McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[theskull1]

I know that oyu've always contended that the strikers will never play ofr Mc Carthy but I'd be prepared to have a bet that at least some of them will play under him before the season is out.

Possibly, Gerald certainly deserves more respect than he was afforded by the players but the bottom line for me is the CB have behaved appallingly and are not acting in the best interests of Cork GAA and the players are fighting this and since they are the only ones who can they deserve the support of all who love the GAA.

If you are referring specifically to this dispute Zulu then what you are contending is very much down to opinion. I could replace the CB in that line to "the striking players" because of the militant reaction they take whenever they don't like what the CB have democratically agreed to do. Maybe everybody who facilitates these guys have had it with their toys out of the pram attitude? I know I would. Hard lessons need to be taught for the long term good and I personally believe that they want to bring some of these players back down to earth if they want to stay involved. And if they don't like it then walk away. Unlike OM I have zero sympathy for the players because their habit formed propensity to go with the nuclear option.

[johnneycool]

I know that oyu've always contended that the strikers will never play ofr Mc Carthy but I'd be prepared to have a bet that at least some of them will play under him before the season is out.

I've made the point very recently and commented on how ironic it is that the strikers are prepared to meet the CB to discuss the impasse and who walked out a hotel recently when they realised that Mc Carthy was in the same building. I do have sympathy for the strikers but they've lost sight of the enemy.

The CB have done a real job in getting offside and leaving Mc Carthy to do their fighting for them. Again, I've made the point before, Mc Carthy never ran out of the road of a challenge or a fight in his long and glorious career and he's not about to now.

I wonder was Frank, the real problem child for the players in the hotel and if he was would the players also walk out for we were led to believe that it was Frank pushing the agenda and wanted the elite players to get the comeuppance for the previous strikes. Frank is also responsible for the fact that the 2009 squad are shite as he never put in place any academies etc to improve the state of Cork hurling. He's the end game in this one.

[orangeman]

I know that oyu've always contended that the strikers will never play ofr Mc Carthy but I'd be prepared to have a bet that at least some of them will play under him before the season is out.

I've made the point very recently and commented on how ironic it is that the strikers are prepared to meet the CB to discuss the impasse and who walked out a hotel recently when they realised that Mc Carthy was in the same building. I do have sympathy for the strikers but they've lost sight of the enemy.

The CB have done a real job in getting offside and leaving Mc Carthy to do their fighting for them. Again, I've made the point before, Mc Carthy never ran out of the road of a challenge or a fight in his long and glorious career and he's not about to now.

I wonder was Frank, the real problem child for the players in the hotel and if he was would the players also walk out for we were led to believe that it was Frank pushing the agenda and wanted the elite players to get the comeuppance for the previous strikes. Frank is also responsible for the fact that the 2009 squad are shite as he never put in place any academies etc to improve the state of Cork hurling. He's the end game in this one.

[/b]


That's what I tohugh / think as well.

But the strikers have lost sight of the real enemy. Mc Carthy is the real victim here.

[Zulu]

I know that oyu've always contended that the strikers will never play ofr Mc Carthy but I'd be prepared to have a bet that at least some of them will play under him before the season is out.

Possibly, Gerald certainly deserves more respect than he was afforded by the players but the bottom line for me is the CB have behaved appallingly and are not acting in the best interests of Cork GAA and the players are fighting this and since they are the only ones who can they deserve the support of all who love the GAA.

If you are referring specifically to this dispute Zulu then what you are contending is very much down to opinion. I could replace the CB in that line to "the striking players" because of the militant reaction they take whenever they don't like what the CB have democratically agreed to do. Maybe everybody who facilitates these guys have had it with their toys out of the pram attitude? I know I would. Hard lessons need to be taught for the long term good and I personally believe that they want to bring some of these players back down to earth if they want to stay involved. And if they don't like it then walk away. Unlike OM I have zero sympathy for the players because their habit formed propensity to go with the nuclear option.

Everything posted on this site is opinion and speculation Skull but nobody has yet to justify a group of men reappointing an unsuccessful manger who's relationship with the players is strained to say the least. The only reason I can see for the CCB to do this was to antagonise the players and no county board should be making decisions to annoying their county panel. They should be making decisions that support their efforts, that is what (in part) they are there for.

If 5 fellas put their name forward for the Cork job and none of them were up to much but that is all that was available I'm sure the players would play for whoever they picked, if they didn't I wouldn't support them. But if the CB reappoint the one man they definately can't work with, clear in the knowledge that they can't work with him then that CB don't deserve the support of the GAA community.

But the strikers have lost sight of the real enemy. Mc Carthy is the real victim here.

They haven't lost sight of this, they just can't do anything about it. Anyway McCarthy has taken it upon himself to fight the CB's fight so he is not entirely innocent.

[The GAA]

If you side with the players,then your arguments are logical, well thought out, sensible and accurate.


If you dare side with the manager, then your arguments are ridiculed as lacking sense and reason.

Surely we've made some valid arguments on behalf of the manager and shown the players' actions to be out of order in the GAA order of things ?.

Where did you side on the Mc Donnell / Grimley managerial appointment at the time

If your arguments are logical, well thought out, sensible and accurate then they will be considered so.

If your argument is lacking sense and reason then that is how it will be viewed.

i don't think there's any ambiguity there?

if you have made a valid argument for the county board's position then i must have missed it amongs the drivel

i knew neither Grimley nor McDonnell in a coaching capacity so i had no particular argument either way but if paedar murray had called and given me a casting vote possibly have taken a punt on Grimley.

[theskull1]

Everything posted on this site is opinion and speculation Skull but nobody has yet to justify a group of men reappointing an unsuccessful manger who's relationship with the players is strained to say the least. The only reason I can see for the CCB to do this was to antagonise the players and no county board should be making decisions to annoying their county panel. They should be making decisions that support their efforts, that is what (in part) they are there for.

Lets not forget Zulu that this was ratified by a large majority by the clubs as well, so why did the club delegates who I'm sure have the best interests of Cork on their minds go with that vote because I believe they obviously feel that Ger is worth another year and due to the attitude of some senior players, did not get a fair crack at the job over the last 2 years. If they believe that to be the truth then it is justifiable in my and many others eyes. The CCB should of course be making decisions to support the efforts of the county team but they have many other responsibilities to the club game as well. Sometimes there is a clash between county and club. The CB's have to find a compromise rather than ignore one over the other. These tough decisions are debated and voted on democratically. One side or the other may not like the compromise but thats life. You can't just spit the dummy out and expect people not to get fed up with that type of default response. You do I'm sure understand that there are more people to consider when it comes to looking after the interests of Cork Hurling other than simply those of the incumbent County Team.

If 5 fellas put their name forward for the Cork job and none of them were up to much but that is all that was available I'm sure the players would play for whoever they picked, if they didn't I wouldn't support them. But if the CB reappoint the one man they definately can't work with, clear in the knowledge that they can't work with him then that CB don't deserve the support of the GAA community.

But they obviously are supported Zulu. Has the vast majority in the GAA community just got fed up with the strikers behaviour?

[Zulu]

Has the vast majority in the GAA community just got fed up with the strikers behaviour?

Yes they have but that shouldn't influence us when discussing this issue.

Lets not forget Zulu that this was ratified by a large majority by the clubs as well, so why did the club delegates who I'm sure have the best interests of Cork on their minds

If clubs and their delegates were so proactive then they would be kicking up a fuss over how the club game is treated by CB's up and down the country. But they don't, why? I believe clubs supported this out of a mixture of apathy for their role, influence from the top table and frustration/annoyance with the certain players.

The CCB should of course be making decisions to support the efforts of the county team but they have many other responsibilities to the club game as well. Sometimes there is a clash between county and club.

That is true but how does reappointing a man that can't possibly succeed help the clubs or anything else? You won't find too many down in Cork who believe the club game is getting a fair crack of the whip, so if they are not supporting their IC team and they are not keeping the clubs happy, who exactly are they supporting?

[theskull1]

Yes they have but that shouldn't influence us when discussing this issue.

I was simply making the point in response to yours that the CB didn't deserve support. But the vast majority don't see it that way because the can see that the CCB has taken too much abuse from these lads in the past just to lie down and accept. In times like that people know that you must rally round the CB who follow the democratic process regardless of their perceived failings. This do as we ask or else position of the players has cast themselves out in the cold.

If clubs and their delegates were so proactive then they would be kicking up a fuss over how the club game is treated by CB's up and down the country. But they don't, why? I believe clubs supported this out of a mixture of apathy for their role, influence from the top table and frustration/annoyance with the certain players.  

We all can think what we want but that is the agreed ratified democratic process? The idea that it is right for a "volunteer" who disagreed with democratically made descisions to just usurp this process by going on strike is crazy. Anarchy would reign?

That is true but how does reappointing a man that can't possibly succeed help the clubs or anything else? You won't find too many down in Cork who believe the club game is getting a fair crack of the whip, so if they are not supporting their IC team and they are not keeping the clubs happy, who exactly are they supporting?

You'd have to qualify what success is this year with all players available for selection to the panel? Maybe rebuilding is very much on the cards? Maybe he and the CB have agreed with the concerns of the clubs that the CB focus has been too "county team" centric in its role as a facilatator to them and that this has been digging away at the foundations of the game (i.e club competitions) and he has agreed that more balance is needed for the conveyor belt of talent to start rolling again? Would be a good enough reason (and the right reason) for me if I was a delegate craving more focus on the club game?

[Zulu]

I was simply making the point in response to yours that the CB didn't deserve support. But the vast majority don't see it that way because the can see that the CCB has taken too much abuse from these lads in the past just to lie down and accept. In times like that people know that you must rally round the CB who follow the democratic process regardless of their perceived failings. This do as we ask or else position of the players has cast themselves out in the cold.

Large numbers of people may not support the palyers but they do not support the CB either, there is as much anger with the CB as there is with the players.

We all can think what we want but that is the agreed ratified democratic process? The idea that it is right for a "volunteer" who disagreed with democratically made descisions to just usurp this process by going on strike is crazy. Anarchy would reign?

Nonsense Skull, this is an amateur organisation so if we don't like what is going on we can refuse to engage with it but that doesn't mean we should be forced out of the games we love. Why should these players simply walk away from hurling because there CB is engaged in political point scoring?

You'd have to qualify what success is this year with all players available for selection to the panel? Maybe rebuilding is very much on the cards? Maybe he and the CB have agreed with the concerns of the clubs that the CB focus has been too "county team" centric in its role as a facilatator to them and that this has been digging away at the foundations of the game (i.e club competitions) and he has agreed that more balance is needed for the conveyor belt of talent to start rolling again? Would be a good enough reason (and the right reason) for me if I was a delegate craving more focus on the club game?

So why weren't other candidates sought out, your suggestion that Gerald and the CB are working together to find a better balance between club and county is pure speculation and has no supporting evidence what so ever. But even if that were true, other candidates might have taken the same approach so a manager with those ideals but more favourable to the players could have been sought.

[theskull1]

Large numbers of people may not support the palyers but they do not support the CB either, there is as much anger with the CB as there is with the players.

Well you're the Cork man so I'm not going to disagree with you but most GAA people if asked who they support on this issue would side with the CB & GMcC.

Nonsense Skull, this is an amateur organisation so if we don't like what is going on we can refuse to engage with it but that doesn't mean we should be forced out of the games we love. Why should these players simply walk away from hurling because there CB is engaged in political point scoring?

I'm sorry Zulu, there was me thinking that they could still play for their clubs. Are you implying that thats not good enough on it's own for these lads to love the game? I'd like you to elablorate the notion of "volunteers" who disagree with democratically made descisions should usurp that democracy by going on strike as being crazy is "nonsense".

So why weren't other candidates sought out, your suggestion that Gerald and the CB are working together to find a better balance between club and county is pure speculation and has no supporting evidence what so ever. But even if that were true, other candidates might have taken the same approach so a manager with those ideals but more favourable to the players could have been sought.

You asked me how could it possibly help the clubs. I speculated without any supporting evidence but I was just helping you think of possible reason why. Thats all. Some out of the box thinking for you 

[realrebel]

zulu
can i ask u what ur thoughts are on with the players meeting with the ccb and management
i hear now they dont want teddy mac there either beause he was a selector with the footballlers last year
are they actually going to talk to anyone or are they again trying to run the show and tell the ccb who they will and wont talk to

[Zulu]

I'm sorry Zulu, there was me thinking that they could still play for their clubs. Are you implying that thats not good enough on it's own for these lads to love the game? I'd like you to elablorate the notion of "volunteers" who disagree with democratically made descisions should usurp that democracy by going on strike as being crazy is "nonsense".

Of course they can and will play for their clubs but this Cork squad is like a club team and these boys shouldn't be forced out by CB manipulation. Democracy is fine but when you have administrators hiding behind the democratic process when they are in fact manipulating the system rather than working within it then you are justified using other means IMO.

zulu
can i ask u what ur thoughts are on with the players meeting with the ccb and management
i hear now they dont want teddy mac there either beause he was a selector with the footballlers last year
are they actually going to talk to anyone or are they again trying to run the show and tell the ccb who they will and wont talk to

I guess the players have to talk with the CB and management but I don't see how this will resolve anything. The CB have repeatedly shown that their motivation is putting the players back in their box and the management team is a non runner as far as this squad is concerned. I don't know what Teddy Mac's motivation is, he has now joined two management teams (in different codes) while they have been in dispute with the players. I personally wouldn't play for him nor would I ever ask him to be a selector if I was coach of a Cork team. I've coached a few teams and the one thing you have to have to be successful is you all have to be pulling in the same direction, which implies trust between the players and the management, this will never occur with Gerald/Teddy and these players. If the players went back under the current management team I'd predict some of the worst displays seen by a Cork team in many years, the only reason Galway didn't beat Cork last year was because Donal Og was sent off, they wouldn't have shown that fight for Gerald IMO. You'd have to question Geralds desire to get these players back after he made Teddy Mac a selector.

[orangeman]

If you side with the players,then your arguments are logical, well thought out, sensible and accurate.


If you dare side with the manager, then your arguments are ridiculed as lacking sense and reason.

Surely we've made some valid arguments on behalf of the manager and shown the players' actions to be out of order in the GAA order of things ?.

Where did you side on the Mc Donnell / Grimley managerial appointment at the time

If your arguments are logical, well thought out, sensible and accurate then they will be considered so.

If your argument is lacking sense and reason then that is how it will be viewed.i don't think there's any ambiguity there?

if you have made a valid argument for the county board's position then i must have missed it amongs the drivel

i knew neither Grimley nor McDonnell in a coaching capacity so i had no particular argument either way but if paedar murray had called and given me a casting vote possibly have taken a punt on Grimley.

Your arguments  are not always logical, sensible or well created but you seem to have this over inflated opinion of yourself and your posts. There's a name for that. I just cant think of it at the minute.    You must have some load of letters after your name ! 


Grimley - why Grimley ? Just because he didn't get it ? So you'd have voted for Mc Donnell if he hadn't got it ?

[orangeman]

Zulu -


Teddy Mc Carthy is another total legend of Cork GAA. The players now don't want him because he was involved with the footballers last year ?? Is this true ?? If it is, is there no end to what these lads want ? Is there no end to the demands they make ?


Now because he's not falvour of the month with the strikers, you say you wouldn't play for him or want him coach of any team you'd be involved with. Why is this ??

A legend like Teddy Mc Carthy and you don't want him



What or who do you want or would that be a bit much to ask ?


And what happens if the chosen person's training isn't up to scratch or if you get beat in a couple of matches ? What then ?


Strike 4 ?

[Reillers]

zulu
can i ask u what ur thoughts are on with the players meeting with the ccb and management
i hear now they dont want teddy mac there either beause he was a selector with the footballlers last year
are they actually going to talk to anyone or are they again trying to run the show and tell the ccb who they will and wont talk to

Surely you know better then most on here that the CB are, well no one supports them, there are two sides in this arguement when it comes to the fans in Cork, the players or Gerald, but you'll find it very very difficult to find a person who backs the CB and who can think

The panel want to know more info about the meeting before they agreed to it. But it is likely they'll meet.
The players aren't trying to run things, they just don't want to, waste their time for a pointless meeting that has no point or solution as has happened in meetings before and they don't want to feel threatened. They don't want to run things blind.