McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[sligeach]

I find this to be the most amazing view on this issue, which appears to be that democracy isn't really that and is a very flawed system but so what, that is the reality of democracy.

The reality of all implementations of democracy in this country, in every country, in every organisation sporting or not in the world is flawed and works this way.

Don't even try and say you don't already know that. Nothing happens without a "I'll scratch your back" situation occurring in democracy.

You can find examples of this in every democratic organisation in the world, in the modern age and as far back as there was anything resembling democracy.

Politics today for one example practically runs on what you described. How do you think people get funds for election campaigns ?

And of course I have a huge problem with it, I have a huge problem with capitalism too but at the moment they are the best political and economical systems we have got.

We are an amateur organisation and for a paid official to use a slightly late document as leverage to get a vote a certain way is a disgrace and a gross misuse of power.

He owed Frank, simple as. The same shite happens everyday everywhere. Hell, just last week I called in a favour from a lad I used to work with.

Now maybe that is the way of life but it is a disgraceful abuse of power and renders all arguments that any vote taken by any CB is infact democratic and if it isn't truely democratic then none of us need take any notice of decisions made via that process.

You'd prefer what exactly ? A benevolent dictator or perhaps you'd like to give good old facism a go ?

Sligeach you obviously don't care what Frank does, as long as he is not imprisoning club members and raising whole villages he ain't all that bad, that's your view and your entitled to it but I want a better GAA than that and this strike might help achiebve it.

If Franks evil and dictatorial then we are living in a tyrannical dictatorship.

[orangeman]

As I said earlier, this kind of thing has been happening in every sports since sport was invented. Sport, politics, cliques, underhand deals, behind backs deals are part of life.

I referred to some of the biggest decisions on the GAA's history being effected / influenced by favours and/ or promises made - it's the way of the world - happens in Cork and every other county. Happens in club committes right up to Croke Park level.

I know you say you would like a GAA without this practice, but I'm sorry it is and will be a feature of GAA "democracy" as long as there is a GAA.

so you have no problem with the players not playing to influence a few democratic decisions?

Players should play - administrators should administrate. If they want to effect change, then join rhe committee of thier club, CB and they can effect change from within.

Throwing the toys out of the pram if, in thieir minds, they don't get a first class train carriage, first class mayonnaise on their sandwiches or a first class class coach isn't in the realms of democracy that we're talking about here.

[orangeman]

Very good anglocelt ! 


Bloody hell it's got to the stage where I'm agreeing with/enjoying the postings of my mushroom picking neighbours. Congrats on the 13 provincial titles. My conclusion from our friend Reillers at this stage is that, clearly, the FM guy was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, the outbreak of Aids in the Africcan subcontinent, the Tsumani in South East Asia some years ago.

[The GAA]

The reality of all implementations of democracy in this country, in every country, in every organisation sporting or not in the world is flawed and works this way.

Don't even try and say you don't already know that. Nothing happens without a "I'll scratch your back" situation occurring in democracy.

You can find examples of this in every democratic organisation in the world, in the modern age and as far back as there was anything resembling democracy.

Politics today for one example practically runs on what you described. How do you think people get funds for election campaigns ?

And of course I have a huge problem with it, I have a huge problem with capitalism too but at the moment they are the best political and economical systems we have got.

He owed Frank, simple as. The same shite happens everyday everywhere. Hell, just last week I called in a favour from a lad I used to work with.

You'd prefer what exactly ? A benevolent dictator or perhaps you'd like to give good old facism a go ?

If Franks evil and dictatorial then we are living in a tyrannical dictatorship.

I cannot see how you can accept the flawed version of democracy that has been the norm for 30 years in cork as "reality" on the one hand and condemn how the hurlers have gone about achieveing their objectives on the other.

If you feel we have to accept this form of corruption, even if we don't like it, if we want anything to get done then surely these lads standing up for their principles without breaking any rulesof the association is worthy of support?

I have no problem with a lad returning a favour for you but did you blackmail him? were the consequences of him not stepping up for you to be 100 times worse than original favour you did him?

The justification of what i deem at best blackmail and at worst corruption while condemning the hurlers for not playing on a point of several principles baffles me.

[dowling]

See we're in for another protest in support of the 2008 panel at a football match. Páirc Uí Chaoimh Sunday week.
Could we see pro panel and anti strikers clashing? Obviously this is another addition to what's going on from the panel's side but is it wise? Or are the organisers of this protest adopting a couldn't care less mentality about any possible cosequences?

[orangeman]

See we're in for another protest in support of the 2008 panel at a football match. Páirc Uí Chaoimh Sunday week.
Could we see pro panel and anti strikers clashing? Obviously this is another addition to what's going on from the panel's side but is it wise? Or are the organisers of this protest adopting a couldn't care less mentality about any possible cosequences?

Drive her into the ground and to hell with the consequences - as one pro player poster on here has already said, it has to get really, really bad before it starts to get better. Just like it had to take 3500 people dead etc etc in order to being peace to the North ( or so they told us ).

[Zulu]

He owed Frank, simple as. The same shite happens everyday everywhere. Hell, just last week I called in a favour from a lad I used to work with.

He didn't owe Frank, he was an amateur volunteer giving up his free time to do a job for his club and he was slightly late with registering one team and Frank then used this to try and force the club to vote his way on some issue. Comparing the GAA to world democracies is nonsense but as GAA says to accept corruption of democracy in the GAA and oppose players trying to go above that corruption is a baffling point of view.

You'd prefer what exactly ? A benevolent dictator or perhaps you'd like to give good old facism a go ?

How about a GAA where paid employees do their job without fear or favour?

If Franks evil and dictatorial then we are living in a tyrannical dictatorship

I don't think anyone but yourself said he is evil, but if he is using leverage to force clubs to vote as he wants him then he is certainly tyrannical.

The laughable thing is pro-CB posters (which you aren't one Sligeach) are flip flopping now on why they oppose the players, they spent the first 150 odd pages going on about the democratic process and clubs having their say and now they are agreeing with your analysis that the demoxcratic process is actually flawed, which pro-player posters argued since the start, but that it doesn't matter because that is they way of the world!!

Of course it matters, at least inpolitics if a politician was found out not to be representing the views of his constituents they'd have the opportunity to turf him out every four years, they don't get that with Frank.

Drive her into the ground and to hell with the consequences - as one pro player poster on here has already said, it has to get really, really bad before it starts to get better. Just like it had to take 3500 people dead etc etc in order to being peace to the North ( or so they told us ).

What's with all the IRA/troubles analogies?

[orangeman]

Drive her into the ground and to hell with the consequences - as one pro player poster on here has already said, it has to get really, really bad before it starts to get better. Just like it had to take 3500 people dead etc etc in order to being peace to the North ( or so they told us ).

What's with all the IRA/troubles analogies?


We were told that Northern Ireland needed to reach the point of anarchy in order to get a united Ireland.

What was on offer in 1974 is more or less what we have now.


It didn't need to be driven into the ground to arrive at the same point.

Likewise Cork GAA doesn't need to be driven into the ground by the 2008 panel in order to get a resolution.

[The GAA]

Drive her into the ground and to hell with the consequences - as one pro player poster on here has already said, it has to get really, really bad before it starts to get better. Just like it had to take 3500 people dead etc etc in order to being peace to the North ( or so they told us ).

What's with all the IRA/troubles analogies?


We were told that Northern Ireland needed to reach the point of anarchy in order to get a united Ireland.

What was on offer in 1974 is more or less what we have now.


It didn't need to be driven into the ground to arrive at the same point.

Likewise Cork GAA doesn't need to be driven into the ground by the 2008 panel in order to get a resolution.

Who told you that? You'd want to be some tube to have believed that

[orangeman]

Drive her into the ground and to hell with the consequences - as one pro player poster on here has already said, it has to get really, really bad before it starts to get better. Just like it had to take 3500 people dead etc etc in order to being peace to the North ( or so they told us ).

What's with all the IRA/troubles analogies?


We were told that Northern Ireland needed to reach the point of anarchy in order to get a united Ireland.

What was on offer in 1974 is more or less what we have now.


It didn't need to be driven into the ground to arrive at the same point.

Likewise Cork GAA doesn't need to be driven into the ground by the 2008 panel in order to get a resolution.

Who told you that? You'd want to be some tube to have believed that

Sadly most did believe. Same in this situation where you're trying to tell us that it needs to get far worse befire it gets better.

[Zulu]

At least your consistent in so much as your analysis of the complexities of the troubles is as simplistic as your analysis of the Cork situation.

[orangeman]

At least your consistent in so much as your analysis of the complexities of the troubles is as simplistic as your analysis of the Cork situation.

And in terms of both, there will be a lot of regrets, pain, sadness and the protagonists will be left thinking, what the hell was that all about anyway, what a waste of time and effort ! How foolish we were to get involved.

[The GAA]

Not one person i know were ever told nor believed that.
I am and always was in the "sunningdale for slow learners" camp but alas the democratic majority were never good enough for the Shinners until it suited them.

Why doesit have to get worse in cork before it gets better?

[orangeman]

Not one person i know were ever told nor believed that.
I am and always was in the "sunningdale for beginners camp" but alas the democratic majority were never good enough for the Shinners until it suited them.

Why doesit have to get worse in cork before it gets better?

Was it not you that said that Apologies if it wasn't but this was how it was put across by a pro player poster. Let me have a look back here  to see if I can find it.

[Zulu]

Compromise is always the better option but sometimes there is no common ground on which to base a compromise. Anyway the troubles and the Cork situation are clearly different in a multitude of ways so to compare them repeatedly is nonsense. The players can't play for Gerald, they don't rate him, had a poor relationship with him prior to this and it has worsend considerably since then so any solution invoving Gerald staying as manager will not work. Anyone who doesn't accept that has never played sport and at this stage the worst solution for Cork would be a compromise that involves Gerald and the 08 panel going forward together.