McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[The GAA]

I'd have a number of issues, none of them serious, but would prefer not to discuss the here

[The GAA]

You're right to be confused Oman and this is part of the problem and what pro posters are missing. Last year's strike resolution benefited the players at the time in that what they went on strike to achieve they did, irrespective of the 'overall settlement'. This year the 2008 panel obviously thought it wouldn't be too much bother to repeat the feat and so it was we're not playing under Gerald. But the lie of the land has proved different this year and unlike Teddy Holland Gerald decided to have his say. Not only that a new panel was assembled. Whereas last year the players could say that there was nothing personal with Teddy they couldn't this time and when Gerald decided to have a say in all this the 2008 players' remarks had to become more personalised to defend their position. I don't doubt that some of the 2008 panel felt uncomfortable about this though not them all. And then once it wasn't easy to shift Gerald the focus went onto procedures, the county board and primarily onto Frank. Don't forget about the focus of this being for the good of Cork hurling and Cork GAA in particular. And not only has the point of 'attack' changed but so has the intensity. All this has been reflected on this board. Now like last year we're faced with a public demonstration which will no doubt be well attended simply because Cork is split down the middle on this. The difference with this demonstration is that there is an open bitterness because of the prolonged nature which wasn't there last year. Whatever resolution is found, if indeed one is, it's going to be hollow as there's going to be a bitter taste left at the end. Where the 2008 panel has taken this dispute is at loggerheads with their claim to be acting for the good of Cork GAA. Maybe if some of them had thought a bit more about where this could end up and not be influenced by higher profile players which of course some must have been then this situation might not have been allowed to get this far. Even if Gerald were to stand down now or be sacked his personal assasination following on from Teddy Holland's, two honourable men, will not bring a close to this. Only the players now pulling back can set the groundwork for closure.
If a knowledgeable Corkman said to me Gerald shouldn't be manager I don't see why I wouldn't accept that. But neither can I accept players becoming the authority on any issue in any county, that's the committee's job and if the membership think they're doing a bad job but can't make them accountable that's a reflection of a weak membership.
As for Frank Murphy here's a wee quote from Zulu, one of the pro side who didn't give me shit as a newbie.
"...what I'm trying to say is that although many in Cork want to see the back of Frank, he is also a very capable GAA politician and gives Cork great clout on a national level and despite his faults there probably isn't anyone in Cork who would be even close to being able to replace him as secretary at the moment."

And here's another one. Notice the bit at the bottom, your bit.

It's amazing what you find when you trawl.

If you're struggling for a label dowling then "anti GPA" fits you perfectly. your early posts were a litany of conspiracy theories and assumptions about the GPA involvement in this dispute until passedit pulled you on the ridiculousness of your dot joining

[dowling]

Attempting to re-write history are we dowling, first off that isn't your first post evidenced by this...

So I did try to keep my comments measured and diplomatic. And to be fair I've met with a fairly moderate response.

Secondly your original point if I remember correctly was that the GPA were pulling the strings in this debate, afterwards you agreed with Sligeach's post that democracy is always manipulated by those in power but that was just life. Two things that I strongly disagree with so it is maybe yourself who's having problems understanding what you actually think, but to clear things up you could tell us slow learners what exactly you're arguing?

But not to pander to them. That is what this group of players want. They know what "they" want and everybody better make sure they jump through hoops to deliver for them. Maybe administrators have had enough of that attitude. I know I would.

Skull what do the players want, a top class backroom team, someone other than a man they can't get on with as manger? All reasonable requests IMO, especially when it is the players who have to take to the field and perform.

And here's another one. Notice the bit at the bottom, your bit.

It's amazing what you find when you trawl.

And what is your point dowling, of course I can accept FM has done much for Cork GAA but that doesn't lessen his negative influence when dealing with these players and IMO it is best for all concerned if he goes now.

Zulu I think the emphasis you put on a certain aspect of my post and twist it is indicitive of pro-posters on here. Not only can you not see and understand what's in front of you, neither can you see what lies ahead.

In all this mess not only is Frank Murphy's 'authority' being challanged as far as the county board is concerned but indeed as he has made his position clear so is Jerry OSullivan's and all the others as well. So if the 2008 panel are to win, and there's still no guarantee of that, then there has to be a total clearout. And even if the Cork membership said Jerry could stay how could he? He's been totally undermined as chairman.

[dowling]

You're right to be confused Oman and this is part of the problem and what pro posters are missing. Last year's strike resolution benefited the players at the time in that what they went on strike to achieve they did, irrespective of the 'overall settlement'. This year the 2008 panel obviously thought it wouldn't be too much bother to repeat the feat and so it was we're not playing under Gerald. But the lie of the land has proved different this year and unlike Teddy Holland Gerald decided to have his say. Not only that a new panel was assembled. Whereas last year the players could say that there was nothing personal with Teddy they couldn't this time and when Gerald decided to have a say in all this the 2008 players' remarks had to become more personalised to defend their position. I don't doubt that some of the 2008 panel felt uncomfortable about this though not them all. And then once it wasn't easy to shift Gerald the focus went onto procedures, the county board and primarily onto Frank. Don't forget about the focus of this being for the good of Cork hurling and Cork GAA in particular. And not only has the point of 'attack' changed but so has the intensity. All this has been reflected on this board. Now like last year we're faced with a public demonstration which will no doubt be well attended simply because Cork is split down the middle on this. The difference with this demonstration is that there is an open bitterness because of the prolonged nature which wasn't there last year. Whatever resolution is found, if indeed one is, it's going to be hollow as there's going to be a bitter taste left at the end. Where the 2008 panel has taken this dispute is at loggerheads with their claim to be acting for the good of Cork GAA. Maybe if some of them had thought a bit more about where this could end up and not be influenced by higher profile players which of course some must have been then this situation might not have been allowed to get this far. Even if Gerald were to stand down now or be sacked his personal assasination following on from Teddy Holland's, two honourable men, will not bring a close to this. Only the players now pulling back can set the groundwork for closure.
If a knowledgeable Corkman said to me Gerald shouldn't be manager I don't see why I wouldn't accept that. But neither can I accept players becoming the authority on any issue in any county, that's the committee's job and if the membership think they're doing a bad job but can't make them accountable that's a reflection of a weak membership.
As for Frank Murphy here's a wee quote from Zulu, one of the pro side who didn't give me shit as a newbie.
"...what I'm trying to say is that although many in Cork want to see the back of Frank, he is also a very capable GAA politician and gives Cork great clout on a national level and despite his faults there probably isn't anyone in Cork who would be even close to being able to replace him as secretary at the moment."

And here's another one. Notice the bit at the bottom, your bit.

It's amazing what you find when you trawl.

If you're struggling for a label dowling then "anti GPA" fits you perfectly. your early posts were a litany of conspiracy theories and assumptions about the GPA involvement in this dispute until passedit pulled you on the ridiculousness of your dot joining

Conspiracies? I think if you wish to check back you'll find they were suspicions which were later proved correct.

I'd have a number of issues, none of them serious, but would prefer not to discuss the here

Good answer GAA. I'll have to remember that one and maybe even expand on it from time to time.

[The GAA]

No point doing your job for you.

You doing a thoroughly terrible job of articulating the anti player argument and doing very well at overlooking glaring avenues where you could rightly have criticised them.
Not much point me helping you out...

[The GAA]

Conspiracies? I think if you wish to check back you'll find they were suspicions which were later proved correct.

O right. what is the GPA's involvement then?

[heffo]

Conspiracies? I think if you wish to check back you'll find they were suspicions which were later proved correct.

O right. what is the GPA's involvement then?

Refusing membership to their elite organisation to a group of hurling players, yet Joe Soap Junior C hurler on the street can join in the morning co-inciding with membership of their executive being in dispute with the CCB

A high profile GPA member joining the 2008 strikers on stage in Cork (B Corcoran)

[bingobus]

I see this debate is still rumbling on. TBH at this stage its hard to see the wood from the trees.

A few serious questions to all sides and I'd like to see their take on it:

1) What do you see will be the long term effect of this dispute on the GAA on a national basis?

2) What will happen to Cork GAA at all levels in the coming year if a) Ger and/or FM remain in place
                                                                                          b) Ger only goes
                                                                                          c) Ger and FM go.

[GalwayBayBoy]

The longer this goes on the more people are understanding the players and supporting the players and not CCB, in my opinion.

I think people were always going to back the players because the players are the ones who are idolised and who can do no wrong in the eyes of the fans. Your average man on the street couldn't give a toss about the county board or if half the county board had to be sacked. As long as they get the players back on the field that will keep the vast majority of the fans happy. I don't think this shows a genuine understanding of the situation though. Just that when push comes to shove the supporters will always back the players.

[dowling]

Zulu seeing as I've been obliging answering your questions see if you can help me out with this one and do me a favour.

If 140 odd clubs were at the panel's meeting and each club were to be represented by the chair and another how were there over 400 delegates there? There might be something logical I'm missing so if you can help.

How many of the senior hurling clubs are expected to take a vote, I heard not many.

[The GAA]

Refusing membership to their elite organisation to a group of hurling players, yet Joe Soap Junior C hurler on the street can join in the morning co-inciding with membership of their executive being in dispute with the CCB

A high profile GPA member joining the 2008 strikers on stage in Cork (B Corcoran)

Who are this group of hurlers that have been refused membership of the Gpa?

Who are the junior c hurlers who are members?

Is Brian Corcoran, as a cork hurling supporter, not entitled to show his solidarity with one side of this dispute without it being scurrilously presented as a GPA intervention?

[heffo]

Refusing membership to their elite organisation to a group of hurling players, yet Joe Soap Junior C hurler on the street can join in the morning co-inciding with membership of their executive being in dispute with the CCB

A high profile GPA member joining the 2008 strikers on stage in Cork (B Corcoran)

Who are this group of hurlers that have been refused membership of the Gpa?

Who are the junior c hurlers who are members?

Is Brian Corcoran, as a cork hurling supporter, not entitled to show his solidarity with one side of this dispute without it being scurrilously presented as a GPA intervention?

Hurlers denied membership = Cork hurling panel 2009

Junior C hurlers who are members = any hurler in the country can join the GPA (except those who don't kow-tow to prominent GPA members wishes)

Anyone can show solidarity in any gathering as they see fit - just happens to be a co-incidence that this individual is a high profile member of the GPA..

[The GAA]

Hurlers denied membership = Cork hurling panel 2009

Junior C hurlers who are members = any hurler in the country can join the GPA (except those who don't kow-tow to prominent GPA members wishes)

Anyone can show solidarity in any gathering as they see fit - just happens to be a co-incidence that this individual is a high profile member of the GPA..

The 2009 were not and have not been denied membership to my knowledge

County hurlers can join the gpa - not sure too many of them should be classed as junior c (indiana will be on you shortly for using that description)

Surely heffo you can see that brian corcoran would be entitled to express his own support within a situation like this in his own county? to say its a signifcant he's a gpa member is silly

[dowling]

Hurlers denied membership = Cork hurling panel 2009

Junior C hurlers who are members = any hurler in the country can join the GPA (except those who don't kow-tow to prominent GPA members wishes)

Anyone can show solidarity in any gathering as they see fit - just happens to be a co-incidence that this individual is a high profile member of the GPA..

The 2009 were not and have not been denied membership to my knowledge

County hurlers can join the gpa - not sure too many of them should be classed as junior c (indiana will be on you shortly for using that description)

Surely heffo you can see that brian corcoran would be entitled to express his own support within a situation like this in his own county? to say its a signifcant he's a gpa member is silly

Think you need to check at least one of your answers GAA.

[The GAA]

Feel free topoint out which one