McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Eoghan Mag]

Answers to Dowling:

A match between Tipp and Cork
No
No
No
Yes
The GPA does not exist
Play for their clubs
Do nothing.

[Eoghan Mag]

Answers to Dowling:

A match between Tipp and Cork put under the microscope (either won or lost)
No
No
No
Yes
The GPA does not exist
Play for their clubs
Do nothing.

[AZOffaly]

Ok, forget just for a minute why everyone thinks we are where we are, we come back to that and no doubt will.
What's going to happen after the weekend?
Will the weekend meeting resolve the matter?
Will it be irrelevant?
Will the county board turn?
Will the 2008 panel sit it out?
And my favourite,
Will the GPA become more/offically involved?
If the meeting doesn't go as planned what options do the 2008 panel have?
If they get a sympathetic hearing how do the CB react?

I think your questions are slightly out of order, so I've rearranged it a bit.

1st. Will the weekend meeting resolve the matter? I think it may well reinforce to the players that this is a fight they cannot win if the county board are for digging in their heels. Depending on the spread of representation that turns up I think the meeting will go one of two ways. If the turnout is largely from those clubs who seem to be wavering from the Co. Board line (The 13 + 20 abstentions) then I think they will get a very easy ride, because they will be preaching to the choir. If the spread is more reflective of the entire board representation, they will be in a different position. I can't imagine the Chairmen of the clubs shouting and roaring at them, but I can see a much different tack being pursued, which would be coercion and coddling to try and get the players to end their dispute until 'Next Year'. It's inconceivable at this stage that the clubs wouldn't have discussed this matter at various points, so I'd imagine the recent votes more or less reflect the consensus from the individual clubs. It's the clubs that make up the county board after all.

2. Will it be irrelevant? Again depends on who turns up. If it's the first scenario I outlined, then yes, I'd say it'd be fairly irrelevant. If it's the latter, then it may be more relevant as it will 'de facto' be the talks that everyone is mooting all the time, under a different name and without Ger Mc.

3. What's going to happen after the weekend? Again, depends on the consituency of the meeting. If it's the clubs supporting the players only, then I'd imagine the players will attempt to get a few more motions raised at CB level in order to give themselves an exit strategy, even if they won't achieve the removal of Ger in the short term. If it's a broad base of clubs, I think the feedback will be largely negative from the players perspective and they will, in the best case then, get a watery vote proposed at the CB level, but more likely they'll have to make a decision to either disband 'for the good of the game in Cork' or continue their dispute.

4. Will the county board turn? Depends. If a sufficiently watered down motion is proposed, I think they'd accomodate it, but I don't think they'll give an inch on Ger McCarthy at this stage. They can't do it.

5. Will the 2008 panel sit it out? See 3.

6. Will the GPA become more/offically involved? See 3 & 5. If the players feel that they have a level of support sufficient for continuing the dispute, but too low a level to actually force the CB to change tack, then I think they might call for support from the GPA, and other counties. I don't think it'd be an all out strike, but I think it may be messages of support etc.

7 & 8 are kind of rehashes of the first few.

[The GAA]

1st. Will the weekend meeting resolve the matter? I think it may well reinforce to the players that this is a fight they cannot win if the county board are for digging in their heels. Depending on the spread of representation that turns up I think the meeting will go one of two ways. If the turnout is largely from those clubs who seem to be wavering from the Co. Board line (The 13 + 20 abstentions) then I think they will get a very easy ride, because they will be preaching to the choir. If the spread is more reflective of the entire board representation, they will be in a different position. I can't imagine the Chairmen of the clubs shouting and roaring at them, but I can see a much different tack being pursued, which would be coercion and coddling to try and get the players to end their dispute until 'Next Year'. It's inconceivable at this stage that the clubs wouldn't have discussed this matter at various points, so I'd imagine the recent votes more or less reflect the consensus from the individual clubs. It's the clubs that make up the county board after all.

I can't see the players getting much help from the clubs at this stage. views are far too entrenched and as much as a lot of club people would love to broker a compromise there is no longer much room for maneovre. Another important factor is that by the time the clubs' vote was reflected this week the original issues were lost. it became a question of giving into the players and the messages conveyed to the clubs certainly reflected that.

2. Will it be irrelevant? Again depends on who turns up. If it's the first scenario I outlined, then yes, I'd say it'd be fairly irrelevant. If it's the latter, then it may be more relevant as it will 'de facto' be the talks that everyone is mooting all the time, under a different name and without Ger Mc.

I don't think this weekend's meeting will be at all relevent. chairmen and secretaries are the people in clubs most closely alligned with the county board. i cannot see that they will be pursuaded towards a change in position

3. What's going to happen after the weekend? Again, depends on the consituency of the meeting. If it's the clubs supporting the players only, then I'd imagine the players will attempt to get a few more motions raised at CB level in order to give themselves an exit strategy, even if they won't achieve the removal of Ger in the short term. If it's a broad base of clubs, I think the feedback will be largely negative from the players perspective and they will, in the best case then, get a watery vote proposed at the CB level, but more likely they'll have to make a decision to either disband 'for the good of the game in Cork' or continue their dispute.

I think this is the line in the sand for the dispute. The County board will shut up shop and the players will let it go, or should do. Its a long game no i'd say and who ultimately gets the blame will be decided in the autumn

[dowling]

Tactically the players maybe should have sought to have this meeting much earlier in the dispute. The dispute has dragged on and as some of you say positions are bitterly entrenched between the main parties. And what new information can the 2008 panel relay?
AZOffaly addressed an important area, who will turn up? Will even enough turn up to give the meeting credibility or could it turn out to be a flop? I'd say the 2008 panel may be a bit worried about potential turnout.

[The GAA]

Turn up will be big i'd say. take the invitations to get involved on a personal basis if you're a club secretary or chairman. they'll all take the opportunity to engage or even just see what has to be said - bear in mind that none of them hve spoken directly to the hurlers.

The only way a poor turn out would occir would be through an organised abstention

[cornafean]

It will be interesting to see if there is a large turnout.

Hopefully, for everyone's sake there will be, at least that would give some indication of the views of the clubs.

A poorly attended meeting will solve nothing. The Board would merely claim this as a victory for them, while the 2008 panel would, for their part, claim that they clubs were pressurised not to attend.

The 2008 panel would be strongly boosted if a large number of club chairmen support their position on Sunday.

On the other hand there is a possibility that the chairmen will vote down the 2008 panel's proposals, or even support a counter-motion  from the floor, in favour of the GMcC/Board/FM position. That, in my opinion, would be a fatal blow for Cusack and co.

I presume the 2008 panel have considered this possibility?

[dowling]

It will be interesting to see if there is a large turnout.

Hopefully, for everyone's sake there will be, at least that would give some indication of the views of the clubs.

A poorly attended meeting will solve nothing. The Board would merely claim this as a victory for them, while the 2008 panel would, for their part, claim that they clubs were pressurised not to attend.

The 2008 panel would be strongly boosted if a large number of club chairmen support their position on Sunday.

On the other hand there is a possibility that the chairmen will vote down the 2008 panel's proposals, or even support a counter-motion  from the floor, in favour of the GMcC/Board/FM position. That, in my opinion, would be a fatal blow for Cusack and co.

I presume the 2008 panel have considered this possibility?

That's the thing I don't think the 2008 panel had considered an awful lot in all this other than they thought strike action would get them what they wanted without too much bother. And now look where we are.

[The GAA]

Another little considered possibility is that the 2008 players will follow through and just walk away.

[Tatler Jack]

Another little considered possibility is that the 2008 players will follow through and just walk away.

This would have been the honourable, honest and sensible thing to have done at the outset - if they really believed that Ger was not a manager that they wished to work under. Countless players down the years have done that. Instead they confused the issue, challenged the very basis on which the GAA is founded and have contributed to severe damage to cork hurling that they profess to be so passionate about. Was it worth it - not at all. If radical change is needed in Cork GAA you start by getting GAA activistists on your side not alienating and insulting them.

[NAG]

And what would be wrong with that GAA

[heffo]

Another little considered possibility is that the 2008 players will follow through and just walk away.

Perhaps the words of Hoffa himself from yesterday, preclude such a scenario:

""We will not yield to the latest attempt by the Cork County Board executive to ride roughshod over our principles. We have the courage of our convictions to see that through no matter what." "

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/ideymhgbql/

[INDIANA]

1st. Will the weekend meeting resolve the matter? I think it may well reinforce to the players that this is a fight they cannot win if the county board are for digging in their heels. Depending on the spread of representation that turns up I think the meeting will go one of two ways. If the turnout is largely from those clubs who seem to be wavering from the Co. Board line (The 13 + 20 abstentions) then I think they will get a very easy ride, because they will be preaching to the choir. If the spread is more reflective of the entire board representation, they will be in a different position. I can't imagine the Chairmen of the clubs shouting and roaring at them, but I can see a much different tack being pursued, which would be coercion and coddling to try and get the players to end their dispute until 'Next Year'. It's inconceivable at this stage that the clubs wouldn't have discussed this matter at various points, so I'd imagine the recent votes more or less reflect the consensus from the individual clubs. It's the clubs that make up the county board after all.

I can't see the players getting much help from the clubs at this stage. views are far too entrenched and as much as a lot of club people would love to broker a compromise there is no longer much room for maneovre. Another important factor is that by the time the clubs' vote was reflected this week the original issues were lost. it became a question of giving into the players and the messages conveyed to the clubs certainly reflected that.

2. Will it be irrelevant? Again depends on who turns up. If it's the first scenario I outlined, then yes, I'd say it'd be fairly irrelevant. If it's the latter, then it may be more relevant as it will 'de facto' be the talks that everyone is mooting all the time, under a different name and without Ger Mc.

I don't think this weekend's meeting will be at all relevent. chairmen and secretaries are the people in clubs most closely alligned with the county board. i cannot see that they will be pursuaded towards a change in position

3. What's going to happen after the weekend? Again, depends on the consituency of the meeting. If it's the clubs supporting the players only, then I'd imagine the players will attempt to get a few more motions raised at CB level in order to give themselves an exit strategy, even if they won't achieve the removal of Ger in the short term. If it's a broad base of clubs, I think the feedback will be largely negative from the players perspective and they will, in the best case then, get a watery vote proposed at the CB level, but more likely they'll have to make a decision to either disband 'for the good of the game in Cork' or continue their dispute.

I think this is the line in the sand for the dispute. The County board will shut up shop and the players will let it go, or should do. Its a long game no i'd say and who ultimately gets the blame will be decided in the autumn

The club chairmen represent the clubs. Surely if club members feel strongly enough about it they'll be banging down the chairmen's door? Seems to be a complete case of "couldn't be arsed" in Cork in relation to the clubs down there according to some of the posters here. In Dublin we're often accused of having no parish base but I can state categorically Dublin Gaa people would be very proactive on this in getting their message across.
Or is it a case that they agree with the county board? Has to be one or the other. I've met lots of Cork people who love their Gaa especially their clubs and I can't imagine these people not telling their chairmen exactly how they wanted their views represented.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue the 2008 panel should disband, 20 of them will go back at least and ensure cork don't sink any lower and they can rebuild for the future. There is no winners in this in the long-run.

[heffo]

1st. Will the weekend meeting resolve the matter? I think it may well reinforce to the players that this is a fight they cannot win if the county board are for digging in their heels. Depending on the spread of representation that turns up I think the meeting will go one of two ways. If the turnout is largely from those clubs who seem to be wavering from the Co. Board line (The 13 + 20 abstentions) then I think they will get a very easy ride, because they will be preaching to the choir. If the spread is more reflective of the entire board representation, they will be in a different position. I can't imagine the Chairmen of the clubs shouting and roaring at them, but I can see a much different tack being pursued, which would be coercion and coddling to try and get the players to end their dispute until 'Next Year'. It's inconceivable at this stage that the clubs wouldn't have discussed this matter at various points, so I'd imagine the recent votes more or less reflect the consensus from the individual clubs. It's the clubs that make up the county board after all.

I can't see the players getting much help from the clubs at this stage. views are far too entrenched and as much as a lot of club people would love to broker a compromise there is no longer much room for maneovre. Another important factor is that by the time the clubs' vote was reflected this week the original issues were lost. it became a question of giving into the players and the messages conveyed to the clubs certainly reflected that.

2. Will it be irrelevant? Again depends on who turns up. If it's the first scenario I outlined, then yes, I'd say it'd be fairly irrelevant. If it's the latter, then it may be more relevant as it will 'de facto' be the talks that everyone is mooting all the time, under a different name and without Ger Mc.

I don't think this weekend's meeting will be at all relevent. chairmen and secretaries are the people in clubs most closely alligned with the county board. i cannot see that they will be pursuaded towards a change in position

3. What's going to happen after the weekend? Again, depends on the consituency of the meeting. If it's the clubs supporting the players only, then I'd imagine the players will attempt to get a few more motions raised at CB level in order to give themselves an exit strategy, even if they won't achieve the removal of Ger in the short term. If it's a broad base of clubs, I think the feedback will be largely negative from the players perspective and they will, in the best case then, get a watery vote proposed at the CB level, but more likely they'll have to make a decision to either disband 'for the good of the game in Cork' or continue their dispute.

I think this is the line in the sand for the dispute. The County board will shut up shop and the players will let it go, or should do. Its a long game no i'd say and who ultimately gets the blame will be decided in the autumn

The club chairmen represent the clubs. Surely if club members feel strongly enough about it they'll be banging down the chairmen's door? Seems to be a complete case of "couldn't be arsed" in Cork in relation to the clubs down there according to some of the posters here. In Dublin we're often accused of having no parish base but I can state categorically Dublin Gaa people would be very proactive on this in getting their message across.
Or is it a case that they agree with the county board? Has to be one or the other. I've met lots of Cork people who love their Gaa especially their clubs and I can't imagine these people not telling their chairmen exactly how they wanted their views represented.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue the 2008 panel should disband, 20 of them will go back at least and ensure cork don't sink any lower and they can rebuild for the future. There is no winners in this in the long-run.

I'm an officer of a large Dublin club - my phone rings from 7.30am until 11pm with club members reminding me that I was elected to represent them (not me or the county board) and they have no hesitation in telling me how they want things done regarding all aspects of the club - if there was a contentious decision involving the county board I would be in no doubt as to the feelings of club members and would act appropriately - I certainly wouldn't be afraid of upsetting John Costello if it meant representing my club as the executive see fit (then again Costello is a gentleman)

I can't reconcile this with on the one hand according to Reillers et al that 'real GAA members are up in arms' yet delegates voting in support of county board motions

[Reillers]

Another little considered possibility is that the 2008 players will follow through and just walk away.

This would have been the honourable, honest and sensible thing to have done at the outset - if they really believed that Ger was not a manager that they wished to work under. Countless players down the years have done that. Instead they confused the issue, challenged the very basis on which the GAA is founded and have contributed to severe damage to cork hurling that they profess to be so passionate about. Was it worth it - not at all. If radical change is needed in Cork GAA you start by getting GAA activistists on your side not alienating and insulting them.

This has been going on for the bones of 7 years. These lads know what's right and what's wrong when it comes to fighting the CB, what's worth it and what's not. They also know what it takes to win and when the CB did what they did they felt they had to stand up to that, and their judgement has been good over the years on and off the pitch. Everything they've fought for has massively improved them or the footballers which was the idea.

Each strike has been worth it in the end.
Should they have to do this, no, if the CB were doing their job, they should be concentrating on on the field work, but instead they have to fight our battles, because that's what it is. It's our fight, they just happen to be the ones who'll fight it.
The clubmen at the CB meeting in large don't reflect the people of the clubs. At the march, which is trying to be shown as an armchair fan march to discredit it, but there I saw a hell lot of people in club gear, faces I knew who'd rarely venture out of the clubs into the city. Real hurling fans. People feel very strongly about things but aren't listened to. The views of the people in the club are not reflected and brought into CB meetings.
Everyone knew what the result of the meeting would be if they were made vote, a landslide victory for FM.
Apparently alot of people were unhappy about being made vote, some had to be "persuaded" some really weren't happy about Gerald..etc.
But when it came to voting, suddenly people weren't so hesitant and surprise, surprise what was it, 88-13. A landslide in favour of FM. We all knew full well that a result like that was coming, why because FM controls every aspect of Cork GAA. Everything and has for years and years.

So when he was humiliated back in 2002 when he was shown for what he is, he never got over that and has been looking to destroy, not build like his job title might suggest, Cork IC hurling. He's an intimidating bully, and I know first hand that some didn't vote on Tuesday because they didn't agree with him but were too afraid to vote against him incase they'd loose the money they needed and such.  

You say that about the players, what about McCarthy, he's a legend he is, but he's not that much of a legend that I'm willing to see Cork hurling being wiped out, he is the reason, because of him, ONE man, we are going to get relegated into the Christy Ring Cup. Because of his pride. He's not a good manager, even the people backing him know that, but he stays, why. Any selfrespecting man would have bolted months ago. This isn't about wanting to manage Cork, he knows full well that he'll never be able to work with these players again, some of the things he said, rumours and lies a lot of the time with no backing or proof were disgraceful, especially about Sean Og, all of which to get the media on his side.
He could have done the "honourable, honest and sensible thing" from the start and walked away, like he said he would, but his feelings were hurt, his pride was wounded so he went back on is word and here are, he dug his heels in and now because of that Cork hurling will be no more, they'll be relegated and though clubs could see some of the best hurling in years it wont matter because the public will have moved on and the footballers in apparently one of our best seasons yet, could miss it.
Because of one man, whatever way you want to phrase it and judge it, he is one man, and that one man is making himself or being made by Fm, bigger then Cork GAA, and because of that, we'll have no footballers this season and our hurlers could will be humiliated and relegated, and they wont win a game this season, but hey, it's all about wearing the jersey not winning according to Gerald.  
I have a lot of respect for him but you got to wonder what the hell he is doing, this seems to be no more then personal gain for him, restoring his pride, Richie Connor walked away for the good of Offaly, you think, well I would have thought that he would have done the same.