McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[INDIANA]

Honestly not sure though at a guess i'd say there's no way they'd play with McCarthy still in situ. Might be a stretch for those boys but i'd consider it a reasonable compromise if someone else was brought in alongside Gerald with autonomy over training and an equal say in selection.

Rumour doing the rounds is that Brennan is trying to work a situation like the above with a guarantee that Croke park will permenantly remove frank by the end of the year

He wants christy cooney to take him with him when he becomes president. On the substantive issue , had Gerald resigned 4months ago the Cork hurlers would have played with FM still in charge. That has been established. I don't think they would now after all that has been said. Thats why I've never taken their claims seriously, the goalposts have been moved around and around until the last few weeks when its really been established what they are looking for.

[sligeach]

Show me the post that I didn't asnwer and I'll answer it.

Why ? You didn't answer this one either.

I state what the players want, what they have said from the beginning they wanted, it is the definition of a veto, Donal Og says they don't want a veto and that makes it true ?

Just because he says its not a veto does not mean its true. I have asked you to tell me how in Gods name its not a veto when its obvious to anyone with knowledge of the English language it is the exact definition of a veto.

You've been on here for ages now and the topic has gone on for ages, and you still think it's about wanting to call the shots and pick the manager.

Thats your answer ? Thats a response ?

I still think its about wanting to call the shots because the ONLY evidence presented against that is Donal Og's word. He says they told the CCB they won't play under Ger, then say they don't want to call the shots.

Spoilt primma donnas, do actually realise what's going on. Do you ignore everything that goes on on purpose or just to be incredibly annoying.

아마도

The Cork hurlers, if they were spoilt primma donnas..I don't see anyone having a fit that he called them primma donnas..they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

Its exactly what they would be doing.

They are trying to overturn the Cork GAA,

Player power

they are trying to organise the Cork clubs and it's extraordinary that it's taken the players do to it. It should never have been down to them to do it.

Oh right yeah, you mean they are doing what EVERYONE ELSE knew was the right way to go about changing things now after 5 months of acting like spoilt children ?

The situation would never happen in KK. They all work together, their cb doesn't go out of it's way to get rid of it's best players.

And the Kilkenny players have a lot more respect for themselves and their county then the Cork ones.

[The GAA]

With respect Indiana, whatever way the players turn now you'll disagree. I've never known a man to change his reasons for opposing something as often as you.

Set out your position and wait for reasons to substantiate it...

[whiskeysteve]

Frank Murphy reads the GAAboard.

[tyronefan]

Honestly not sure though at a guess i'd say there's no way they'd play with McCarthy still in situ. Might be a stretch for those boys but i'd consider it a reasonable compromise if someone else was brought in alongside Gerald with autonomy over training and an equal say in selection.

Rumour doing the rounds is that Brennan is trying to work a situation like the above with a guarantee that Croke park will permenantly remove frank by the end of the year

He wants christy cooney to take him with him when he becomes president. On the substantive issue , had Gerald resigned 4months ago the Cork hurlers would have played with FM still in charge. That has been established. I don't think they would now after all that has been said. Thats why I've never taken their claims seriously, the goalposts have been moved around and around until the last few weeks when its really been established what they are looking for.

In fairness to Indiana i think he has a very valid point there

[The GAA]

Of course they would have played if they had a decent manager who'd give them they best possible chance of competing apponted. thee's no disputing that.

However, that is a symptom of the greater ill. If they had gotten on with it in that scenario then cork GAA would be no closer to addressing the fundamental sickness in its structures.

the fact that frank has once again created turmoil with his pettiness and unwillingness to put the county first has meant that at least one strand of the membership were forced to shout stop. That being the case, should those most directly effected simply resolve their own issue and allow the recurring problem to remain to perpetuate and probably compound the problem in the near future?

If they simply return with the removal of McCarthy then the accusation will be that they are only in it to solve their own issue and did nothing to help the clubs in cork when they had the chance.

Ironically, people opposing them on this thread claim that seeking to address the bigger problem is evidence that they are only interested in themselves

[Zulu]

While everyone agrees that FM & co. are the main problem, the players can play and compete with those guys in charge because they don't have to deal with them day in day out. However they can't compete with Gerald in charge because that relationship is broken beyond repair and they would have to deal with him day in day out.

Sligeach, the players don't have or want a veto, they simply don't want and can't work with a manager they've had for two seasons already. Nobody has been able to justify Geralds reappointment so clearly the 5 CB men only reappointed him to antagonize the players, the players saw this and rightly walked away. I've made this point before but if it came to light that Donal Og was purposefully letting in goals to scupper Corks chances of success, he'd be be hung out to dry and the condemnation on GAA discussion boards like this would dwarf this thread, yet the CB reappoint the worst manager in Ireland, for this Cork squad, and it's alright by some on here. It's certainly nothing compared to players not playing, right?

[dowling]

Of course they would have played if they had a decent manager who'd give them they best possible chance of competing apponted. thee's no disputing that.

However, that is a symptom of the greater ill. If they had gotten on with it in that scenario then cork GAA would be no closer to addressing the fundamental sickness in its structures.

the fact that frank has once again created turmoil with his pettiness and unwillingness to put the county first has meant that at least one strand of the membership were forced to shout stop. That being the case, should those most directly effected simply resolve their own issue and allow the recurring problem to remain to perpetuate and probably compound the problem in the near future?

If they simply return with the removal of McCarthy then the accusation will be that they are only in it to solve their own issue and did nothing to help the clubs in cork when they had the chance.

Ironically, people opposing them on this thread claim that seeking to address the bigger problem is evidence that they are only interested in themselves

Have to take issue there GAA. If the 2008 panel were attempting to address the "bigger problem" then why wait until they were affected by a single issue before doing so? It's somewhat generous to be making out that the 2008 panel are custodians of the county. If the panel had got 'their man' in the manager's job at the start the only time we would be hearing about Frank Murphy this year would be when someone got a red card. With the 'right' manager in place we wouldn't be having 'problems'.

[INDIANA]

Of course they would have played if they had a decent manager who'd give them they best possible chance of competing apponted. thee's no disputing that.

However, that is a symptom of the greater ill. If they had gotten on with it in that scenario then cork GAA would be no closer to addressing the fundamental sickness in its structures.

the fact that frank has once again created turmoil with his pettiness and unwillingness to put the county first has meant that at least one strand of the membership were forced to shout stop. That being the case, should those most directly effected simply resolve their own issue and allow the recurring problem to remain to perpetuate and probably compound the problem in the near future?

If they simply return with the removal of McCarthy then the accusation will be that they are only in it to solve their own issue and did nothing to help the clubs in cork when they had the chance.

Ironically, people opposing them on this thread claim that seeking to address the bigger problem is evidence that they are only interested in themselves

Doesn't change the fact that what initially was about Mc Carthy has now spiralled into something completely different. If thats not changing the goalposts I don't know what is. Its turned into a crusade at this stage. All we're missing is Richard the Lion Heart .

[Zulu]

I don't think it has changed, the players, indeed everyone knew FM was the problem but Frank kept restarting the war using first TH and now Gerald as his front line troops. Hopefully Frank will be the big casualty in all of this but Gerald will have to go too, at the end of the day I can't understand why either Gerald or the CB did what they did if they've Cork GAA's interests at heart. Whether the players care about Cork GAA or just themselves is open to debate but the fact is Cork GAA benefits from winning Cork teams so the players winning this fight is what the GAA needs.

[The GAA]

As yu will be aware Indiana the initial row was about the process of reappointing McCarthy. that puts the conty board in the dock and cites the results of their actions as unacceptable. obviously McCarthy is and was unacceptable to them but this only became an issuewhen he was appointed anyway. this is not a difficult sum.

Certainly, if the proper procedures had been followed then the engagement with FM would have been avoided for another while but this was coming whether it was this year or next. it was only a matter of time before the footballers, hurlers, clubs or indeed other county board members shouted stop. there will always be a straw that breaks someone's back and it happened to be the hurlers this time round.

Is FM throwing out just enough treats every so often to hold everyone at bay a satisfactory way to run a county?

[orangeman]

Fair enough lads - both sides have taken every opportunity presented to them to score points over one another and have succeeded in tearing strips off each other publicly. All sides are gulity - all sides are not without blame. There's nobody innocent in all of this.
All sides cannot say that they acted out of the best interests of the GAA or of Cork.

Can we agree on this ?


The whole thing started out simply with the players looking Mc Carthy out.

The CB reappointed him and the whole episode has went downhill rapidly as past 5 months. Give it another 5 months and there'll be nothing left to save.


So we have to try and redeem the situation.


Gerald will have to bring in a trainer, as GAA suggests and others to try and get over this year. FM will be going to HQ along with Cooney. This might get us over the present difficulties.

[Zulu]

IMO Gerald will have to go, there has been too much said and done for Gerald and the players to ever work harmoniously again. At this stage I don't know why he'd want them back anyway, if I were him I'd either plow on with the current squad or stand aside.

[sligeach]

Sligeach, the players don't have or want a veto, they simply don't want and can't work with a manager they've had for two seasons already.

Regardless of the CCB selecting Ger McCarthy, John Allen or Paudi O'Se to manage, when the players say they won't play for this manager, that is a veto.

It doesn't matter who the manager is, the circumstances have absolutely no bearing on the definition of the word 'veto'.

Not one of the pro-players have answered this. The word 'veto' has a meaning, it has a definition and what the players are doing fits into that definition perfectly.

It doesn't matter what circumstances are involved, a veto is a veto plain and simple. The house of Lords in the UK used to be able to 'veto' laws passed by the house of commons, it made absolutely no difference what those laws were or who pushed them through. Simply stopping them is a veto.

Reardless of arguing the right or wrong of this situation, this is a fact. The players want a veto, thats what they are fighting for and they have consistently lied about that.

Simply saying they won't have X as a manager is a veto. The circumstances have absolutely no bearing on it whatsoever.

Nearly 300 pages and the pro-players are still arguing this complete rubbish. A veto is a veto, its not a particularly difficult word to understand and its meaning is very simple.

Nobody has been able to justify Geralds reappointment

Where is there a rule that says anyone needs to justify his appointment ?

so clearly the 5 CB men only reappointed him to antagonize the players, the players saw this and rightly walked away.

Yes, like the undemocratic pre-madonna's they are. They walked away, cried like spoilt children and only now, 5 months later, after trying to blackmail the county board, they are now finally only getting around to doing things the proper, democratic way.

Is it so difficult to understand ?

I don't disagree with the players trying to get rid of Gerald, I in fact would agree that it is time for a change. What disgusts me is the WAY they have been acting and trying to do it and what is going to be the fallout of this affair.

If you really want to see Cork hurling go into a slump like never before then let these players have power and see what happens.

[The GAA]

I he no problem in saying this is a veto of McCarthy as manager. That doesn't mean they want a veto generally.

saying the following:

Nobody has been able to justify Geralds reappointment

Where is there a rule that says anyone needs to justify his appointment ?

Means that you have no interest in addressing the biggest problem with this issue and the reason why there is a litany of disputes in recent times in cork.

This is bigger than a team not wanting a particular manager