McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.

Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.

[stephenite]

Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

We have disagreed before Zulu and I am not going back over old ground. I know you support the players and like others in Cork have a view of the CB that is negative. However I do think that your simplistic conclusion on what led to last years strike deserves clarification for others on this board.

At a CB meeting (think it was Oct '07) Bob Honohan proposed a motion that in future selectors would be appointed by the CB and not by the manager. His proposal was based on an argument that management of county teams had become totally seperate from the CB and this was detrimental to the club scene especially with regard to fixtures. His proposal was supported by a very large majority (I forget the exact number). At a subsequent meeting after the players had threatened strike the delegates to the CB again supported the motion.

For what its worth I think the motion was ill advised and would do nothing to sort problems with club fixtures. But I do not believe that it was done to annoy the players or that there was anything underhand.  Unlike you Zulu (and Reillers) I respect other peoples views and I respect the views of the delegates who voted for this. And the delegates who voted for this are not sheep who just vote for anything proposed - they voted based on what they thought best for Cork GAA. These are the facts as to what happened - you may interpret it as idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded but I believe it was well intentioned though mistaken. I might also add that I do not believe that the right of managers to appoint selectors is sacrosant and written in stone - some managers just appoint a few yes men around them. A better system would be that when managers are appointed that they also have their backroom team approved at the same time.

There it is in bold - that's what's really at stake here, the entire structure of the association and the right of every club to have a say.

[stevetharlear]

Why was it allright for Ben O'Connor to go, along with other Cork hurlers, to City West Hotel to the GPA All-Star Awards and accept awards as a Cork Hurler while the Cork Footballers refused to accept their Munster medals?    Why?

Yes, the Cork hurlers are not in dispute with the GPA, they are in a dispute with the Cork County Board. The Munster medal ceremony is being organised by the Cork County Board, and the footballers want to show a bit of solidarity with their comrades who stood with them last year when it was needed.

I would have thought the answer to this question would've been obvious in fairness.

[Reillers]

Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

We have disagreed before Zulu and I am not going back over old ground. I know you support the players and like others in Cork have a view of the CB that is negative. However I do think that your simplistic conclusion on what led to last years strike deserves clarification for others on this board.

At a CB meeting (think it was Oct '07) Bob Honohan proposed a motion that in future selectors would be appointed by the CB and not by the manager. His proposal was t based on an argument that management of county teams had become totally seTje agree,emyperate from the CB and this was detrimental to the club scene especially with regard to fixtures. His proposal was supported by a very large majority (I forget the exact number). At a subsequent meeting after the players had threatened strike the delegates to the CB again supported the motion.

For what its worth I think the motion was ill advised and would do nothing to sort problems with club fixtures. But I do not believe that it was done to annoy the players or that there was anything underhand. 
No it was just a mere coincidence. Come on, you can't be that naive
Unlike you Zulu (and Reillers) I respect other peoples views and I respect the views of the delegates who voted for this. And the delegates who voted for this are not sheep who just vote for anything proposed - they voted based on what they thought best for Cork GAA.Yet everyone nearly in that room voted in the complete opposite direction a few weeks later..again a mere coincidence. These are the facts as to what happened - you may interpret it as idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded but I believe it was well intentioned though mistaken. I might also add that I do not believe that the right of managers to appoint selectors is sacrosant and written in stone - some managers just appoint a few yes men around them. A better system would be that when managers are appointed that they also have their backroom team approved at the same time.

[Reillers]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional O Grady was exceptional and Allen was a decent manager, both of which manage to counter Kilkenny tactics and come up with or continue tactics that won them finals and were equal to success, what did McCarthy do in his two years?? Nothing brought back in the long ball game that was useless, he didn't work to counter Kk's game, he gave no structure or guidance, nothing, and when the players tried to vary that tactic when it was working they were dropped - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.
This team is creaking but it has fantastic young players that have been banging down the door for a year or so, now I fear we'll never see them play again, I also think, on another note that KK can only go one way from now on and that's down, that team has been on the road for a long time, and will be on the road down hill, like you said, no team endures forever and not even Cody can prevent what is happening to Cork and what will happen to KK
Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.
No there's not, there are no other ways of protest in Cork that will get you any attention from the CB, nothing but this gets any attention or notice. All of this if I remember rightly is a protest in the way in which McCarthy was reappointed by the board, mcCarthy has made this more about him then it was meant to be and he is no innocent in this and has insulted the players and lied more then the players have even spoken to the media.

[INDIANA]

Reillers the biggest insult was when a  player asked Mc Carthy why at his age he'd want to be managing a team. I think that was the lowest of the low. Regardless of mc carthy's standing as a good/bad coach, that was pathetic.

[Reillers]

Reillers the biggest insult was when a  player asked Mc Carthy why at his age he'd want to be managing a team. I think that was the lowest of the low. Regardless of mc carthy's standing as a good/bad coach, that was pathetic.

And McCarthy has said some pretty insulting things to the players and about the players....imo the lowest of the low, the thing that has destroyed everything was when McCarthy leaked the document. But hey, that's my opinnion.

But like I said he's said some pretty insulting things to them.
Pot, kettle, black.

[orangeman]

Reillers the biggest insult was when a  player asked Mc Carthy why at his age he'd want to be managing a team. I think that was the lowest of the low. Regardless of mc carthy's standing as a good/bad coach, that was pathetic.

Sean Og was the gentleman who asked him what he wanted all the hassle of managing a team at his time of day !!!! Ill judged but that's what you're dealing with  - Mc Carthy at no stage insulted any Cork player -

[orangeman]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional O Grady was exceptional and Allen was a decent manager, both of which manage to counter Kilkenny tactics and come up with or continue tactics that won them finals and were equal to success, what did McCarthy do in his two years?? Nothing brought back in the long ball game that was useless, he didn't work to counter Kk's game, he gave no structure or guidance, nothing, and when the players tried to vary that tactic when it was working they were dropped - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.
This team is creaking but it has fantastic young players that have been banging down the door for a year or so, now I fear we'll never see them play again, I also think, on another note that KK can only go one way from now on and that's down, that team has been on the road for a long time, and will be on the road down hill, like you said, no team endures forever and not even Cody can prevent what is happening to Cork and what will happen to KK
Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.
No there's not, there are no other ways of protest in Cork that will get you any attention from the CB, nothing but this gets any attention or notice. All of this if I remember rightly is a protest in the way in which McCarthy was reappointed by the board, mcCarthy has made this more about him then it was meant to be and he is no innocent in this and has insulted the players and lied more then the players have even spoken to the media.

Reillers, why oh why do Cork hurlers believe that they are unique in that they feel they have to strike ?? They're bringing undue attention on themselves, the county and the association. There are other forms of protest  -the footballers aren't going to the medal ceremony. That's a form of protest.

[Reillers]

Reillers the biggest insult was when a  player asked Mc Carthy why at his age he'd want to be managing a team. I think that was the lowest of the low. Regardless of mc carthy's standing as a good/bad coach, that was pathetic.

Sean Og was the gentleman who asked him what he wanted all the hassle of managing a team at his time of day !!!! Ill judged but that's what you're dealing with  - Mc Carthy at no stage insulted any Cork player -

Sure.

[Reillers]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

This is where I believe the Cork players are entirely wrong. Whilst the players obviously have legimitate ways to air and expose their grievances, I believe that striking is the wrong way to deal with any dispute. Strikes are those who are employed to do a job. Maybe the Cork players feel they're in a job but going out on strike just turns people off, especially when you've signed up to a deal less than a year ago that you wouldn't go down the same road again.

The Cork players / panel have equated strike action with success - you alluded to it yourself - providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years - Now I'm not accusing you of thinking the same way before you come back at me - but the players believe that striking actually brings the best out in them, by driving them on, motivating them etc etc. The Cork team of 2002 - 2005 was exceptional - the managers weren't exceptional O Grady was exceptional and Allen was a decent manager, both of which manage to counter Kilkenny tactics and come up with or continue tactics that won them finals and were equal to success, what did McCarthy do in his two years?? Nothing brought back in the long ball game that was useless, he didn't work to counter Kk's game, he gave no structure or guidance, nothing, and when the players tried to vary that tactic when it was working they were dropped - the Cork hurlers are at the moment 2nd best to KK - As I've said to you before, there's no shame in being 2nd best to a KK team that is on top of its game - but no team is invincible as KK proved when denying Cork their 3 in a row - and neither are KK and maybe Cork can turn them over in 2009 - who knows - but they can't go on forever. No team endures forever.
This team is creaking but it has fantastic young players that have been banging down the door for a year or so, now I fear we'll never see them play again, I also think, on another note that KK can only go one way from now on and that's down, that team has been on the road for a long time, and will be on the road down hill, like you said, no team endures forever and not even Cody can prevent what is happening to Cork and what will happen to KK
Cork hurlers have adopted the wrong form of protest - there are other ways of protest - and to jeopardise your relatively short inter county career isn't worth it, given the service that some of these lads have given. They've went about it the wrong way and whilst maybe not intentionally have picked a fight with the wrong man, have insulted one of the greatest living legends in Cork hurling and this doesn't sit well with them or GAA supporters who still respect the greats.
No there's not, there are no other ways of protest in Cork that will get you any attention from the CB, nothing but this gets any attention or notice. All of this if I remember rightly is a protest in the way in which McCarthy was reappointed by the board, mcCarthy has made this more about him then it was meant to be and he is no innocent in this and has insulted the players and lied more then the players have even spoken to the media.

Reillers, why oh why do Cork hurlers believe that they are unique in that they feel they have to strike ?? They're bringing undue attention on themselves, the county and the association. There are other forms of protest  -the footballers aren't going to the medal ceremony. That's a form of protest.

What else are they supposed to do. They are in a bad position, they take things into their own hands. Something wrong with that or is it how dare they step out of line of the status quo.
Other forms of protest, please, nothing gets the CBs attention, this barely does it. The protesting the footballers are doing, that's more for the hurlers then the CB.

[stevetharlear]

Reillers the biggest insult was when a  player asked Mc Carthy why at his age he'd want to be managing a team. I think that was the lowest of the low. Regardless of mc carthy's standing as a good/bad coach, that was pathetic.

Sean Og was the gentleman who asked him what he wanted all the hassle of managing a team at his time of day !!!! Ill judged but that's what you're dealing with  - Mc Carthy at no stage insulted any Cork player -

Sean Og/ Niall McCarthy, all the same in your book eh OM?

[stevetharlear]

I'm not sure that any of the hurlers have said they'd go back if Ger Mac resigned. I'm sure a few of them have said that they'd never play under him again but how have people jumped on this as their reason for striking.

Who's to say that they won't stop at that and that they are doing it for the betterment of Cork GAA, and not just for selfish reasons as is being put forward here.

Personally I hope they stay out until they're paid to play.

[orangeman]

I'm not sure that any of the hurlers have said they'd go back if Ger Mac resigned. I'm sure a few of them have said that they'd never play under him again but how have people jumped on this as their reason for striking.

Who's to say that they won't stop at that and that they are doing it for the betterment of Cork GAA, and not just for selfish reasons as is being put forward here.


Sure !

[orangeman]

Reillers the biggest insult was when a  player asked Mc Carthy why at his age he'd want to be managing a team. I think that was the lowest of the low. Regardless of mc carthy's standing as a good/bad coach, that was pathetic.

Sean Og was the gentleman who asked him what he wanted all the hassle of managing a team at his time of day !!!! Ill judged but that's what you're dealing with  - Mc Carthy at no stage insulted any Cork player -

Sean Og/ Niall McCarthy, all the same in your book eh OM?

As in ?