McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[The GAA]

You're confusing yourself. are you now saying noone made a response to your satisfaction? you didn't like the response?
what is it that noone explained to you?

No. I appreciate your response for its honesty but noone has made an argument for defending their view that it isn't a veto, you said it was so therefore we have no argument on this subject.

So you are not saying the players are wrong to take a stance - thats progress at least. you are saying that you disagree with their methods?

Yes. And I'd even go one step further and say I don't disagree with their methods at this moment in time, regarding the way they are gathering support from the clubs. I in fact agree that Ger had his time and someone else should have been given the reigns.

I don't agree that;

- Ger is a particularly bad manager, I believe hes not the best man for the job in Cork at this stage yes, but calling him a bad manager etc is just wrong and making the players and their supporters look bad.
- The players should be 'on strike' or 'not playing' whatever way you wish to phrase it. It they truely loved Cork hurling and truely wanted to make things better for Cork hurling people they would still be playing but fighting tooth and nail for the clubs support to oust Ger. I would have no problem in the world with that. In fact I would support them in it and I believe its healthy for the GAA to have such movements.

In my opinion, the way the players are acting are remoniscent of schoolboy antics. Standing by your principles is all well and good but stand by them, through thick and thin and don't make excuses for them.

I take you missed the "cloyne motion" which is now being resubmitted?
The players can win this and they will. Brennan and cooney are already drawing up draught procedures for county boards to ensure they do things properly and avoid constituant parts of a county membership having to take severe action to ensure proper procedure.

No I didn't. Its just 5 months too late and it came about the wrong way and if the players win this (which in itself I don't mind) and get some kind of player veto on future managerial appointments then it will be a dark day for the GAA as a whole.

The Mulvey agreement was thrown out the window by the county executive so all avenues were open.
who are lying dishonest cheats and why?

The CCB agreed to have two players representatives on the selection committee, the other members have a majority and elected Ger. Nothing in the Mulvey agreement was broken.

You can argue the spirit of the agreement was broken but thats intangible. It all depends on a persons opinion.

And yes I would agree the CB made the wrong choice and even agree they may have done it for simple revenge but Donal Og is just as guilty as they are. 

I must not have been clear in my last post... i support democratic processes but there is no democratic process in cork. well there hasn't been but there's about to be one.

Again, it all depends. To some people Zimbabwe is a democratic country when in fact its a dictatorship. North Korea has a parliment with elected politicians but its no more democratic then Nazi Germany was. \
Irelands a democracy on paper with a handful of gangsters in charge. etc

The CCB is democratic and the clubs if they had got off their asses could have changed things, which is what the players are doing right now so in actual fact Cork GAA is and was democratic, its just the voters weren't arsed practicing it.

You can't say they were democratic just because people were too lazy to vote for what they wanted.

i don't know why i have to keep repeating things for you, but one last time... i have no problem with the this cork team having a veto on this manager.

And what about a veto in the future on future managers ?

I'll give you a single issue.

Secretary of the Cork County Board of the GAA
1973-present

That's a Dictatorship.

Nope it ain't.

A dictatorship means power is with him and only him. Its not and never was.

we are not that far apart so sligeach.
However, a fundamental difference we have is the understanding of just how much authority FM has. I'm not from cork but have friends and relations there and spend a lot of time there.

Is not possible to get across how murphy goes about his business with one or two tales - its how he entwines and weaves his authority over everything through the smallest of details. for example, a few years ago a friend of mine was registrar for the club. part of his brief was organising everything to do with membersip and submitting applications for club teams to play in various leagues and championships. he missed the deadline for a senior team for the league and championship by a day (stupid fecker) and landed down to frank with all the documentation and the club cheque, cap in hand. "no bother" says frank, "sure tis only a guideline to get everyone's registration in a sort of on time".
our boy goes away happy enough wondering why he was worrying and having avoided the wrath of the club. 2 weeks later he gets a phone call from the club's county board delegate to query if he'd submitted said applications on time. no exactly but frank said there was no problem. frank had called the delegate that afternoon to count on his vote on 3 motions to be submitted for a vote that evening. 2 in particular there wasn't a chance the club would support. "ah well" says frank. ""tis a pity for your senior team the registrar didn't submit your application for the league and championship. i thought he had but i can't find it anywhere. maybe you can check with him and come back t me."

now that is one instance with one club and technically frank did nothing wrong. but i wonder how many arms he twisted that day to get his 3 motions forced through and how many favours he can maipulate any given week?

[slow corner back]

All that tells us GAA is that Frank Murphy is a very smart man who knows the rules of the GAA inside and out and is very good at internal politicing. That is nothing but good for Cork GAA, a quick look at the suspensions for Cork players over the last ten years would tell a tale.

[The GAA]

Thats certainly on conclusion to draw

[passedit]

All that tells us GAA is that Frank Murphy is a very smart man who knows the rules of the GAA inside and out and is very good at internal politicing. That is nothing but good for Cork GAA, a quick look at the suspensions for Cork players over the last ten years would tell a tale.

fixed that for ye.

Tells me he's had 36 years to politic, cajole, twist arms, know where the bodies are buried, do favours, hold grudges and generally consolidate his power. This is the exact scenario Term Limits were meant to prevent.

[sligeach]

now that is one instance with one club and technically frank did nothing wrong. but i wonder how many arms he twisted that day to get his 3 motions forced through and how many favours he can maipulate any given week?

I'm sorry but I've read it twice and I can't see what I'm supposed to be reading as 'evil' or 'dictatorial' in that ?

What you have just stated is exactly what I would have expected from anyone in such a position.

I mean, you do know that the lads in Leinster house, the house of commons, the American senate etc all do this ? Its not the exception, its the norm for democracy.

[orangeman]

I seem to recall the Croke Park coffers getting a lot of € from Fianna Fail a while ago for some "favours". No one complained about that. It happens in all walks of life.

[The GAA]

now that is one instance with one club and technically frank did nothing wrong. but i wonder how many arms he twisted that day to get his 3 motions forced through and how many favours he can maipulate any given week?

I'm sorry but I've read it twice and I can't see what I'm supposed to be reading as 'evil' or 'dictatorial' in that ?

What you have just stated is exactly what I would have expected from anyone in such a position.

I mean, you do know that the lads in Leinster house, the house of commons, the American senate etc all do this ? Its not the exception, its the norm for democracy.

You don't see a problem with a paid GAA official blackmailing a club into supporting motions to the county board meeting?

i suppose that's where we differ

[orangeman]

All down the years, there have been "incentives" provided to vote one way or another in significant or even insignifcant votes in all sports. Being on the panel for the Olympic games used to be great crack.

In GAA, significant votes were won / lost as a result of promises made, favours done, incentives given.

Some of the biggest decisions taken at Congress over the past 10 / 15 years would and could not have been made without votes being acquired. It's a culture in all democracies.

[sligeach]

You don't see a problem with a paid GAA official blackmailing a club into supporting motions to the county board meeting?

i suppose that's where we differ

I see a huge problem with it but my political views are not on debate here and neither are the finer points of democracy.

I don't like it but it IS democracy, it IS the way it works and it IS the way it has always worked.

You can claim democracy is flawed and you'd be right but you can't claim such an incident is not democratic because it happens every day in every democratic situation in every democratic country in the world.

[The GAA]

No problem with the payers using their volunteerism as leverage to get a couple of votes their own way then?

[sligeach]

No problem with the payers using their volunteerism as leverage to get a couple of votes their own way then?

Well since you didn't clearly read what I said about Frank, I'll have to explain it again.

I DO have a problem with the way democracy works including Franks way in the CCB, but I'm not going to argue about it here because its not an issue of democracy in the Cork GAA, its an issue for democracy as a whole.

So yes I do have a problem with the players using leverage to get votes, but I also have a problem with Frank doing the same and I have a problem with democracy as a whole in this regard.

[The GAA]

That question was for Dougal

[The GAA]

I DO have a problem with the way democracy works including Franks way in the CCB, but I'm not going to argue about it here because its not an issue of democracy in the Cork GAA, its an issue for democracy as a whole.

If i experienced a county board official manipulating votes like that then i'd go to the papers to see him exposed

[orangeman]

No problem with the payers using their volunteerism as leverage to get a couple of votes their own way then?

Sorry Sean - who are the payers ? The govt / sponsors or who ?

[The GAA]

Are you saying you don't understand the question?