McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Zulu]

Tbh if we need to see strikes and aggro in other counties then so be it IMO, however I'm not sure any other county is as bad as Cork in this regard. Nevertheless a lot of CB's could do with a shake up and this is clearly evidenced by the club fixtures in many counties.

[orangeman]

On what do you believe the players were to blame GAA, out of curiousity?

Blame is not the word i'd use but there are definitely things i think they should have done differently. i think...
They should have nominated an alternative from the outset - not their preferred choice but someone, which would have demanded an interview process.
They should have demonstrated that the motions and clubs route was a waste of time at the outset of the dispute. even though it would have been a cosmetic exercise, it would have staved off the pedantics who cling to procedure to criticise.
The personal criticism of McCarthy in the press was wrong. the mitigation is that they wereusually responding to personalized criticism from him but they should have maintained the high ground. McCarthy's leaking of the team building document was ammunition enough to illustrate McCarthy's integrity.
They should keep Sean og and Donal og away from press and interviews as they only antagonise those looking to be antagonized - The young fellas should be doing the talikng to demonstrate their cohesion and if nothing else that they're every bit as committed as the rest.
They should be requesting a motion of no confidence in he county executive from the clubs, not in McCarthy. A new executive could simply dismiss McCarthy anyway. i suspect this has been avoided because of the O'Sullivan factor.

We've disagreed before and probably will do so again but your analysis here is spot on ( even if I have contended some of the same things myself ).

[orangeman]

What conclusions can we draw about clubs that don't take a vote?
Are they rightly ignoring an unmandated request or are they denying their membership a voice?

I've been talking to some people down there and they tell me that some clubs are so divided on the issue that they do not want to hold EGMs as they fear that their clubs will be even more divided than they have been at this stage and besides some of them feel that no direct benefit will come to the club itself.

[Reillers]

What conclusions can we draw about clubs that don't take a vote?
Are they rightly ignoring an unmandated request or are they denying their membership a voice?

I've been talking to some people down there and they tell me that some clubs are so divided on the issue that they do not want to hold EGMs as they fear that their clubs will be even more divided than they have been at this stage and besides some of them feel that no direct benefit will come to the club itself.

Which clubs?

[INDIANA]

Tbh if we need to see strikes and aggro in other counties then so be it IMO, however I'm not sure any other county is as bad as Cork in this regard. Nevertheless a lot of CB's could do with a shake up and this is clearly evidenced by the club fixtures in many counties.

Couldn;t disagree more, you're just proposing anarchy there.

[Zulu]

No I'm not, but if there are problems like those in Cork in other counties and if CB's won't address them then the membership of the GAA should take similar action to do what's right. Like I've said I don't think other counties have the type of problems that exist in Cork but hopefully what is happening in Cork will be a wake up call to all administrators in the GAA and they'll remeber why they are there and who has the real power. What has happened down in Cork is that the clubs have taken back control from a small band of administrators and that can only be good for the GAA nationally.

[theskull1]

Tbh if we need to see strikes and aggro in other counties then so be it IMO, however I'm not sure any other county is as bad as Cork in this regard. Nevertheless a lot of CB's could do with a shake up and this is clearly evidenced by the club fixtures in many counties.

Jesus Zulu.....where you live are there capable administrators currently sitting doing nothing just twiddling their thumbs to take up positions when they come available?

Strikes and the associated aggro are devisive and tear us apart. We have too few people as it is doing too many tasks and the last thing the GAA needs is vacuums being created in it's structures no matter how bad things might at an administrative level. Clubs accepting more collective responsibilty to enable them to influence change is the way to bring about positive change at county board level that will benefit everybody. Do you want to think about what you have said again and think through the difficulties that this would create?

[Zulu]

Skull I'm not advocating stikes etc. as the first option or even a perferrable one but the latest point some posters are making is that the players succeeding here will set a dangerous precedent. I don't agree at all, quite the opposite in fact, the clubs of Cork have finally taken ownership of the situation down there due to the players going on strike. You asked me are there able administrators in my county twiddleing their thumbs and I'd have to say yes, I know quite a few lads who don't get involved at CB level because they percieve it to be a closed shop.

[theskull1]

Skull I'm not advocating stikes etc. as the first option or even a perferrable one but the latest point some posters are making is that the players succeeding here will set a dangerous precedent. I don't agree at all, quite the opposite in fact, the clubs of Cork have finally taken ownership of the situation down there due to the players going on strike.

Well I don't see it as taking ownership at all Zulu. They are meerly taking an opinion on the current crisis and they want it resolved - nothing more. The threats of the strikers has brought about mob rule and the rights and wrongs will not be considered in the same way.
Are you saying that these same club members will be filling their clubrooms week on week debating what to do about improving the structures in the county both in terms of coaching standards and fixtures etc etc and instructing the county board on what they should be doing? Time will tell if the clubs have got the stamina to maintain this energy they have got as a result of this current crisis, becuase I am led to believe that Cork hurling is dying on it feet and it will need that energy ....time will tell.

You asked me are there able administrators in my county twiddleing their thumbs and I'd have to say yes, I know quite a few lads who don't get involved at CB level because they percieve it to be a closed shop.

And I presume these same lads are not involved in any way in the GAA at club level? And if they are there's a queue of people waiting to come in behind them to fill the void in their clubs. I am shocked if that is the case. We are crying out for people and cannot get them to come forward. Have you any tips that would help improve our active membership (seriously)

[INDIANA]

Skull I'm not advocating stikes etc. as the first option or even a perferrable one but the latest point some posters are making is that the players succeeding here will set a dangerous precedent. I don't agree at all, quite the opposite in fact, the clubs of Cork have finally taken ownership of the situation down there due to the players going on strike. You asked me are there able administrators in my county twiddleing their thumbs and I'd have to say yes, I know quite a few lads who don't get involved at CB level because they percieve it to be a closed shop.

You are mate thats exactly what you are advocating. You're going down a very dangerous road there. Historically Cork has always been a county of anti-christs so the problems down there aren't a surprise. By and large the rest of the country's county boards do just fine.

[Reillers]

Tbh if we need to see strikes and aggro in other counties then so be it IMO, however I'm not sure any other county is as bad as Cork in this regard. Nevertheless a lot of CB's could do with a shake up and this is clearly evidenced by the club fixtures in many counties.

Jesus Zulu.....where you live are there capable administrators currently sitting doing nothing just twiddling their thumbs to take up positions when they come available?

Strikes and the associated aggro are devisive and tear us apart. We have too few people as it is doing too many tasks and the last thing the GAA needs is vacuums being created in it's structures no matter how bad things might at an administrative level. Clubs accepting more collective responsibilty to enable them to influence change is the way to bring about positive change at county board level that will benefit everybody. Do you want to think about what you have said again and think through the difficulties that this would create?

So you'd rather what? Everyone put up or shut up if things are that bad?

Typical GAA attitude.

Like the players said in their press conference..

"We would all, to a man, prefer to be labelled as difficult than as cowards to be seen as fanatical rather than morally weak; to be seen as acting above our station rather than subservient and self-serving."

[Zulu]

Skull I'm not advocating stikes etc. as the first option or even a perferrable one but the latest point some posters are making is that the players succeeding here will set a dangerous precedent. I don't agree at all, quite the opposite in fact, the clubs of Cork have finally taken ownership of the situation down there due to the players going on strike. You asked me are there able administrators in my county twiddleing their thumbs and I'd have to say yes, I know quite a few lads who don't get involved at CB level because they percieve it to be a closed shop.

You are mate thats exactly what you are advocating. You're going down a very dangerous road there. Historically Cork has always been a county of anti-christs so the problems down there aren't a surprise. By and large the rest of the country's county boards do just fine.

No I'm not Indiana, where did I say that and if my first post came across like that the one you quote clearly states that I'm not so you may as well accept that rather than trying to put your interpretation of one of my posts across as fact. And I disagree that alot of CB's are doing just fine, some are doing fine jobs but I think alot more could be done to promote the games and the club scene is very poorly run in many counties.

Skull I understand that there are many people doing their best administering clubs and counties but what has happened in Cork will show all counties that if the administrators don't do their jobs in the best interests of teh GAA that the players and clubs can call them to task for it even when they try to hide behind procedures and rules.

The bottom line here is that their won't be a run counties facing striking players so we have little to worry about, too many GAA folk don't want anyone or anything to rock the boat not because they think everything is alright but out of fear of what will happen, I don't think that is teh way to run the GAA.

[anglocelt39]

We would all, to a man, prefer to be labelled as difficult than as cowards to be seen as fanatical rather than morally weak; to be seen as acting above our station rather than subservient and self-serving."

Now feckit Reillers I thought about letting this go but there's been enough Shite posted on this this thread so a bit of pedantry will not go amiss. How exactly can your 29 other mates from the 08 panel be subservient AND self serving at the same time. No, hold on I got it now. Subservient=thanks Frank for getting me off that suspension which I blatantly deserved for acting the tr**p against Clare in 20whatever, Self Serving=in fact Frank you rate right up there with Hitler in terms of where we are at present, no hard feelings like. Now excuse us while we collect our endorsements.

[Reillers]

We would all, to a man, prefer to be labelled as difficult than as cowards to be seen as fanatical rather than morally weak; to be seen as acting above our station rather than subservient and self-serving."

Now feckit Reillers I thought about letting this go but there's been enough Shite posted on this this thread so a bit of pedantry will not go amiss. How exactly can your 29 other mates from the 08 panel be subservient AND self serving at the same time. No, hold on I got it now. Subservient=thanks Frank for getting me off that suspension which I blatantly deserved for acting the tr**p against Clare in 20whatever, Self Serving=in fact Frank you rate right up there with Hitler in terms of where we are at present, no hard feelings like. Now excuse us while we collect our endorsements.

I was making a point.
So answer it, leave you pathetic little petiness regarding the players aside just for one minute and answer me this, should if things are extermley bad with the Cb in Cork and the clubs and IC players are being fucked over every single time, should they shut up or put up?

Right so, so according to you lets f**k what the players think, what the fans think, what the clubs think, it's clear now that the players have a clear mandate. But no, screw what everyone else thinks because you hate the players. This isn't about the players anymore the clubs are not taking the lead ont it.
You've got some serious problem with the players, clearly you've nothing to give to this topic other then bitchyness at the players, whinging and moaning. Unless you're actually going to make a constructive point instead of blatantly insulting people who have done more for GAA then no doubt you ever will, go have a nice cry about it somewhere else. It's clear you couldn't care less about the situation and just want to whinge and bitch about the players. Why don't you save yourself and us some time and go and cry somewhere else if you're not going to discuss it. I'm sick to death of people like you. People who don't give a flying f**k about the situation, about the facts that the clubs have their full backing and such, and just want to winge and cry about the players because they have nothing better to do.

Because if you stoped you're whining over the players you'd realise that it's not just them and that the clubs, the grassroots, have suffered just as much if not more as the IC players over the years and are finally standing up to them. If you took a second to think that maybe God forbid the players were right and maybe just maybe the clubs are behind them for a reason.

[dowling]

Skull I'm not advocating stikes etc. as the first option or even a perferrable one but the latest point some posters are making is that the players succeeding here will set a dangerous precedent. I don't agree at all, quite the opposite in fact, the clubs of Cork have finally taken ownership of the situation down there due to the players going on strike. You asked me are there able administrators in my county twiddleing their thumbs and I'd have to say yes, I know quite a few lads who don't get involved at CB level because they percieve it to be a closed shop.

You are mate thats exactly what you are advocating. You're going down a very dangerous road there. Historically Cork has always been a county of anti-christs so the problems down there aren't a surprise. By and large the rest of the country's county boards do just fine.

No I'm not Indiana, where did I say that and if my first post came across like that the one you quote clearly states that I'm not so you may as well accept that rather than trying to put your interpretation of one of my posts across as fact. And I disagree that alot of CB's are doing just fine, some are doing fine jobs but I think alot more could be done to promote the games and the club scene is very poorly run in many counties.

Skull I understand that there are many people doing their best administering clubs and counties but what has happened in Cork will show all counties that if the administrators don't do their jobs in the best interests of teh GAA that the players and clubs can call them to task for it even when they try to hide behind procedures and rules.

The bottom line here is that their won't be a run counties facing striking players so we have little to worry about, too many GAA folk don't want anyone or anything to rock the boat not because they think everything is alright but out of fear of what will happen, I don't think that is teh way to run the GAA.

You see Zulu that's exactly what you are advocating and the problem is you don't even fecking realise it.
You just have to examine the tone of yourself and others, especially reillers recently, and treating those with opposing views with contempt. But as far as you're all concerned it's ok because the end will justify the means and your view will win out in the end.
I've taken your shite here as have others and refrained from the insulting language and tone and have just tried to express my point of view. At times I wonder how some things aren't staring you in the face but I always hoped your understanding or knowledge of overall GAA affairs might be improved. It seems that during the the course of the debate some of you, like the 2008 panel, have become entrenched. Reiller's manner of posts and repeating the same language, to me would suggest he has a connection to the 2008 panel and isn't for taking other views into account however.

You think rules and procedures are shite? Who put those rules and procedures in place? The same clubs you're now saying will take control of this issue and bring it to a conclusion! What's the point of clubs agreeing to put rules and procedures in place in the first instance if in certain circumstances they can be ignored. Or maybe these are exceptional circumstance and the rules and procedures can be ignored? Well to everyone I'd guess these are exceptional circumstances but if any situation arises again who's to say what is and isn't exceptional? If you involve yourself in a debate in your club on an issue to establish a rule or procedure by which the county must abide that is to go to county convention and it's passed at county convention then surely you would expect the county board to uphold the decision made by the clubs. Or do we come back to the 'well in exceptional circumstances' shite. If a 'grouping' within the GAA can bypass the decision making of the clubs in one instance they can do it again.

However there aren't too many 'groupings' who could do that. Non playing members couldn't do, junior players couldn't do it and non county playing members couldn't do it. And you, and especially GAA, could argue that technically why couldn't they but the dogs in the street know they couldn't as a seperate group affect such change and wouldn't in all likelihood choose a path similar to the 2008 panel.

The 2008 panel could have gone through the clubs but couldn't bother their arses because they're above rules and procedures, a quick strike will sort this out. Now the only way they have a chance of a self-serving victory is to use the procedures they spurned. Ironic isn't it. And ironic also that they don't even know nor bothered to check any rules and procedures before they asked the 140 odd clubs - and not 160 Zulu - to consider their motions. They put in some groundwork there. All for the good of Cork and they couldn't get a feckin rulebook to check out their proposals?

Every club the length and breadth of the country has members like this who can tell you everything and know feck all.
Sure the 2008 panel didn't even know what they signed up to last year yet there are idiots on here blindly following them. 'Oh the 2008 panel are right, they know what needs to be done.' The only smart thing they've done is to say we're putting this into the hands of the clubs.
But the sorry thing is that while I and others refer to the 2008 panel most of those boys have been lead, foolishly perhaps but still we all know they've been lead and unfortunately in the same way people on here say the clubs have been unable to stand up to the county board and shame on them, the same applies to those players and the leaders of the strike.

The bottom line to this is that if the 2008 panel win this dispute they hold all power in the county. The county board will be subservient to the 2008 panel and if that panel decides another issue needs sorted what's to stop them getting their way? They wont be bound by rules and procedures and can simply blackmail any county board who doesn't comply with their wishes by 'withdrawing their sevices'. Or do you think the 2008 panel wouldn't or couldn't do that. According to you boys power has corrupted Frank, and you wouldn't get too many arguments on that, but why wouldn't the same apply to the panel and what is there to stop another 'strike'. Rules and procedures?
But hey, maybe you just want other rules and procedures? Thought up and approved of by whom?
The only pro poster who has come close to acknowledging in part the wrongs of the 2008 panel is GAA, surprisingly, but it's taken 300 odd pages and he'll probably be on at the first opportunity to castigate me. but still in spite of that acknowledgement it comes back to 'well if this is what it takes'.
And you know, in spite of Frank maybe writing a lot of rules and procedures it's the clubs who approve them. If the clubs want to change them, fine. But let the clubs used the rules and procedures they approved to do so.


As for this shite I've taken about the GPA, the GPA have shown they're involved. But deny it all you want. What is undeniable however is that the GPA have a vested interest in the outcome of this dispute. And they couldn't give a shite about the state of Cork when all this is done and dusted. They already alluded to the threat of more strikes and that's exactly what will happen, not just in Cork, if the 2008 panel win this dispute. On the one hand the 2008 panel are saying this has nothing to do with the GPA and on the other the GPA are warning of the danger of more strikes.

If I had been Donal og or Sean og or whoever and wanted to nullify Frank and cause little disruption to Cork, I would have put a motion in to county convention to go before congress that paid county secretaries, as I believe all now are, are disqualified from being recognised as county officers and allowed no input unless sought from the CB into county board decisions. Of course you would need to check the rule books and get the wording strictly right and it would need a bit of groundwork but why not? Oh aye because Frank's back pocket is full to the brim!
Sure the 2008 panel, sorry let's be more precise. The leaders of the 2008 panel have the county on a feckin high. Fair feckin play to them!!

Is that language and tone more to your feckin liking?