McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[heffo]

Taken from todays Eveningecho.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/pdf/back.pdf

ALL THE clubs in Cork have been written to by Cloyne GAA club and urged to discuss a motion to change voting procedures on important GAA matters, ahead of next Tuesday's first county board meeting of the year. The Cloyne GAA club has issued a circular to all clubs throughout the county looking for their support on an amendment of the rules in Cork, which would prevent any vote
of significance being taken on the night of a board meeting. There has been criticism of the Cork County Board's voting system in recent years, and controversial votes to remove an inter-county manager's right to pick his own selectors back in 2007, and to
re-appoint Gerald McCarthy last October, were taken without club delegates being given a chance to speak to their own club officers. The East Cork club of hurlers Donal Óg Cusack, Diarmuid O'Sullivan and new chairman Jerry O'Sullivan want any important issues to be discussed by clubs around the county in depth before delegates cast their votes at the next meeting. There is a specific reference in Cloyne's motion to the current Cork hurling crisis, and they want to prevent any vote being taken on the dispute, without delegates seeking direction from their own club members. The letter from the Cloyne club has been signed by club
secretary Sean Motherway, and it states: "We would urge your club to discuss the motion and would ask you to support it either
through your division or delegate when voted upon. "We hope this will address a fundamental defect in the running of our organisation within Cork."
Responding to the latest development today, Cork County Board PRO Ger Lane told the Evening Echo that the matter will be discussed by the Board Executive prior to the next Tuesday's meeting.

That can only be a positive step.

Why not a vote of no confidence in Frank next - get some patsy of a club member to propose the motion at his club agm and take it from there - the delegate who brings it to the Cork convention is only following procedure and is doing his job..

[dowling]

I have to admit that, as a first time poster, I was somewhat fearful of getting into this debate after 140 odd pages and some passionate comments. So I did try to keep my comments measured and diplomatic. And to be fair I've met with a fairly moderate response.
Now I wouldn't be into pasting what was previously posted - indeed I don't know why it's done here but so be it -and neither would I be into highlighting posts in red but I do think posters who have taken my comments to task have read what they perceived to be written rather than what I wrote.
Firstly I didn't give anyone any shit about democracy, I don't even vaguely recall anything close to it. But being vague leaves you open to correction anyway so I try to be definite and when I'm not sure I'll ask for relevant information. And for what it's worth I don't believe there's any such thing as democracy in practise, only how people decide to interpret and implement their theory of it as it suits them. So in the same way that county board members ruling with an iron fist for example aren't democratic neither is a few players cajoling a group of players to behave in a certain way.   
But of course players as amateur athletes don't have to accept anything. What do they have to accept though?
I know counties work differently but what I find hard to understand is why a county board would be put in place by club delegates to act on the clubs' and county's behalf and then be expected to have the delegates to get club approval on decisions the board might take. It's even confusing writing that.
Maybe the Cork board aren't any board and maybe everything isn't black and white but to be honest all counties have similar problems, although maybe not as intense, and similar personality issues.
Most posters against the players' action have given praise to the players for their commitment and various qualities on and off the field but the anti board posters have lacked any praise in their comments. So as an outsider am I to believe this county board and those who have served on it in the past and are maybe still on it have given nothing positive to Cork hurling?
As for the GPA element of my post, how could they not be involved? A dispute with the players and the players' body not involved? How could they not be?
But thanks for the welcome, I'm a bit rushed but hope you get my points as I meant them.

[heffo]

why a county board would be put in place by club delegates to act on the clubs' and county's behalf and then be expected to have the delegates to get club approval on decisions the board might take. It's even confusing writing that.

The county board isn't put in place by the delegates - it's put in place by the officers of the relevant counties GAA Clubs - those same clubs then appoint a delegate to attend the county board meetings and vote as instructed by the club executive.

Delegates aren't voted in at club AGM's - the officers are.

This is why it's important that a counties executive committee and not the delegates who are making the decisions

Wherein lies the confusion?

[Reillers]

Cork lost, again, today against Limerick.
1-18 to 1-09

[heffo]

Cork lost, again, today against Limerick.
1-18 to 1-09

Onwards and upwards for Cork from here so.

Nasty aul day for a game - was the traffic bad coming back from Mallow?

[dowling]

Sorry there heffo if the use of my terminology was wrong. I thought delegate was the same as representitive but if you say I'm wrong I'll stand corrected - no point in getting into another debate over the use of words. But to be fair I think the majority of posters know how county committees are elected and and how clubs are involved. The question is how can a county committee be expected to seek approval for every decision it wants to take from clubs/club delegates/club representitives/club officers/club executives or whatever before it takes them? And therin lies the confusion heffo; what would be the point in electing a county committee in the first place? It would be a wonderful world if county committees made all the right decisions and at the same time pleased everyone. Could you suggest a better system than there is at present?
And another question, has the Cork county committee over the last number of years contributed nothing at all meaningful to Cork GAA, nor any of the individuals on it?

[stevetharlear]

As a new contributor to this site let me state my knowledge of the 'inner workings' of Cork GAA is little. However there are many facets to what is happening in Cork that are common to all counties. And every county board makes decisions from time to time which don't always have universal support. Sometimes those decisions work out and other times they don't.

Year, after year, after year, after year though. Ur right, ur knowledge is very little.

[dowling]

Well then Steve why don't you enhance my knowledge for me. I posed a couple of questions about the Cork county board in my posts, maybe you'd care to address them if you had the time. I don't have a closed mind. And if I'm not pushing it perhaps you could explain the source of all your knowledge, for instance have you been on the county board, had direct dealings with it or maybe crossed the secretary and paid for it? Just what does make this board and how it works so different to the rest of the counties?

[thejuice]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/rebel-footballers-may-down-tools-in-support-of-hurlers-1614501.html

Rebel footballers may down tools in support of hurlers

The prospect of empty terraces at all Cork games later this year moved closer last night with the football squad on the brink of downing tools in support of their hurling counterparts.

After months of speculation about what they might do, the footballers were understood to have met last night to consider their options ahead of the national league which starts on Saturday.

I suppose the hurlers did the same for them last time and we got 2 free points from it. But I'd rather Sundays game went ahead as Im really looking forward to it.

[cornafean]

thread has really run its course, you have your opinion, other people have theirs. No-one cares anymore Reillers, there is nothing on this thread that hasn't been said before.

Well said.

"The whole map of Europe has been changed ... but as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone emerging once again."

If Winston was around today, he would be talking about Cork hurling.

[orangeman]

The prospect of empty terraces at all Cork games later this year moved closer last night with the football squad on the brink of downing tools in support of their hurling counterparts.

After months of speculation about what they might do, the footballers were understood to have met last night to consider their options ahead of the national league which starts on Saturday.

Opinion within the squad is believed to be very divided over what course of action to take.

The footballers have already refused to accept their Munster medals at a presentation night over Christmas, but if they opted to support the hurlers, just as the hurlers supported them 12 months ago, it would amount to an even more serious escalation of the stand-off.

The footballers' meeting took place a few miles from where Sarsfields GAA club -- the current county hurling champions -- were honouring Teddy McCarthy, the only player to win All-Ireland senior football and hurling medals in the same year (1990).

McCarthy, recently appointed hurling selector by Gerald McCarthy, used the opportunity to once again amplify the belief of the Cork management that undue pressure is being placed on the younger members of the squad not to play.

He also suggested the striking squad was divided up into "cells" with a senior player charged with overseeing each cell. "It's a very difficult time for everyone involved in this dispute. There is no joy for anyone," said McCarthy.

"I've heard all the arguments being put forward by the player representatives. I've heard the case being made by people who represent the players and who pretend they are objective commentators," he added.

"When I hear of the efforts of some of last year's panel attempting to dissuade young hurlers from playing for Cork, well, if that's true, I would be so disappointed. "When I hear of the Cork panel being organised into 'cells' each chaired by a senior player, I say to myself how could we have allowed that kind of thing into Cork hurling, into what is meant to be a sport.

"I know the 2008 players; most of them are outstanding individuals. I know that deep down what's going on doesn't represent them or what they stand for. They are in a difficult and uncomfortable situation as part of a group and they have been put in that position by people who should know better."





Outrageous IF true.


IF the footballers join the strike, the stakes will be raised and the pressure will really be brought to bear on the CB / management of both the hurlers and footballers.

[orangeman]

An excellent article today in the Indpendent by Vincent Hogan who whilst saying that he fully supports the players, states that they have no bargaining position and should tonight show some humility, instead of splitting hairs, criticising the other side and defending their position.

In it he concedes that the Cork public are with Mc arthy on the issue.

If anyone has it, can they put it up please ?

[orangeman]

Striking rebels must show courage and end this farce
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Gerald McCarthy looks on as his team prepare for a team photograph prior to their game against St Colman's
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Independent.ie  WebSearch  By Vincent Hogan


Monday January 26 2009

IN the movie 'The Odd Couple', Felix and Oscar reach an emotional reconciliation on discovering that, without one another, they amount to just two damaged, lonely people. Oscar, the slob, even takes to scolding his poker friends for dropping cigarette butts on the carpet.

"This is my house, not a pigsty!" he snaps, suddenly in harmony with his uptight, fastidious room-mate. It is the formulaic, happy Hollywood ending of the '60s, sworn enemies coming to their senses.

We sure could do with a little bit of Hollywood in Cork hurling now.

You have to wonder what, if anything, of value can come from tonight's press conference by the '08 panel, given that the conflict has -- for months -- been sighing and wheezing like a busted old plumbing system. What exactly have they up their sleeves? A detailed dismantling of Gerald McCarthy's latest statement? A sharply worded critique of the county board's adversarial ways?

If so, a word to the wise. Cancel.

Frankly, we're losing the will to live here. Unless and until somebody, somewhere is willing to park their obstinacy and, yes, principle on this matter, the story is going nowhere. It's just noise. A booming symphonic whine. One side bad-mouthing the other, scoring points, splitting hairs, wasting time.

For what it's worth, this column's sympathy is with the '08 panel. The re-appointment of Gerald McCarthy was (a) a needlessly swift and provocative act given the players' stated aversion to his management and (b) a gratuitous exploitation of the same players' political naivety.

Worse, it followed a trend. You might imagine a County Board would be inclined to smooth the path towards its representative teams winning All-Ireland titles. In Cork's case, the board seems compelled to all but put up road blocks.

But both sides now baulk at the steep steps descending to a compromise and, truth tell, the rest of hurling is tempted to catch ye both by the ears and push. This thing is getting tedious. It is clear from Gerald's language that he will not capitulate and, on all available evidence, that's just fine by the Cork public.

They don't see him as the problem here. They see a refusal to swallow pride as the problem. An adherence to the kind of barbed-wire philosophy defined entirely by proclamations of what you will not do.

It may be that you imagine the proximity of tomorrow night's County Board meeting and, specifically, the Cloyne motion calling for clubs to engage proactively in this dispute as potential wind in your sails. It may be, too, that you are bargaining on a humiliating start to Cork's League campaign over the coming weeks rehabilitating your negotiating position.

But the problem is that you don't have a negotiating position.

Since this dispute erupted in late October, your whole argument has swung on a hinge that can neither be oiled nor replaced. You will not work with Gerald. You will, it seems, not even enter into a room to discuss not working with him. Yet, you committed to the arbitration process, a process adhered to -- to the letter, if not the spirit -- in his re-appointment.

Yes, that made you look guileless and not nearly as politically astute as when you put manners on the County Board in 2002. And, yes, the Board's entire motivation in this dispute has looked nothing more sophisticated than a vengeful attempt to balance the books. For that, the compliance of the very clubs you now hope might be energised has been lamentable.

But can you honestly sustain an argument that you are fighting for future generations of Cork hurlers when it is in your interests that the young players currently wearing the jersey are wiped out brutally in competition?

If tonight is to count for anything, let it be for humility. Your unity has been admirable. You deserve better than a spiteful County Board playing politics with a game they hold in trust. For seven years, you have adorned that game with the classicism of your hurling.

But that is when your voice is at its most eloquent. In the hot belly of Semple Stadium or Croke Park on a Championship Sunday.

Establishing committees or calling strategic press conferences just pads around the issue. As one chat-board contributor put it memorably last week: "It reminds you of the Fr Ted episode where Dougal is stuck with a bomb on the milk float. When Ted asks for ideas, Fr Derek Beeching responds "Is there anything to be said for saying another Mass?"

Let tonight be an achievement, not a gesture.

[Reillers]

You know how many are beggining to turn out at the 08 pannels training, there was about 100 plus on Sunday.
Support is growing for the player, after all the initial emotions have died down the stone cold truth is left staring us in the face and it does not reflect well on the CB/McCarthy side.

This is something that the players shouldn't have had to go through once never mind three times. On every occasion, they have been right in their thoughts, but maybe not always in their actions. But on this one, they are being made look the bad guys, they are getting ripped apart in the press, while McCarthy, to me anyway, seems to come across like he's enjoying all of this a little too much. It's been poor ole Gerald from the start, and there was massive support behind him, but support is swinging behind the players as we speak..

Fans are still holding out hopes that the players will come back, or that they can force McCarthy out. More and more people (in Cork anyway) are begginning to see reason on this side

This whole dispute started with a 2nd rate county board appointing a 2nd rate manager over the Cork hurling team purely to force the resignation of what they consider to be a handful of "troublemakers" in the squad who have embarassed and humiliated the CB since 02. And to get their long awaited revenge.

It is obvious from recent statements from the CB, McCarthy and his selectors, that they don't want the players back, they never did. They are only interested in getting the 20ish year olds back.
On one hand there's the open invitation for any player to return (which was never genuine) while in the next sentence there's talk of cells and senior players threatening younger players. This has been repeated so often that it's is now taken as fact by the GAA public.

This is something that has to be addressed at this press conference tonight. What also will be addressed tonight is apparently the players will read a very long list (which has been approved by everyone on the list) of the players who was contacted by Gerald but refused to play.
Whatever form it takes, I hope that by the end of this it will be clear that any player who does not wish to play under this current management team is doing so of their own choice.

What's, imo, disgraceful is the rumours which have been denied by everyone and anyone who has anything to do with the 08 panel, about those 4 or 5, and it's Gerald who keep saying it and now his selector Teddy McCarthy comes out and goes on about so called cells of players which is bullshit rumours made up by them. They are serious accusations and disgraceful. But that side, the oh poor inocent Gerald's side seem to be able to get away with saying anything.
I really, really hope that the players come across well tonight because too many times when they've had the best intentions or when they were right and they were facing the media they came acorss very offensive, back up against the wall, type.
They need to keep their heads tonight, tell the truth what's been going on and they'll be fine. Anything can happen tonight and probably will.

There could be mass retirement, which I really hope isn't the case.
There could be an announcment about the footballers..etc.

There will be (or so they say) some bombshells dropped tonight though.

They spent four and a half hours in a meeting last night discussing what they'll say tonight. Most of the squad will be there, everyone who can make it is going apparently.  

The meeting tonight, followed by the first CB meeting of 09, with the Cloyne request on mind..it could be an interesting few days.
Hopefully at the end of it all we'll have a solution.
..I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Reillers, I agree with you on some things. Gerald McCarthy is getting a lot of sympathy. Initially I felt for him because his name was slurred by the players. But now, like you, I get the feeling he is enjoying himself a bit too much, exacting revenge on the players who told him he wasn't good enough.

And Teddy McCarthy clearly doesn't like the players either and he's really sticking the studs in too. The current management aren't conducting their affairs with a level of class that would endear themselves to me.

But that is not to say that the players are right in all of this. Agreed, you have a much better understanding than most of us about the politics down there and the influence Frank Murphy yields. Obviously its a major problem. But I think that's one for the clubs and if the clubs are not willing to do that, then there must not be enough support for his removal. Better the devil you know kinda thing . . .

But, fundamentally, where the players erred, was their refusal to have McCarthy in charge come what may. They therefore backed themselves into a corner where there was no room for compromise. Last year they signed up to consultation in the selection of the manager. They showed a certain naivety there perhaps but, fundamentally, refusing to play because the man that was re-appointed to the position of manager was a step too far and there was no other outcome on the cards once they were refusing to compromise on this stance.

I await their press conference with interest and I only hope it doesn't make the situation worse. Surely they can't go any more hardline/critical?

By the way when and where is the conference? And when are we likely to hear a report? Nine o'clock news I take it?