McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

The players will meet but they will only meet if there is an equal number of representivies.

Do you think McCarthy should step down?

I think that he should ne ver have been put in the situation where he has to step down. He told the players that he wasn't going to go for the job again, but was persuaded to, like he was in the first place.
But I think he should have the common sense to step down, because I've no idea what he thinks he can do, he can't win a game with the outstanding players and he's not going to win with these kids, the best thing for Cork hurling is for him to step down, and if we're honest he should never have been given the job again and ye all know it and the only reason he was was to get this result, the one we're looking at now. The 30 players, who have been the biggest thorn in the CBs side, the only people who have stood up to them, are gone. Mission acomplished. We'll have f**k all success but

[Reillers]

The players will meet but they will only meet if there is an equal number of representivies.

Do you think McCarthy should step down?

I think that he should never have been put in the situation where he has to step down. He told the players that he wasn't going to go for the job again, but was persuaded to, like he was in the first place.
But I think he should have the common sense to step down, because I've no idea what he thinks he can do, he can't win a game with the outstanding players and he's not going to win with these kids, the best thing for Cork hurling is for him to step down, and if we're honest he should never have been given the job again and ye all know it and the only reason he was was to get this result, the one we're looking at now. The 30 players, who have been the biggest thorn in the CBs side, the only people who have stood up to them, are gone. Mission acomplished. We'll have f**k all success but at least they'll have the control they've been wanting for all these years and they are just drooling at the fact that things have gone so far.
DO I think he should step down now, yes.
Do I think he should be fired, not really, he has so many reasons to be fired and be justified but if the board fired him I'd be more then pissed off because that means that the board could have done it months ago and that would mean they are what we all know they are. People who couldn't give to shits about Cork hurling and only want to get even with the players.

[INDIANA]

Its inevitable mc carthy will be going soon reillers. But any new manager will still have to be looking over his shoulder to ensure the players bootlaces are in intact and that the training pitch is marked in a straight line. Suppose Sean Og was dropped, do you mean to tell me some of these players wouldn't be knocking at the manager's door? I think they will. They've gone so far over the line of authority at this stage, expecting them to retreat into submission when a new man is appointed is fallacy. And anyone who's been involved with a team knows that.
And i'm not saying the county board haven't been blameless, but things are in such a shambles down there. Who 's in charge?

[Zulu]

Was down in Cork for a few pints over the Christmas and I heard some very interesting stories from lads who would/should be in the know. And as a players man I'd have to say the player's came out of some of these tales very badly and it would be fair to say that the majority of the lads I spoke to weren't overly supportive of the players. However nobody supported the CB either and no one believed the CB acted in good faith this year or last. The overwhelming feeling I got was that Cork people are sick of the lot of them, which is understandable.

I also asked lads why, if everybody was pissed off with the CCB, didn't they get rid of them and to a man they referenced the power of FM and the ineptitude of many club delegates. Now many of you have questioned if this can truly be the case, well if everyone in Cork believes this to be the reality there must be some truth in it and the poor quality of club delegates is unfortunately not unique to Cork.

[Reillers]

Its inevitable mc carthy will be going soon reillers. But any new manager will still have to be looking over his shoulder to ensure the players bootlaces are in intact and that the training pitch is marked in a straight line. Suppose Sean Og was dropped, do you mean to tell me some of these players wouldn't be knocking at the manager's door? I think they will. They've gone so far over the line of authority at this stage, expecting them to retreat into submission when a new man is appointed is fallacy. And anyone who's been involved with a team knows that.
And i'm not saying the county board haven't been blameless, but things are in such a shambles down there. Who 's in charge?

The thing that McCarthy got wrong, and a lot of people as well in the public. This was never really about McCarthy, he just made it so, it was about the way in which he was reappointed by the board.
Any person who has worked with these players O Grady and all of his team, Allen and all of his, loved working with the players, hell Seanie McGrath and Wallis are training theres a reason for that.

And if the players want the best, what's wrong with that..oh ya, it's the GAA. Of course God forbid they want that.
Please I doubt very much, or I hope at least you aren't actually suggesting that the players ran things in the O Grady era and if you do well that's just insulting to the man and clearly you no nothing about him. He had that school teacher thing going on.
As for Allen, he came across that the players ran the show, they did not, nor did they want to. It's also highly insulting to what I would consider to be a hurling genious.
YOu honestly think that the players ran the show with him. This was the man who had no problem subbing Brian Corcoran and Ronan Curran and bringing Naughton on.

They've never ran the show, not even with Gerald McCarthy and I think he'd tell you the same thing, to suggest otherwise is actually insulting him too.

Lets ask Gerald McCarthy about people banging on the door to get a player back..I think he'll recall something in his day. Maybe ask his old teammates.

What line exactly, see McCarthy has been a terrible manager, he didn't no what clubs players were from, who some of them were, he didn't want it in the first place but was dragged into it by Murphy who was "very persuasive," the training was shocking, he lied to the players, telling them nothing would chance and if any of them had a problem they could just talk to him and he'd take it into account. He did nothing. When the poor training was affecting the players on the pitch they spoke to him about it, he listened changed things a small bit and then a week later he was back to normal. He ignored the talk to one, bring one rule, where if he wanted to speak to a player the player had the right to bring someone else in with them. A preexisting set up which worked well, everything pre McCarthy worked well, a winning formula that the board was only too happy to destroy. But no, he didn't follow that either and thought it appropriate to corner players. If a player deviated, like Donal Og did, from the game plan like hitting a short puck out when he saw the oppurtunity, instead of a long one, they were dropped.
The list goes on and on and on.
So at the end, after the KK game, he told the players that he wasn't going to put his name forward if the players didn't want him to, the players didn't want him to but he did anyway.

So the players couldn't understand at the end of this why, after the players made it perfectly clear to the CB that they weren't happy with McCarthy, a man who had lost them 5 games in 2 seasons. Which was more then O Grady and Allen put together I think, they couldn't understand that he was reappointed anyway and no one else was even considered. They feel the proper structure wasn't followed, it wasn't.

They got so sick of it all so they said we're not playing under McCarthy again.

Not what line have they crossed exactly?

Where are the players wrong here..standing up to the board? Refusing to do what they always do.

Now tell me I'm wrong here Indiana but none of anything I've said about McCarthy and the board has been in the best interest of Cork hurling.

None of that is in the best interest of Cork hurling. And what, open the floodgates, welcome back pre 2002. Let this happen and they are fucked. Cork hurling, Cork GAA is fucked.

So what do the players do, play more tit tac toe with the board or walk away from it all.

They have and always will in their view fight the good fight.

I know you think oh poor Gerald, a legend and all, but just stop and take 5 seconds to look at it from the players point of view.

The managers who've worked with these players have nothing but good words and praise to say about them, to say otherwise is factless and unfair.

County board are the biggest shambles of Cork GAA. Like and they are a joke..

They said that Cork were unlucky to loose to Kilkenny, lucky?? In the words of the players, luck would be if the KK players missed the bus, or if the bus crashed..or something to that tone.

And the boards response to years of "doing their job"....The County Board statement says it ". . . may have been guilty of misjudgements in the past but few can deny that we have made adjustments to take account of changed times, new values and circumstances."
To say that is, how the players put it, a "crass understament."

Now everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that, but to make accusations and assumptions with no backing about 3 men and more then what has to be 40/50 players is unfair and out of line.

[theskull1]

But really when you break it down if this is the case Zulu, don't you think it's those very same boys that are as much to blame for standing in the pub doing nothing about it whilst blaming everybody bar themselves for not standing up to FM?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" as they say and as you say yourself this is not a unique situation in Cork. Volunteers are in short supply therefore you will not get the quality right in such circumstances, but what is the alternative to this form of democracy?

I still would love to know how the strikers aim to save Cork Hurling from itself as Reillers has intimated.

[INDIANA]

I haven't made any accusations. I'm very well connected in your part of the world in terms of Gaa. I am well aware of the ins and outs of this better than you realise. O GRady was the first manager after the 2002 mess and the players knew they had to perform. As well as that he's the type of man who wouldn't take any shit, so they had to buy into his methods.
Allen was a different ball game, he set himself up as a facilliatator rather than a manager. IN my view and a lot of others down there, he gave them too much rope which a  lot of other managers would never have given them. I'm not saying thats wrong it worked for Allen but that wasn't going to work with a more authorative manager like Mc Carthy who in his own style wanted to have his own authority. I would go as far to say if O Grady came in after Allen he'd have had problems early on.
The results weren't good , the players felt shut out and as a result they wanted him out.
I can't see how the senior Cork players can ever play for Cork again. No manager will ever feel safe working with them again. Clean slate all round. Manager and senior players to go. County board officials should go as well, but thats up to the clubs. Gaa is not perfect as an organisation but you can't have players getting rid of the county board for the sake of one county.
I'm from a big county myself, we have over 200 delegates. Some of them are muppets but not 200 of them. I still can;t believe that all the club delegates are patsys, because it simply defies human logic. John Bailey thought he was bulletproof in Dublin as well. The clubs got rid of him. The Cork clubs have to do the same.

[Zulu]

Well in fairness Skull all the lads I spoke to are relatively young men who are either playing or coaching so they do contribute to their clubs and the GAA in general. Also some of them have young families and/or busy professional lives so they don't have the time to get involved in committees especially at CB level.This is generally why volunteers are difficult to come by and most of them want to be involved in on-field action not stuck in meetings. So I don't think you can blame others for the actions of the club delegates and CB's, and anyway I have been involved in some committees and it can be a very frustrating experience. I was in meetings with some people who were there for 10 years or more and who voted with one particular individual regardless of the issue.

They are all great club people in their own way but they are not willing to give younger members bring the club forward and one or two of them would fight with themselves if left in a room alone for long enough. One of this group is our club delegate and he doesn't represent the views of many younger members of the club but nobody wants the job and besides even if you did take it you'd be pissing against the wind at CB meetings. There are cliques, divisional rivalries, club V certain club issues, career CB men who are more interested in climbing the ladder than effecting real change etc. All in all a nightmare way to spend your free time, I'd readily get involved at CB level if I thought I could effect change but I don't believe I could.

[Reillers]

I haven't made any accusations. I'm very well connected in your part of the world in terms of Gaa. I am well aware of the ins and outs of this better than you realise. O GRady was the first manager after the 2002 mess and the players knew they had to perform. As well as that he's the type of man who wouldn't take any shit, so they had to buy into his methods.
Allen was a different ball game, he set himself up as a facilliatator rather than a manager. IN my view and a lot of others down there, he gave them too much rope which a  lot of other managers would never have given them. I'm not saying thats wrong it worked for Allen but that wasn't going to work with a more authorative manager like Mc Carthy who in his own style wanted to have his own authority. I would go as far to say if O Grady came in after Allen he'd have had problems early on.
The results weren't good , the players felt shut out and as a result they wanted him out.
I can't see how the senior Cork players can ever play for Cork again. No manager will ever feel safe working with them again. Clean slate all round. Manager and senior players to go. County board officials should go as well, but thats up to the clubs. Gaa is not perfect as an organisation but you can't have players getting rid of the county board for the sake of one county.
I'm from a big county myself, we have over 200 delegates. Some of them are muppets but not 200 of them. I still can;t believe that all the club delegates are patsys, because it simply defies human logic. John Bailey thought he was bulletproof in Dublin as well. The clubs got rid of him. The Cork clubs have to do the same.

To suggest that O Grady, Allen and even McCarthy that the players ran things with all of them. O Grady was a bloody brilliant manager, the players like him he liked the players and the players were happy because O Grady was a brilliant manager. "Had to buy into his methods," had to? Maybe they wanted to. Why do you have to think the worst of the players.

Allen, he also had that school teacher approach about him. He was an authorative manager, people don't realise that, but the players had massive respect to the man, he too was a great manager. He let the players speak but they, by any measure of a mile, didn't run things.
The players got on with him, he was an excellent manager and he got on very well with the team..there's nothing wrong with that. But then the playres and Allen's backroom staff was ambushed by the board.
It wasn't about McCarthy himself, he's the one who made it about him, like I said they were all ambushed by the board, they had a working formula in place that had been very succesfull.
But the board wanted power back, so they instead of even interviewing any of the backroom team, just dragged McCarthy, who didn't want the job in the first place, into the job, without even the decency to give men like Cunningham an interview.
McCarthy was from the start a yes man, he just didn't know it. That was the problem.
He was the CB's man. And right there, that set the alarm bells ringing but even that, it was McCarthy's actions in his job. His attitude to the players and training, his attitude was poor, and he wasn't good at his job. FACT.
O Grady was his own man, and McCarthy, he's now a parrot which is a pitty because he was a legend of the player.


That's the point isn't it, the results weren't good, the players did feel shut out and they did want him out..to any other sport what would that mean, the manager is gotten rid of, not the players..but in Cork..
You couldn't meet more of a gent then Sean Og, no one cares more about the game then Donal og, the twins are two of the greatest legends you'll ever meet. They are all good lads, nice lads who care about the game emensly.
I think some would have no problem working with them, their problem is and always has been the CB. But I can see how some would hesitate, but anyone who would realistically be interested in taking the job would know that.

A clean slate all around, I don't think so.
But ya, the manager should go, the senior players of the team should go, but the young lads should deffintly stay, and the fossils should go as well.
What's the problem here though, I have no doubt that the players would walk away if it as the best for Cork..but McCarthy has shown he wont and the CB have shown over the years, and have an impecable record of proving that they don't give to shits about them.
The Cork clubs have to do the same. BUT some don't care, some don't want to and some wont risk it.
I think you'll find that volunteers are hard to come by and most want to spend their time on the field. The people there are still there in years to come, hence why there are so many fossils in the CB who always back their old friend Murphy and such.
There are good men, the people in my club are good club lads, but God forbid we go into the 21st century in Cork.

[orangeman]

2 from the players, 2 from the board and 2 neutrals maybe? I'd suggest O Grady and Cunnignham but I know full well they despise the board as much as any Cork man who has been in the job.
I don't know, but 2-2 could work, stalement maybe but it's equal power.

2 neutrals and u pick o grady and cunnignham are u for real what world are u living in reillers to call them neutral
if and when it comes down to 2v2 whats to say ger mac is part of the 2
are the players not going to agree to this are they going to tell the ccb who they can bring

I'd suggest BUT, BUT. There's no chance in hell they'd be there, like I said if you bothered ro finish reading it, they wouldn't be neutrals

Let me see your posts are similar to OM....So are you OM??
Oh you most be so I'll just ignore you telling me otherwise and just keep saying it.
[/quote]


You're still going back to the same auld rubbish when challenged Reillers - ok I haven't a clue but how can you claim that everybody apart from yourself is stupid ??

[orangeman]

Reillers is dreaming of next September with one Ger in and onther Ger out. The players will be brought to Croke Park in chauffeur driven limousines and will be allowed to have Paddy Power, Corona Extra Lite, Guinness, Barrys Tea or whatever they want on their hurls.

They will have a sit doen protest if Donal Og isn't allowed to use his chosen sliothar even it hasn't been approved by the GPA ( the governing body ). Donal Og will present and accept the new version of the Liam Mc Carthy Cup which from now on will be sponsored by Club Energise Cup for those from Cork and The Lucozade Sport Cup for all other counties.





Here's what Dessie said recently :

What about the next generation?  How critical to their future and the future of our games are men like Ó hAilpín, Gardiner, Shefflin, Canning, the Kellys, the Ó Sés, O'Sullivan, Cavanagh, Dooher, the Brogans to name but a few. The player should not be regarded as some sort of product on a never- ending conveyor belt. Some of us were fortunate to realise our dreams, others were not, but without the dream and the great players to provide the inspiration what do you have? Without these players there is nothing



Do the GPA really believe that without Gardiner and O hAilpin there is nothing No wonder the Cork lads are behaving the way they are, listening to this rubbish for the gospel.

[Reillers]

Reillers is dreaming of next September with one Ger in and onther Ger out. The players will be brought to Croke Park in chauffeur driven limousines and will be allowed to have Paddy Power, Corona Extra Lite, Guinness, Barrys Tea or whatever they want on their hurls.

They will have a sit doen protest if Donal Og isn't allowed to use his chosen sliothar even it hasn't been approved by the GPA ( the governing body ). Donal Og will present and accept the new version of the Liam Mc Carthy Cup which from now on will be sponsored by Club Energise Cup for those from Cork and The Lucozade Sport Cup for all other counties.





Here's what Dessie said recently :

What about the next generation?  How critical to their future and the future of our games are men like Ó hAilpín, Gardiner, Shefflin, Canning, the Kellys, the Ó Sés, O'Sullivan, Cavanagh, Dooher, the Brogans to name but a few. The player should not be regarded as some sort of product on a never- ending conveyor belt. Some of us were fortunate to realise our dreams, others were not, but without the dream and the great players to provide the inspiration what do you have? Without these players there is nothing



Do the GPA really believe that without Gardiner and O hAilpin there is nothing No wonder the Cork lads are behaving the way they are, listening to this rubbish for the gospel.

Why don't you actually FOR ONCE read what's written.
You really are full of shit OM. The MOST biased person on here by a clear mile who clearly knows nothing about hurling.
Everyone else on here discusses things, and such, makes reasonable arguments, but you, you don't and then you come out with crap like you have a good knowledge of Cork hurling and the inside as well and then you turn around and ask who Pat Horgan is, and say that the likes of Ben and co are in bad form. And then you have the nerve to call yourself unbiased.

[orangeman]

You don't really have to repeat yourself Reillers but I suppose the steam's well and truly coming out of your ears at this stage given the home truths that have been delivered your way as past few days and believe it or not, they were not delivered by me but by other lads who know more than me about the situation and who are closer to it.

I've deliberately sat out for a few days to see how the debate went but you keep coming out with the same old rhetoric :

I know - I've proof - you lads haven't a clue - you're full of shit.

The CB are evil b----rds. They're out to hang the players.

The Club delegates are clueless and only raise an arm when instructed to do so by the devil Frank.

Mc Carthy has to go ( but I don't want him to be forced into resigning ) cos the players are the only men who want what is best for Cork hurling - the CB and club delagates don't want to see hurling prosper in Cork - they want it banned and this is their way of doing it.


and on and on and on and on it goes.......




Would you like to see Mc Carthy walk up Merchant's Quay with a placard round his neck saying "I'm a bad manager ! Reillers is right and I wish I lived in Reillersland ", and getting publicly beaten by Donal Og and Gardiner giving him 40 lashes with an Energise Bottle .


You lads have lost of the run yourselves.



Leave the cars back !!!

[Reillers]

I don't have to repeat myself, for you, yes, for you I need finger puppets at this rate.
You say you're not biased.

Grow up.

[The GAA]

Do the GPA really believe that without Gardiner and O hAilpin there is nothing No wonder the Cork lads are behaving the way they are, listening to this rubbish for the gospel.

that is really your conclusion from that quote?

lord jaysus