McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[tyronefan]

Reillers why do you keep blaming frank murphy for all the problems,  I have not seen anything said by the players that they want Frank Murphy removed before they play again,  surely if he is the problem you would think that the players would want him removed before anything else happens

[dowling]

So let me get this right GAA and Zulu.
Are you both saying that Frank isn't and never was a problem?

It beggr belief that you could post the above if you've been following this thread and only minutes after i had posed this:

Of course they would have played if they had a decent manager who'd give them they best possible chance of competing apponted. thee's no disputing that.

However, that is a symptom of the greater ill. If they had gotten on with it in that scenario then cork GAA would be no closer to addressing the fundamental sickness in its structures.

the fact that frank has once again created turmoil with his pettiness and unwillingness to put the county first has meant that at least one strand of the membership were forced to shout stop. That being the case, should those most directly effected simply resolve their own issue and allow the recurring problem to remain to perpetuate and probably compound the problem in the near future?

If they simply return with the removal of McCarthy then the accusation will be that they are only in it to solve their own issue and did nothing to help the clubs in cork when they had the chance.

Ironically, people opposing them on this thread claim that seeking to address the bigger problem is evidence that they are only interested in themselves

Well that nearly cleared that up. But what I'm trying to find out from the likes of yourself is when did concern for the whole county by the 2008 panel enter this dispute because if you look at it the following way it might never have entered at all.


In a parallel universe the Cork board were getting down to the business of selecting a hurling manager for the new season ahead, using the due process set out in the Mulvey agreement the year before.
Frank Murphy spoke. "Lads Gerald McCarthy has confirmed his interest in once again taking the job on and I would be in favour of that. Any other opinions?"
One of the 'players' reps', "well to be honest the players believe Gerald Mac has given his best shot and we'd all like to thank him for all he's done but we feel he falls short of what we need and we couldn't go along with that."
"Right so", says the county chairman, "anyone want to take issue with that?"
Responses of, "no, that's grand" from around the table.
Further discussion takes place and a name is agreed on by all, after highlighting what various 'candidates' may offer. The expectation is there will be no need to look further and it's only a matter of rubber-stamping when the man is spoken to.
A polite letter is to be forwarded to Gerald McCarthy.
Without any real bother the meeting comes to a close.
One of the players' reps approaches Frank after the meeting to get his expert opinion on the new yellow card rule and then the conversation widens, as it usually does,  to other GAA matters. After a while as they prepare to leave the players' rep bends down to pick up Frank's briefcase for which he's thanked. And Frank makes a joke about how heavier his briefcase is these days compared to thirty years ago when he took his first minutes and the two of them laugh. As they leave the room Frank asks, "what was that matter about the county ye wanted to talk to me about?"
"Ach sure I can't mind now Frank, mustn't have been anything important. We sorted out the important stuff tonight and that's what counts."
They walk out to the car park together  still joking and talking GAA matters and finally bid each other oiche mhaith and safe home.

[zoyler]

Sean Og has made it clear that the County Board are the target and that they (the players) want to wrest control of the County Teams from them.   How could any County Board worth their salt allow this to happen.  They are the ones with the responsibility under the GAAs rules to administer and finance county team matters so they have neither the power or the authority to give the 2008 panel the power and control they seek.  The 2008 panel will continue to insist that they seek neither but Sean Ogs words can have no other meaning - they seek their own way but want the responsibility (financial etc) to remain with the CB.

Is the Cork County Board not democraticly constituted like every other board in the country - is it not made up of delegates duly nominated and elected under its constitution and bye laws - just what exactly gives the players the right to think that they are a step above any other GAA member in Cork and subvert the rules and regulations to their own advantage?

[dowling]

Rule 59. 

Dangerous route to go down for the county board. the only logical end to that road is a vote of no confidence in the county board.

Imagine a county board applying the rules of the county?
Whose rules do you want them to apply GAA?

[dowling]

See Dessie's statement has a somewhat stronger tone than anything before. Is this an indication that the GPA are ready to become 'more' involved to attempt to add further pressure?
Surely with neither panel GPA members the GPA should remain neutral until the dispute is resolved.

[orangeman]

Irish News 25.2.09

Farrell thinks Rebels will be back in action


GPA Chief Dessie Farrell has predicted that the striking hurlers of Cork will be back on the field this season but that there would be more twists and turns in the saga. Farrell however, suggested the outcome would not be a compromise but one of winners and losers."I'd imagine it's a situation where one side will be victors. We've been very supportive of the stance taken by the panel and we're anxious to see it resolved."

[dowling]

Well here's the big question, if the 2008 panel don't get the club support or the clubs can't challange the appointment through board meetings what's the next step for the panel? Wait on the footballers to see how much more disruption can be caused? Call in the GPA with all guns blazing? Ask for other counties to lend support? What will happen.
To be honest I think Dessie is itching to get in there more and is only being restrained so as not to muddy the waters that this is a GPA issue. His statement goes that wee bit further and it wouldn't be co-incidental it comes on the back of perceived strong support for the 2008 panel from clubs.

[bingobus]

Dowling sumed it up for me. The players claim that the CB was waiting in the grass for revenge for 2002 but to me the players have been very much waiting in the grass for the CB as well. The reappointment of Ger McCarthy was the excuse they needed. One day they won't play for Ger McCarthy but will play for a CB board who it would appear is the big problem and the big target for them.

This, to me, doesn't make sense. They seem to be luring in the smaller clubs to do their dirty work for them ie bring down the CB.

Where will this stop? Will the junior clubs end up going on strike? Have the players a master plan or have they stumbled their way to this point.

Also, FM is pillored at this stage. His crimes seem to be that he voted his own way at Congress a few years back and then reappointed Ger McCarthy. Sean Og said himself that as a secretary he is top class but continues to see his abuses his power.

Can anyone provide a list of these "crimes"? Seriously, list half a dozen specific incidents?

Has he been using Cork stationery for his own use, letting his mates in for free or awarding his own club a bye to the county final every year? Lets hear it.

[orangeman]

When Sean Og said that " this thing was planned all winter" I seriously thought he forgot himself and was going to admit that the strike had been planned all winter. But he corrected himself and blamed the county board.

[The GAA]

We can get back to discussing the issues when you kids go to school

[orangeman]

We can get back to discussing the issues when you kids go to school

It's break time !

[Zulu]

So let me get this right GAA and Zulu.
Are you both saying that Frank isn't and never was a problem?

It beggr belief that you could post the above if you've been following this thread and only minutes after i had posed this:

Of course they would have played if they had a decent manager who'd give them they best possible chance of competing apponted. thee's no disputing that.

However, that is a symptom of the greater ill. If they had gotten on with it in that scenario then cork GAA would be no closer to addressing the fundamental sickness in its structures.

the fact that frank has once again created turmoil with his pettiness and unwillingness to put the county first has meant that at least one strand of the membership were forced to shout stop. That being the case, should those most directly effected simply resolve their own issue and allow the recurring problem to remain to perpetuate and probably compound the problem in the near future?

If they simply return with the removal of McCarthy then the accusation will be that they are only in it to solve their own issue and did nothing to help the clubs in cork when they had the chance.

Ironically, people opposing them on this thread claim that seeking to address the bigger problem is evidence that they are only interested in themselves

Well that nearly cleared that up. But what I'm trying to find out from the likes of yourself is when did concern for the whole county by the 2008 panel enter this dispute because if you look at it the following way it might never have entered at all.


In a parallel universe the Cork board were getting down to the business of selecting a hurling manager for the new season ahead, using the due process set out in the Mulvey agreement the year before.
Frank Murphy spoke. "Lads Gerald McCarthy has confirmed his interest in once again taking the job on and I would be in favour of that. Any other opinions?"
One of the 'players' reps', "well to be honest the players believe Gerald Mac has given his best shot and we'd all like to thank him for all he's done but we feel he falls short of what we need and we couldn't go along with that."
"Right so", says the county chairman, "anyone want to take issue with that?"
Responses of, "no, that's grand" from around the table.
Further discussion takes place and a name is agreed on by all, after highlighting what various 'candidates' may offer. The expectation is there will be no need to look further and it's only a matter of rubber-stamping when the man is spoken to.
A polite letter is to be forwarded to Gerald McCarthy.
Without any real bother the meeting comes to a close.
One of the players' reps approaches Frank after the meeting to get his expert opinion on the new yellow card rule and then the conversation widens, as it usually does,  to other GAA matters. After a while as they prepare to leave the players' rep bends down to pick up Frank's briefcase for which he's thanked. And Frank makes a joke about how heavier his briefcase is these days compared to thirty years ago when he took his first minutes and the two of them laugh. As they leave the room Frank asks, "what was that matter about the county ye wanted to talk to me about?"
"Ach sure I can't mind now Frank, mustn't have been anything important. We sorted out the important stuff tonight and that's what counts."
They walk out to the car park together  still joking and talking GAA matters and finally bid each other oiche mhaith and safe home.

Lads, its been pointed out already that the players can't play for Gerald but the can play with the current Cb in charge, I don't think that is a difficult concept to understand. They don't have to deal on a day to say basis with the CB on hurling matters, such as style of play, tactics, preparation etc., they mightn't deal with a CB man from one end of the year to the other but they'd have to deal with Gerald almost every week. So if Gerald goes they can play, even if Frank stays, that isn't to say the CB aren't a problem but that is an issue for the clubs. The players have clearly highlighted the fact that Cork GAA isn't working properly and this ghas energised the clubs to take a more proactive role in what is going on a CB level. By taking the action they've taken the players have shone a light on Cork GAA at CB level an to a degree on the whole GAA and for that we should be thankful.

To be quite frank I'd love to see clubs and county teams in a number of county's that I'm familiar with go on strike because many CB's are closed shops that are often doing the GAA more harm than good.  Some of you have suggested that the processes of the GAA have served us well over the past 125 years, I'd argue we have flourished in spite of them rather than because of them. Yes of course there are good people involved in administration and it is a thankless task, one which I hope to take up in the not too distant future, but when administrators act as they have done in Cork they no longer hold any rights to demand the rest of us adhere  to the rules, the rules are there to ensure fair play not to be manipulated by a paid employee of the GAA.

[sligeach]

Good man Silgeach keep reading that dictionary of yours if it gives you comfort,

And still not one of the pro-players can make a half decent response to this bare faced lie by Donal Og.

but this is a multi layered long running dispute and the CCB have clearly abused their power.

If it was a single layered dispute involving a dog and a couple of chickens it would make absolutely no difference to the meaning of the word Veto.

Donal Og has made it important enough of an issue to deny it is a veto, I am showing that it absolutely clearly is a veto. So unless you have something at least half intelligible to say on the subject stop posting rubbish about those who have.

The players want a veto on McCarthy, FACT.
Do they always want this power ? Do they always want a veto on the incoming manager ? That is the important question that Donal Og does NOT want asked.

In any genuine process, the people involved take into consideration the others view, and any reasonable person wouldn't impose upon the players the one man they said they couldn't work with.

In any process, genuine or not, the people involved can take into consideration the others view or they can not and it still makes no difference to the meaning of what the players are asking for which is a veto against Gerald McCarthy.

so how any GAA man can support them is beyond me.

For many reason. Lets name two.

- The players went for blackmail first and foremost. They didn't even attempt to use the democratic process of the clubs.
- The players are not trying to use the democratic process AFTER the vote was called by the County Board. Now I have no problem with them doing this but I can't help but wonder if they waited until after the first vote on purpose.

And lastly. I firmly believe in the democratic process of the GAA, I also firmly believe that players should not be allowed to have any input into their own management besides having opinions. The managers word is law.

[GalwayBayBoy]

It seems clear that the players want to wrest control of the running of the county team away from the county board and basically put themselves in charge for the forseeable future. Pick their own managers, selectors, etc. If successful you could see a case in a couple of years when some of the older players have retired of them playing pass the parcel with the management of the senior hurling team. Treating it as their own personal fiefdom much like Frank Murphy has with Cork GAA. Maybe they have more in common with Frank than they'd like to admit.

[sligeach]

It seems clear that the players want to wrest control of the running of the county team away from the county board and basically put themselves in charge for the forseeable future. Pick their own managers, selectors, etc. If successful you could see a case in a couple of years when some of the older players have retired of them playing pass the parcel with the management of the senior hurling team. Treating it as their own personal fiefdom much like Frank Murphy has with Cork GAA. Maybe they have more in common with Frank than they'd like to admit.

+1