Reillers you're from bishopstown, don't mind how I know. The way I see it Cork just needed  a gentle push in the right direction and they got it. you should have more faith in democracy its what nations are built on.

Never said I was so how do you know if that's where I from?

[orangeman]

 if you continue to post things like that that in my view are highly insulting about the players, with no proof and backing I will report it.


Highly insulting comments worthy of a report to the authorities  

How did the Bishopstown vote go Reillers ?