McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[The GAA]

you forgot to add IMHO after that post Indiana because that is pure speculation at best. could you reference or quote a single piece of supporting information for that hypothesis?

[johnneycool]

you forgot to add IMHO after that post Indiana because that is pure speculation at best. could you reference or quote a single piece of supporting information for that hypothesis?

the lack of supporting information and conjecture is on both sides of the argument here GAA.


I too wish that someone would blow the whistle on all these terrible deeds commited by Frank so that I can understand why the players were so quick to strike.

the training and sandwiches must have been horrible!!

[Reillers]

Cunningham is a close friend of some of the players Reilers, you know that as well as I do. On that basis he isn't a canditate until the senior players are gone.
They did have problems with O Grady early on, they found some of his drills boring , and it appeared in national newspapers. After the strike they didn't have the luxury of going on strike again, so they hadn't much choice had they with O Grady. Of course there were no issues with Allen, because he was a selector more than a manager. These players like to be in control thats the bottom line. They wanted Cunningham because they knew he would run things according to the way they wanted them , they got McCarthy , didn;t like him from the start and have now refused to play for him.
This crack of the players wanting to hold interviews is going too bloody far in my view.

He got on with the players. Cunnigham likes and respects them, there's a difference between that and calling him a friend, a very good working relationship..he wouldn't if the players were as bad as you try to make out.
Why is it that everyone who comes out on side of the players most have some reason and excuse to it. He got on with them for a reason and he should have been made manager in 06 after Allen but the CB wanted to regain power.

Finding drills boring isn't near on the level of what was wrong here and on both occasions the players trained and the found O Grady to be genious and McCarthy..well we all know, even his own fans don't think he's a good manager.
They would never have gone on strike of bloody drills, you say that you know a lot about Cork hurling, that statment makes me think otherwise. Because that's bull, unfair and factless, your so called knowledge isn't coming acorss in this but your bias is.
All strikes have had backing to them, strong backing. They gave McCarthy a chance, he got the two years and was bad at it. Like I said, even the people who back McCarthy think he's a bad manager.
You're talking bull, you really are, this bias crap, Allen, well I thought he deserved more respect then that..it's actually like I'm talking to OM again.)  An excellent manager, a legend, a great man, but because he got on with the players, oh there most be some excuse here as well.
He was very succesful with this team and had a harder job with them then McCarthy has had because he didn't have the lads like O Neill and Co. Surely, well atleast I would have thought anyway that a man of John Allen's stature who was that succesful deserved more respect then that. Like I said, both were excellent managers who had no problems with the team, everyone has teething problems, but they go after a while. McCarthy though..

They don't want to hold interviews for managers, they didn't even want to be on the board that selected a manager but were forced into it because of binding arbitrition. The players never said they wanted to hold interviews.

And what about Jerry Wallis and Seanie McGrath. They've worked with the players for years, and McCarthy, yet they are now training the players..what's the reason for this..best friends with them is it.

I'm sick of this if someone sides with the players there most be some excuse but when most of the ("knowledgeable") media side with Gerald it's the God honest truth.


"I can vouch for the integrity of this present group of Cork hurlers. Three of the player leaders, Seán Óg (Ó hAilpín), Dónal Óg (Cusack) and John Gardiner, are people of the highest calibre. They are honourable, decent reasonable people. They are willing to put their careers on the line again for the betterment of the future generations of Cork hurlers. They don't want to pick the manager but they do want to have all the available, interested, best-qualified candidates allowed to pitch for the position before a committee which has the betterment of Cork hurling at heart and not some power or revenge agenda. That is the core of this issue."

IS that good enough, is Allen's word good enough for you. Because what you are saying is that he's just a petty selector and had no control over a team he led to winning and playing in AI finals. Clearly there's little respect for Allen here, seeing as he was just a selector and not really a manager.  

This is where I got the quotes from, Allen wrote it a few months ago, it was on here all ready but maybe it might give you some truths..unless you can come up with another excuse..
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/1104/1225523342707.html

[INDIANA]

Its not good enough for me, I've heard far too much about some of the senior players from my own sources to have any respect anymore for some of the senior players. Thats my opinion, you have yours and you're entitled to it. The players want to involve themselves far too much in the process and that goes against my principles for the running of the Gaa. All counties have there problems and they work through them. Cork go for the nuclear option everytime.
I think Cunningham is a good choice without some of the senior players. In my view he's too close to some of them and the team will be run by sub-committee again. Either way Cork hurling is finished for the forseeable future and will have some job keeping Munster rugby at bay. Because they are the only winners in this.We can solve conflicts all over the World except in Cork.
Says a lot about the people involved in the dispute. they must be really proud of themselves when you compare it in that context. But then again whether its Roy Keane, Stephen Ireland or the Cork hurlers and the Cork county board, it'll always be someone else's fault rather than all parties coming halfway to salvage something. Thats conflict resolution.

[Reillers]

Its not good enough for me, I've heard far too much about some of the senior players from my own sources to have any respect anymore for some of the senior players. Thats my opinion, you have yours and you're entitled to it. The players want to involve themselves far too much in the process and that goes against my principles for the running of the Gaa. All counties have there problems and they work through them. Cork go for the nuclear option everytime.
I think Cunningham is a good choice without some of the senior players. In my view he's too close to some of them and the team will be run by sub-committee again. Either way Cork hurling is finished for the forseeable future and will have some job keeping Munster rugby at bay. Because they are the only winners in this.We can solve conflicts all over the World except in Cork.
Says a lot about the people involved in the dispute. they must be really proud of themselves when you compare it in that context. But then again whether its Roy Keane, Stephen Ireland or the Cork hurlers and the Cork county board, it'll always be someone else's fault rather than all parties coming halfway to salvage something. Thats conflict resolution.

You're "sources" with all due respect with some of the stuff you've come up with I'd be slow to believe them, enlighten us, what did they say that you are willing to believe over the likes of the players, Allen, O Grady..
You wont give the players the time of day because of a few stories your heard in the pub.
When will people realise that there is no other option here but the nuclear one. Too close to them, so having managed them before to an extent is a bad thing, he has their trust and respect, why's that a bad thing, by your talk you'd swear you're afraid that the players would put some spell on them.
Like you say that you know a lot about Cork hurling and then you come out with lines like the last one..they don't add up.

And please, answer me this, explain the Wallis and McGrath situation, they've worked with all of them, the past managers, the players and the current one and they are on side with the players..did ya ever think why.

And what Allen says, basically what anyone says that backs the Cork hurlers isn't good enough, despite them saying they are a great bunch, honest hardworking lads who love playing for the jersey, your "source" makes you think otherwise. This source most be so outstanding that they have convinced you that the likes of Allen are all liars..they most have all been manipulated and hypnotised right??
I'd just love to know who that source is, but of course, it's confidential or else we'd all be down in the pub.

What is good enough for you, clearly not the word of people who have worked with these men before and now..so what is. That everyone sides against the players..come on.

[The GAA]

Its not good enough for me, I've heard far too much about some of the senior players from my own sources to have any respect anymore for some of the senior players. Thats my opinion, you have yours and you're entitled to it.

Thats entirely my point. what you hve represeted as fact is your opinion, and you are most welcome to hold it.

i don't believe any of what you speculate re the O'Grady / Allen eras. O'Grady's straight forward support for the players is testament to the respect he has for them as men, never mind hurlers

[INDIANA]

I've formed my opinion on the basis of the knowledge I have at my disposal Reillers. I've never put much stock in the nation's media, so I haven't got it from there. I don't have a reputation as a WUM either . I don't drink either so I didn't get it from the pub as I'm rarely in them. You're pro-player and you're entitled to your opinion. But thats all it is Reillers, an opinion same as the rest of us.
And as I said in my last post its some endigtment of Cork Gaa that the main protagonists won't even sit down. Yet we can get the Israelis and the Palestinians to sit down and talk. Its got to the stage wher most Gaa peole don't care anymore , there are bigger things in the world than the Gaa, a bit of perspective is needed ,something thats sadly missing on Leeside.

[realrebel]

reillers
im still waiting for u to quote that JBM supports the players?
ger cunninghan is very friendly with this bunch of players
i was in a pub (i think ger owns it) over the christmas and the squad were all in a area with ger cunningham
a free night for the players ?i wonder

[Reillers]

reillers
im still waiting for u to quote that JBM supports the players?
ger cunninghan is very friendly with this bunch of players
i was in a pub (i think ger owns it) over the christmas and the squad were all in a area with ger cunningham
a free night for the players ?i wonder

I never said a word about JBM..You have, I asked where, I never once brought up the legend that is JBM.

[Reillers]

I've formed my opinion on the basis of the knowledge I have at my disposal Reillers. I've never put much stock in the nation's media, so I haven't got it from there. I don't have a reputation as a WUM either . I don't drink either so I didn't get it from the pub as I'm rarely in them. You're pro-player and you're entitled to your opinion. But thats all it is Reillers, an opinion same as the rest of us.
And as I said in my last post its some endigtment of Cork Gaa that the main protagonists won't even sit down. Yet we can get the Israelis and the Palestinians to sit down and talk. Its got to the stage wher most Gaa peole don't care anymore , there are bigger things in the world than the Gaa, a bit of perspective is needed ,something thats sadly missing on Leeside.

I'm just saying that it most be one hell of a source if O Grady and Allen's word means nothing.
Not much stock in the nations media, that's what most of your arguement, what you say, the wanting to interview managers and such, that's all from the media.
There's one thing having an opinion, but it's another to try and pass that opinion off as fact.
It's some detriment to Cork GAA that we are in this situation, a manager who can't do his job put back in place by the CB for one reason and one reason early and not only has that been achieved but the players also have very little support, it most be like Christmas and his birthday for Murphy all wrapped into one. He's got his ambition, the senior players who embarased him are no more and everyone is just too busy criticizing the players to look at the real problem..him.
There is problems, drastic problems all over the world, but the one in Cork is real, not near as important as some of the other things going on but it's still there, we shouldn't just ignore it because of other troubles across the water, it's a problem that hasn't been and can't be solved because of the selfish plank that dictates the GAA in Cork, is that near as important as what's going on across the world, no, does that mean we should just ignore it because it's complicated. No, a little bit of reality is needed here.

[heffo]

reillers
im still waiting for u to quote that JBM supports the players?
ger cunninghan is very friendly with this bunch of players
i was in a pub (i think ger owns it) over the christmas and the squad were all in a area with ger cunningham
a free night for the players ?i wonder

I never said a word about JBM..You have, I asked where, I never once brought up the legend that is JBM.

Reillers: "Every single person, except Gerald, who has worked with these players has come out in support of them"

I believe Realrebel is looking for a link to where JBM who coached some of the team to an AI in '99 has come out in support of them as per your post above.

[Reillers]

He hasn't come out and said anything..
Let me rephrase it then, ..Every single person, except Gerald, who has worked with these players, who has come out, has come out in support of them."

[Reillers]

you forgot to add IMHO after that post Indiana because that is pure speculation at best. could you reference or quote a single piece of supporting information for that hypothesis?

the lack of supporting information and conjecture is on both sides of the argument here GAA.


I too wish that someone would blow the whistle on all these terrible deeds commited by Frank so that I can understand why the players were so quick to strike.

the training and sandwiches must have been horrible!!

Maybe this will help. Read it, don't scan it, read it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0126/1201073640718.html

It's an article from the 07 strike, Sean Og's interview, Tom Humphries, excellent as ever at his job. I know it's long, but read it.

There are some lines in there..I mean people on here and up and down the country try to make an argument that the CB are doing their job. And that this wasn't seen coming and shit like that, and oh it's just the players again.

I've highlighted some parts of it, the links there though and I'd suggest you read it.


"Before 2002 we were a joke. Galway hammered us that year. The next summer we contested an All-Ireland final. Why change now?"

When he reflects, though, he reckons it isn't all as sudden as it seems. It's not Change Now. It has been a process of attrition, a slow clawing back.

....You refered to the chicken and the sandwiches....here's your answer. (There are a lot of other examples before this part but the part about the sandwiches which has been asked a lot, is covered here.)

Niggles. The team used to have a person whose job was to look after conditions and arrangements when they travelled, making sure about hotels and food and just getting things right.

"The county board looked after that this year and it was a shambles. We're off training by ourselves, putting work in, eating properly and then turning up for matches, and, instead of pasta, fruit and boiled chicken, being thrown a heap of sandwiches.

"You see things being clawed back all the time. When we talk about the importance of preparation, you see they don't take us seriously. You're outside and these things seem small, but you can see them. But all of these things were building up. No one thing is what it's all about. It's not about chicken or sandwiches; it's about being pushed back to the way things were before 2002."  So come last autumn, with the footballers having lost heavily in the All-Ireland final and the hurlers no longer the darling buds of May, the hammer came down. You can see a certain genius in the thinking of the man who hatched the amendment. The proposal of a retrograde management system not only gave Billy Morgan a farewell kick in thanks for his service but also served as a shot across the bows of the uppity hurlers.  The gamble was that the footballers, chastened by their defeat, would accept a county board-imposed selection committee and that the hurlers, afraid to down tools again for a cause not directly theirs, would hold their peace and be forced to accept the system themselves next time around. Nobody can stand up and say the management system being proposed is anything other than a backward step. It is a length of metal pipe being brandished to beat players over the heads...do the CB learn..no, they have just been waiting and waiting.  The argument instead centres on a vote taken among people who were sick to death of hearing about players and their needs and their demands to have domestic fixtures moved. Does a vote among those people, a vote in favour of applying the length of metal pipe to the cranium of the players' collective, render all other considerations redundant? Must the players simply offer their heads (and the blood, sweat and tears of a season) because some suits in a room voted for it to be so? Seán Óg reckons not. "People say to us players that we are better off concentrating on winning All-Irelands. That's what we are doing though. That's what this is about. The jersey. Respecting the jersey. We don't want anything more or extra. We just want the system we agreed, the system we have been playing under.

"We don't want to pick the selectors or the managers. We just want managers to be able to do their best for themselves and for us and for the people of Cork."

He says the county board will only pick people who they think will toe the line.

We want to play, but if we talk about preparing for All-Irelands we want to play under a system that doesn't handicap us. Would this happen in any other serious county? Do Kerry carry on like this in football? Do Kilkenny do it?

"I play to enjoy this game, but there is an onus on wearing the Cork jersey, which every one of us loves and adores and wears with pride. It's about All-Irelands and pride.

"There is an onus to give your best, and there is an onus on the county board to provide the best so you give the players the chance to be the best. I'd hate to see players coming after me being willing to die for the jersey but being doomed to fail every year because the best managers and selectors won't go near the county team. That disrespects the Cork jersey. It isn't enough for Cork players to show up and the honour will be with it. It's not enough, there's a legacy of massive success and showing up for the sake of it, fielding a team for the sake of it doesn't wash.


"When we go training in Fermoy, we have two things in mind: the Munster championship and Croke Park. If anyone thinks there is anything more important to us than the red jersey, they are wrong. It galls us. It hurts us. This jersey is massive to us. I'm 13 years playing for Cork. I have loved every moment in the jerseys. It galls me that we are in the situation that such a proud county as Cork would take its players and give them a second-rate set-up. Would this happen in any other county?"


If the Cork public want to polarise the debate, Seán Óg is clear as to where they should be starting.

"Did you watch Star Wars?" he asks. "This episode is The Empire Strikes Back! If there is a resolution now, something else will flare up next year or the year after until Frank (Murphy, secretary of the county board) wishes to go. I'm not telling Frank to step aside, but I'm saying it would help.

"I'm afraid if we get some resolution here there will be something else next year, and will players be strong enough to go again and stand? Just because Frank did good things in the past doesn't mean we lose the right to argue on other issues or question his future. What is going on here is wrong."

Frank is a question for the longer term.  

....
Sometimes he looks around him and despairs. The best promotion of the GAA in any county is having a senior team doing well. He sees little or no promotion of GAA in Cork compared to Dublin. He sees hurling schools dying on their feet and nothing being done. And he looks at the two county senior teams and sees them being hobbled.

"We'll promote. We are only too willing to go around. For 10 or 12 years I have been - I would say - to every school or club in Cork. Gladly. I'll drive to the farthest corner of west Cork if I have time to get down there. All that goes on top of being a player, and being a player is a job every day of the week. But if you don't have your flagship teams and you are doing nothing else, where is the future of the GAA in Cork?"

He wonders if "the county board would prefer for us not to compete in All-Ireland finals or semi-finals so long as they had total say? Under this system, the players and the people who follow Cork aren't getting the best people. That's not what the Cork jersey stands for. But the county board are getting their old powers back. There is no point in looking back after five years of failure and saying, ah, the players were right back in 2008."[/u]

He sips his water, shakes his head. Second time around doing something he never expected to have to do once. It's the one thing in his hurling career that hasn't gotten easier with practice.


It's messy and all over the place and long..but read it. If you don't do anything else today just read that interview.

I've no doubt that Indiana will degrade it, no doubt his source probably told him all kinds of stories about Sean Og, which must be true.

[realrebel]

reillers
another question i want youu to answer
how come the players couldnt go to the meeting, u were saying because of work, family
but how come they are all available for the press conference on mon?
a bit strange dont you think when olan and the board were trying to get the players to a meeting they couldnt
and all of a sudden they are all available?

[Reillers]

reillers
another question i want youu to answer
how come the players couldnt go to the meeting, u were saying because of work, family
but how come they are all available for the press conference on mon?
a bit strange dont you think when olan and the board were trying to get the players to a meeting they couldnt
and all of a sudden they are all available?

I said what I heard was commitments, why they didn't meet up, it could have been commitments or why bother meeting when we all know what the result would be.
It would only be a clarification of where everyone stands.