McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[dowling]

Cork junior club votes may not reach board
by Fintan O'Toole and Michael Moynihan

THE MESSAGE from Cork's junior clubs may be loud and clear in support of the county's 2008 hurlers — but much of their widespread backing won't reach the floor of next Tuesday's crucial county board meeting, it has emerged.

An array of junior clubs have come out in favour of removing Gerald McCarthy as Cork coach and of reform of County Board structures but most divisional boards — which represent such smaller clubs — have no plans to meet ahead of Tuesday.

Carrigdhoun PRO Jim Forbes said the votes being taken amongst their clubs had only been mentioned under correspondence at the last meeting and had not been discussed. Carrigdhoun's next board meeting is due to take place on March 23.

Seandún PRO Derek Connolly said the city board had no plans to meet before next Tuesday's county board meeting and that the matter of votes being taken in clubs had not been discussed. Carbery has no plans to meet until after Tuesday night's meeting, as they are awaiting confirmation of county championship fixtures.

Beara and Duhallow are both expected to discuss the issue at their next board meetings. The West Cork division will mandate their delegate ahead of the county board meeting. "The Beara board met last night," said Beara delegate Mick Reynolds, "but a vote has been put off until after the meeting in Clonakilty (tonight)."

The Duhallow board will meet on Monday night, when it is expected that the current impasse will be discussed after several of the division's 17 junior clubs have held special meetings to vote on the 08 players' motions.

Both the Muskerry and Avondhu boards do not have meetings planned ahead of next Tuesday night. Muskerry PRO Aubert Twomey stated that their next board meeting is scheduled for Monday week and that the bulk of the division's eight junior clubs will be holding meetings on the issue. Avondhu PRO Paddy Ryan revealed that the majority of the 18 junior clubs in their division will be staging egm's either tonight or tomorrow night, and that the next board meeting will take place next Wednesday night.

[The GAA]

On what do you believe the players were to blame GAA, out of curiousity?

Blame is not the word i'd use but there are definitely things i think they should have done differently. i think...
They should have nominated an alternative from the outset - not their preferred choice but someone, which would have demanded an interview process.
They should have demonstrated that the motions and clubs route was a waste of time at the outset of the dispute. even though it would have been a cosmetic exercise, it would have staved off the pedantics who cling to procedure to criticise.
The personal criticism of McCarthy in the press was wrong. the mitigation is that they wereusually responding to personalized criticism from him but they should have maintained the high ground. McCarthy's leaking of the team building document was ammunition enough to illustrate McCarthy's integrity.
They should keep Sean og and Donal og away from press and interviews as they only antagonise those looking to be antagonized - The young fellas should be doing the talikng to demonstrate their cohesion and if nothing else that they're every bit as committed as the rest.
They should be requesting a motion of no confidence in he county executive from the clubs, not in McCarthy. A new executive could simply dismiss McCarthy anyway. i suspect this has been avoided because of the O'Sullivan factor.

[Reillers]

I agree with most of what GAA says.

But I think that a lot of what has happened, not so much now because the players stop and think and take a breath, but especially at the start was a reflex action, like when Gerald was insulting them in the press and they didn't need to respond, Gerald I think by the press conference had made 30/40 plus statements while the players had only talked to the press about 8/9 times, but the quieter they stayed the worse McCarthy made them look, so a lot of what happened up until the press conference seemed to be a reaction to an action, how many times do you poke a dog with a stick until it bits back kinda thing.

I think it's all well and good in theory saying that the players should have done it this way and they should have went through this chanel. But at the end of the day you do what you know and you fight with what you have. The CB have their tools, all the players have in their arsenal is their refusal to play and even that this time didn't bother the CCB.
Like it's all well and good for the likes of OM and Indiana and Dowling to sit on their high horses and say that they should have gone through the clubs first and such, but the reality is there was no way in hell a any of the clubs would have came in behind the players, not because they didn't back them, but they had no reason to challenge the CB. Why provoke a slepping giant, which is ironically what the CCB did, but still. There isn't a chance in hell that this would have worked a couple of months ago.
And no matter how many people say that, cause hindsight is all good and well, but it would never in a million years have worked.

[Zulu]

239 clubs in Cork Zulu and you've put up the results of less than twenty, probably some of the most pro 2008 panel anyway and that's why their votes are in early, and we're all to believe what? That's it the war's over, the clubs have spoken? Let's wait until Sunday when the votes are in and the clubs who don't vote are counted.
Maybe even the clubs' meeting before that when there's no county board and no panel present might throw up something. Who knows?

Just like the figure of over 400 for the panel's meeting. Where did that come from? Who knows. If there were people there not representing clubs who were they and what were they doing there? Who knows. Seems a bit strange to me that specific persons were asked to attend a meeting with specific ID but there's a number that doesn't tally yet we don't know how that number came about.

Less than 20? I've put up more than 30 dowling and here's a few more - Ballymartle, St. Mary's, Passage, Fr. O'Neills, Lisgoold and St. Catherines all vote in favour of the motions. East Cork clubs like Youghal, city clubs like Nemo and west Cork clubs like Clon have all voted overwhelmingly in favour of the players and all you can say is that they all had their vote first because they are pro-player, give us a break.

Once again you've avoided answering the simple questions put to you and once again your post offers little clarity on your opinion. The only point you seem to be making is that it is too early to comment on how the clubs are going to vote which is fair enough but hardly an opinion on the issue at hand.

[Reillers]

Oh Dowling, the protesters were only mainly shoppers, there's always less then 600 at a League game, it's about the clubs they haven't spoken, oh wait no the clubs don't matter anymore it's about the rules, and every single club that's voted so far has voted in favour of the players, 20 clubs that's irrelevant, so is 30, 40..the every growing lists, well it's only a few..etc Right? All the excuses you and other pro CB posters and the CB and Gerald come up with it doesn't change the fact that what's happening is happening.
Here's one for ya Dowling, my club, a very pro CB man there, the earth is cracking from under his feet, all he could do was delay the EGM by a week so it's not done by the time the players meet, but the club members are now baying for blood.
Not a club, because of him, expected to back the players, but if the EGM gets the go ahead I'd be pretty confident that we'll back the players, that would not have happened if we were told to do it before all this happened.

[Reillers]

Cork players ready to hand clubs lead role in dispute

SEÁN MORAN GAA Correspondent

GAELIC GAMES NEWS ROUND-UP: THE CORK hurlers are ready to step aside in the current dispute with the county committee and hand the campaign over to the clubs. As the impasse over the reappointment of manager Gerald McCarthy for a second two-year term remains unresolved, matters have picked up momentum with club meetings declaring support for last year's senior panel, who have withdrawn from intercounty activity.

According to a players' source, the plan at this stage is to step back at this Sunday's meeting of the clubs in the Maryborough House Hotel, ask those present to elect a chair, who can conduct the business of how best to give voice to the feelings of representatives.

This meeting is a follow-up to a similar one the weekend before last when clubs were invited to the same venue to hear the players put their case and eventually two motions were proposed for discussion within the county's clubs.

During the past 12 days clubs have been discussing a motion of no confidence in McCarthy and a proposal that representatives at county committee be allowed discuss significant issues with their clubs before a vote is taken.

The clubs supporting the players' motions have been doing so by substantial majorities.

Yesterday the most recent votes emerged with Na Piarsaigh, club of two recent Cork captains John Gardiner and Seán Ó hAilpín, supporting the McCarthy motion by 128-8 and the consultation proposal by 130-1.

There were similarly overwhelming votes in Ballincollig and earlier in the week Nemo Rangers, the most successful football club in the country, voted no confidence in McCarthy by 185-1. Youghal, club of incoming GAA president Christy Cooney, also backed the players.

There is, however, an element of self-selection about these outcomes, as some clubs not in agreement with the players declined to attend the briefing last month or to hold special meetings.

Some clubs are split down the middle, such as Cloyne whose executive includes Dónal Óg Cusack one of the players' leaders as well as county chair Jerry O'Sullivan.

Tonight clubs in the county are due to accept an invitation from Clonakilty to discuss possible resolutions of the matter independent of county officials and players. A large turnout is expected.

Last night more clubs were making up their minds on the issue while at Croke Park the dispute was one of the items on the agenda for the GAA's management committee.

The meeting was believed to be considering the implications of the Cork dispute not being resolved and the impact of such issues as the county's footballers, due to withdraw their participation at the end of the league, effectively defaulting for the championship and the hurlers being relegated to the Tier Two Christy Ring Cup.

Also last night Tyrone footballer Ryan McMenamin appealed his eight-week suspension to the Central Appeals Committee. The result of that is expected by this afternoon, as is the fate of Kilkenny All Star Eddie Brennan, who was before the Central Hearings Committee in relation to an incident in last weekend's Waterford-Kilkenny Hurling League match, which saw him and opposing full back Declan Prendergast red-carded.

Meanwhile Tyrone manager Mickey Harte has made swingeing changes for tomorrow's floodlit Division One match with Galway at Healy Park. The All-Ireland champions show nine changes from the team that lost to Kerry last time out.

Two of these in the half-back line have been enforced with McMenamin ruled out by suspension and Philip Jordan unavailable. Into the defence come Conor Gormley, who made a big impact against Kerry, PJ Quinn and Cathal McCarron, while John Devine replaces Johnny Curran in goal. Colin Holmes will play at midfield and, in attack, Ryan Mellon, Martin Penrose and Raymond Mulgrew come into the starting 15.

Kildare have named an unchanged line-up for their crucial Division Two game against Wexford in Newbridge on Sunday. They have three points from two games following the defeat of neighbours Laois and draw with Munster champions Cork.

Shane McCormack retains his position in goal and Kevin O'Neill, who was imperious against Cork, is at full back.

Dermot Earley and Darryl Flynn are continuing to develop an increasingly impressive midfield partnership.

TYRONE (SF v Galway): J Devine; PJ Quinn, J McMahon, M Swift; D Harte, C Gormley, C McCarron; E McGinley, C Holmes; T McGuigan, C McCullagh, R Mellon; M Penrose, S Cavanagh, R Mulgrew.

KILDARE (SF v Wexford): S McCormack; D Brennan, K O'Neill, H McGrillen; B Flanagan, M Foley, M Conway; D Flynn, D Earley; E Callaghan, P O'Neill, J Kavanagh; K Donnelly, R Sweeney, J Doyle.

WEXFORD (SF v Kildare): A Masterson; D Walsh, P Wallace, B Malone; C Morris (capt), A Doyle, D Carter; B Doyle, D Fogarty; A Flynn, S Cullen, C Byrne; C Lyng, P Colfer, M Forde.

[dowling]

239 clubs in Cork Zulu and you've put up the results of less than twenty, probably some of the most pro 2008 panel anyway and that's why their votes are in early, and we're all to believe what? That's it the war's over, the clubs have spoken? Let's wait until Sunday when the votes are in and the clubs who don't vote are counted.
Maybe even the clubs' meeting before that when there's no county board and no panel present might throw up something. Who knows?

Just like the figure of over 400 for the panel's meeting. Where did that come from? Who knows. If there were people there not representing clubs who were they and what were they doing there? Who knows. Seems a bit strange to me that specific persons were asked to attend a meeting with specific ID but there's a number that doesn't tally yet we don't know how that number came about.

Less than 20? I've put up more than 30 dowling and here's a few more - Ballymartle, St. Mary's, Passage, Fr. O'Neills, Lisgoold and St. Catherines all vote in favour of the motions. East Cork clubs like Youghal, city clubs like Nemo and west Cork clubs like Clon have all voted overwhelmingly in favour of the players and all you can say is that they all had their vote first because they are pro-player, give us a break.

Once again you've avoided answering the simple questions put to you and once again your post offers little clarity on your opinion. The only point you seem to be making is that it is too early to comment on how the clubs are going to vote which is fair enough but hardly an opinion on the issue at hand.

Sorry Zulu I meant to write 30. But whether it's thirty or forty now I've no doubt that the final number will be substantial. But I've also asked about the number of clubs who didn't attend the meeting and asked how many clubs are expected not to vote and these questions have been largely brushed over. And I'm not trying to get into a tit for tat exercise, I'm trying to get you to understand that whatever amount of clubs vote for the panels proposals there will be a significant number who wont. In your pursuit of baying for blood you want to ignore that that's up to you. It's never to early to comment but it is too early to think this will be all over on Sunday. I'd be inclined to think there will still be another few turns and I think tomorrows meeting could prove to be more significant than Sunday's.
What makes commenting on the votes an issue is that panel supporters are hyping it up. But of course you're right in that what is more important is what's happening in general and where it's going.

I don't know why you keep insisting I'm avoiding questions. I put up my first post and another early one to show the consistency of my argument. If you can't understand it I don't really know why. I sometimes warn people about how they write as something not expressed properly can cause unintended offence. But when I've heard people complain about something that's been written I argue they're looking for something offensive which wasn't there. Maybe you need to read my posts in a different mindframe.

[The GAA]

What conclusions can we draw about clubs that don't take a vote?
Are they rightly ignoring an unmandated request or are they denying their membership a voice?

[Zulu]

dowling you accuse us of hyping up the results of the club egm's but I could as easily accuse you of refusing to acknowledge the clear trend that is developing. However I've no issue with waiting to see how all these votes pan out before declaring a winner. As for the clubs not holding a vote I know of only 3 that are doing this for definite so that is why it isn't a major issue or one that is worthy of much comment.

I've accused you of avoiding questions simply because you have, I've asked 3 questions that are easily answered and don't require much elaboration yet you've avoided answering them. Posting up an old post isn't answering the questions and I see little in that post that clarifies your postion. Can you not help me out here, on what grounds are you anti-player or at least why are you debating with pro-player posters, what are we saying that you disagree with?

[Reillers]

239 clubs in Cork Zulu and you've put up the results of less than twenty, probably some of the most pro 2008 panel anyway and that's why their votes are in early, and we're all to believe what? That's it the war's over, the clubs have spoken? Let's wait until Sunday when the votes are in and the clubs who don't vote are counted.
Maybe even the clubs' meeting before that when there's no county board and no panel present might throw up something. Who knows?

Just like the figure of over 400 for the panel's meeting. Where did that come from? Who knows. If there were people there not representing clubs who were they and what were they doing there? Who knows. Seems a bit strange to me that specific persons were asked to attend a meeting with specific ID but there's a number that doesn't tally yet we don't know how that number came about.

Less than 20? I've put up more than 30 dowling and here's a few more - Ballymartle, St. Mary's, Passage, Fr. O'Neills, Lisgoold and St. Catherines all vote in favour of the motions. East Cork clubs like Youghal, city clubs like Nemo and west Cork clubs like Clon have all voted overwhelmingly in favour of the players and all you can say is that they all had their vote first because they are pro-player, give us a break.

Once again you've avoided answering the simple questions put to you and once again your post offers little clarity on your opinion. The only point you seem to be making is that it is too early to comment on how the clubs are going to vote which is fair enough but hardly an opinion on the issue at hand.

Sorry Zulu I meant to write 30. But whether it's thirty or forty now I've no doubt that the final number will be substantial. But I've also asked about the number of clubs who didn't attend the meeting and asked how many clubs are expected not to vote and these questions have been largely brushed over. And I'm not trying to get into a tit for tat exercise, I'm trying to get you to understand that whatever amount of clubs vote for the panels proposals there will be a significant number who wont. In your pursuit of baying for blood you want to ignore that that's up to you. It's never to early to comment but it is too early to think this will be all over on Sunday. I'd be inclined to think there will still be another few turns and I think tomorrows meeting could prove to be more significant than Sunday's.
What makes commenting on the votes an issue is that panel supporters are hyping it up. But of course you're right in that what is more important is what's happening in general and where it's going.

I don't know why you keep insisting I'm avoiding questions. I put up my first post and another early one to show the consistency of my argument. If you can't understand it I don't really know why. I sometimes warn people about how they write as something not expressed properly can cause unintended offence. But when I've heard people complain about something that's been written I argue they're looking for something offensive which wasn't there. Maybe you need to read my posts in a different mindframe.

How many do you think aren't voting Dowling because so far I can count them all on one hand.
You can make excuses all day as long as you like and waste your time doing so.
The players have left this completley in the hands of the clubs, which can't be said for Gerald and the CB.

I swear Dowling by the talk of you most of the time it's like you don't want them to find a solution. Why wont you except that the clubs are rowing in behind the players.
If it's what the grassroots want it's what the grassroots want, if some choose not to vote, well that's their buisness and they forfit their view and opinion, if there's a majority in favour of the players then your answer is there, if not, then we'll have the answer anyway because the players will walk away.

You are looking for some tit for tat crap just so you wont admit your wrong, instead you're piping on about consistency of your arguement which I couldn't care less about. It's not about who was right a few weeks ago, it's about finding a solution now and the more you post the more it sounds like you'll do anything to degrade the backing of the players and the more you post the more it sounds like you don't want them to find a solution because God forbid at the end of it all the players might be shown as right and like I said you seem like you'll say anything rather then admit that.

You refuse to acknowledge the clubs decisions which is pretty much what the CB are doing.

[RedandGreenSniper]

On what do you believe the players were to blame GAA, out of curiousity?

Blame is not the word i'd use but there are definitely things i think they should have done differently. i think...
They should have nominated an alternative from the outset - not their preferred choice but someone, which would have demanded an interview process.
They should have demonstrated that the motions and clubs route was a waste of time at the outset of the dispute. even though it would have been a cosmetic exercise, it would have staved off the pedantics who cling to procedure to criticise.
The personal criticism of McCarthy in the press was wrong. the mitigation is that they wereusually responding to personalized criticism from him but they should have maintained the high ground. McCarthy's leaking of the team building document was ammunition enough to illustrate McCarthy's integrity.
They should keep Sean og and Donal og away from press and interviews as they only antagonise those looking to be antagonized - The young fellas should be doing the talikng to demonstrate their cohesion and if nothing else that they're every bit as committed as the rest.
They should be requesting a motion of no confidence in he county executive from the clubs, not in McCarthy. A new executive could simply dismiss McCarthy anyway. i suspect this has been avoided because of the O'Sullivan factor.

Fair enough. On the no confidence in the county board we can only speculate as to the rationale of the players for not doing this. Perhaps striking was the only option open to them. That reflects poorly on the clubs, very poorly. And the board of course. But I'm yet to be convinced whether the outcome which now appears likely will be a good thing or not for the GAA (the organisation, not the GAAboard poster ). I only hope that Cork GAA is an island in terms of being a complete mess because this sort of shite cannot become a regular occurence across the country. I think that's the big concern a lot of the posters on here have.

[The GAA]

I'd like to presume that in most counties clubs are dilligent and interested enough to monitor hold their executives to account on their decision making without requiring a boot in the arse to do so.

It's a dangerous assumption though

[RedandGreenSniper]

Yeah, I'm afraid a lot of clubs are too bogged down in their own business to keep a vigilent eye on the county board. Some boards don't need too much monitoring for they have capable and well meaning people involved but that's unlikely to be a universial case . . .

[Reillers]

Yeah, I'm afraid a lot of clubs are too bogged down in their own business to keep a vigilent eye on the county board. Some boards don't need too much monitoring for they have capable and well meaning people involved but that's unlikely to be a universial case . . .

Ya. I think Cork are unique in that sense.
But I think there's a lot of well meaning people involved, but most are too busy trying to get their best for the club, like you said, too bogged down in their own business.

[The GAA]

Absolutely - i don't believe anything other than that most county board officials are hard working and well meaning