McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[INDIANA]

If I remember correctly Zulu they are now pursueing the course of action that was suggested on this thread by the posters from the beginning. The current action isn't going to cause ripples on the nobel Prize scene yet.
Reillers has spent months telling this this was all impossible. Neh all of his cried. But even still we were labelled as idiots, didn't know what was going on etc. Its amazing what can be achieved with a bit of bottle and backbone. all of which as been sadly lacking in Cork over the course of this dispute.
If you care enough about something you'll do something about it. Had all the deleagtes in Duhallow taken Reillers attitude towards the matter we wouldn't have this development. Its amazing when one goes down the democratic route what can be achieved rather than sticking a thumb in your mouth and sitting in the corner.
At last things seem to be moving in the right direction down there and thats a good thing.

[orangeman]

Are we really expected to believe all the stories about delegates being madated one way and then voting another. One delegate actually seconded Honohan's motion - did he really think that that wasn't to get out ??

There's people like this in every county - just because a few do it, does it mean that they all do the same ?

Our own club delgate has been sent and told to vote a particular way, the odd time, he'll do his own thing. It doesn't mean the whole CB, the delegates, the processes etc are ALL corrupt and need changing. Cork is not much different in that regard I'm sure.

The fact remains that the 2008 panel have lost vote after vote. Either the CB delegates have a madate or they don't.

But just keeping on arguing that the CB is corrupt and that delegates don't do what they're told does not advance the argument that the 2008 panel should be reinstated.

Clubs are entitled to call an EGM. Call one for God's sake and get it sorted out.

[Zulu]

I accept that Indiana but IMO Cork club members wouldn't have been energised enough to do this if the players didn't go on strike, I'd bet my life if the players did this at the start the delegates would have supported FM, often against the wishes of their clubs. But nothing would have happened if the players went on and played, I said this at the start but the players strike is more than just about Cork hurling it will, in the long run, be the best thing to happen to Cork GAA in a very long time (well, presuming the Cork clubs go on and take back their county).

Our own club delgate has been sent and told to vote a particular way, the odd time, he'll do his own thing. It doesn't mean the whole CB, the delegates, the processes etc are ALL corrupt and need changing. Cork is not much different in that regard I'm sure.

The fact remains that the 2008 panel have lost vote after vote. Either the CB delegates have a madate or they don't.

Jesus Christ OM if your delegate doesn't vote as mandated then the vote isn't democratic, Duhallow is a massive division and all those clubs views were misrepresented so any vote is therefore null and void.

[orangeman]

Zulu - with respect you're overstating and exaggerating this whole thing about this strike being more than hurling and it will be the best thing that will have happened Cork in a long while.

The facts are that had Mc Carthy lay down and rolled over in the same way as Teddy was made to last year, then the 2008 panel would have now being playing NHL hurling under their "preferred" manager, FM and the entire Cork structure of the CB including the delegates etc etc would still be in place until the next row. The 2008 panel are striking in order to get rid of Mc Carthy - they were prepared all along to talk to FM but not Mc Carthy.

So this isn't the big showdown that you describe it. It will only be a showdown because Mc Carthy stood up to the lads. Indirectly if change does come about, ironically it will be Mc Carthy who will have brought it about.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Just on query on how the delegates vote - does each club not send a delegate to the county board, each of whom has only one vote? And then a divisional delegate can also be sent - also with only one vote? That's the way its done in Mayo. If that's the case in Cork then its not as bad as you're suggesting Zulu but I don't doubt its not an isolated example either. Not enough delegates seek or adher to a mandate from their clubs

[orangeman]

It seems the system is different in Cork where the Divisional delegate carries all the divisional clubs' votes himself and votes on behalf of say 8 / 10 different clubs.


Am I right Zulu ??

[heffo]

I'm delighted that "a number" of the 2008 panel did attend today - I suppose the others had work / family commitments !

You're an idiot.

Play the ball not the man Reillers.

[Zulu]

Well that's true enough OM but you could also argue that if the players just accepted the CB picking Gerald despite their views then this wouldn't have happened. The point here is that there at least some delegates are voting against the wishes of their clubs and whether it is 2 or 42 that is unacceptable and renders any vote taken as undemocratic.

RGS, junior and intermediate clubs don't have a vote themselves, only senior clubs and divisions have a vote therefore the Duhallow delegate represents the views of all the junior andd intermediate clubs in that division.

[RedandGreenSniper]

That's mad what happened in Duhallow so. Well mad might be stretching it - because it's nothing alien to the GAA. I still don't agree with the 2008 squad and despise their decision to strike. But the fact that the clubs allow this type of thing to happen before only now speaking out reflects poorly on yet another cog in this whole sorry mess

[orangeman]

Zulu - you belong to a club - get the necessary number of clubs and call an EGM.

That's your right - I've said a good few times here now.

So go ahead and test it out.

[Reillers]

Zulu - with respect you're overstating and exaggerating this whole thing about this strike being more than hurling and it will be the best thing that will have happened Cork in a long while.

The facts are that had Mc Carthy lay down and rolled over in the same way as Teddy was made to last year, then the 2008 panel would have now being playing NHL hurling under their "preferred" manager, FM and the entire Cork structure of the CB including the delegates etc etc would still be in place until the next row. The 2008 panel are striking in order to get rid of Mc Carthy - they were prepared all along to talk to FM but not Mc Carthy.

So this isn't the big showdown that you describe it. It will only be a showdown because Mc Carthy stood up to the lads. Indirectly if change does come about, ironically it will be Mc Carthy who will have brought it about.
Do you just take certain facts and twist them to your liking all the time for fun or as a hobby, when delegates go the CB meetings and do not vote the way the club as instructed them, then their vote means nothing at all and it happens all the time. The CB have been getting away with this for years and years, the players will be delighted with this and they are the ones who've stood up and made this happen.

[Reillers]

Saw this there a few days ago and it's one of the best I've read over the subject.

Cork's banana republic taking power from the people

Sunday February 15 2009

T here is the independent republic of Cork, there is the banana republic of Cork - and in the last eight days we have seen both entities at work.

Last Saturday, over 10,000 people marched through Cork city centre in support of the striking hurlers: it was a resounding display of people power.

Last Tuesday night, the banana republic that is the county board pretended that the march never happened. In the parallel universe run by Frank Murphy, 10,000 people protesting on the streets don't count. It might have been democracy at work but it wasn't the kind of democracy that suited him.

It has been Murphy's mantra, and that of his fall guy Gerald McCarthy, that McCarthy was "democratically elected" to the position of manager of the Cork senior hurling team. It has been their bottom line, the argument of last resort: you can't hit me with the baby in my arms, you can't attack us with our precious democracy in our arms.

But it's a parody of democracy, Alice in Wonderland politics, the democracy of the one-party state. For starters, in any democratic election worthy of the name, there is more than one candidate. Last October, Murphy walked into a county board meeting and presented the club delegates with one nominee: Gerald McCarthy, like it or lump it. It was a fait accompli - no alternative had been sought.

McCarthy had managed the hurlers for two years, they did not want to work with him any more. But the county board secretary allegedly withheld this information from the delegates. So the delegates did what delegates do when a new manager is recommended by the executive - they ratified the appointment. And they ratified it by 88 votes to 6. Bingo! Democracy at work.

At no stage in this dispute has Murphy denied that the players told him they didn't want McCarthy. He knew where they stood. And still he pushed the nomination through. The players reiterated this chain of events in their latest statement last Thursday. "The Cork panel," it said, "informed the board on numerous occasions that the only man we did not want as manager was Gerald McCarthy. Their response was to reappoint him immediately." Within a week, Murphy had the third players' strike of his career on his hands. The third players' strike within six years.

In the PR war that both sides have waged since, Murphy has wrapped the "democratic" flag around him. And he went through the same charade again last Tuesday in the latest gathering of his banana republic. This time it was a vote of confidence in McCarthy, this time the vote was 84 to 13. Bingo! Democracy at work.

It didn't matter that 10,000 people had walked the streets three days earlier in a show of no confidence. Because democracy, like the country itself, would be better with a roof on it, and four walls around it, so it can be corralled and controlled to one's own agenda.

Murphy and McCarthy could argue that this time, unlike in October, the delegates knew full well that the players didn't want McCarthy - and still they voted for him. There are two problems with this defence, one macro, the other micro. On a broader level, club delegates to county boards are generally little more than voting fodder. In theory, they are supposed to represent the views of the club members at county board level. In theory, they should be informed enough and motivated enough to challenge, query or oppose the officers on any given issue. In practice, they usually turn up and go with the flow. In practice, the county board officers run the show: when a vote is needed, they make their recommendation from the top table and the delegates, almost invariably, vote the recommendation through.

In Cork specifically, clubs are afraid to rock the boat. Simple as that. Pathetic as it may sound, there is a worry about crossing the top table publicly. So they put up and shut up.

In April 2005, the Cork County Board executive lived up to its dictatorial reputation in spectacular style when it refused outright to allow the clubs of Cork have their say on the opening of Croke Park. On this exceptional issue, the clubs diligently held meetings, canvassed the views of their members, and mandated their delegates to vote accordingly at the

subsequent meeting of the board. Polls at the time indicated that Cork clubs were overwhelmingly in favour of opening up Croke Park. Murphy was vehemently against it. And seeing the writing on the wall, the executive ruled that no vote would be taken on the night. In one stroke, the entire rank and file membership of the Cork GAA was disenfranchised.

In the light of this shameful episode, Murphy's current defence of the democratic process is nakedly hypocritical. But still the clubs of Cork put up and shut up.

It seems that long ago they just became resigned to the status quo, as if they were powerless to ever change it. In which case, the dysfunction in the system has become institutionalised: people have become numbed, they see it as normal.

So when a generation of players comes along with the courage to break the silence, they are seen as heretics, extremists. When in fact all they are saying is that the emperor has no clothes, and that his regime cannot continue.

When in fact, far from being extremists, they are the sanest people in the house.

the.couch@hotmail.com
A couple of months later someone says it outloud and gets it bang on.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/corks-banana-re public-taking-power-from-the-people-1640643.html

[The GAA]

I'm delighted that "a number" of the 2008 panel did attend today - I suppose the others had work / family commitments !

You're an idiot.

Play the ball not the man Reillers.

In fairness Heffo - read his contributions to this debate over the last 3 pages and, hand on heart, tell us he's not an idiot.
i wouldn't want him making an argument for me, thats for sure.

[Zulu]

Zulu - you belong to a club - get the necessary number of clubs and call an EGM.

That's your right - I've said a good few times here now.

So go ahead and test it out.

And I've said it to you before, I'm not from Cork, besides you've just seen proof that Cork delegates aren't voting as mandated yet your answer is to go back and mandate you delegate. Cork GAA is dysfunctional, that is the point and it will take some time for it to sort itself out.

[orangeman]

Reillers you and I both know that the 2008 panel would have been back in a flash if Mc Carthy had rolled over. They're in it for themselves - nothing at all to do with saving Cork hurling blah blah blah. They have been, would be and will be happy to play away even if Frank and all the structures remain in place.

I read Tommy Conlon's piece alright. But nothing new in Tommy's piece - just more of the same old rubbish about democracy. It doesn't even deserve comment on, it is such an amateurish, wishy washy piece of journalism. How does this man put the neck on him to even charge for this schoolboy stuff ??


When the government voted through the 8/9/10% public pension levy, was democracy working then ?? All constituencies have elected representatives, elected by the voters. There were public demonstrations today by the Garda / teachers etc. in protest.

Did the TDs carry out your mandate when they voted to take 8/9/10% off your salary