McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[amallon]

This story has the making of a great book in a few years time or maybe even a couple of books.  From an outsiders point of view I'm still undecided who if anyone is in the right in Cork.  There must be some agro in the club and pub of Cork over this.  I'm sure there are clubs who have players on the 08 and 09 squads, this can't be an easy situatation for the 09 player.  I see the captain of the 09 team asked his club mate who is on the 08 panel before going ahead and lining out, its strange that Murphy gave him his blessing.  

From reading the comments and stories in the papers the 08 panel are still training away.  Who is in charge of them?  Where are they training?  Some club somewhere must be risking a co. board backlash by providing the facilities to the 08 lads.  What is it going to be like when the club leagues start again in Crok, will it be open season on the 09 players?

[theskull1]

This story has the making of a great book in a few years time or maybe even a couple of books.  

Maybe thats the whole problem here. You need to string things out to make a story a book

[orangeman]

This story has the making of a great book in a few years time or maybe even a couple of books.  

Maybe thats the whole problem here. You need to string things out to make a story a book

FM has all the publishers in his back pocket so it will be a pro CB publication, that's for sure ! 

[amallon]

Fm's memoirs would be a great read. 

[ExiledGael]

Fm's memoirs would be a great read. 

Still his name is asscociated with an awful lot of what is wrong with the GAA and that's what I'll remember him for (obviously not having seen the other work he's done at local level over the years). The bottom line is he is in charge of GAA within the county, and it's descended into complete farce.
John McIntyre said after Sunday that he attended mass in Cork and as he came out locals were wishing him well and praying that him and Galway beat Cork out the gate - as he put it.
The true cost of this will never be known.
I can't fully understand how anyone in this crisis has backed themselves into such a corner but Ger McCarthy saying after another drubbing that "I've got the full support of the county board and that's all that matters" is just pathetic. The longer this runs the more painful the end, Jesus it's like watching Jade Goody in the papers every fecking day. Somebody must soon take a step back and think of the future here.

[orangeman]

Fm's memoirs would be a great read. 

Still his name is asscociated with an awful lot of what is wrong with the GAA and that's what I'll remember him for (obviously not having seen the other work he's done at local level over the years). The bottom line is he is in charge of GAA within the county, and it's descended into complete farce.
John McIntyre said after Sunday that he attended mass in Cork and as he came out locals were wishing him well and praying that him and Galway beat Cork out the gate - as he put it.
The true cost of this will never be known.
I can't fully understand how anyone in this crisis has backed themselves into such a corner but Ger McCarthy saying after another drubbing that "I've got the full support of the county board and that's all that matters" is just pathetic. The longer this runs the more painful the end, Jesus it's like watching Jade Goody in the papers every fecking day. Somebody must soon take a step back and think of the future here.

[/b]

You're right but the 2008 panel are going the whole hog here - they don't want compromise - Dessie Farrell said in a recent interview that this will end with victory for one side over anoher which won't solve anything.

It seems in the Croke Park deal that Mc Carthy was prepared to drop hs existing selectors and bring in new selectors and a new coach who would be acceptable to the 2008 panel. This was rejected.

To resove a situation like this, all sides must be preared to give ground. Unfortunately, the 2008 panel won't give an inch.

This sort of attitude will not resolve anything - it will take years and years for the wounds to heal. How anyone can claim that this is for the good of Cork hurling is beyond me.

[Reillers]

Re

So your club is anti 2008 panel Reillers. Why didn't you just say that instead of GAA wasting his time and energy? The tide hasn't turned where you are in spite of your 'call to arms'. Why should it have turned anywhere else so badly? And would you think Nemo is a GPA club, with the footballers and that?

This just highlights how polarised the argument is on both sides.

One unnamed club is assumed to be behind the CB therefore that is conculsive proof of their piety.

One named club is against the CB but that is proof of treachery & skulduggery.

Dowling that is not an argument.

As for Reillers, posting how well the 2008 lads are training is about as pertinent to the Championship as telling us how well Christy Ring is hurling in the great Croke Park in the sky.

My natural disposition towards meetings where every little thing that might threaten the chair gets ruled out of order means I don't believe the powers that be quite have the real power they think they have. You see any challenge to that power can be ruled out of order. But equally I think the ordinary Gaa punter has completely lost his/her patience with this squad of hurlers.

All revolutions start small and I don't think this should be allowed to continue much longer. Allowing a 2nd,3rd or 4th string does nothing for the Gaa at all. If the players strike/retire etc the rest of the Gaa should throw them out of all competitions until they resolve their differences.

I understand where you're coming from Muppet and maybe reillers delay in answering and GAA and Zulu projecting a different meaning clouded the question and eventual response. And I say response because it's not an answer. Frank Murphy controls the county and now also one person controls reiller's club. Could this also be Frank Murphy? Here's what reillers said and remember this on the back of continually telling us that the tide had turned in favour of the 2008 panel.

"I mean the opinions split, the SGM has been shot down because of a praticular member wont say who..not the nicest person you'll ever meet. If a certain someone has his way it'll probably go against the players because of his antics, motions thrown out because of being incorectly worded and crap like that. But that's as much to be said really for now. The SGM's been delayed all ready.
If it was called now of the genuine club members it'd probably get the backing for the players. But I don't know.
It's split because despite having a certain character at the club we also have two IC players as well."

There's no definte answer in that but I'm inclined to believe reillers is putting a spin on the situation and I'd be very surprised going by what he said previously so many pages back and how he's addressed this if the 2008 panel could expect support from his club. The only reasonable  conclusion to be made in any of this and to which you alluded is that the county is bitterly split and it's not 90 - 10 either way, it's split down the middle and to be honest there's no real way of knowing who has how much support. But what reillers, taking his lead from the 2008 panel has done is put a spin on the support issue. For instance according to him the panel's meeting with club chairmen couldn't have gone better. Yet what do we really know about the meeting? Very little. But we do know that a percentage there didn't support the panel and a large percentage of clubs weren't even represented.
And that's what's been going on all along. And if you're dealing in spin you're not dealing with the real issues. To try to confront everything reillers was saying I was questiong how he could claim such a big turnaround in support if his own club hadn't even come round to his way of thinking.

As for Nemo I'm just making a point that some clubs because of their nature will automatically be inclined to lean one way or the other and No doubt there will be clubs who will automatically lean against the 2008 panel. It happens in all counties.
And all these points show, not how polarised the arguments are on both sides, but how polarised both sides are in the argument.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, The only way I see this to be resolved satisfactorily for Cork is for the 2008 panel to pull back. That's not because I disagree with them and think they should climb down, I think it's the only way they could hope to get credit from those opposing them and thus limit the bitterness in all this. They can push on and they might win the battle but the war for all Cork has already been lost, it's just a question now of the extent of the casualties.
And I think the panel have inadvertently brought this situation about because they didn't think their strike would take long and have just now become entrenched.


"We never had the luxury of a blank sheet where we could plan a strategy or even close to it."  Donal og
[/quote]

Maybe he didn't get an answer because I haven't been on all day. Most clubs were represented Dowling.
You don't know anything about my club Dowling. One man who has a big say at CB level, one of FM's good friend. He tries to run things, at our club it wouldn't matter what 90% of what our club think, we've got two young but established IC players. But that one man, if he's got anything to do with it, will not back the players. Good that the ground seems to be breaking off under his feet.

There's no spin on anything.  

Spin is telling us that 12000 protesters were mostly shoppers
Or that there was more then 1000 at the game, but easily counted there was only 600.
600 apparently according to CB spin is an average attendance to a League game. I've never seen such a small crowd at a League game.
The PR machine experts.

There's no spin. A certain member of my club has his own agenda, there is a twisted logic to his thinking.
If he has his way, well lets just say doesn't have the highest opinion of the players.
He, like FM is living in the past.

That is why it's split to an extent. But it's one of about 4 clubs.

There's no spin.

It's not my club, it's one man with a lot of power, thankfully the ground is falling from underneath his feet.

Now who's putting spin on it, Nemo, one of the biggest, most respected clubs in the county vote for the players like a long list of clubs have and you dismiss it and put spin on it because there most be a reason other then that they all back the players, there most be some sort of reasoning behind that.

So the only way this will be solved is if the panel pull back. Why should they, why not the CB, who let the clubs have no say, who had 12000 on the street against them, that have over 400 people at the meeting against them, that are the main reason as to why SGMs are being held in nearly every club up and down the county.
A CB that does not represent the people.
Why should the players pull back on that. If they let the CB win the clubs will be silenced for years to come, because no one will stand up to the CB like the players have.

Your point there at the end, where you say that they didn't think this would take that long, could that be because it shouldn't have taken this long. Any other CB in the country would have had the thing resolved in weeks, not like any other CB in the country would let this, never mind be responsible for this, to happen.
But then Donal Og's quote, they didn't have time to think it through.

Oh and Dowling you proved just why I didn't want to tell you anything about my club because after what I said you some how managed to get out of it that they were anti player which is bullshit. You did it to completley undermine me and it's what you were looking for, you said it, despite what I said and don't give me I misunderstood you, you did it to undermine me and that's the last time I answer something like that to you if you keep on twisting what I say to suit you.

[ExiledGael]

I realise they've adopted a hardline attitude but the key issue here is McCarthy's management. Either he remains as manager or he doesn't, there's no in between, so I can understand that particular deal meaning very little to them. You can't compromise on that - he stays or he goes.
Everyone has lost here, players and management have lost crucial time and respect most of all.
The only good that can come is the insurance that this can never ever be allowed to happen again anywhere, that's essential for the GAA.
It will probably get worse before it gets better and it appears the tide has turned as the NHL games have gone ahead within the clubs in Cork.
I don't see any other endgame than McCarthy being outed, never did since the start to be honest, and it looks more likely than ever.
To me, more than any others the Cork County Board have brought shame on the association and they must pay a price. Nobodies actions since, and maybe before, have helped however, but that's Cork people for you.
Like the financial regulators of the country the county board have been complicit in all that has happened, and are ultimately responsible for the wellbeing of the GAA in Cork. They can't be allowed to remain unchanged no matter what happens with McCarthy.

[Reillers]

So your club is anti 2008 panel Reillers. Why didn't you just say that instead of GAA wasting his time and energy? The tide hasn't turned where you are in spite of your 'call to arms'. Why should it have turned anywhere else so badly? And would you think Nemo is a GPA club, with the footballers and that?

This just highlights how polarised the argument is on both sides.

One unnamed club is assumed to be behind the CB therefore that is conculsive proof of their piety.

One named club is against the CB but that is proof of treachery & skulduggery.

Dowling that is not an argument.

As for Reillers, posting how well the 2008 lads are training is about as pertinent to the Championship as telling us how well Christy Ring is hurling in the great Croke Park in the sky.

My natural disposition towards meetings where every little thing that might threaten the chair gets ruled out of order means I don't believe the powers that be quite have the real power they think they have. You see any challenge to that power can be ruled out of order. But equally I think the ordinary Gaa punter has completely lost his/her patience with this squad of hurlers.

All revolutions start small and I don't think this should be allowed to continue much longer. Allowing a 2nd,3rd or 4th string does nothing for the Gaa at all. If the players strike/retire etc the rest of the Gaa should throw them out of all competitions until they resolve their differences.

No, it's not clubs that are behind the CB. Some, God only why, would still back them, but you'll have a very hard time finding an ordinary GAA member in club in Cork who has anytime at all for the CCB. No matter what their stand is on the players.
The clubs have lost their patience with the CB and they are lucky because the players are organising them because they'd never do it themselves because in Cork club scene because of the way the cb function it's everyone looking out for themselves.

The clubs, irrespective of the players, have no voice and are sick of it. Sick and tired of sending their delegate to the meetings to vote on a subject only for them to come back after voting the opposite way to please old Frank.

That happens no matter what the players are doing. Hell most of the time the clubs get no say at all. Like on Croke Park. That was one of the most infuriating things that's happened with the CB.
A perfect opportunity for FM and his fossil friends who are living 20 years ago, to shine in their own beliefs.

The clubs have actually backed the players more now, which is why I think the CB were extremley stupid in what they did, clubs that mightn't have given as much if any support to the players over FM, are giving them their entire backing now because of the way the CB are acting.
The clubs are finally sick to the teeth of putting up with the CB, of having no say.

The players have been very open in all of this. They let all the media at the press conference and let them ask questions, it could have been anything, anyone asking anything could have been there but the players let them question them.
They then invited the clubs to meet up at that press conference, having absolutely no idea what or how they'd react, I for one was expecting it a bit more hostile. But the players got massive support. Again they let themselves open to the real GAA people, not the delegates in a room being stared down upon by FM, but a room with the players where they could ask any questions and say anything they liked.

The players have left themselves open and almost vulnerable to the media and the clubs, they'd no idea what was going to be asked or what the reaction would be. But they were honest and open. Something neither Gerald or the CB would ever dream of doing.

The club meeting gave the clubs an opportunity to vent, to share their views, no one was hastled, no one was given any grief when they had the floor if their opinion wasn't with the players, there was one comment all right that annoyed the players a bit when one of the chairmen suggested that the younger players go home to their parents and see what they say, Naughton found this a tad patronizing and said his family would kill him if he said he was going back to play for Gerald.

They've been open and honest to the media and the grassroots, it's a hell lot more then the CB or Gerald has or will do.

The players are refusing to play, I think the threat of throwing them out would actually get the CB moving because God forbid they'd loose money that way and that is after all, as if not more important then complete control of the clubs and IC hurling and football.

[muppet]

I blame Henry Martyn Robert.

[cicfada]

I see Clonakilty are inviting all club chairmen to Clon on Friday night for a meeting! This will be without the players present! I would imagine that the clubs are going to discuss a strategy in light of the board's intransgience!  It wouldn't surprise me if the clubs wanted to withdraw from the co championships now! It's the only realistic option left  to them, mind you, they would need all clubs to agree and that is not going to happen  in any vote ! The Macroom delegate despite being told that the club had voted  to a man against Nc Carthy was spotted on de paper clapping the team off on  Moday's edition!  Why have the junior clubs only woke up  now though?? The ludricous situation of the Muscrai  junior clubs delegate being from a senior club has gone on now for 12 years or so! Why the heck have they not done something about this before??  How did county ever become successful, I have to ask myself??

[Reillers]

I see Clonakilty are inviting all club chairmen to Clon on Friday night for a meeting! This will be without the players present! I would imagine that the clubs are going to discuss a strategy in light of the board's intransgience!  It wouldn't surprise me if the clubs wanted to withdraw from the co championships now! It's the only realistic option left  to them, mind you, they would need all clubs to agree and that is not going to happen  in any vote ! The Macroom delegate despite being told that the club had voted  to a man against Nc Carthy was spotted on de paper clapping the team off on  Moday's edition!  Why have the junior clubs only woke up  now though?? The ludricous situation of the Muscrai  junior clubs delegate being from a senior club has gone on now for 12 years or so! Why the heck have they not done something about this before??  How did county ever become successful, I have to ask myself??

Problem with the meeting on that night is because it's such short notice and a lot of clubs are holding SGMs then. The Junior clubs just do not have any say. They have a couple of delegates between them but to rub salt in that wound they haven't represented and didn't represnt them at the CB meetings. They have NO say at all and it's disgraceful treatment.
No one has done anything before because no one would do it a lone, only now people, clubs, are getting organised, and that has come through by the players.
The county became so successful because of bloody good players. Despite the CB in a lot of cases. Even Christy Ring thought so..

..Even the greatest of them all had a withering view of Rebel administrators. Val Dorgan's biography of Christy Ring includes the story of the maestro being stopped by a jobsworth on the turnstiles in Pairc Uí Chaoimh.

"Leave that man in," said a county board official who happened upon the scene, "That's Christy Ring, he won eight All-Irelands with Cork."

Ring's riposte was immortal: "And if I wasn't carrying fellas like you I'd have won another eight."

That was years before this CB, but it still applies now which is pathetic.

[Reillers]

This story has the making of a great book in a few years time or maybe even a couple of books.  From an outsiders point of view I'm still undecided who if anyone is in the right in Cork.  There must be some agro in the club and pub of Cork over this.  I'm sure there are clubs who have players on the 08 and 09 squads, this can't be an easy situatation for the 09 player.  I see the captain of the 09 team asked his club mate who is on the 08 panel before going ahead and lining out, its strange that Murphy gave him his blessing.  

From reading the comments and stories in the papers the 08 panel are still training away.  Who is in charge of them?  Where are they training?  Some club somewhere must be risking a co. board backlash by providing the facilities to the 08 lads.  What is it going to be like when the club leagues start again in Crok, will it be open season on the 09 players?

At this stage we could make a trillogy. There is agro in pubs and such, but it always comes back to the same thing, the CB, the blame 90% of the time lies at the CB. I think Dowling thinks I put spin on it but I don't think I could sum up in a paragraph or so just how much the CB are hated.
The panel are still training and started training before the 09 team.
Seanie McGrath and Gerry Wallis previous trainers of the players and previous backroom team member of Gerald's team. They are training in Na Piarsigh, Mallow, Moureabbey mainly.
09 players aren't really the target in all of this.
A lot are playing with the 08 players at college.

And you said there at the start, that ..

its strange that Murphy gave him his blessing.

It's not strange, not if you knew the lad, Kieran Fraggy Murphy, legend realy and truely. You genuinely couldn't meet a character like him, so genuine, such a gent.
Not surprising at all. He'll back you to the hill, he's just one of those lads.

[Onlooker]

Fraggy Murphy must be complimented on his attitude to the 2009 panel.  He is one of the few players from the 2008 panel who emerges from this affair with credit.  He is obviously a decent genuine lad.

[Reillers]

Fraggy Murphy must be complimented on his attitude to the 2009 panel.  He is one of the few players from the 2008 panel who emerges from this affair with credit.  He is obviously a decent genuine lad.

Listen, look at the CIT team, you'll see familiar players on the team, from both sides. Neither have a problem with eachother, they're good friends. I mean this in the most genuine way possible, they have no problem with the 09 players.