McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

Reillers I think a lack of realism is a problem here and you've pretty much summed it up in points 1 and 2.

Cork have some very talented hurlers however you underestimate Kilkenny. Kilkenny are quite simply awesome. Cork, at full power, IMO would not get within ten points of them. KK's minor team is the worst you've seen in a long time? What - the worst to win the AI minor title? So because KK hadn't the best minor team ever to win the AI, yes win the AI!, they haven't as much to come through as we thought they had. There are subs on that KK team who would walk on the best Cork 15 with the best manager in the land. TJ Reid is better than any young player coming through from Cork and he can't get on the team!

You also exude arrogance with regard to Tipperary - who are no strangers to arrogance themselves. Cork should have beat Tipp this year however, with or without McCarthy, the dominant force in Munster of the next 5 - 10 years will be Tipp. The standard of their young players is also much superior to yours.

Sully og, Cronin and Horgan wouldn't get near a KK panel. O'Neill is decent and would but the rest wouldn't.

If the players share the same opinion as you it's little wonder they're in the pickle they're in. You have a superb half back line, good corner backs, a good midfield and one or two good forwards. Compare that to Kilkenny - they've about 8 good forwards, a superb midfield,, HB line, FB line.

You have dillusions of grandure and that post summed it up.

They shouldn't have beaten Galway but got lucky.
I guarantee you if coached right the U21 Cork team will win the final, like we should have last season.
The standard of Cork hurlers is excellent, we just have no youth set up. Sars is a perfect example of what's to come.
Clearly the kids, the young fellas wouldn't get near the KK team at the minute, they are no where near developed..McCarthy's fault. They are so far off where they need to be but have so much potential. Sully Og can be one of the best players this countrys seen in a long time, but I most ask where did you seen him play??

I never said we were better then KK. Never once. But we do have some excellent youth there that can beat about anyone except KK, if we were properlly coached and had the excellent youth set up like KK then we would be winning AIs.
It's a structure, the system and the manager who is standing in front of success.

[imtommygunn]

Even Tipp? Wouldn't be so sure about that... Actually put Galway in there but that's just underage.

Is Sully og the corner forward - Diarmuid's brother? If not I don't know him and am mistaken on him.

Cronin and Naughton for me are definitely two boys who have not set the world alight. Give Naughton space he'll be good yes. Give him a defense like KKs he's nowhere.  They're not in the calibre of, for example, TJ Reid. In fact Eoin Reid is also probably better. O'Neill is a good corner back but you need more than good corner backs coming through.

[Reillers]

1- You won't be doing any winning for a while with or without those players. You'll get used to losing reillers, believe me we've had plenty of practice at it.the arrogance will wear off believe me. .

With this team we are waiting for it, with the players like Cathal Naughton, I don't think so, who IMO should have gotten HOTY Og, he was consistantly excellent all season, Canning is a force but for one game, they don't usually give out awards for one game, but with Canning they make an exception, and it hasn't worn off Dublin now has it.

2- I know a lot about Cork hurling and I know those players wouldn't get on the kilkenny team. How many Cork players would Kilkenny want. Outside the O Connors and Kenny the rest wouldn't get a sniff. So in other words they aren't to win anything anytime soon. Oh sorry you might win the odd munster championship depending on Tipp but as for all-irelands, it'll be taking up permanent residence in the centre of Ireland

Of course they wont not now, but in a season or two, the likes of Sully Og, Naughton, Horgan..massive potential. More so then Tipp. There is so much potential there, so much talented youth, but no structure. Tipp can't nor will they convert their success at the youth scene. Something which up till late Cork never have had a problem with. Like I said, if you've got some spare money lying around put it on the U21 Cork team. Cork should have beaten Galway in the minors, and would have beaten KK in the final, and as for the U21, the loss that they suffered reflects how piss poor the youth system is in Cork, should have won the AI final as well, and will be favs or favs about for the AI final this year as well. You said you know alot about Cork hurling, if you do why are you making comments like you are? You'd know that there's massive potential there, surely if you know as much as you claim.

And did you see the KK minor final, how poor they were, one of the analysis lads even said it, that it was the poorest Kilkenny team they've seen in a long time, they robbed Galway who fell asleep at the end.

No one but Cork can stop KK, it's been said and it's something I stood by till this mess happened, I honestly believed that the young lads who were supposed to come through could give this team the freshening up that it's needed.

3- Your response speaks volumes. You know the score down there. Some guys are a little bit peeved they have to work a 9-5 like the general population. Despite all the perks its never enough for some of them. If they wanted to be professionals they should have played professional sport. They should take a look at some of the other top players from other counties and see how they conduct themselves.

You don't know that, you don't know the players, so why post like you do? Oh like Waterford? Cork are the most professional team in the GAA and this is why they are in the position they are in, because they expected to much of the GAA, of the CB. Or maybe KK, why not, sure we'd only have to play one game a year wouldn't that be great or Tipp, give me a break.

4- Democracy is democracy reillers , michael collins should have thought you guys that. Democracy providers the rules which normal society operates and which assoications derive their rules from. if you don't like these rules , go elsewhere. The gaa has its rules which everyone signs up to.It doesn't have an appendix at the back specially designed for the Cork hurlers. If you don't like the rules go and play somewhere else.
Or better still get the striking hurlers to form their own competition which they can play in themselves. Then they 'll be forever ALL-Ireland champions. Well in their own world anyway.

Democracy in the GAA is a completley different thing. You know that, it's a flawed system.

[Reillers]

Even Tipp? Wouldn't be so sure about that... Actually put Galway in there but that's just underage.

Is Sully og the corner forward - Diarmuid's brother? If not I don't know him and am mistaken on him.

Cronin and Naughton for me are definitely two boys who have not set the world alight. Give Naughton space he'll be good yes. Give him a defense like KKs he's nowhere.  They're not in the calibre of, for example, TJ Reid. In fact Eoin Reid is also probably better. O'Neill is a good corner back but you need more than good corner backs coming through.

Galway like Tipp can't convert their success.
Sully Og is Sully's younger brother. Massive potential, potential to be the best in the game one day.
Cronin wasn't that all impressive last season but he started coming through at the end and Naughton isn't anywhere near the finished article. The way he cut through Tipp like they were butter was no fluke, the way his first game, his first touch of the ball against Waterford as a sub was a point and a goal that won us the game, he was the consistant and excellent for us all season and was nominated for HOTY og, something I think would have been fair to give him.

And of course he couldn't really cut through the KK defence, but name me a player who could. The young lads of KK have had excellent support and training and management, the Cork youth team hasn't, they're not prepared or helped or looked after, they are a reflection of the set up.

There are so much potential there, it's just a matter of whether it's coached propperly, but by the look of things now, I doubt it.

Bring on the footballers this year.

I mean moulded right and some of these kids would be unstopable. Like Horgan he's so raw, so talented but if that was harnessed and moulded he'd be such an excellent player.

[imtommygunn]

I don't know your basis for your Tipp comment there. The good minor teams Tipp had are only coming through now. They won Munster an f**ked up against Waterford. They, like anyone else, would have been annihilated by KK.

Looking at stats the last time before that when they won it was 1996. AI winners 2001 if I'm correct.(Round taht time anyway).  So I think you're way of the mark with that comment unless you refer to the u21s which doesn't always mean anything.

Incidentally Cork, for all their great young players, haven't won anything since 2001 in underage and it was three years before that they won anything. Not exactly damning statistics for this talent you talk about.

[realrebel]

reillers
do you know what time the players statement is coming out
they said tonight didnt they
any news?

[INDIANA]

Even though you're an arrogant twat at times Reillers I admire your resolve I really do. But you're wrong on this one, fatally wrong.

1- One player won't do it. He's a fine hurler he really is, but he'd struggle and In my view wouldn't make the kilkenny team. For every Naughton Cork have, kilkenny have five.

2- There isn't massive potential there Reillers. Your clubs are struggling in certain areas, your underage record isn't good by Cork standards recently and the standard of your county championship isn't as good as it was. Its a mirror image of dublin football in many ways. If you think Cork fielding a 3rd string whatever the circumstances is going to improve things Its not. Nothing promotes a sport than a good senior team.
No-one can stop kilkenny except Tipperary Reillers, it won't be Cork I'm afraid. Tipp have the underage pedigree and through sheer force of numbers they'll ratttle kilkenny soon enough. cork need to rebuild but I believe this will put the rebuilding back a decade.

3- The Gaa is an amateur organisation reillers. there are limits it can extend to. Those rules don't have a special appendix designated for the Cork hurlers. If working within those parameters is such a problem , they should have played something else. But they could show a hell of a lot of more flexibility to the Cork people who have followed them all over the country to watch them , and feted them like they were heroes when they won titles. But no, me fein is all that counts within that squad.

4- Democracy is what is elected. The cork county board were elected by the clubs they represent, the same as the other 31 counties. I do not accept all 200 clubs in Cork are idiots. You may not like Fianna Fail, but you'll have to put up with them until a majority of people want them out of government.

[Reillers]

Even though you're an arrogant t**t at times Reillers I admire your resolve I really do. But you're wrong on this one, fatally wrong.

1- One player won't do it. He's a fine hurler he really is, but he'd struggle and In my view wouldn't make the kilkenny team. For every Naughton Cork have, kilkenny have five.

Why are you comparing him to KK. No one can be compared to KK and to compare a very young lad who hasn't been around long to KK isn't fair.

2- There isn't massive potential there Reillers. Your clubs are struggling in certain areas, your underage record isn't good by Cork standards recently and the standard of your county championship isn't as good as it was. Its a mirror image of dublin football in many ways. If you think Cork fielding a 3rd string whatever the circumstances is going to improve things Its not. Nothing promotes a sport than a good senior team.
No-one can stop kilkenny except Tipperary Reillers, it won't be Cork I'm afraid. Tipp have the underage pedigree and through sheer force of numbers they'll ratttle kilkenny soon enough. cork need to rebuild but I believe this will put the rebuilding back a decade.

True, the underage record isn't good but it doesn't mean that the players aren't there. Cork were one of the favs last year to win the final. The lack of success isn't down to lack of talent it's the structure that has cost us.
Tipp wont stop KK, they don't have the players, they've talented youth but wont be able to convert it, Cork will beat KK and win a final before Tipp do with the current team we have now, they bottle it, all the time. Just like Waterford. Now I think we wont win anything for a long time, but with the team we should have had I would have said next season if the team was built properlly. You said you knew about Cork hurling..if you did why are you saying and asking things that are obvious to any well informed Cork fan. You're not making much sense. You make statments that are pollar opposites to the truth but at the same time you say you know a lot about Cork hurling.


3- The Gaa is an amateur organisation reillers. there are limits it can extend to. Those rules don't have a special appendix designated for the Cork hurlers. If working within those parameters is such a problem , they should have played something else. But they could show a hell of a lot of more flexibility to the Cork people who have followed them all over the country to watch them , and feted them like they were heroes when they won titles. But no, me fein is all that counts within that squad.

In a way O Grady caused this, he set standards so high..And again you say you know about Cork hurling and the players and you make a statement like that.

4- Democracy is what is elected. The cork county board were elected by the clubs they represent, the same as the other 31 counties. I do not accept all 200 clubs in Cork are idiots. You may not like Fianna Fail, but you'll have to put up with them until a majority of people want them out of government.

Every GAA fan knows that democracy in the GAA isn't democracy.

Frank wasn't elected now was he, he's the problem. The vote, the voice of the people, it doesn't affect him, he is untouchable and until he's gone Cork will continue to fall behind.

[imtommygunn]

Can you please show me some examples of when Tipp have bottled it??

What - this year against Waterford?? They're a young team. They're coming of the back of 2006 and 2007 minor teams - the oldest of that is 21. One result is excusable.

You're kidding yourself here.

[Reillers]

Can you please show me some examples of when Tipp have bottled it??

What - this year against Waterford?? They're a young team. They're coming of the back of 2006 and 2007 minor teams - the oldest of that is 21. One result is excusable.

You're kidding yourself here.

They bottled it this year and had in the past.
Oh so youth is an exceptable answer for Tipp but not for Cork. Typical.

[imtommygunn]

I compared your players to the like of TJ Reid a youngster.

O'Brien, Callinane and McGrath are also a cut above some of your young players.

The players you had this year weren't youngsters - nor were they in the previous couple of years KK won it.

Anyway I would like to see Cork do well and your arrogance here maybe shows why you have done well. Though you are kidding yourself here. You really are. You don't have near the talent at your disposal you think you have.

[Reillers]

I compared your players to the like of TJ Reid a youngster.

O'Brien, Callinane and McGrath are also a cut above some of your young players.

The players you had this year weren't youngsters - nor were they in the previous couple of years KK won it.

Anyway I would like to see Cork do well and your arrogance here maybe shows why you have done well. Though you are kidding yourself here. You really are. You don't have near the talent at your disposal you think you have.

No the players this year weren't youngsters KK were better then the team we put out, an ageing team that could have come closer then 10 points if it wasn't for the patetic, suicidal puck out system. KK were probably laughing their heads off, probabl couldn't believe how easy we made it for them. Not to mention the subs that were made, for Christ sake like.

You've not seen much of the minor games have you or U21s last season?
Have you ever seen Sully Og play?
Conor O'sullivan, Barry Johnson. Super hurlers.
White, Clifford, Dara Mul hasn't got that much pace but is a bully of a FB and a hell of a leader.
The Kearney's from Sars.
A massive list of goalkeepers, the talent there is unbelievable in that position alone. Darren McCarthy would be my first pick.
William Egan deserves a shout on the panel..somewhere.
Paudie O'Sullivan no doubt about him.
Jack Herlihy, John o callaghan, Cornor O Driscoll.-Not a bad FB line.
Lorcán McGloughlin, Stephen White, Tomas Murray
Mannix, Dan o Callaghan, Leahy, Joe Moran, Eoghan Cronin, Rob O Driscoll, Pat Barry, Cremin, Desmond, Corry....
Pa Horgan, Corry, Gould, Eoin cronin                                              
Steven Corcoran, Dorris, Colm o Neil, Stephen MacDonal

Ciaran Sheehan, now this player I could rave about all day, he was thought to be going to the same club that Santy is at but thankfully hasn't gone, he's what the seniors are missing. He's well able to win clean bull, with ease, he's strong and was well able to break a tackle, he's well able to run with the ball and ball in hand, he's got pace to burn. His decision making isn't great, either is his accuracy at times but that comes with experience and age. It will definitely improve with time, accuracy is more of an issue as it is a natural talent, he can become a great player if he's willing to put in the hard work. The thought of him playing and linking up with the likes Hoggie or Sully Og is something I'd love to see. He's an excellent prospect the one thing that will stop him from being great is the AFL. Now Indiana if you've been in Cork recently you'd know there's some serious buzz about this guy and the U21 team this season. And that was just with minors, he's moving up the grade this year.

I haven't even named half of the players there.
But whatever about the team, the question is the management.
I can, I can go on, but I don't really want to because I'll be here all night. I've seen a lot of these players play and a lot have great potential. Who here of the critics have seen more then 5 of these lads play, (not including the senior ones.) Hell have you seen any of the other players play? I doubt it.

It would be no harm at all if we had no senior team, just  the Intermediate, U-21 and Minor, and use those 3 teams as the future. It would be a hell lot more productive. The kids we have now would learn a hell lot more in the U21s then they will being humiliated on the big stage.

And the U21s will probably be without the senior boys, apparently the CB aren't allowing them play.

[imtommygunn]

I don't profess to be an expert on Cork hurling,particularly underage, but if these players were as good as you believe where are your titles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Under-21_Hurling_Championship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Minor_Hurling_Championship

I saw your U21s semi and final in 2007. Yes they were good but they didn't win. Mainly due to Joe Canning might I add. Also you have pointed to a KK minor team who weren't great but did win the AI. What does that say about a team you perceive to be great and couldn't win an AI?

I also thought Cadogan was the best of what you had.

You're getting carried away - you are seeing these guys stand out in Cork. They can't be as outstanding elsewhere or you'd be winning all irelands. What I know or don't know doesn't come into it. Look at the above stats and they speak for themselves.

Good players - no doubt. Great players - that can't be answered because very much unproven but all evidence points to Tipp, KK and Galways young players being better.

[INDIANA]

Thats exactly my point tommy. Cork will always have some very good hurlers but kilkenny won all 4 all-ireland titles for a reason last year. Because they are the best at the moment. Tipp have proven in recent years to be better than cork at underage and that will eventually manifest itself at senior level over the coming 2 seasons.
Look Reillers I could draw parellels between all those players and kilkenny and tipp have better underage players at the moment. Tipp have brought through the likes of callinan, they have the mahers, noel mc grath, stapelton etc. these guys were better than the guys you've named at underage and I'll argue that all day.
By fielding a 3rd string this year, and all you're doing is making Munster Rugby's job in Cork very easy for the next year. you're not seriously going to sugggest to me that the Cork SHC is anything like it was are you?
Don't kid yourselves into thinking hurling in Cork is at a crossroads, because by the time you finally admit all is not well. It'll be too late.

[Reillers]

You most understand here now.
2007 was two years ago and that's a long time in the GAA scene, especially at U21s and Minors. Last seasons team should have been in the finals of each and should have won. The only thing that stood in the way was not the lack of talent, it wouldn't be so infuriating if it was, but the set up, the management, their was poor, the players attitude was poor, the Clare game was a joke, they should have beaten Clare out the gate, but they played like they didn't give two shites, a reflection on how the CB feels about them, and that excuse that a lot of the players were playing with the seniors the day before against Galway just doesn't wash.
This recent squad both U21s and Minors have great potential, but will probably be fucked over by the lack of managment they have, skill can only get you so far on your own. The Minors won the Munster final last season and should have won the AI final. But they were knocked out in the semis by Galway for the same reason Cork lost to Clare, they didn't play half as well as they can, no heart, no fight.
The strangle hold on Cork GAA is being felt the most on the underage level. The talent is there but it's being treated, the lads are being treated shockingly. If they had half the support that KK had, there'd be a hell lot more in the cabinet.