McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

BTW I'm being a devils advocate (maybe stating the obvious) because is too easy to blame the men already doing the job. And is there a queue of replacements to fill their shoes?

And you think that's a justification for supporting the incumbents? I don't expect CB men to be a mixture of JFK, Bill Gates and Gandhi but I do expect them to have the best interests of the GAA at heart. Fixtures aren't easy but establishing a fixture list and by and large sticking with should ensure that most club players are getting enough games. And CB's should simply appoint the best man available to them for their county teams and then assist that man and his squad in whatever way they can (finances permitting). I have a lot of issues with the CCB but I am willing to give them some leeway on all of these. But when they knowingly reappoint a man with whom the panel can't work with then they are clearly pursuing an agenda that hasn't the promotion of the GAA at heart. That is unforgivable and nobody here or anywhere else that I'm aware of, has provided a logical justification for the CCB's decision based on the good of Cork hurling.

Can you hand on heart say likewise that the striking Cork players have the GAA at heart or is it just a case of them ( as Skull has alluded to ) being interested in themselves and their own careers and whatever else comes along with that ?.

[stevetharlear]

BTW I'm being a devils advocate (maybe stating the obvious) because is too easy to blame the men already doing the job. And is there a queue of replacements to fill their shoes?

And you think that's a justification for supporting the incumbents? I don't expect CB men to be a mixture of JFK, Bill Gates and Gandhi but I do expect them to have the best interests of the GAA at heart. Fixtures aren't easy but establishing a fixture list and by and large sticking with should ensure that most club players are getting enough games. And CB's should simply appoint the best man available to them for their county teams and then assist that man and his squad in whatever way they can (finances permitting). I have a lot of issues with the CCB but I am willing to give them some leeway on all of these. But when they knowingly reappoint a man with whom the panel can't work with then they are clearly pursuing an agenda that hasn't the promotion of the GAA at heart. That is unforgivable and nobody here or anywhere else that I'm aware of, has provided a logical justification for the CCB's decision based on the good of Cork hurling.

Hand on heart OM, I'd say these lads have Cork GAA at their heart, and want to win with the jersey on their backs.

Hand on heart, I'd say not one of them is in hurling for the money. FFS like.

Can you hand on heart say likewise that the striking Cork players have the GAA at heart or is it just a case of them ( as Skull has alluded to ) being interested in themselves and their own careers and whatever else comes along with that ?.

[Zulu]

Can you hand on heart say likewise that the striking Cork players have the GAA at heart or is it just a case of them ( as Skull has alluded to ) being interested in themselves and their own careers and whatever else comes along with that ?.

The players are on strike/retired/not playing because the CB screwed them and reappointed a man they can't work with and don't rate as a coach. Little else 'comes' with playing for Cork for the majority of them and for any that do get 'something' for playing with Cork will get much of it when they retire as well. If anything this issue is hurting the earning potential that some players might have. So yes I can say hand on heart that the players are in this to give themselves the best chance of winning for Cork and the future of the Cork IC team.

Well you tee'd me up with your comments above  .........still waiting for you to answer after several attempts. It's all very well to lambast everything wrong in Cork (the second or third best hurling county in the country btw) and state that the players are standing up against all those who in their opinion have not cork hurling's best interests. But are they going to hold to that. Or is it simply about getting rid of GMcC? Can you clarify?  Because if if it is the latter then they are only interested in their own hurling fortunes and nobody elses.

You say this as if it indicates that the CCB must be doing something right, there are only about 9 serious hurling counties and only one of them is a hurling only county. Cork have more hurlers, more tradition and more experienced coaches than any other county, so being the second or third best county in Ireland isn't a major achievement and they are probably not even definately that, Waterford, Galway and Tipp could all claim that position too.

[orangeman]

So no such thing as middle ground with the players at all ? Mc Carthy has indicated that he's prepared to welcome them back.


Surely these players want to hurl above all else ? Why don't they get back in there and try and thrash something out that can save face for both parties and get the players back.

The more time goes on, the more likely the CB will just abandon any attempts at mediation. The players are holding out for too much. The stakes are too high and they're going to lose - everyone is going to lose.

[Zulu]

So no such thing as middle ground with the players at all ? Mc Carthy has indicated that he's prepared to welcome them back.

Ah Jesus OM I give up, can you not understand that relations between the players and McCarthy are so bad that there is no chance of reconciliation between them? This happens in life, I'm begining to think you have never played yourself because if you did you'd understand that players don't have to like their manager but they have to respect him and they have to have some kind of reasonaable relationship with him. Anyway if I was Gerard I wouldn't want most of them back either because I'd know that I could never get through to them and my job would be impossible with so many players on the panel that don't like me. This is the reality, there isn't, nor can there ever be a working relationship between Gerald and the 08 panel and no amount of talking or compromising will ever change that.

[theskull1]

Can you hand on heart say likewise that the striking Cork players have the GAA at heart or is it just a case of them ( as Skull has alluded to ) being interested in themselves and their own careers and whatever else comes along with that ?.

The players are on strike/retired/not playing because the CB screwed them and reappointed a man they can't work with and don't rate as a coach. Little else 'comes' with playing for Cork for the majority of them and for any that do get 'something' for playing with Cork will get much of it when they retire as well. If anything this issue is hurting the earning potential that some players might have. So yes I can say hand on heart that the players are in this to give themselves the best chance of winning for Cork and the future of the Cork IC team.

The error here is that sport is all about winning. Winning at all costs (referring to the absolute sledging and lack of respect that GMcC has taken from the spokesmen of the strikers). If you sincerely believe that winning is everything then I can see why you side with the players. If the only ethic is victory, then is it any wonder the players have acted in the way they have. The reality is likes of the Cork 2008 panel, that seek victory at all costs are destroying the game. we are seeing now the price of winning at all costs. A high price indeed.

You say this as if it indicates that the CCB must be doing something right, there are only about 9 serious hurling counties and only one of them is a hurling only county. Cork have more hurlers, more tradition and more experienced coaches than any other county, so being the second or third best county in Ireland isn't a major achievement and they are probably not even definately that, Waterford, Galway and Tipp could all claim that position too.

So if there are so many experienced coaches, should youse really be castigating the ccb for the lack of raw talent coming through over the past 6 years. I've seen countless comments from cork people that there wasn't that many options regarding new blood over that time. Surely the coaches aren't developing the players properly

[orangeman]

So no such thing as middle ground with the players at all ? Mc Carthy has indicated that he's prepared to welcome them back.

Ah Jesus OM I give up, can you not understand that relations between the players and McCarthy are so bad that there is no chance of reconciliation between them? This happens in life, I'm begining to think you have never played yourself because if you did you'd understand that players don't have to like their manager but they have to respect him and they have to have some kind of reasonaable relationship with him. Anyway if I was Gerard I wouldn't want most of them back either because I'd know that I could never get through to them and my job would be impossible with so many players on the panel that don't like me. This is the reality, there isn't, nor can there ever be a working relationship between Gerald and the 08 panel and no amount of talking or compromising will ever change that.

So you agree then that it's time just to move on without the srtikers if things are that bad ?? The strikers cannot come back under any circumstances with Mc Carthy on board - is that the bottom line ?

[stevetharlear]

The reality is likes of the Cork 2008 panel, that seek victory at all costs are destroying the game. we are seeing now the price of winning at all costs. A high price indeed.

Skull, it's not often you talk out of your hole but the statement above is a good example. Do you think any of the top teams don't have a win at all costs mentality? Tyrone, Kerry, Kilkenny?

[theskull1]

The reality is likes of the Cork 2008 panel, that seek victory at all costs are destroying the game. we are seeing now the price of winning at all costs. A high price indeed.

Skull, it's not often you talk out of your hole but the statement above is a good example. Do you think any of the top teams don't have a win at all costs mentality? Tyrone, Kerry, Kilkenny?

Winning at all costs (referring to the absolute sledging and lack of respect that GMcC has taken from the spokesmen of the strikers).

Maybe you didn't interpret my definition from my original post. Nothing I was talking about referred to being on the field of play.

[The GAA]

The error here is that sport is all about winning. Winning at all costs (referring to the absolute sledging and lack of respect that GMcC has taken from the spokesmen of the strikers). If you sincerely believe that winning is everything then I can see why you side with the players. If the only ethic is victory, then is it any wonder the players have acted in the way they have. The reality is likes of the Cork 2008 panel, that seek victory at all costs are destroying the game. we are seeing now the price of winning at all costs. A high price indeed.

Speaks volumes that your argument has degenerated to this sort of wishy washy nonsense as a central spoke.

[orangeman]

The error here is that sport is all about winning. Winning at all costs (referring to the absolute sledging and lack of respect that GMcC has taken from the spokesmen of the strikers). If you sincerely believe that winning is everything then I can see why you side with the players. If the only ethic is victory, then is it any wonder the players have acted in the way they have. The reality is likes of the Cork 2008 panel, that seek victory at all costs are destroying the game. we are seeing now the price of winning at all costs. A high price indeed.

Speaks volumes that your argument has degenerated to this sort of wishy washy nonsense as a central spoke.

If you side with the players,then your arguments are logical, well thought out, sensible and accurate.


If you dare side with the manager, then your arguments are ridiculed as lacking sense and reason.

Surely we've made some valid arguments on behalf of the manager and shown the players' actions to be out of order in the GAA order of things ?.

Where did you side on the Mc Donnell / Grimley managerial appointment at the time

[Zulu]

Surely we've made some valid arguments on behalf of the manager and shown the players' actions to be out of order in the GAA order of things ?.

You haven't I'm afraid, unless you think accusing them of doing all this for money without a shred of evidence is a valid argument.

[orangeman]

Surely we've made some valid arguments on behalf of the manager and shown the players' actions to be out of order in the GAA order of things ?.

You haven't I'm afraid, unless you think accusing them of doing all this for money without a shred of evidence is a valid argument.

Fair enough - but you've made a few outlandish ones yourself ! 


I think we've both made some valid points but to accuse one side's arguments of being pure rubbish isn't giving the debate any credibility at all. I think we've made valid points in respect of the strike itself and how the players should not have embarked on that course of action, how they've backed themselvs into a a corner, leaving themselves nowhere to go etc etc.
Which brings me to my next point - have you heard that the strikers have now changed their minds and are now prepared to meet Mc Carthy ? This is a positive development and perhaps some resolution can be found.


I know that oyu've always contended that the strikers will never play ofr Mc Carthy but I'd be prepared to have a bet that at least some of them will play under him before the season is out.

[Zulu]

I know that oyu've always contended that the strikers will never play ofr Mc Carthy but I'd be prepared to have a bet that at least some of them will play under him before the season is out.

Possibly, Gerald certainly deserves more respect than he was afforded by the players but the bottom line for me is the CB have behaved appallingly and are not acting in the best interests of Cork GAA and the players are fighting this and since they are the only ones who can they deserve the support of all who love the GAA.

[orangeman]

I know that oyu've always contended that the strikers will never play ofr Mc Carthy but I'd be prepared to have a bet that at least some of them will play under him before the season is out.

Possibly, Gerald certainly deserves more respect than he was afforded by the players but the bottom line for me is the CB have behaved appallingly and are not acting in the best interests of Cork GAA and the players are fighting this and since they are the only ones who can they deserve the support of all who love the GAA.

I have always said that there's more to it than simply the CB being the evil ones here - and I don't want to go over the same ground again - but in my opinion the players have mde some contribution to the rows that have been going on between them and the CB - I have always contended that Mc Carthy has been the real victim here ( leave aside his perceived managerial ability / inability ) but the players have misjudged the situation.

I think the players never dreamt that it would all get to this stage and as one statement after another by both sides, fanned the flames, Mc Carthy got sucked in as the the enemy in this situation, when in fact the real enemy was the CB but the players couldn't see this.

I've made the point very recently and commented on how ironic it is that the strikers are prepared to meet the CB to discuss the impasse and who walked out a hotel recently when they realised that Mc Carthy was in the same building. I do have sympathy for the strikers but they've lost sight of the enemy.

The CB have done a real job in getting offside and leaving Mc Carthy to do their fighting for them. Again, I've made the point before, Mc Carthy never ran out of the road of a challenge or a fight in his long and glorious career and he's not about to now.


I just feel that the strikers ( again leave aside the management sdie of things ) have treated Mc Carthy very poorly all through this and shoen him no respect whatsoever. Mc Carthy, after Semplegate defended his players to the last and gave Nicky Brennan such a doing on the phone, that Brennan hung up on him.