McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[The GAA]

If there are situations in other county boards as poor and as damaging to the GAA in that county as there is in cork then i would expect, never mind support, whatever action was necessary to rectify it. If that action is in the form of motions tothe county executive then fair enough if it gets the job done. but if it requires clubs withdrawing fees, witholding players, etc then also air enough. If it requires players to withdraw their services to highlight malpractice then also fair enough.

everything in proportion though

[INDIANA]

You see Zulu that's exactly what you are advocating and the problem is you don't even fecking realise it.

I'd agree . Cork is a unique case in my view, you've no idea of how many parties the county boards have to keep happy and its an impossible task at times. The problem we have at the moment is that a lot of top class inter county players would prefer to go professional and expect pfofessional standards. that can only be achieved up to a point in an amateur context. I think a lot of players out there realise that and work within those parameters but a growing minority don't. The problem is a lot of these players dont realise that and the Cork case will probably become prevalent elsewhere.
So if people want a fully professional organisation supporting at max 6-7 teams then just continue down this road because thast where its heading. Just in case anyone thinks I'm backward, I've trained teams at all levels recently but I realise there is a limit to what you can expect whether its club or county in an amateur organisation.

[The GAA]

You see Zulu that's exactly what you are advocating and the problem is you don't even fecking realise it.

I'd agree . Cork is a unique case in my view, you've no idea of how many parties the county boards have to keep happy and its an impossible task at times. The problem we have at the moment is that a lot of top class inter county players would prefer to go professional and expect pfofessional standards. that can only be achieved up to a point in an amateur context. I think a lot of players out there realise that and work within those parameters but a growing minority don't. The problem is a lot of these players dont realise that and the Cork case will probably become prevalent elsewhere.
So if people want a fully professional organisation supporting at max 6-7 teams then just continue down this road because thast where its heading. Just in case anyone thinks I'm backward, I've trained teams at all levels recently but I realise there is a limit to what you can expect whether its club or county in an amateur organisation.

You see Indiana that's the sort of stuff from you that bugs me.

You really should cop on with this attitude that you know better than the rest of us, whether its on the running of clubs, county boards or teams. You have no idea of the experience or expertise of the people posting and reading this board. Guaranteed there are people as exerienced as any in the country in all 3 areas reading this thread every day.

How many of these top class intercounty players want to go professional and wher do you get your numbers from. Even if here are a handful, do they believe they can? i want to play for the chicago bulls and reintroduce MJ's old jersey but it's not gonna happen. why post that nonsense?

What people want a fully professional organisation supporting 6/7 teams and where do you get this scare story?

[INDIANA]

Look Gaa if you want to stick you head in the sand then do so. I don't think you're up to date with the modern player or what they are looking for, train a few teams at the appropriate level and come back to me. Supporters demand professional standards from players who in turn demand professional standards from county boards who in turn haven't the finance to give it to them in many cases. A lot of players see the parameters, a lot of them don't . Al lot of them see what a bigger better financed county has and they decide they want some of that. They can't get it.

[Reillers]

Look Gaa if you want to stick you head in the sand then do so. I don't think you're up to date with the modern player or what they are looking for, train a few teams at the appropriate level and come back to me. Supporters demand professional standards from players who in turn demand professional standards from county boards who in turn haven't the finance to give it to them in many cases. A lot of players see the parameters, a lot of them don't . Al lot of them see what a bigger better financed county has and they decide they want some of that. They can't get it.

And I don't think you're anywhere near "up to date" on the Cork situation yet you continue to post and "stick your head in the sand."

You've no idea what any players want so stop talking like you do, you are generalising with no facts, info or proof just to prove and back your opinion. It's bullshit.
And you've "trained a few times at the appropriate level"..in Dublin. Again never have I once come across a club players, especially if they're not IC players who want it pro.

Of course players want professional standards and fans want a professional job done. But that's it. Maybe some do want it to go pro, some don't. But you've got absolutely no proof to suggest either way.
They want top class training and top class facilities because too much of them is expected and they give up too much of themselves to get to where they are, especially at the top, to be expected to do so with shit training and facilties and such.

But again you've no idea what people want in the game and training a few apparently appropriate level teams, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. Means nothing.
There's absolutely no way that you can even guess what they are thinking anywhere else so stop talking through your ass.

[Zulu]

I can't speak for GAA but I certainly have and currently am involved in high level football and although I haven't been directly involved at senior IC level yet I am in close contact with both players and coaches who are. Dowling's and now your arrogance on this is astounding, in your most recent post both of you attempt to tell me what my posts actually mean and suggest that myself and other pro-player posters can't see the future while both of you see it with perfect clarity. Utter nonsense, I can't nor do I claim to know everything that goes on a each level  of the GAA, no more than you or dowling can, but I have been involved up to IC as a player, I've been a club secretary and a coach of teams from U6 to senior level so I know a thing or two about how the GAA works.


You are again peddleing the scare stories that too many GAA people fall back on when debating anything out of the norm, one of the main reasons that we shouldn't have allowed CP be used for soccer/rugby was the fear of where it would lead, some lads even swore LR would never be built, now your trying to tells that some IC players are trying to force a 6/7 team professional GAA on us.

And dowling grow up for Christ sake, in nearly all your posts you paint yourself as some kind of restrained logical zen like debater while anyone who disagrees with you is showing you 'contempt' or you've had to 'put up with shite', get over yourself man. This debate has got heated at times and some people (on both sides) have said things that maybe they shouldn't have but by and large it has been debated in a fairly reasonable manner and all the rest of us are mature enough to be able to give and take a small bit of 'extras' without taking as a personal insult.

[INDIANA]

You're damned by what's typed in plain english. Why don't you read your posts. Anybody with any version of laymen's pigeon english would have come to the same conclusion. This is all part of a vicious circle. Why don't you talk to inter county managers and ask them the level that's expected of them to prepare for senior inter county championship regardless of whether they are training Carlow or Cork.
Why do you think so many managers get the bullet after one season? There is a desperate of naiveity here in relation to this. Anybody who thinks the GAA isn'tinevitably heading towards semi-professionalism in the next 10-12 years is kidding themselves.
The repurcussions of this are that it will be mirrored elsewhere. You think thats a good thing. So lets look a scenario where County A , a small county is situated beside County B a big county. County A what to train with the same setup as County B. The county board tell them they can't afford it. County A decide to go on strike, claming the county board are out of date and what them turfed out for newer blood. A very plausible scenario in my view.
If people think is the end of this, you're absolutely living in dreamland.

[Zulu]

Were you drinking when you posted that early this morning dowling? There is so much wrong with it it's hard to know where to start, I've referred to some of it in my previous post but I'm beginning to think your a pure chancer, you've questioned Reillers connection to the Cork hurlers yet you've hardly posted on any other topic on this board, that seems strange to me. You also portray yourself as a knowledgable GAA man yet you said this...

I would have put a motion in to county convention to go before congress that paid county secretaries, as I believe all now are, are disqualified from being recognised as county officers and allowed no input unless sought from the CB into county board decisions

You don't need to be an expert on GAA matters to know this is far from true. As for the rest of your post how anyone who has already agreed (as you have) that the democratic process is flawed and has agreed that secretaries can manipulate votes to get what they want could argue that the players go through this process is beyond belief. By going on strike the players forced the ordinary club man to get involved and not simply allow one man (their delegate) to represent them. Even at that it took a few hammerings in the league before they got off their arses to make their feelings known.

Hopefully you won't think that by disagreeing with you I'm giving you 'shite'

[Zulu]

You're damned by what's typed in plain english. Why don't you read your posts. Anybody with any version of laymen's pigeon english would have come to the same conclusion. This is all part of a vicious circle. Why don't you talk to inter county managers and ask them the level that's expected of them to prepare for senior inter county championship regardless of whether they are training Carlow or Cork.
Why do you think so many managers get the bullet after one season? There is a desperate of naiveity here in relation to this. Anybody who thinks the GAA isn'tinevitably heading towards semi-professionalism in the next 10-12 years is kidding themselves.
The repurcussions of this are that it will be mirrored elsewhere. You think thats a good thing. So lets look a scenario where County A , a small county is situated beside County B a big county. County A what to train with the same setup as County B. The county board tell them they can't afford it. County A decide to go on strike, claming the county board are out of date and what them turfed out for newer blood. A very plausible scenario in my view.
If people think is the end of this, you're absolutely living in dreamland.

I do read my posts Indiana and I don't think it can be interpreted as you say but even if it can I have clarified that that isn't what I meant, 'damned by what's typed' will you go away out of it, this isn't an interrogation if I misrepresented my view by a poorly structured post then so be it but that doesn't mean it is my view. I have clarified myself so you can take it or leave it, I know my own opinion far better than you or anyone else reading one post. And I regularily talk to IC managers both past and present so I know exactly what it involves, once again you display a great deal of arrogance when you predict a semi-professional GAA, I know of no IC player who thinks it is likely or achievable. As for your 'scenario' well what your talking about already exists for example Waterford football V Cork football, Leitrim football V Mayo football yet these lads aren't striking. I seem to remember you thought that IC coaches would put out mullockers to get themselves and the oppositions star player yellow carded under these new rules, you were wrong about that do you think you could be wrong about this?

[dowling]

If there are situations in other county boards as poor and as damaging to the GAA in that county as there is in cork then i would expect, never mind support, whatever action was necessary to rectify it. If that action is in the form of motions tothe county executive then fair enough if it gets the job done. but if it requires clubs withdrawing fees, witholding players, etc then also air enough. If it requires players to withdraw their services to highlight malpractice then also fair enough.

everything in proportion though

Fair enough to an extent GAA. In spite of my focus on rules and procedures I of course recognise they're flouted all the time or that there are other avenues by which to apply pressure to get a result. Not for all clubs though but the 'bigger' or more successful ones. All clubs aren't on a par when it comes to affecting change. Counties deal with this all the time but very rarely, if ever , would occasions have the potential to split counties like is happening. Everything in proportion is a good point.
The 2008 panel went on strike, not to highlight malpractice, but to affect change to replace the management. This is more profound than what you're talking about because if the panel win on this issue they, in effect, usurp the Cork Board's authority as given to it by clubs. The panel in effect become the authority to select their manager. And it doesn't matter if they say they don't want to pick the manager. But we've been through all that bit.
As for elite players in general looking to make money from playing at county level, and I don't mean through the sponsorship or high profile things.
Talk to a GPA member in a moment of honesty or look at the statements from the GPA over the years referring to increased gate monies that the players create and you'll find that the GPA want a 'slice of the cake' for their members.

As for the Cork panel and the strike. The strike hasn't achieved change, it's only achievement has been to drag the whole county down.
But when you talk about actions to cause pressure why didn't the Cork footballers say they were refusing their holiday or all the perks/welfare benefits before they go on strike. Everything is supposed to be part of a package. At least there would be a bit of a sacrifice there.

[Zulu]

IC players make plenty of sacrifices as it is, a holiday is one of the few perks they get but your getting deperate now to find something to give out about if all you can come up with is teh footballers shouldn't have gone on the holiday.

[Reillers]

On another note the Clon meeting went very well last night.
It ended up being a lot of frustrated angry club reps shouting ideas and frustrations about the CB. Nothing was set in stone but ideas were thrown around.  
A lot of thing were sugested, clubs are beggining to look like they're begginning to become very millitant. To stop playing until this is solved.

Brief outline of the Clon meeting.

'Proposals to replace delegates with chairmen of clubs to ensure correct mandate is taken to meeting. (this is provided for in the rules).

Each secretary is to put a proposal before the CCB to call a special county convention. (Tuesday is not one).

All club activities to cease.(Looking for clarification of what this means)

GMC, FM and 3 players to step aside.

Clubs make sure to support delegates who raise motions for change.

We are the rebel county and it's time we got off our asses and rebelled.'


Strong stuff indeed. Apart from the 3 players, it's all pretty much to our liking I would think. Of course if its any 3 players, a few elder guys would step aside I think, but I'm sure they have the obvious 3 in mind.

That's from PROC.

All of these were mainly suggestions. Nothing was confirmed completley.
The 3 players suggestion was met with no's and boes.
It was basically a lot of very angry men venting about the Cb.

A lot of things became very clear last night after that meeting.
That there's feck all trust in the delegates any more.
That the CB is nothing, means nothing, is an object that works AGAINST the clubs and IC players of both codes. They are not doing their job and this was without players there or Cb men.

The CCB are no longer trusted at all, that was proven and backed when Croke Park suggestion of a solution pretty much stripped the CB of their powers, imasculated them, and did it for a reason.
The clubs backed that up last night.

What's also pretty clear now is that there is an overwhelming backing of the players and kinda like Gerald said

It looks like a revolution, it smells like a revolution..

[Reillers]

Cork clubs vent anger at County Board
By Brendan Larkin

A DRAMATIC call was made by John O'Brien, Servicing Officer of the Cork and Munster Vocational Schools Councils, for a root and branch analysis of the Cork County Board, at a meeting of all clubs at the Community Hall, Clonakilty last night.

Over 250 representatives (102 clubs, 52 juniors, 50 senior/intermediate) gathered to hear harsh criticism of the officers of the County Board and in particular secretary Frank Murphy, by a host of speakers who expressed their sheer frustration at the impasse involving the 2008 senior hurlers and their coach Gerald McCarthy.

Mr O'Brien said he understood the county secretary will be 65 years old this year and the clubs needed to know what his intentions were regarding the job.

"We also need to know what Mr Murphy's contract is and I will be asking that at Tuesday night's meeting at the Rochestown Park Hotel.

"We have been beating around the bush long enough on this issue and getting nowhere. It's time for courageous decisions to be taken; hard questions need to be asked.

"The Director General Padraic Duffy and President elect Christy Cooney referred to a root and branch analysis needing to be done and I would certainly endorse that."

Clonakilty official John McCarthy said there was a huge communication gap between the County Board and the club.

"There appears to be only a one way track. It's a shocking way to be treating people who are working extremely hard on the ground promoting the games."

Referring to the recent address of a county board meeting by Gerald McCarthy the Clon delegate said asking the delegates to vote by a show of hands was not the way to conduct business.

"It's time for the clubs of this county to take back control of our association. I would applaud the players who said they would accept whatever decision the clubs made and would disband.

"If Gerald McCarthy decided to take a similar stand this matter would be over by now. We need new delegates with fresh ideas to represent us at the county board.

"I'm not including the Clonakilty delegate in that but the majority of the present delegates do not reflect the views of their clubs at county board meetings."

'We reneged on responsibilities and we need to address that'

The Randal Óg delegate said it was time to call a spade a spade. "I cannot understand how a group of people could sit around a table and pick Gerald McCarthy as manager of the senior hurling team know full well that he was not wanted by the players.

"Gerald McCarthy was given two years as coach and he failed miserably. If that happened in my club the manager would be kicked out the door."

The Blarney delegate said it was not as hard as people thing to change the county board. "We have reneged on our responsibilities over the years and we need to address that now, but it can only be done through the structures of the association."

The St Mary's delegate called on every senior and intermediate club present to force this issue onto the floor at next Tuesday night's meeting, and put the wishes of their clubs forward.

"I would also call on all divisional officers to hold a meeting and instruct their delegates to vote according to the wishes of the clubs."

The Banteer delegate called for a withdrawal of all clubs from playing activity from the first of April saying that it was one way to get the players back playing.

"It would be interesting to see what the reaction of the board would be if we took that kind of action.

"The county chairman is the man to solve this impasse and he should do what he was elected to do. Gerald McCarthy is being used as a pawn in this struggle."

At the conclusion of the meeting which lasted almost two hours, it was unanimously agreed that the host club would send the following motion to the County Board: "We the Clonakilty GAA Club call on the Cork County board to call a special convention to deal with the present impasse."

[anglocelt39]

We would all, to a man, prefer to be labelled as difficult than as cowards to be seen as fanatical rather than morally weak; to be seen as acting above our station rather than subservient and self-serving."

Now feckit Reillers I thought about letting this go but there's been enough Shite posted on this this thread so a bit of pedantry will not go amiss. How exactly can your 29 other mates from the 08 panel be subservient AND self serving at the same time. No, hold on I got it now. Subservient=thanks Frank for getting me off that suspension which I blatantly deserved for acting the tr**p against Clare in 20whatever, Self Serving=in fact Frank you rate right up there with Hitler in terms of where we are at present, no hard feelings like. Now excuse us while we collect our endorsements.

I was making a point.
So answer it, leave you pathetic little petiness regarding the players aside just for one minute and answer me this, should if things are extermley bad with the Cb in Cork and the clubs and IC players are being fucked over every single time, should they shut up or put up?

Right so, so according to you lets f**k what the players think, what the fans think, what the clubs think, it's clear now that the players have a clear mandate. But no, screw what everyone else thinks because you hate the players. This isn't about the players anymore the clubs are not taking the lead ont it.
You've got some serious problem with the players, clearly you've nothing to give to this topic other then bitchyness at the players, whinging and moaning. Unless you're actually going to make a constructive point instead of blatantly insulting people who have done more for GAA then no doubt you ever will, go have a nice cry about it somewhere else. It's clear you couldn't care less about the situation and just want to whinge and bitch about the players. Why don't you save yourself and us some time and go and cry somewhere else if you're not going to discuss it. I'm sick to death of people like you. People who don't give a flying f**k about the situation, about the facts that the clubs have their full backing and such, and just want to winge and cry about the players because they have nothing better to do.

Because if you stoped you're whining over the players you'd realise that it's not just them and that the clubs, the grassroots, have suffered just as much if not more as the IC players over the years and are finally standing up to them. If you took a second to think that maybe God forbid the players were right and maybe just maybe the clubs are behind them for a reason.





Afternoon Reillers, looks like the latest batch of angry pills are working fine. Good things about the 2008 Cork Hurling panel:

Some superb hurlers there, one or two of them probably a bit past their prime and, unfortunately for them, may end up exiting inter county hurling on an unfortunately sour note;

At face value at any rate, an incredibly united and determined bunch of people in going so far in what they see as a legitimate dispute with the Cork County Board and administrators;

Pretty sharp operators in the current battle for hearts and minds in the Rebel County.


So there you are now Reillers, didn't hurt one bit. Just for oul' pig Iron now and in the interests of showing that your prior tantrum was out of character, would you like to reciprocate by detailing:

a. Three good things about the current Cork County Board; and
b. One good thing about Frank Murphy (in addition to scouring the rule book to get your mates off suspensions).

Now that should be a piece of piddle for a lad like yourself who is close to the action in all things Cork GAA.

While you're at it, you wouldn't by any chance have details of the clubs that didn't take up the 2008 Panels invitation to attend meetings, vote on various motions etc.

[heffo]

Whats this fella smoking??

"Referring to the recent address of a county board meeting by Gerald McCarthy the Clon delegate said asking the delegates to vote by a show of hands was not the way to conduct business." - Why not? That's the way every other county in the country conducts their business and they manage to do it without bringing the GAA into disrepute..

"We need new delegates with fresh ideas to represent us at the county board." - it's the role of the delegate to be imaginative and come up with ideas, it's his role to vote under instruction from his club officers....