McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional O Grady was exceptional and Allen was a decent manager, both of which manage to counter Kilkenny tactics and come up with or continue tactics that won them finals and were equal to success, what did McCarthy do in his two years?? Nothing brought back in the long ball game that was useless, he didn't work to counter Kk's game, he gave no structure or guidance, nothing, and when the players tried to vary that tactic when it was working they were dropped - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.
This team is creaking but it has fantastic young players that have been banging down the door for a year or so, now I fear we'll never see them play again, I also think, on another note that KK can only go one way from now on and that's down, that team has been on the road for a long time, and will be on the road down hill, like you said, no team endures forever and not even Cody can prevent what is happening to Cork and what will happen to KK
Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.
No there's not, there are no other ways of protest in Cork that will get you any attention from the CB, nothing but this gets any attention or notice. All of this if I remember rightly is a protest in the way in which McCarthy was reappointed by the board, mcCarthy has made this more about him then it was meant to be and he is no innocent in this and has insulted the players and lied more then the players have even spoken to the media.

Reillers, why oh why do Cork hurlers believe that they are unique in that they feel they have to strike ?? They're bringing undue attention on themselves, the county and the association. There are other forms of protest  -the footballers aren't going to the medal ceremony. That's a form of protest.

What else are they supposed to do. They are in a bad position, they take things into their own hands. Something wrong with that or is it how dare they step out of line of the status quo.
Other forms of protest, please, nothing gets the CBs attention, this barely does it. The protesting the footballers are doing, that's more for the hurlers then the CB.

Are you saying there is no other grievance procedure in Cork apart from striking ?

[Reillers]

I'm not sure that any of the hurlers have said they'd go back if Ger Mac resigned. I'm sure a few of them have said that they'd never play under him again but how have people jumped on this as their reason for striking.

Who's to say that they won't stop at that and that they are doing it for the betterment of Cork GAA, and not just for selfish reasons as is being put forward here.

Personally I hope they stay out until they're paid to play.

They say, OM and Skull and co. They don't like the players, they always presume the worst, according to them there's no way at all that the players are doing this for reasons other then being selfish and such. (despite having no proof to back their claims) they go on and on, saying don't give me that putting Cork future first, or I don't buy that they are doing it for the future of Cork hurling. They don't believe that, despite like I said having no reason not to except personal feelings, they've no proof, no backing nothing, nothing to suggest that this is for personal gain, except for their own personal oppinion of the players, which is mud, in their minds the players are mud and Gerald, a legend of a player, but in this he's done things including lying several times, making the players look two faced, and a lot of that for ego alone, in their minds is a saint, they don't and wont look at the other side of it.

And, stay out until they're paid to play..
Personally I don't agree with the pay for play, but I can only imagine the response you'll get on here from ba, ba skull and OM.

[Reillers]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional O Grady was exceptional and Allen was a decent manager, both of which manage to counter Kilkenny tactics and come up with or continue tactics that won them finals and were equal to success, what did McCarthy do in his two years?? Nothing brought back in the long ball game that was useless, he didn't work to counter Kk's game, he gave no structure or guidance, nothing, and when the players tried to vary that tactic when it was working they were dropped - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.
This team is creaking but it has fantastic young players that have been banging down the door for a year or so, now I fear we'll never see them play again, I also think, on another note that KK can only go one way from now on and that's down, that team has been on the road for a long time, and will be on the road down hill, like you said, no team endures forever and not even Cody can prevent what is happening to Cork and what will happen to KK
Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.
No there's not, there are no other ways of protest in Cork that will get you any attention from the CB, nothing but this gets any attention or notice. All of this if I remember rightly is a protest in the way in which McCarthy was reappointed by the board, mcCarthy has made this more about him then it was meant to be and he is no innocent in this and has insulted the players and lied more then the players have even spoken to the media.

Reillers, why oh why do Cork hurlers believe that they are unique in that they feel they have to strike ?? They're bringing undue attention on themselves, the county and the association. There are other forms of protest  -the footballers aren't going to the medal ceremony. That's a form of protest.

What else are they supposed to do. They are in a bad position, they take things into their own hands. Something wrong with that or is it how dare they step out of line of the status quo.
Other forms of protest, please, nothing gets the CBs attention, this barely does it. The protesting the footballers are doing, that's more for the hurlers then the CB.

Are you saying there is no other grievance procedure in Cork apart from striking ?

No but what am I saying is that nothing gets this county boards attention then striking. They don't listen to the players, they don't give them the time of day. They don't really give them any other choice.

[orangeman]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional O Grady was exceptional and Allen was a decent manager, both of which manage to counter Kilkenny tactics and come up with or continue tactics that won them finals and were equal to success, what did McCarthy do in his two years?? Nothing brought back in the long ball game that was useless, he didn't work to counter Kk's game, he gave no structure or guidance, nothing, and when the players tried to vary that tactic when it was working they were dropped - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.
This team is creaking but it has fantastic young players that have been banging down the door for a year or so, now I fear we'll never see them play again, I also think, on another note that KK can only go one way from now on and that's down, that team has been on the road for a long time, and will be on the road down hill, like you said, no team endures forever and not even Cody can prevent what is happening to Cork and what will happen to KK
Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.
No there's not, there are no other ways of protest in Cork that will get you any attention from the CB, nothing but this gets any attention or notice. All of this if I remember rightly is a protest in the way in which McCarthy was reappointed by the board, mcCarthy has made this more about him then it was meant to be and he is no innocent in this and has insulted the players and lied more then the players have even spoken to the media.

Reillers, why oh why do Cork hurlers believe that they are unique in that they feel they have to strike ?? They're bringing undue attention on themselves, the county and the association. There are other forms of protest  -the footballers aren't going to the medal ceremony. That's a form of protest.

What else are they supposed to do. They are in a bad position, they take things into their own hands. Something wrong with that or is it how dare they step out of line of the status quo.
Other forms of protest, please, nothing gets the CBs attention, this barely does it. The protesting the footballers are doing, that's more for the hurlers then the CB.

Are you saying there is no other grievance procedure in Cork apart from striking ?

No but what am I saying is that nothing gets this county boards attention then striking. They don't listen to the players, they don't give them the time of day. They don't really give them any other choice.

Of course they have :

They can go play club hurling and wait till the following year or until such times as they wise up.

They could have pursued other avenues, other grievance procedures, other forms of action.

They could have addressed the grievnce through their clubs.


But once they pressed the nuclear button, again, they were as good as finished.


By the way, I don't think there would be too many company cars, handy jobs or big feeds for playing for Ballinhassig. 

[orangeman]

I'm not sure that any of the hurlers have said they'd go back if Ger Mac resigned. I'm sure a few of them have said that they'd never play under him again but how have people jumped on this as their reason for striking.

Who's to say that they won't stop at that and that they are doing it for the betterment of Cork GAA, and not just for selfish reasons as is being put forward here.

Personally I hope they stay out until they're paid to play.

They say, OM and Skull and co. They don't like the players, they always presume the worst, according to them there's no way at all that the players are doing this for reasons other then being selfish and such. (despite having no proof to back their claims) they go on and on, saying don't give me that putting Cork future first, or I don't buy that they are doing it for the future of Cork hurling. They don't believe that, despite like I said having no reason not to except personal feelings, they've no proof, no backing nothing, nothing to suggest that this is for personal gain, except for their own personal oppinion of the players, which is mud, in their minds the players are mud and Gerald, a legend of a player, but in this he's done things including lying several times, making the players look two faced, and a lot of that for ego alone, in their minds is a saint, they don't and wont look at the other side of it.

And, stay out until they're paid to play..
Personally I don't agree with the pay for play, but I can only imagine the response you'll get on here from ba, ba skull and OM.

Where was Lord Haw Haw from ? Cork by any chance ??


How is the siege mentality anyway Reillers ? You should get ease off a bit cause you're going over the top !! You might overdose on it, so you should take it a bit easier - get one the lads to drive you round in one of the company cars. 

[Reillers]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional O Grady was exceptional and Allen was a decent manager, both of which manage to counter Kilkenny tactics and come up with or continue tactics that won them finals and were equal to success, what did McCarthy do in his two years?? Nothing brought back in the long ball game that was useless, he didn't work to counter Kk's game, he gave no structure or guidance, nothing, and when the players tried to vary that tactic when it was working they were dropped - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.
This team is creaking but it has fantastic young players that have been banging down the door for a year or so, now I fear we'll never see them play again, I also think, on another note that KK can only go one way from now on and that's down, that team has been on the road for a long time, and will be on the road down hill, like you said, no team endures forever and not even Cody can prevent what is happening to Cork and what will happen to KK
Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.
No there's not, there are no other ways of protest in Cork that will get you any attention from the CB, nothing but this gets any attention or notice. All of this if I remember rightly is a protest in the way in which McCarthy was reappointed by the board, mcCarthy has made this more about him then it was meant to be and he is no innocent in this and has insulted the players and lied more then the players have even spoken to the media.

Reillers, why oh why do Cork hurlers believe that they are unique in that they feel they have to strike ?? They're bringing undue attention on themselves, the county and the association. There are other forms of protest  -the footballers aren't going to the medal ceremony. That's a form of protest.

What else are they supposed to do. They are in a bad position, they take things into their own hands. Something wrong with that or is it how dare they step out of line of the status quo.
Other forms of protest, please, nothing gets the CBs attention, this barely does it. The protesting the footballers are doing, that's more for the hurlers then the CB.

Are you saying there is no other grievance procedure in Cork apart from striking ?

No but what am I saying is that nothing gets this county boards attention then striking. They don't listen to the players, they don't give them the time of day. They don't really give them any other choice.

Of course they have :

They can go play club hurling and wait till the following year or until such times as they wise up. So they shouldn't play at all. And isn't that pretty much what they are doing now, not playing under McCarthy.

They could have pursued other avenues, other grievance procedures, other forms of action.

Oh like talking to the CB and airing their grievances, they did and they were ignored.

They could have addressed the grievnce through their clubs.

You'd be surprised but most clubs don't back their players..too much to loose.

But once they pressed the nuclear button, again, they were as good as finished.


By the way, I don't think there would be too many company cars, handy jobs or big feeds for playing for Ballinhassig. 

[Reillers]

I'm not sure that any of the hurlers have said they'd go back if Ger Mac resigned. I'm sure a few of them have said that they'd never play under him again but how have people jumped on this as their reason for striking.

Who's to say that they won't stop at that and that they are doing it for the betterment of Cork GAA, and not just for selfish reasons as is being put forward here.

Personally I hope they stay out until they're paid to play.

They say, OM and Skull and co. They don't like the players, they always presume the worst, according to them there's no way at all that the players are doing this for reasons other then being selfish and such. (despite having no proof to back their claims) they go on and on, saying don't give me that putting Cork future first, or I don't buy that they are doing it for the future of Cork hurling. They don't believe that, despite like I said having no reason not to except personal feelings, they've no proof, no backing nothing, nothing to suggest that this is for personal gain, except for their own personal oppinion of the players, which is mud, in their minds the players are mud and Gerald, a legend of a player, but in this he's done things including lying several times, making the players look two faced, and a lot of that for ego alone, in their minds is a saint, they don't and wont look at the other side of it.

And, stay out until they're paid to play..
Personally I don't agree with the pay for play, but I can only imagine the response you'll get on here from ba, ba skull and OM.

Where was Lord Haw Haw from ? Cork by any chance ??


How is the siege mentality anyway Reillers ? You should get ease off a bit cause you're going over the top !! You might overdose on it, so you should take it a bit easier - get one the lads to drive you round in one of the company cars. 

Do you ever reply to difficult posts or do you ignore them all and whinge on about whatever it is you want to talk about??

[orangeman]

I'm not sure that any of the hurlers have said they'd go back if Ger Mac resigned. I'm sure a few of them have said that they'd never play under him again but how have people jumped on this as their reason for striking.

Who's to say that they won't stop at that and that they are doing it for the betterment of Cork GAA, and not just for selfish reasons as is being put forward here.

Personally I hope they stay out until they're paid to play.

They say, OM and Skull and co. They don't like the players, they always presume the worst, according to them there's no way at all that the players are doing this for reasons other then being selfish and such. (despite having no proof to back their claims) they go on and on, saying don't give me that putting Cork future first, or I don't buy that they are doing it for the future of Cork hurling. They don't believe that, despite like I said having no reason not to except personal feelings, they've no proof, no backing nothing, nothing to suggest that this is for personal gain, except for their own personal oppinion of the players, which is mud, in their minds the players are mud and Gerald, a legend of a player, but in this he's done things including lying several times, making the players look two faced, and a lot of that for ego alone, in their minds is a saint, they don't and wont look at the other side of it.

And, stay out until they're paid to play..
Personally I don't agree with the pay for play, but I can only imagine the response you'll get on here from ba, ba skull and OM.

Where was Lord Haw Haw from ? Cork by any chance ??


How is the siege mentality anyway Reillers ? You should get ease off a bit cause you're going over the top !! You might overdose on it, so you should take it a bit easier - get one the lads to drive you round in one of the company cars. 

Do you ever reply to difficult posts or do you ignore them all and whinge on about whatever it is you want to talk about??

Go out for a wee drive Reillers and maybe rthe lads can change that record about not reply to posts. 

[adevvabr]

Reillers even if Donal o grady or John Allen were managing Cork last year, Kilkenny still would have beaten Cork and anyone who dosent believe this in my opinion is disillusional. The players coming out blaming the defeats from last year on Ger Mccarthy alone is unfair and they need to take some responsibility themselves. However i feel this group of players believe their own hype too much typlified by some of the things written by Brian Corcoran in his book and are too stubborn to accept that they were beaten by a better team.

[Reillers]

Oh sweet mother of God.

First..Would people who randomely come by, which I've no problem with, read posts in the thread before making posts like this, it would save us a lot of time, not rehasihing the same argument and posts over an over again..more so then we are doing all ready.

True we probably wouldn't have beaten KK this year, no matter who we were under, I don't think anyone has said otherwise....BUT..

It's NOT ABOUT LOOSING TO KILKENNY!!

It's about the losses alone. Please read the posts that were all ready put up if you don't know what's going on.

We've had 5 bad days in 2 years with McCarthy. Under O Grady and Allen we lost 3 championship matches in 4 years.

Look at the difference between the styles of play under O Grady and Allen.

The handpassing game is gone completley, Donal Og is instructed to puck the ball long, (giving one short puck out in a game got him dropped), a tactic that played its part in losing to KK, we have one player who's comfortable winning the ball in the air, everyone else seemed to get bullied off the ball.

Look, the fact of the matter is that the players are unhappy with Gerald's training and tactics, the way he treats them, the tatics that they've used and have not been successful with. If players went to any other coach in any other sport, there would have been change. But in the GAA, in Cork, not at all, too much status quo.
If it is obviously not working, like it hasn't been in Cork, there needs to be change. But God forbid no, not in this county, the players couldn't be right at all, not with this CB.

Gerald's record in the last 2 years speaks for itself. The job should be performance based, not politically based like it was and still is in Cork. But welcome to Cork GAA. They CB would have it no other way.

And the difference between O Grady and McCarthy

I think it's only a matter of time before we have a new manager, I don't know who, but I think it's only a matter of time, Gerald though, most definately, can't stay as he is.
I'd much prefer to see Gerald step down now, than later when his reputation will be in tatters, being forced to step down. I think we should make him one of the full time coaches of the development squad, or atleast some position that allows him to pass on his years of experience to those just coming up the ranks.

The players and Gerald have the respect of all Cork fans, some may respect one more than the other, or many only respect one, but still. There are the pro Gerald or pro players, it's wrong, we should all be pro Cork hurling, it should all be about what's best for Cork hurling.

Without question, the Cork hurlers will work and train harder this season, nobody works harder then them, especially if they've a point to proove and their backs are against the wall, if they come back to the right manager, because they will want to repay the faith shown by the fans, like 02 and proove everyone else, all their critics, wrong.

But that said I don't think Gerald should be forced out of the job, he should just leave. He just shouldn't have been reappointed in the first place. I think he should resign, and he knows that, he should have left way back when, truely great managers leave when they know that time is up, like Justin did in Waterford, Gerald should have recognised that and sadly I think part of him did, but there was too much ego involved for him to give in. Too much pride.

[Zulu]

Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

We have disagreed before Zulu and I am not going back over old ground. I know you support the players and like others in Cork have a view of the CB that is negative. However I do think that your simplistic conclusion on what led to last years strike deserves clarification for others on this board.

At a CB meeting (think it was Oct '07) Bob Honohan proposed a motion that in future selectors would be appointed by the CB and not by the manager. His proposal was based on an argument that management of county teams had become totally seperate from the CB and this was detrimental to the club scene especially with regard to fixtures. His proposal was supported by a very large majority (I forget the exact number). At a subsequent meeting after the players had threatened strike the delegates to the CB again supported the motion.

For what its worth I think the motion was ill advised and would do nothing to sort problems with club fixtures. But I do not believe that it was done to annoy the players or that there was anything underhand.  Unlike you Zulu (and Reillers) I respect other peoples views and I respect the views of the delegates who voted for this. And the delegates who voted for this are not sheep who just vote for anything proposed - they voted based on what they thought best for Cork GAA. These are the facts as to what happened - you may interpret it as idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded but I believe it was well intentioned though mistaken. I might also add that I do not believe that the right of managers to appoint selectors is sacrosant and written in stone - some managers just appoint a few yes men around them. A better system would be that when managers are appointed that they also have their backroom team approved at the same time.

I must take exception to this comment, where have I (I'll let Reillers speak for himself) shown a lack of respect for other peoples opinions on this or any other thread. I have sought clarification from some posters as to why they said what they said but I don't believe I have show a lack of respect for others views and I'm disappointed you would suggest I have.

As for your summary of what happened last year, you are largely correct in the technicalities but like others around here I believe you are wrong in your interpretation of the reason it was proposed. Ask any top coach if he would take an IC job where he couldn't have a say in picking his selectors and the vast majority would turn it down. I know of no one who thinks a manager shouldn't pick his own selectors so surely any right thinking person would question why A) it was proposed and B) why it was supported by so many delegates.

On to this year, why did the CCB reappoint a man who was largely unsuccessful and the players couldn't work with and why did they fail to provide at least one alternative? The Mayo lads here are giving JM an fairly hard time after two years and Mickey Harte would be under serious pressure this year if Tyrone had lost to Mayo or Westmeath last year. Now would Tyrone or Mayo lads be happy if next year the county job was up for grabs and their CB's reappointed both managers without even consdiering alternatives? (presuming Tyrone had lost to Westmeath last year). I think many lads would be fuming and if it came to light that both panels had gone to the CB and said things weren't working out with JM (in Mayo) and they had gone stale with MH (in Tyrone), we'd have threads nearly as big as this one woundering what the hell the CB's were playing at. Yet many fellas here seem to think the CCB have nothing to answer for by doing exactly that.

OM the players didn't just go on strike in 02 they only did so after a number of failed meetings with the CCB, this year they only left after the CCB clearly ignored their opinion on the man they know better than the CCB and who they would have to work with again this year. You can only talk to some people so many times before it becomes pointless, and it clearly has become pointless to talk to the CCB at this stage.

Like last year it seems to me that pro CCB posters are only supporting them because they think not doing so means you support player power but I believe only CB's who are working for the GAA deserve support and IMO the CCB have not got the best interests of the GAA at heart when dealing with the Cork players

[Bud Wiser]

I was down there today Reillers at a funeral and I was in Youghal GAA Club up on the hill. So, over a few pints I did a little survey as to what your GAA comrades down there thought.  First impression I get is that this is a much biger issue than I thought it was and from the response I got, it is going nowhere in a hurry.  Not one person was against the players or the management - all were against both !  With one exception, a young lad of eleven who was actually from another club across the river, who was totally in favour of the players.  For a lad of his age he knew a lot, all about the whole scene, then went on to describe players characters as he hopped a ball on a hurley. This young lad dumfounded me as he described different cames he was at, how comebacks after being 8 points down were achieved etc.  He was wearing a Man Utd tracksuit and cap, and said he plays soccer, football and hurling but that he is going to concentrate on soccer because he wants to play for Utd. 

I just think that a young lad like this should not have his head filled with shit like this? Maybe HQ should step in then and take out both the cb and the players who refuse to play.

[INDIANA]

The cork county  board are the elected officials in cork by the clubs. What the players are proposing is to remove them without following due process. That would pave the way for absolute anarchy within the Gaa. There is plenty of things I don't like about the Dublin county board especially when John Bailey was in charge. But we had to wait for the clubs to vote him out of office, which happened. Not only do they want to pick the manager, they also want to shift the Cork county baord.
Now with all due respects are people seriously suggesting that the 200 clubs in cork are all a herd of sheep who vote en bloc for this crew. Cork are not a special case they are one county of 32. Now if the divisons are such that the clubs don;t take any interest in voting the officers of the county board. Then there is no hope for them. I don't particularily like some elements of the Cork county board but like in Dublin and any other county there is a process in place for getting rid of them.

[Zulu]

True Indiana but the reason that many CB's get away with what they do is because of the apathy of clubs, who vote for what the CB tell them to vote for. How many of us complain about the club championship being held up for all summer yet how many CB's are brought to task for this by the club delegates. If clubs don't demand heads when their own clubs are fucked around I wouldn't expect them to do much for the county team, the lack of uproar over the club fixture issue is evidence of the nature of club delegates IMO.

[Bud Wiser]

Now with all due respects are people seriously suggesting that the 200 clubs in cork are all a herd of sheep who vote en bloc for this crew.

Exactly, that is the bit I can't understand.  I am confused to say the least.  However, this thing needs to be sorted in the next weeks or there will be a lot more than the young lad with the hurl taking up soccer.

Indiana, I think Baily is on the way back, watch out.