McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[RedandGreenSniper]

Reading over the posts I noticed something amiss. 21 posts WITHOUT a contribution from Orangeman! Is that a record? Is he ok?

[stephenite]

He's off celebrating 'cos the players lost

[johnneycool]

So what's your prediction Reillers ? That Cork will get beat out the gates in the first few league matches and that public pressure will lead to the CB sacking Mc Carthy, appoint a new manager, the strikers will return and all will be rosy in the strikers' garden again ?

It should happen. But with this CB..

Even if McCarthy did get the boot after a few bad beatings, would that be enough for the strikers considering that Frank would still be in control or would he have to tender his resignation or be offered early retirement to appease the old squad?

With Frank being the organ grinder, surely he has to go as well, no?

What should happen and what will happen in Cork, but that's the CCB for ya.

Repeat as I don't see a response Reillers and I think you might be in a position to answer?

Now I know you are not a player    but have inside knowledge of the issues, so would McCarthy stepping aside be enough for the strikers or does Frank need to fall on his sword as well?

I know Frank leaving other than on his terms is unlikely so I'm wondering does it really matter if McCarthy goes as the players won't be happy with whoever manages the team as long as Frank holds office. Am I correct?

Is there a possibility or scenario that the strikers would still play for Cork and Frank hold his job?

[Zulu]

Taken from today's Examiner, and it reflects pretty much my own thoughts on the situation.



No man bigger than Cork hurling

By Donal O'Grady

BARACK OBAMA was installed on Tuesday as president of the USA, swept into power on a mandate for change — change that was sorely needed, according to the US electorate.


Those winds of change haven't blown into Cork hurling circles. The more things change outside, the more they seem to stay the same around Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

I don't want to go back over old ground but a review is necessary to give some background to this impasse, where team manager Gerald McCarthy will not step aside and the 2008 panel, the bulk of whom would be needed for the 2009 campaign, want to play for Cork but refuse to play for Gerald.


The players contend that they informed the County Board executive members well in advance of the manager's appointment that they did not want to work under Gerald McCarthy for 2009-10.

By forcing through this appointment in a democratically flawed process the board placed Gerald McCarthy in a most difficult position — exactly the same as the unfortunate Teddy Holland last year.

If people selecting a manager/leader are requested not to appoint a particular person by the group who will be led by that person, it is ludicrous to expect that same group to respond in a positive manner if that particular person is appointed – particularly if they have had experience of that person's leadership for the previous two years.

Frank Murphy, as leader of the Cork County Board executive, will have been well aware of this. If the sole agenda of the committee was to appoint a manager to win the All Ireland, it's clear that the manager would have to have the respect of the players to get the necessary response.

Clearly on this occasion, the agenda of the County Board executive members sitting on the selection committee to appoint the manager did not match up with this, and only Gerald McCarthy, in their minds, was considered. However, as the players had flagged their unwillingness to work with McCarthy, then no matter how highly the county board members rated him, he should not have been considered for the position.

Similarly, if the players' representatives put forward a name not acceptable to the county board side, that person should not be considered either.

No meaningful negotiations had been arranged by the Cork County Board executive since the dispute erupted, and there was no real leadership on their part — appointing an independent chairman to a flawed process was never going to work. This was simply window dressing.

I said at the time that the dispute arose that the players should have approached things differently, by seeking to improve coaching and training matters from within by working with Gerald McCarthy rather than opting out.

Unfortunately so much has been said since then of a negative nature that the dispute has deepened and become very bitter.

I thought initially that a compromise might have been possible, but unfortunately I now believe the exact opposite. So what of the future?

Realistically, the panel of players who did battle against WIT in the Waterford Crystal Trophy — though giving of their best — have no chance in any serious competition.

It is difficult to see them developing to the extent that they will restore Cork's fortunes with All Ireland victories. If there is no resolution, Cork now face some ten years or more in the hurling wilderness without senior success, particularly as there has been no recent minor or Under 21 success to build on.

The Cork fans will feel short-changed if the development panel is used in major competitions and if the likes of Seán Óg Ó hÁilpín, the two O'Connors and Tom Kenny do not play again for the county. Those fans will vote with their feet and stay away from the major games.

The statement that no man is bigger than Cork hurling has been bandied about of late, but maybe it's time for certain individuals in leadership positions to look at their role in this impasse, to reassess their positions, to look to the future and maybe make some unpalatable decisions, as leaders must do in any crisis — and this is a crisis.

The hope for Cork is that some resolution can be found and all Cork hurling folk can sing from the same hymn sheet on their hopeful journey to Mecca in September.

[heffo]

We should have easily beaten Dublin, the team was flat and unfit, Dublin are a poor side trying to build, under their manager they might, but Dublin are no threat to any of the big teams who we should easily dispose of.
Now we are no arrogant then KK or Waterford or Tipp. Saying we should trash Dublin isn't arrogance, pretty much every top team can say it.

You're priceless Reillers!

Were you at the game - you won by five in the end and only for an unforced mistake at one end by our keeper which allowed Deane in for a goal and a great save by the SIPTU CEO at the other end, you'd have been beaten - your arrogance really is priceless..

As Indiana says, this Cork team has been in decline since 2005 and all the white bread sandwiches and outdated drills in the world won't change that.

[INDIANA]

Its a totally biased viewpoint towards the players Zulu, which he's perfectly entitled to of course. Donal knows full well that even if Mc Carthy was gone it wouldn't solve the problem which he does alude to in the article. You can't have players intefereing with the running of the county board because soon everyone will be at it. The Gaa isn't a perfect organisation as Tatler said many posts ago, you can either attempt to change things through the proper channels or walk away from it. I absolutely draw the line at players wanting to interfere with county boards.

[cornafean]

reillers i heard today diarmuid o flynn was sacked from the examiner today
did u hear that at all?

Does anyone know is this true, or is it in the realm of "Unfounded Allegations"?

[Zulu]

Well it's his view point Indiana, if I wrote an article it would reflect my opinion as would yours if you did, I don't think that is a biased opinion, it is just an opinion. I agree that we have to, by and large, work within the flawed system we have but when there is gross and clear abuse of power and when that is to the detriment of the GAA and it's reputation then I believe we can and must do what ever is necessary to highlight that and eradicate it if possible. That is what is happening here IMO and we shouldn't have to accept it on the basis of 'democracy' or 'procedure', especially in an amateur, voluntary organization and great players and great GAA men shouldn't have to slink off into the darkness because men like Frank Murphy are manipulating a 'democratic' process, of which he has serious influence over. Remember this man is getting paid by the GAA to work for it yet he has overseen three strikes by Cork GAA's flag ship team, all of which he has played a part in instigating.

[heffo]

Well it's his view point Indiana, if I wrote an article it would reflect my opinion as would yours if you did, I don't think that is a biased opinion, it is just an opinion. I agree that we have to, by and large, work within the flawed system we have but when there is gross and clear abuse of power and when that is to the detriment of the GAA and it's reputation then I believe we can and must do what ever is necessary to highlight that and eradicate it if possible. That is what is happening here IMO and we shouldn't have to accept it on the basis of 'democracy' or 'procedure', especially in an amateur, voluntary organization and great players and great GAA men shouldn't have to slink off into the darkness because men like Frank Murphy are manipulating a 'democratic' process, of which he has serious influence over. Remember this man is getting paid by the GAA to work for it yet he has overseen three strikes by Cork GAA's flag ship team, all of which he has played a part in instigating.

Zulu you've spoken a lot of sense on this thread are clearly clued in the proceedings - a common theme throughout the thread and anytime I speak to someone involved in Cork GAA is Frank Murphy and how much everyone dislikes him. I realise he holds the key to the two most powerful instruments in GAA administration - fixtures & Championship tickets (particularly AI tickets), but surely if he is disliked as much as people say then it's quite straightforward to organise a motion of no-confidence in him and get the delegates to vote him out.

I know there would be behind the scenes maneuvering and certain clubs would have loyalty to him or whatever, but if he's disliked to the extent as it's alluded to, then it should be straightforward to do it - it can't be a case of 200 gutless delegates can it??

[Zulu]

If I'm not mistaken Heffo you are or have been on committees yourself so you'll appreciate the reality that some people do get into positions of power and are very difficult to remove even when many would like to see them go. Alliances are built up, favours due and in many cases most people aren't willing to do the job themselves.

We have a situation in our own club where our club delegate wouldn't be very popular with the younger element, but he is a career GAA man and knows the inner workings of the CB, he also sells tickets, can pull a few strings and will organize some of the less glamorous things that need to be done. However he would fight with himself and will often oppose plans which are forward thinking and progressive which drives me and many others crazy because if opposes something 90% of the older members will also oppose it. I would seek to ease him out of the club or at least out of a position of power but few in the club are willing or able to be the county club delegate and few would do some of the things he does and I don't live in the county any more so I can't get that involved.

I've just realized I'm rambling a bit here but what I'm trying to say is that although many in Cork want to see the back of Frank, he is also a very capable GAA politician and gives Cork great clout on a national level and despite his faults there probably isn't anyone in Cork who would be even close to being able to replace him as secretary at the moment. He holds great influence in Cork and any moves to remove him would be met with serious resistance but power has corrupted him in my opinion and he is sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, he is not used to people standing up to him and he can't seem to let 2002 go. If he just allowed the IC teams to get on with their business without interference, things would be fine IMO.

[INDIANA]

Its the same in every walk of life Zulu, I've had company directors I wanted to get rid of but couldn't. I've had members on the club executive , i'd love to have got rid of, but couldn't. You have to bide your time and galvanise support for your views and you can get rid of them. That system is there for all and it doesn't come with a special appendix for some. Its not a perfect system by a long shot, but its the best we have, but the world would grind to a halt if everybody employed the same methods of dispute resolution as Cork Gaa does.

[heffo]

If I'm not mistaken Heffo you are or have been on committees yourself so you'll appreciate the reality that some people do get into positions of power and are very difficult to remove even when many would like to see them go. Alliances are built up, favours due and in many cases most people aren't willing to do the job themselves.

We have a situation in our own club where our club delegate wouldn't be very popular with the younger element, but he is a career GAA man and knows the inner workings of the CB, he also sells tickets, can pull a few strings and will organize some of the less glamorous things that need to be done. However he would fight with himself and will often oppose plans which are forward thinking and progressive which drives me and many others crazy because if opposes something 90% of the older members will also oppose it. I would seek to ease him out of the club or at least out of a position of power but few in the club are willing or able to be the county club delegate and few would do some of the things he does and I don't live in the county any more so I can't get that involved.

I've just realized I'm rambling a bit here but what I'm trying to say is that although many in Cork want to see the back of Frank, he is also a very capable GAA politician and gives Cork great clout on a national level and despite his faults there probably isn't anyone in Cork who would be even close to being able to replace him as secretary at the moment. He holds great influence in Cork and any moves to remove him would be met with serious resistance but power has corrupted him in my opinion and he is sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, he is not used to people standing up to him and he can't seem to let 2002 go. If he just allowed the IC teams to get on with their business without interference, things would be fine IMO.

Correct on the first point and I've also seen someone powerful and influential like John Bailey removed (though not at all in the same league as FM) - Bailey ran for Chair again this year and was aghast to find delegates who would have been Bailey diehards giving him the bumsrush this year.

I take your point though on the favours built up over years - he's there more than 35 years at this stage so it'd be hard to remove him alright - he's due for retirement this year though isn't he so why not just wait it out?

On the point of your delegate - would he not receive his mandate from the executive and be sanctioned if he deviated from that?

[Zulu]

I take your point though on the favours built up over years - he's there more than 35 years at this stage so it'd be hard to remove him alright - he's due for retirement this year though isn't he so why not just wait it out

I could be wrong on this but I've heard he is getting special dispensation to stay on until he is 70, anyway he can't finish this year as you'd surely need to train someone in especially for a county as big as Cork and that isn't being done as far as I know.

On the point of your delegate - would he not receive his mandate from the executive and be sanctioned if he deviated from that?

Nope, generally most club members are kept in the dark about what is going on and the club is being run by a small few who will ride rough shod over the views of those who they disagree with. Indeed a few, myself included, are being forced out of the club by a small minority. I'll give you an example, I've been involved in training Sigerson teams, senior club football and was asked to take the county minor football team this year (couldn't do it as I live too far away) but I was willing to move back home for the summer to take our U16 football team, when i rang our secretary to put my name forward i was told that last years selectors wanted to do it again so there was no point. Now these guys do the hurling as well and are only interested in hurling but because the club is run by their manager and a few others i wasn't even seriously considered. That is why I've little time for the democracy in the GAA because in truth it isn't true democracy.

[orangeman]

The 2008 Cork hurlers have released a statement today outlining their intent to hold a press conference in the near future.


The statement reads: 'Due to the length and complexities of the statements issued by Gerald McCarthy and the Cork County Board on Tuesday and the gravity of the situation, the Cork Senior Hurling panel of 2008 has decided to hold a press conference to deal, in detail, with all of the issues involved in the coming days.'


Details of arrangements will follow when confirmed.

[NAG]

That shoud be good value, but I would say that with their friends in the media the players will box pretty clever on this one and have a well prepared statement.

Although with the other statements this week I dont see the point in them doing anything other than going back to their clubs and get on with life without hurling county hurling.