McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

It doesn't tell us anything we don't already know as far as i can see.

The bit that surprised me on it was the Cork man saying that either the Cork public will look for the strikers to be brought in again after heavy defeats OR they will turn on the strikers and blame them for the mess they're in.

You lads were reckoning on the supporters turning on Mc Carthy.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Don't think he can be said to be speaking for the masses there OM, he's only one individual

[orangeman]

Don't think he can be said to be speaking for the masses there OM, he's only one individual

I undertand that but he was putting across a view that few on here had envisaged.

[Reillers]

Because while that might wash for a while for a few, it's most likely that it'll be the other option. The entire blame will fall on McCarthy's lap eventually for the trashings and he'll be gone.

While x might turn around and say it's the players fault we're in this mess, they'll want the mess sorted..they know that the only people who can get us out of it is the players themselves and they'll take that. Because peoples principles, their views will slowly become irrelevant when we start getting humiliated. This is Cork..Cork doesn't do humiliated well, we don't do humiliated full stop. Do you think that x the Cork fan would rather that we keep getting trashed and humiliated because he supported Gerald in the fight..he will not. Look at the Saipan incident. There were Keane v McCarthy splits up and down this country, people didn't talk to eachother for months. But after the WC when things started to go pear shape there was a massive call to get Keane back and all before hand was forgotten, forgiven or atleast put aside because we win with Roy Keane. Without him Ireland was a lesser team and no one, no matter what side they were on could say that they didn't want Keane back, could say that Ireland were better off without him or said that it's his fault we were in the position we were in. The Irish crowd after a match, started chanting KEANO, all of the crowd, and within a short time McCarthy was sacked, pretty much branded an idiot, his fault we were in the mess we were in, nobody cared how good a player McCarthy was, it was now right here, right now is all they cared about.   

The same to an extent will happen with the hurlers and Gerald.

At the end of the day Gerald McCarthy was a legend of a player, but that's history, and as much of a legend of a player he was, iisn't going to help us on the field, he doesn't play anymore and he's a terrible manager who has made some really bad mistakes.
A hero of his time, of the old generation, yes. But the people now, well it's more then possible, it's probable that the public will want their heroes of now to come back, forgive, forget or put it aside.
No matter what their opinion is now, in a few weeks/months when we get a trashing by Dublin, peoples opinions will sway, the question will be formed, and loyalties will be questioned.
Who can fix the problem? Not McCarthy, he's a manager, a poor one at that, even his supporters in this know that, but the players, they can fix it, they can come back..and with them we can win.
How many Cork supporters were alive to see Gerald play, not as many who have seen the current Cork players play.

In a few weeks time peoples opinion will change completley and all this, this will be pointless. We're waiting on something that should be inevidable. Personally, we all know it's going to happen, so I hope for all involved it happens fast.

[orangeman]

So what's your prediction Reillers ? That Cork will get beat out the gates in the first few league matches and that public pressure will lead to the CB sacking Mc Carthy, appoint a new manager, the strikers will return and all will be rosy in the strikers' garden again ?

[INDIANA]

I don't agree entirely. I think some of the players will never be forgiven by the fans for this and you underestimate how much of a legend Mc Carthy is. Sure he'll cop some flak but not as much as some of the players
No self respecting mangager will ever take the reins as long as donal og, sean og, gardiner etc are involved. Either way this is the end of their inter county careers.
Hopefully lads like pat Horgan, Cronin, Shane O Neill etc will be back soon to lead Cork into a new era and put this sorry mess behind them.

[Reillers]

So what's your prediction Reillers ? That Cork will get beat out the gates in the first few league matches and that public pressure will lead to the CB sacking Mc Carthy, appoint a new manager, the strikers will return and all will be rosy in the strikers' garden again ?

It should happen. But with this CB..

[Reillers]

I don't agree entirely. I think some of the players will never be forgiven by the fans for this and you underestimate how much of a legend Mc Carthy is. Sure he'll cop some flak but not as much as some of the players
No self respecting mangager will ever take the reins as long as donal og, sean og, gardiner etc are involved. Either way this is the end of their inter county careers.
Hopefully lads like pat Horgan, Cronin, Shane O Neill etc will be back soon to lead Cork into a new era and put this sorry mess behind them.

WAS..McCarthy was a legend of a player. That's no disrespect, he doesn't play anymore. That's all. Joe Deane, is still little Deano, Ben and Jerry are still the twins, Sully's still the Rock and ya Donal Og will get grief but there's not a day when he doesn't. They are legends and as far as the general Cork public go, it's only a matter of time before they'll be wanted back. And maybe Donal Og and a few others wont come back. Maybe they shouldn't. But there'll be a cry for them after a few humiliations.

No I don't think so. He was a legend, the players are legends. Present tense, and all this can be put behind them, and will be by the fans. Now maybe the first few times they play, they might get a bit of grief but that'll fade in a while, it'll be nothing to the extent that Gerald gets after the public get sick of listening to excuses, true or not, about why Cork lost and how good of an effort the players put in and they're only learning, that might wash in Carlow or Cavan, but in Cork..we wont be able to stand it for long.

Nothing means as much in Cork as hurling does. And while the players may take some of the blame for a while, when Cork start to get hammered by the likes of Dublin, people wont really care how good Gerald was 20/30 odd years ago as a player, and like I said, most Cork fans today will never have seen him play and with the exception of the old fellas in the bar talking about the good old days, there's only so much of a legend status that can rub off on you from reading books and such, but these players, the fans have seen them play, which means a hell lot more, that their hearts will lie with them, the bond will be a lot tighter.
All the fans will care about is the now.
Even loosing to KK was embarasing and that's with this team, we hate to loose, and I don't think you get how much, the word second best, it just sends shivers down the spine. I had to turn the tv of everytime the Sports News came on. And that was against KK.
Now if Cork are getting hammered by teams like Dublin and Tipp that they should beat easily, it'll be a hundred times worse.
You think that Cork fans, who can't stand being called second best will really except the hammering we'll get with these guys.

[johnneycool]

So what's your prediction Reillers ? That Cork will get beat out the gates in the first few league matches and that public pressure will lead to the CB sacking Mc Carthy, appoint a new manager, the strikers will return and all will be rosy in the strikers' garden again ?

It should happen. But with this CB..

Even if McCarthy did get the boot after a few bad beatings, would that be enough for the strikers considering that Frank would still be in control or would he have to tender his resignation or be offered early retirement to appease the old squad?

With Frank being the organ grinder, surely he has to go as well, no?

[Reillers]

So what's your prediction Reillers ? That Cork will get beat out the gates in the first few league matches and that public pressure will lead to the CB sacking Mc Carthy, appoint a new manager, the strikers will return and all will be rosy in the strikers' garden again ?

It should happen. But with this CB..

Even if McCarthy did get the boot after a few bad beatings, would that be enough for the strikers considering that Frank would still be in control or would he have to tender his resignation or be offered early retirement to appease the old squad?

With Frank being the organ grinder, surely he has to go as well, no?

What should happen and what will happen in Cork, but that's the CCB for ya.

[orangeman]

Reillers, does the situation not become a bit more complicated if 7/8 of the young lads go back and the results go ok for the team. There might be a temptation amongst supporters to say, these lads are doing the job, the strikers have served us well in the past, but the past is the past, they're no good to us now, we should move on without them and we're nearly better off without the fighting etc ?

[johnneycool]

So what's your prediction Reillers ? That Cork will get beat out the gates in the first few league matches and that public pressure will lead to the CB sacking Mc Carthy, appoint a new manager, the strikers will return and all will be rosy in the strikers' garden again ?

It should happen. But with this CB..

Even if McCarthy did get the boot after a few bad beatings, would that be enough for the strikers considering that Frank would still be in control or would he have to tender his resignation or be offered early retirement to appease the old squad?

With Frank being the organ grinder, surely he has to go as well, no?

What should happen and what will happen in Cork, but that's the CCB for ya.

Now I know you are not a player    but have inside knowledge of the issues, so would McCarthy stepping aside be enough for the strikers or does Frank need to fall on his sword as well?

I know Frank leaving other than on his terms is unlikely so I'm wondering does it really matter if McCarthy goes as the players won't be happy with whoever manages the team as long as Frank holds office. Am I correct?

Is there a possibility or scenario that the strikers would still play for Cork and Frank hold his job?

[INDIANA]

Thats exactly what I've heard Johnny

I don't agree entirely. I think some of the players will never be forgiven by the fans for this and you underestimate how much of a legend Mc Carthy is. Sure he'll cop some flak but not as much as some of the players
No self respecting mangager will ever take the reins as long as donal og, sean og, gardiner etc are involved. Either way this is the end of their inter county careers.
Hopefully lads like pat Horgan, Cronin, Shane O Neill etc will be back soon to lead Cork into a new era and put this sorry mess behind them.

WAS..McCarthy was a legend of a player. That's no disrespect, he doesn't play anymore. That's all. Joe Deane, is still little Deano, Ben and Jerry are still the twins, Sully's still the Rock and ya Donal Og will get grief but there's not a day when he doesn't. They are legends and as far as the general Cork public go, it's only a matter of time before they'll be wanted back. And maybe Donal Og and a few others wont come back. Maybe they shouldn't. But there'll be a cry for them after a few humiliations.

No I don't think so. He was a legend, the players are legends. Present tense, and all this can be put behind them, and will be by the fans. Now maybe the first few times they play, they might get a bit of grief but that'll fade in a while, it'll be nothing to the extent that Gerald gets after the public get sick of listening to excuses, true or not, about why Cork lost and how good of an effort the players put in and they're only learning, that might wash in Carlow or Cavan, but in Cork..we wont be able to stand it for long.

Nothing means as much in Cork as hurling does. And while the players may take some of the blame for a while, when Cork start to get hammered by the likes of Dublin, people wont really care how good Gerald was 20/30 odd years ago as a player, and like I said, most Cork fans today will never have seen him play and with the exception of the old fellas in the bar talking about the good old days, there's only so much of a legend status that can rub off on you from reading books and such, but these players, the fans have seen them play, which means a hell lot more, that their hearts will lie with them, the bond will be a lot tighter.
All the fans will care about is the now.
Even loosing to KK was embarasing and that's with this team, we hate to loose, and I don't think you get how much, the word second best, it just sends shivers down the spine. I had to turn the tv of everytime the Sports News came on. And that was against KK.
Now if Cork are getting hammered by teams like Dublin and Tipp that they should beat easily, it'll be a hundred times worse.
You think that Cork fans, who can't stand being called second best will really except the hammering we'll get with these guys.

Thats the crux Reillers for me. Those guys you name will never be invited back under a new manager. Not a bloody hope, unless the manager is another patsy. No quality inter county proven manager will ever go in with those guys again. Some of those guys will never play for Cork again. Mightn't be a bad thing either. It needs a clean slate.
The other thing as well is I doubt Frank Murphy will back down on this. And as you and I both know fully well Reillers, thats the real issue. the Mc Carthy issue is besides the point and in a way is a smokescreen for the real issue , which is.
Frank v the players.

[orangeman]

Corkscrewed
21 January 2009


The latest Cork GAA dispute has ended dramatically, with the striking players effectively frozen out.

Events took a sudden turn on Tuesday night, January 20, when the dissenting Rebel players declared that they were NOT prepared to take part in clear-the-air negotiations next week.

Members of the 2008 squad have insisted all along that they will not play under McCarthy. In the end, the County Board has lost its patience with their entrenched stance and has decided to call their bluff.
McCarthy and the County Board have therefore vowed to move on WITHOUT the players, working instead with the current crop at the manager's disposal as well as anyone else who declares an interest in pulling on the red shirt in 2009.

As far as the County Board is concerned, the issue is settled, the matter is closed, and they are not prepared to enter into any future negotiations with the 2008 players, who now find themselves in a 'take it or leave it' situation.

The players have been playing a dangerous game, effectively holding a gun at the County Board's head for three months, and the Rebel executive has now dramatically turned the tables.

Things came to a head last night when the players withdrew from proposed crisis talks involving themselves, the County Board, Gerald McCarthy and his backroom team, and independent mediator Olann Kellegher. McCarthy and the Board responded by pulling the plug on their fruitless efforts to reach a compromise.

As all of Cork's star names have effectively ruled themselves out, the only option facing Cork GAA now is to proceed with a second-string panel in 2009.


Is it a case of calling the strikers' bluff or is it end of the road ?

[Reillers]

Reillers, does the situation not become a bit more complicated if 7/8 of the young lads go back and the results go ok for the team. There might be a temptation amongst supporters to say, these lads are doing the job, the strikers have served us well in the past, but the past is the past, they're no good to us now, we should move on without them and we're nearly better off without the fighting etc ?

I'm not pshycic, what might or might not happen, you can't predict it, no one can.
Do I think the young lads could and maybe should come back for themselves, ya. I think that they fought with their team, they did what was asked but now, if they continue to train they might ask what's the point or if it stops they could well go back because it is like a bug and it's something that you can't live without and the younger players especially will suffer because atleast most of the other team have 3 AI finals in their pockets. The kids just got a taste of it.
I don't think they'd be begrudged for going back, they fought the fight, they did what was asked of them.

If 7/8 of the young lads come back, it would be good but ya complicate opinions, but still there will be defeats either way, it wont be 7/8, 3/4 maybe but that wont really make that much of a difference, there will be defeats and lots of them because McCarthy is a bad manager and will be worse with this team because his tactics, selections and training was poor with the old team but they could survive on basic skills and beats that were poorer then them on pure street wise skill and savy and experience, they out ran them, that's how they McCarthy's tactics, with pace. But when we met KK, we couldn't out savy them, no amount of experience of running could beat them because what we have they have, but they've a better manager who's capabale of managing a winning team.

So what's going to happen with these lads who have known of the above and who will play the game like McCarthy told them and wont deviate when needed to, they've no experience, not a lot of skill compared to every other top intercounty team and no savy that you learn from years of playing at the highest level under top class managers.
They will take what McCarthy says as THE WORD and they will suffer massively for it.