McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

zulu
can i ask u what ur thoughts are on with the players meeting with the ccb and management
i hear now they dont want teddy mac there either beause he was a selector with the footballlers last year
are they actually going to talk to anyone or are they again trying to run the show and tell the ccb who they will and wont talk to

Surely you know better then most on here that the CB are, well no one supports them, there are two sides in this arguement when it comes to the fans in Cork, the players or Gerald, but you'll find it very very difficult to find a person who backs the CB and who can think

The panel want to know more info about the meeting before they agreed to it. But it is likely they'll meet.
The players aren't trying to run things, they just don't want to, waste their time for a pointless meeting that has no point or solution as has happened in meetings before and they don't want to feel threatened. They don't want to run things blind.

What are the issues the players need resolved Reillers ? Have they moved from their long stated position of never playing for Mc Carthy ? Is Teddy Mac now a stumbling block ?.

As I said earlier, the strikers have tortured over this dispute for so long now, they're starting to find it difficult to see the wood for the trees !

[Tatler Jack]

Surely you know better then most on here that the CB are, well no one supports them, there are two sides in this arguement when it comes to the fans in Cork, the players or Gerald, but you'll find it very very difficult to find a person who backs the CB and who can think

Reillers can you clarify what you mean exactly when you refer to the County Board. Do you mean the officers (executive) or executive plus the delegates from the Intermediate and Senior Clubs who attend the regular board meetings. Or are you just referring to the County Secretary?

[orangeman]

There appears to be a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel in the ongoing Cork hurling strike.

Cork's hurling panel have made themselves unavailable for selection in a long-standing row over the appointment of Gerald McCarthy as manager.

However, players have asked for 'more information' about a proposed meeting with the County Board Executive and the Cork management team, led by McCarthy.

The invitation to talks came last week from county board chairman Jerry O'Sullivan, father of senior stars Diarmuid and Paidi.

While the players have not yet agreed to sit around the same table as the manager they are refusing to play under this season, they have indicated to RTÉ that it looks likely they will attend a meeting this week.

[theskull1]

Of course they can and will play for their clubs but this Cork squad is like a club team and these boys shouldn't be forced out by CB manipulation. Democracy is fine but when you have administrators hiding behind the democratic process when they are in fact manipulating the system rather than working within it then you are justified using other means IMO.

So they can still play with their clubs therefore keep playing the game they love. Great there's that sorted. So the 2008 panel feel like a club team.....hmmmmm. Thats very strange. The obviously feel they collectively have a devine right to the jersey. And who is forcing them out other than themselves. And those very same administrator(s) have also manipulated the sytem to suit the cork players on countless other occasions...you can't have it both way Zulu. Youse may still not have liked him but there was no Cork man lambasting FM at those times so why so principled now. Double standards me thinks.

zulu
I guess the players have to talk with the CB and management but I don't see how this will resolve anything. The CB have repeatedly shown that their motivation is putting the players back in their box and the management team is a non runner as far as this squad is concerned. I don't know what Teddy Mac's motivation is, he has now joined two management teams (in different codes) while they have been in dispute with the players. I personally wouldn't play for him nor would I ever ask him to be a selector if I was coach of a Cork team. I've coached a few teams and the one thing you have to have to be successful is you all have to be pulling in the same direction, which implies trust between the players and the management, this will never occur with Gerald/Teddy and these players. If the players went back under the current management team I'd predict some of the worst displays seen by a Cork team in many years, the only reason Galway didn't beat Cork last year was because Donal Og was sent off, they wouldn't have shown that fight for Gerald IMO. You'd have to question Geralds desire to get these players back after he made Teddy Mac a selector.

That really gets on my goat Zulu. How can you say that and know it? Because Ben O'Connor (I think) said it? That means the collective didn't have their own pride in the jersey to respond? Was there any word of them doing it for their own self respect as a hurler when they were on the pitch? And while we're at it, I can say hand on heart that I have never played a second half of hurling to claw back and win for any manager and I worked with a few...good and bad. When I played and trained for the team, and when we won we ALL celebrated and when we lost we didn't go looking to blame the management....we took responsibility because it was in us to win and we didn't....too easy to pick targets outside the social group that is the 2008 Cork County Club hurling panel and try and humilate him into resigning whenever the results don't go your way. Thank god GMcC is man enough to stand up for himself.

[Reillers]

Skull, I don't know if you do it on purpose, (OM does it as well, all the time actually) but you tend to simplyify things to such a level where things are either black or white. Now I don't know if it something ye (and obviously you can only speak for yourself) are using it for your argument, or it's what you actual believe and if this is the case then one day you'll realise that life isn't that simple or that black and white.

And ye also take things so litterally and at times with you, (all the time with OM) out of context.

The players, each and everyone of them have earned that jersey. They've fought for it just like every other player in every other county.
Not like these kids, fair play to them for playing but they didn't earn the jerseys, not in the same way. Not with the hunger that players have for it who are on the panel. They haven't fought for it, they haven't made the sacrifices that come a long with it.

Like for instance one of the young lads, I'm not going to mention who, goes out nearly every Thursday night, since he's joined up with this team, that hasn't stopped and some say they saw him on the piss about 3 days before his game. Grant it, he's an 18/19 year old college lad on a Thursday night, that's normal, but not 3 or 4 days before a game or not when you're training at intercounty level.
He's a kid ya, but would Naughton or Sully Og or any of the other younger lads on the panel do that, not a chance in hell, because they know what it means to play for Cork, the sacrifices they've made and the work they've done. Sacrificing a social life to an extent is what all players at the end of the day have to do if they're serious. Now what players do in their own time is their own business, but when it comes to doing something that affects their preformance....

The senior lads though, the real team, they've fought and worked, been through hard times, times when they just wanted to give up, they've made massive sacrifices for the county and club. Have they been made do this no, but they wanted to, because they wanted to play for their county more then anything, they earned it. These lads, will never, not now anyway, no what that means, to break into the Cork team takes some amount of effort, work, sacrifices, why because, through no fault of their own, they didn't really have to earn the jersey, it was handed to them really.
But because of that they'll lack a lot of the edge that comes with playing for the county, the edge that comes with the fear of losing the shirt.

And while we're on the point about earning their place, what about McCarthy, he hasn't earned his job. In the real world you get fired if you consistantly fail at your job and have poor results. Gerald hasn't earned the right to manage Cork again. He did a poor job and should have been sacked.

This is a competitive team, but they welcome anyone coming into it, like Zulo said, it's like a club team to them, it means that much to them. Don't talk about divine right to wear the jersey when you clearly don't know that, because every player that has come into the team has been treated like they've been their for years. They are only minding the jersey for the next personm they know that. The players were asking questions, among themselves, why Naughton wasn't getting a run out because he'd been flying in training, they wanted to see him play because he had been flying in training, Donal Og insists that 2 goalkeepers train and come to matches with him at all times, why?? To keep him on his toes, to keep him fresh, he knows full well that one day he could loose out to them, and I don't know if you know this but there is some serious talent in goalkeepers in Cork, even the Sars lad in goals on the weekend. He knows one day they'll pass him out which they are, were, very close to doing.

That really gets on my goat Zulu. How can you say that and know it? Because Ben O'Connor (I think) said it? That means the collective didn't have their own pride in the jersey to respond? Was there any word of them doing it for their own self respect as a hurler when they were on the pitch? And while we're at it, I can say hand on heart that I have never played a second half of hurling to claw back and win for any manager and I worked with a few...good and bad. I played and trained for the team and when we won we ALL celebrated and when we lost we didn't go looking to blame the management....we took responsibility because it was in us to win and we didn't....too easy to pick targets outside the social group that is the 2008 Cork County Club hurling panel and try and humilate him into resigning. Thank god GMcC is man enough to stand up for himself.

Because every single player who gave an intereview after the match said it, because it's been said that Donal Og, who didn't want to speak, spoke and had the lads close to tears apparently. You question if the lads don't have their own pride in the jersey to respond, it leads me to question have you ever once seen any of these players play before because after that statement I don't think you have, and if you have, probably on very, very few occasions, because if you'd seen this team you wouldn't ask that question, it's insulting to say the least. It's called motivation, extra motivation, how many times has it happened when a team has it's backs up against the wall but won for some outside reason. Donal Og, he's a really good speaker, that's one of the reasons he speaks a lot when making statements to the press about strikes and such and people pick that up a lot when they shouldn't, as seeing him as the ring leader, even in the football strike last season. The amount of grief he got was a joke and unfair. He has taken so much abuse on the players behalf over the years, it was time for them to pay him back, that's how they saw it.
Their own self respect as a hurler, it's not about individuals Skull, sometimes it's bigger then each player, it's about the team in Cork, not a bunch of indiviuals wearing the same jersey. This team is like a club, it's like, as sad as it sounds, a family, they are like brothers. They will put themselves on the line for eachother and the county. I know you're not willing to except that, but it's the way it is. If they were doing it for self respect it would have been for the self respect of the team, like they did against Clare, about a week afterwards.
Man enough, I like Ger, he's a legend of a player, but anyone can see that he's not good enough for the job, it's about his self pride, his ego in this. It's as clear as day that he's not a good manger. Anyone, except apparently Gerald himself can see that. Man enough, he made all of this about him, anytime it got personal, he was the one that made it so. He is not a victim here, he's as guilty as the rest.
You think these players are doing this because they want someone to blame for the loss. For the 100th time Skull it's not about the losses. He's a bad manager, that's as clear as day, now the players no full well that they were the ones who played the game, but standing their for about 15 minutes just hitting the ball in twos to eachother isn't exactly top level. Even the kids like Desmond, White and co, who were brand new could see that he was out of his depth, like the board, out of date.
Eamonn Corcoran, a Tipp hurler incase you weren't sure, who just retired, said that one of the reasons he quit was because..
"The pace of the game has gone to a different level." And it has, another level completley.
But Gerald's training hasn't matched that. He like the CB executives are stuck in the stone age and we are suffering for it.  

Cork's hurling tradition is about winning AIs, not the honour of playing in red jerseys in pointless exhibition matches. Not for the sake of fielding a team. These guys are from a long line of hurlers who are bred into success. The players will do about anything to get to the top of the Roll of Honour table again, and we wont with Gerald and I don't think anyone, no matter what side they are on, could, hand on heart, say that they think Gerald could lead Cork to an AI title.

The players have a very clear belief in what Cork hurling is about.  A lot of other people seem to have lost sight of it.

[orangeman]

Typical response Reillers - put up the smokescreen and run down the lads that are now taking up the mantle - tell eveybody tat they've been on the pss before the game.

Discredit the lads and try ad get the public back on side !

[Zulu]

So they can still play with their clubs therefore keep playing the game they love. Great there's that sorted. So the 2008 panel feel like a club team.....hmmmmm. Thats very strange.

A very simplistic view Skull, do you not think they love playing for their county? I do and I think that is why they are fighting so hard for it.

And those very same administrator(s) have also manipulated the sytem to suit the cork players on countless other occasions...you can't have it both way Zulu. Youse may still not have liked him but there was no Cork man lambasting FM at those times so why so principled now. Double standards me thinks.

Not at all I thought it was a disgrace th eway FM played the system to get lads who were guilty of offences off without any sanctions. But I could also accuse you of similar double standards, you give out about CB's manipulating the system to get players off yet you feel it is ok for them to manipulate the system to score points off their county team.

That really gets on my goat Zulu. How can you say that and know it? Because Ben O'Connor (I think) said it? That means the collective didn't have their own pride in the jersey to respond? Was there any word of them doing it for their own self respect as a hurler when they were on the pitch? And while we're at it, I can say hand on heart that I have never played a second half of hurling to claw back and win for any manager and I worked with a few...good and bad.

I agree, it is about self motivation for players, but everyone knows that Donal Og stood up at half time an made an impassioned plea to his team mates to go out and win the game for him. When things are going against a team, players often need some inspiration (think Joe Kernan at half time and his runners up medal) to get that extra effort needed, the simple truth is that the relationship between Gerald and the squad was such that he wasn't and never will be the man to illict that extra effort from these lads. That is why Donal Og's speech was so important.

Skull you admited already that you believe the CB decision to reappoint Gerald was a power play so I know you'll never support the players but don't try to convince us that you are concerned about the GAA in Cork, you just fear player power and if the CCB have to play dirty to put this down then so be it.

[orangeman]

So they can still play with their clubs therefore keep playing the game they love. Great there's that sorted. So the 2008 panel feel like a club team.....hmmmmm. Thats very strange.

A very simplistic view Skull, do you not think they love playing for their county? I do and I think that is why they are fighting so hard for it.

And those very same administrator(s) have also manipulated the sytem to suit the cork players on countless other occasions...you can't have it both way Zulu. Youse may still not have liked him but there was no Cork man lambasting FM at those times so why so principled now. Double standards me thinks.

Not at all I thought it was a disgrace th eway FM played the system to get lads who were guilty of offences off without any sanctions. But I could also accuse you of similar double standards, you give out about CB's manipulating the system to get players off yet you feel it is ok for them to manipulate the system to score points off their county team.

That really gets on my goat Zulu. How can you say that and know it? Because Ben O'Connor (I think) said it? That means the collective didn't have their own pride in the jersey to respond? Was there any word of them doing it for their own self respect as a hurler when they were on the pitch? And while we're at it, I can say hand on heart that I have never played a second half of hurling to claw back and win for any manager and I worked with a few...good and bad.

I agree, it is about self motivation for players, but everyone knows that Donal Og stood up at half time an made an impassioned plea to his team mates to go out and win the game for him. When things are going against a team, players often need some inspiration (think Joe Kernan at half time and his runners up medal) to get that extra effort needed, the simple truth is that the relationship between Gerald and the squad was such that he wasn't and never will be the man to illict that extra effort from these lads. That is why Donal Og's speech was so important.

Skull you admited already that you believe the CB decision to reappoint Gerald was a power play so I know you'll never support the players but don't try to convince us that you are concerned about the GAA in Cork, you just fear player power and if the CCB have to play dirty to put this down then so be it.

Is that not a legtimate concern of yours as well Zulu or do you think that the players should have the power to do as they please ?

[Zulu]

Not really no, I think players should have an input into who manages the team. IMO the selection committe should be made up of senior players, former managers/players and CB officials, I don't accept for one second that players want a manager that they believe will pick them regardless of the justification so I don't see any drawbacks to players having an input in the process.

[Aghdavoyle]

Zulu -


Teddy Mc Carthy is another total legend of Cork GAA. The players now don't want him because he was involved with the footballers last year ?? Is this true ?? If it is, is there no end to what these lads want ? Is there no end to the demands they make ?


Now because he's not falvour of the month with the strikers, you say you wouldn't play for him or want him coach of any team you'd be involved with. Why is this ??

A legend like Teddy Mc Carthy and you don't want him



What or who do you want or would that be a bit much to ask ?


And what happens if the chosen person's training isn't up to scratch or if you get beat in a couple of matches ? What then ?


Strike 4 ?

Can you really be that naive or do you put up this gormless fool act as a smokescreen. you deem that because a player was a "legend" he should walk into a coaching job with his county or that he should automatically command respect in a field entirely different from the one he earned his previous status in?

you don't think that a coach should be appointed on his coaching capacity and respected or otherwise on his subsequent performance in that role?

Teddy McCarthy should be welcomed with open arms into a professional coaching structure because he was a great player?

any chance that his ability to do the job should be a factor?

[orangeman]

Zulu -


Teddy Mc Carthy is another total legend of Cork GAA. The players now don't want him because he was involved with the footballers last year ?? Is this true ?? If it is, is there no end to what these lads want ? Is there no end to the demands they make ?


Now because he's not falvour of the month with the strikers, you say you wouldn't play for him or want him coach of any team you'd be involved with. Why is this ??

A legend like Teddy Mc Carthy and you don't want him



What or who do you want or would that be a bit much to ask ?


And what happens if the chosen person's training isn't up to scratch or if you get beat in a couple of matches ? What then ?


Strike 4 ?

Can you really be that naive or do you put up this gormless fool act as a smokescreen. you deem that because a player was a "legend" he should walk into a coaching job with his county or that he should automatically command respect in a field entirely different from the one he earned his previous status in?

you don't think that a coach should be appointed on his coaching capacity and respected or otherwise on his subsequent performance in that role?

Teddy McCarthy should be welcomed with open arms into a professional coaching structure because he was a great player?

any chance that his ability to do the job should be a factor?

Any chance that you might pay these lads a bit of respect for a start and then you might get further than the tip of your nose ?.

Of course their coaching ability etc should be looked at - but what I have learned from all of this is that it's got more to do with the CB than anything else.

Teddy Mc Carthy if offering his services to any other club, county, set of players would be welcomed with open arms - but not by this set of players ? What or who will please them ?.


First they want rid of Frank - then Mc Carthy - now Teddy - who next ? Is anybody safe ?

[Zulu]

What makes you think he would be welcomed by every other club or county team in the country?

As for this squad he has twice accepted a role with a management team in dispute with its players therefore he has publicly sided with some of the people alinged against the players. And you think the players should have no problem with him?

[orangeman]

What makes you think he would be welcomed by every other club or county team in the country?

As for this squad he has twice accepted a role with a management team in dispute with its players therefore he has publicly sided with some of the people alinged against the players. And you think the players should have no problem with him?

Have you ever spoken to him to see what he feels, how he thinks, etc etc ?

In your mind, you believe that he has "publicly" sided with some of the people aligned with the players - this might not be true. You've dismissed him right away as being on the "other side". Don't be judging him and condemning him so quickly and don't dismiss him as you've dismissed every CB member and every club delegate as being weak and not having the courage to stand up for themselves ?.

If you can dismiss out of hand someone like Teddy Mac, what chance have mere mortals got ? Maybe you and the strikers want an external to Cork appointment ?

[orangeman]

Not really no, I think players should have an input into who manages the team. IMO the selection committe should be made up of senior players, former managers/players and CB officials, I don't accept for one second that players want a manager that they believe will pick them regardless of the justification so I don't see any drawbacks to players having an input in the process.

That would cause some row in Cork - first of all you'd never get the players to agree on who the former players should be as those who might be most decorated might not get a place at the table because they might have been seen talking to Mc Carthy or Holland on the street some day.

FM might have a hard enough job getting to this meeting as well.

[realrebel]

well the players are meeting with the board and ger and teddy
cant wait to see the outcome of this