McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

Closing in on end game



Tuesday February 24 2009

They prepared for hostility but instead they were met with a disarming standing ovation as 28 of the striking Cork hurlers, joined for the occasion by two footballers with their own finger on the red button, entered a function room in the Maryborough Hotel on Sunday night to face a potentially tough inquisition.

But from the moment the majority of the club delegates rose to their feet to applaud the players, the defensive shields -- erected in a series of 'dry runs' over the weekend -- could be decommissioned.

This was a hugely significant turning point for the striking hurlers who are shaking the very foundations of the GAA with their quest for change; more significant than even the sight of some 10,000 people taking to the streets of Cork city centre two weeks earlier to show their support.

bona fide

In some quarters there may be some cherry-picking of the make up of the audience gathered before the players on Sunday night. Were they all club chairmen and bona fide club representatives? Were there more than two from certain clubs?

Does a standing ovation mean that the clubs they left behind to travel that night are as supportive? But, given the voices that spoke from the floor, no one can escape the reality that it now looks as if the majority of clubs, a disparate entity it seems from the delegates who represent them in Pairc Ui Chaoimh, are behind the 2008 hurlers.

Not every club threw out the red carpet. A delegate from Sarsfields, the club which provides the spine of the current team and one of the selectors, suggested younger players should seek the counsel of their parents to know if their stance was the right one. His voice was drowned in a chorus of disapproval behind him for such a suggestion.

How that support can be harnessed in real terms, however, remains the great conundrum. Cork's unique GAA structures doesn't lend itself easily to the voice of the majority.

A roll call at the end of a two-and-a-half hour meeting revealed that 144 clubs had met the request of the players to show up. In some cases the same delegate represented twin football and hurling clubs. The structures of Cork GAA is unique in that the vast majority of clubs are represented by a small number of delegates at County Board level.

There are 260 affiliated clubs -- hurling and football -- in the county who all get individual representation at convention just once a year. Otherwise some 160 junior clubs are represented monthly at Board meetings by 16 delegates (one hurling, one football) from eight divisions -- Avondhu, Beara, Carbery, Carrigdhoun, Duhallow, Imokilly, Muskerry and Seandun spreading across every part of such a vast county.

By contrast, every senior and intermediate hurling and football club (18 senior and 32 intermediate in both codes) have individual voting rights at Cork County Board meetings. And that's where the real power of the Board lies.

Efforts to hold a special convention are quite likely to fail in a haze of rule book mechanics. A majority from the floor at a Board meeting could call a special convention, but then it is not the business of a convention to decide on team managements. That is the decision of a Board.

Cork County Board chairman Jerry O'Sullivan admitted a special convention could be called but pointed out this anomaly that a convention could not decide on the appointment or removal of a team manager.

O'Sullivan also re-iterated the stance that no more votes on Gerald McCarthy would be entertained.

"I can't say anything about the meeting on Sunday night. I only heard second hand what went on. But the situation remains that no more votes will be taken on Gerald's position. As regards calls for a special convention, it's unprecedented for that to happen and, anyway, conventions don't make decisions on team managements."

The players clearly feel emboldened by the turn out on Sunday night, allied to the march on the streets and, in many respects, the document that went before them on Thursday night last, that sought and got clearance for a major overhaul in how the Board did its business at many levels.

In accepting the terms of the document the Board may have been accepting its slice of the 'pain'. But the fact that the two Croke Park officials, among them one of their own, had to put this before them stood as an indictment of their ways. It now seems there is a growing will in Cork for change but the way to effect it is not yet clear.

"If the situation arises where the clubs are saying one thing and the board (another) ... that's more of a problem really with the structures in Cork. If that situation was to arise it would obviously be a damning indictment of the whole organisation," reckoned Donal Og Cusack after Sunday night's meeting. "The Croke Park example (when a vote was averted on the opening of the stadium) was raised by some people in the room.

"From our point of view we have been in survival mode since the fifth meeting. There was not a wide range of options open to us and we were very anxious that it would be the clubs that would have their say rather than a number of individuals, whether our careers were over or not," he added.

They'll know soon enough. The end game is in sight. But what voices will be heard?

- COLM KEYS

[orangeman]

Brennan vows to get tough in Cork dispute




Tuesday February 24 2009

CROKE Park officials look set to try to intercede again in the long-running Cork dispute, despite the failure of their major intervention late last week.

A clearly frustrated Nickey Brennan admitted yesterday that the row has become a public relations nightmare for the whole association.

"The GAA in Cork at the moment is in turmoil and it is not helping us at a time when we're clamouring for the hearts and minds of so many people to keep playing our games," Brennan stated.

And he made it obvious that the GAA will get tough on any future disruption by Cork of national competitions and is preparing to pre-empt that possibility.

Returning from a busy long weekend of official engagements that had taken him from Ulster to Cardiff, it was clear that the GAA president is not content to leave things at the current impasse.

Brennan met GAA Director General Paraic Duffy yesterday for a briefing on what happened last Thursday when Duffy and president-elect Christy Cooney proposed a solution to both sides, which was rejected. "The matter is urgent, it is very serious, it is casting the GAA in a desperately poor light in Cork at the moment and there is no point in me dressing it up in any other language," Brennan said.

He indicated that the GAA is already considering the long-term effect of the latest Rebel row on national competitions and will not be handling them with kid gloves.

Solved

"In the event of this matter not being solved, I have to consider issues from the wider GAA," he said.

"There was criticism of what happened in the League last year (when Cork missed the early rounds of both the NFL and NHL) and I want to make sure that people are very aware of the implications if this was to take the course it appears to be taking.

"If Cork are relegated in the hurling (national league) and don't play football (in the Munster SF championship) we need to think about the implications of that. There's not much point in leaving things until these things happen.

"In the light of Sunday night's development (when the players got mass support from the clubs), the matter remains extremely serious, the impasse appears to be as strong as ever and finding a solution seems to be as far away as ever.

"The GAA did intervene earlier. Don't for one minute think that last week's session was the first time that Croke Park were involved. Just because things weren't public didn't meant we weren't working behind the scenes."

He stood over the GAA's introduction of a third-party mediator last year because "we came up with a solution that got everyone back playing again.

"As the national body, we stood back for a certain period of time this year. We had to give them space. We now have engaged, we haven't been successful, and we have to consider now what, if anything, we can do."

Brennan refused to apportion blame to Cork County Board or any individuals, saying: "The structure (county board) is working fine in other counties. Clearly there are issues in Cork which I'm not going to go into today.

"I have very clear views on it and, at some stage, I will let people know those views. But, right now, I must be careful what I say. If you're trying to solve a problem you must keep aloof because I like to think we still remain honest brokers in trying to get to the bottom of the problem."

- Cliona Foley

[INDIANA]

Its not a fair analogy, most of them are senior club champions, hardly junior c. As i said earlier you'd hardly consider Barry Johnson a junior C hurler. BY the looks of it he's well capable of being a first choice player for Cork. Not sure Cork have a better corner back than Conor O Sullivan. Lovely tidy hurler. I couldn't give a continental about Cork to be honest, I'm more concerned about the ramificiations of this  around the rest of the association and the culture it is going to create. In my view it isn't a healthy one.
Cork seem to have no comphrehension of the effect they have had on the rest of the association. Wexford last year got relegated because of Cork. Not that Reillers and Co will acknowledge that. Next year when the 08 squad are back they'll beat everyone by 30 points in div2. Totally distort the division and as a result somebody else won't get exposure to div1 hurling.
.

[Reillers]

And there you go ignore, concentrating on me and not the points. Running out of material are we?
How about you answer the posts before you turn into OM.

Funny, you never found the need to answer mine, why should he answer you ?

You want a summary ?

1. The players are asking for powers of Veto.

Donal Og has consistently bare faced lied to the media on this point. Unless Donal Og is after releasing his own version of the Oxford dictionary then yes, this is the exact definition of what a veto is. i.e > The players wanted to veto McCarthy.

You see when someone lets say X (Players) say they don't want something Y (McCarthy as manager) and they believe they should have that power theres actually a word for that. Some people a long tiome ago put the letters v, e, t and o togeather and made a nice shiny new word.

So far reillers your 'proof' of this not been a veto is to say "Thats not what they want", thats funny because thats EXACTLY what they are asking for and if they got their veto 5 months ago we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

2. Player power.

No manager in their right mind would go near the Cork job except for managers who don't particularly want to manage anyways, they just want to "discuss" managing with Donal Og and the boys and sit back.

New Cork manager -> "Is it alright if I substitute you Donal ? .... no ? Ok sher maybe next time"

Cork needs to get its house in order and stop putting up with a corrupt county board on one hand and spoilt pre-madonna's on the other.

If this situation happened in Kilkenny this is what would happen.

1. Players say they won't play under Brian Cody, demand player power in the selection process.
2. Brian waves as the players leave, never to be let near a Kilkenny jersey again.

oh yeah and ..

3. Kilkenny win 5 in a row with the new players.

Show me the post that I didn't asnwer and I'll answer it.
You've been on here for ages now and the topic has gone on for ages, and you still think it's about wanting to call the shots and pick the manager.
Spoilt primma donnas, do actually realise what's going on. Do you ignore everything that goes on on purpose or just to be incredibly annoying.
The Cork hurlers, if they were spoilt primma donnas..I don't see anyone having a fit that he called them primma donnas..they wouldn't be doing what they are doing. They are trying to overturn the Cork GAA, they are trying to organise the Cork clubs and it's extraordinary that it's taken the players do to it. It should never have been down to them to do it.

The situation would never happen in KK. They all work together, their cb doesn't go out of it's way to get rid of it's best players.

[Reillers]

Its not a fair analogy, most of them are senior club champions, hardly junior c. As i said earlier you'd hardly consider Barry Johnson a junior C hurler. BY the looks of it he's well capable of being a first choice player for Cork. Not sure Cork have a better corner back than Conor O Sullivan. Lovely tidy hurler. I couldn't give a continental about Cork to be honest, I'm more concerned about the ramificiations of this  around the rest of the association and the culture it is going to create. In my view it isn't a healthy one.
Cork seem to have no comphrehension of the effect they have had on the rest of the association. Wexford last year got relegated because of Cork. Not that Reillers and Co will acknowledge that. Next year when the 08 squad are back they'll beat everyone by 30 points in div2. Totally distort the division and as a result somebody else won't get exposure to div1 hurling.
.

He wasn't talking about the 09 players. How hard is that to understand.
He was talking about at a club and in a club the fourth string down is Junior C is it not? 
And with the exception of about 3 or 4 none of these players are no where near the level needed.
If you couldn't care less why come on here to whinge and bitch about Cork every second. If you don't care then don't comment.
We wont acknowledge the fact that Wexford got relegated because of Cork, since when can you read minds.
And if the association functioned properlly then we wouldn't have this problem.

[orangeman]

Efforts to hold a special convention are quite likely to fail in a haze of rule book mechanics. A majority from the floor at a Board meeting could call a special convention, but then it is not the business of a convention to decide on team managements. That is the decision of a Board.

Cork County Board chairman Jerry O'Sullivan admitted a special convention could be called but pointed out this anomaly that a convention could not decide on the appointment or removal of a team manager.

O'Sullivan also re-iterated the stance that no more votes on Gerald McCarthy would be entertained.

"I can't say anything about the meeting on Sunday night. I only heard second hand what went on. But the situation remains that no more votes will be taken on Gerald's position. As regards calls for a special convention, it's unprecedented for that to happen and, anyway, conventions don't make decisions on team managements."

[bottlethrower7]

Haven't really grasped the concept of OPINION pieces have we lads.

that completely misses the point. In fact it backs up what I, for one, am saying. One's right to their opinion is a given. No question. As one who writes an opinion column Humphries should know that better than anyone. Anyone who wants their opinion respected should know to respect those held by others, however conflicting they may be. You don't need to agree with it, you just need to respect it, especially in cases where one has genuine and justified reason for theirs. Humphries has resorted to shoving his opinions down peoples' throats. You're with him or your scum pretty much. This was particularly prevalent back during the rule 42 debate where he referred to people with an opposing opinion to his own as being essentially backwoods, and being destructive to the organisation. Of course Tom never even mentioned his own conflict of interest.

He has lost all credibility in my opinion. I get sent his articles from time to time but I would never willingly read anything he writes anymore. And as someone who is as involved at club level (if not moreso) than Tom, as someone who has a similar interest in juvenile games (both in camogie and in hurling), and as someone who closely follows the fortune of the Dublin hurlers, that should not be the case. He is not willing to allow me to have an opinion. Thus, I shall disregard his with the same contempt he shows me.

[The GAA]

how can they go after FM now  when they said all along that the problem was Ger

[The GAA]

Definitely don't like the analogy humphreys makes as those lads are doing the best. there's no doubt the vast majority are not county standard by cork terms but he probably should have put it a bit better. that said, in an avalance of personal abuse of cork hurlers its ironic that the moral custindians of this thread wait til now to defend leap into action.

fire away with your indignation there lads.

[INDIANA]

Its not a fair analogy, most of them are senior club champions, hardly junior c. As i said earlier you'd hardly consider Barry Johnson a junior C hurler. BY the looks of it he's well capable of being a first choice player for Cork. Not sure Cork have a better corner back than Conor O Sullivan. Lovely tidy hurler. I couldn't give a continental about Cork to be honest, I'm more concerned about the ramificiations of this  around the rest of the association and the culture it is going to create. In my view it isn't a healthy one.
Cork seem to have no comphrehension of the effect they have had on the rest of the association. Wexford last year got relegated because of Cork. Not that Reillers and Co will acknowledge that. Next year when the 08 squad are back they'll beat everyone by 30 points in div2. Totally distort the division and as a result somebody else won't get exposure to div1 hurling.
.

He wasn't talking about the 09 players. How hard is that to understand.
He was talking about at a club and in a club the fourth string down is Junior C is it not? 
And with the exception of about 3 or 4 none of these players are no where near the level needed.
If you couldn't care less why come on here to whinge and bitch about Cork every second. If you don't care then don't comment.
We wont acknowledge the fact that Wexford got relegated because of Cork, since when can you read minds.
And if the association functioned properlly then we wouldn't have this problem.

Here we go . the association functions fine in 31 counties except for you bunch of anti-christs down there. Whether its Stephen Ireland, Roy Keane, the Cork Hurlers, Frank Murphy the cork county board, Ronan O Gara, all from Cork and cause nothing but aggro. Wexford did get relegated because of Cork last year, because you should have had to fofeit the points against them because you didn't fufill the fixture and they weren't the only ones who had to reschedule matches.
The inference was there Reillers and it was unecessary. He's perfectly entitled to his views on the subject without insulting people. The reason I object to it is because the 09 players have kept their mouths shut and haven't insulted anybody in the debate. Yet he chose to bring them into the debate. Uncalled for. He's entitlled to his views on other active members of the dispute but he should have left them out of it.

[The GAA]

Its a tiny point of correction but in my view wexford were relegated because they were awful last year.

[tyronefan]

how can they go after FM now  when they said all along that the problem was Ger

It's always, ALWAYS been about the CB. From the very start, the reasons why the players took this action is because of the way in which the COUNTY BOARD reappointed FM.

then how come they will go back and play if ger goes. Should they not want FM to go as well before they play

[The GAA]

I haven't seen them say that will but if they did then it'd surely come down to a short term compromise

[EddieMerx]

Whether its Stephen Ireland, Roy Keane, the Cork Hurlers, Frank Murphy the cork county board, Ronan O Gara, all from Cork and cause nothing but aggro.

You forgot Eddie Hobbs

[bingobus]

how can they go after FM now  when they said all along that the problem was Ger

It's always, ALWAYS been about the CB. From the very start, the reasons why the players took this action is because of the way in which the COUNTY BOARD reappointed FM.

then how come they will go back and play if ger goes. Should they not want FM to go as well before they play

Thats something that I can't understand in this whole mess. One week its Ger McCarthy and they'll not play for him but the next week the whole thing comes from FM and CBB? Can they not just strike until Donal Og is chairman and Sean Og is secretary?

Should they not be looking FM removed? Or did I miss the memo abouts next years strike and reason why they'll not win an All-Ireland this year?