McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[theskull1]

The players said, I've said, the whole bloody country has said that the players said that they will go back if McCarthy goes, you know that. Do I think the real problem is McCarthy..no I think the real problem is Frank Murphy. But it's what the players say.

The whole bloody country ? You're delusional and so are the players if they think Mc Carthy is going to run away from a few lads that have lost the run of themselves and who patently are more interested in a few freebies than pulling on a Cork jersey. 

Everyone knows that the players have said that they will come back if McCarthy is gone. What's the problem there. McCarthy is too stuborn to leave. He's left his egp get in the way, his hurt pride, he's not seeing things clearly. He's staying on princepal now because he's wounded. But every great manager knows when it's time to leave, when they can't bring the club or county or whatever, any further and he's either failed to see that or ignores it. But he's bloody lucky, if he was in a county where the CB did their job he'd have been fired by now. And that's the truth.

You're such a bullshitter like, you say you've no problem with the players, grow a set and tell the truth. They aren't interested in the freebies and you really are just talking through you ass at this stage.

Cork hurling is dying, with or without these players, it's just a question of how fast. The players represent the resistance against the CB. It's not about if these players go Cork will fall to bits because these selective players aren't there on the pitch, but it's what they stand for. Ye think I'm exagerating, ye think that it's bullshit, that's fine, but I guarantee you, it will plumet, Pairc Ui Caoimh is a sign of the running of the Cork GAA. The CB think that they can do whatever they want to do, they want complete control and the only ones standing in the way of that is the players.

They want complete control and I, along with so many people, have said that. Control over success. They would, and I honest to God mean this, have this current bunch of players gone, and these kids at the front and take whatever results come with them, then success with these players.

You don't think that it's a little bit strange that everyone who has gone into the intercounty scene has ran out or fought..Justin McCarthy was chased out with pitch forks by the CB, he said he would NEVER work with the CB again, and that was for a reason, every single players since 2002 has stood and fought, and every manager who's left has never once had a nice word to say about the CB. Why is that, it's not just 15 players, it's everyone for the past 6 years, and you've also since the 70s had problems with the team and the CB. Now what oh what has all of these things in common..what is the common denominator since the 70s..Frank Murphy. The only thing that has changed is the players have become more rebelious, and ya, more modern, and they no longer will put up with being treated like crap and expected to play at the top level as well. They have become more modern, more politicised..and..

"The more politicised players become, the more they're likely to revolt"..

"The sky is falling the sky is falling"

Where are we again Reillers? The Dark Knights otherwise known as the striking players will sell their souls and come back if Ger McCarthy jumps but they really know that the CB is the real problem. WTF? Principles where? What about everyone else they claim to be trying to save? Clarification please

Bump

[orangeman]

Maybe some of this article is apt?
http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=TOM+MCGURK-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqid=38416-qqqx=1.asp

something of unique value in the sporting world has been maintained - beliefs that are intrinsically about more than just sport continue to be asserted. We are all richer as a result.

Not if the lads in Cork have their way !

I'm sorry now, I've put up with your bull, disrespectfull non biased coments for 90 plus pages where you try to put together a paragraph of factless creap, where you have been making points that are wrong and you own opinion, but that is just wrong.
This team clearly you have no respect and hate this team, and don't insult me, by saying that you don't, because clearly you do. These Cork players will do anything for Cork, they will put their bodies on the line, they want to win, this is what all of this has been about. You stand there and you blab on and on with no proof, no facts and anytime anyones asked you a tricky question or about the game and players themselves you've shown you don't really have an idea of what's going on. But these players, and it is so evident by their preformances this year (and years and years before that) will do anything for Cork, anything.

So what, they want the best, but too many joes think that they should have to put up with this ya the set ups shit, deal with it, shut up or put up attitude.
Cork is unique, and what CORK, Munster and Tyrone have in common is their fans, and the belief of the team, the fight for the parish, the pure passion, Cork unites for it. It's been said so many times by different people from different counties that Cork fans are the best in the country, these players represent the parish, the towns, the Cork GAA public and the years of work their clubs have put into them and them into the clubs.

What right have you to say otherwise. You have bitched and cried about the Cork players, gone on and on and on for 90 pages, based on your opinion alone, no fact or proof or anything but opinion to back it up, you've got the wrong impression of these Cork lads completley and I'm betting you've never once spent 5 seconds with any of them, and you've never once been on the pitch at the final whistle, the Galway match represents what Cork is really about. Real fighters, real Rebels, real players.
What the hell gives you the right.

I'm living in Reillersland !!!!!!!     I talk bull all the time - I know f--k all !!!! I haven't a clue ! I hate the team !!!!! 

CATCH A GRIP REILLERS - YOU'RE NOW AN EMBARASSMENT AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT !!!!! AND I HAVE PROOF !! YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN !!

And yet again for what has to be atleast the 100th time you don't reply to a post, why because you have no reply!!

You do know f**k all, you don't know who half the players are. You think that the players who have been on goof form have been playing badly, you probably looked in google and picked four random senior players, of course then crosschecked their age because you probably wouldn't know that either. How about next week we'll go over what a hurley looks like.
Grow a pair and reply to the bloody posts.

Please Reillers, please you're a lot smarter than this, or can you not see beyond the borders of Reillersland


Grow a pair, you haven't a clue - is that how you answer all your posts



Tatler Jack put it better than any of us.


You and the hurlers are living in a fantasyland. I know it might be comfortable and cosy, where everyone agrees with you and you're all 100% correct, 100% of the time, but the garage owners are coming to look their cars back.

It's time to sit down.


But I think you've realised that yourself.


I notice you DON'T WANT Mc Carthy to resign now ?? Is that right Why the sudden change of heart ?

[Tatler Jack]

These men are making a hash of it, ye speculate, but it's just that, speculation. Ye are making comments like this, oh high and mighty and all knowing, but where's your proof. There are people who give up their free time for the GAA, I am one of them, I presume that most on here are as well, but the men who are doing f**k the men who are the problem, are the ones who are getting paid, and not doing their job.

Reillers I am not clear at all on what point you are trying to make here and what standard of "proof" you are looking for. As far as I know there is one paid official in Cork and the rest of the officers are volunteers. You have consistently insulted, demeaned and called in to question the competence and integrity of these people. And you have done this because part of your logic and that of the players is that all this problem is caused by the CB and that the players and their supporters are fighting a noble battle for the future of Cork GAA.  What I attempted to do in my post was to show that the players over the past few years have created 2 worlds – one that they inhabit where everything is perfect, professional and meeting some sort of ISO equivalent for the GAA. To sustain this fantasy they have created another image of Cork CB and anyone who dares to support them as being stuck in the 19th century, lacking ambition and essentially being more interested in power than the future of the GAA. 
This might be fine if you can make the CB some sort of abstract concept. But the CB is not an abstract concept – it is composed of people who have been elected (except for the Secretary) ,have volunteered their time and who for the most part are decent people. The incoming Chairman Jerry O'Sullivan has given huge service to the GAA and is father of Diarmuid and Paudie. Would you tell him to his face he is making a hash of it or many of the other things you have said hereabout the CB.

And why shouldn't there be perfection, it can be reached to an extent, well not perfection because nothing can be perfect but good even would do, but typical GAA old as time attitude as sure shite will do.

I could get into a philosophical or even theological debate with you Reillers over what is perfection and if it can be attained in this world but I won't. First I do not subscribe to "any shite will do approach" but again this is a convenient and lazy label to put on people. It is nearly 40 years now since I first got involved in the GAA and I never once heard anybody advocating anything less than what they thought was best and within the realities of the situation and resources at the time. I also met many hurlers on the ditch or bar stool lawyers who could tell you what was wrong, what should be done but never contributed in any real way. And in my post I was pointing out that my idea of perfection and yours could radically differ – we could have different perspectives on what constitutes perfection.
There are lots of things in my own club that I feel could be improved on. I will try in my own way to improve what I can, make suggestions as to what can be done and contribute a bit of time and a few bob. I will not turn up at a meeting with my concept of perfection, insult people who have done a lot more for the club than I ever have and tell them that the problem is that they have the "typical GAA old as time attitude as sure shite will do". I am also conscious of the fact that this same accusation was made against many of the people who are responsible for the development of Croke Park.
And while on this subject Reillers and at the risk of sounding patronising I think you should avoid resorting to cliché,  stereotypes and lazy analysis when constructing an argument.

That's bull, the process wasn't followed, hence why we are here. Their actions have been to do with the CBs appointment of the manager. It wasn't followed. It wasn't even used as a guideline, they do what they always do, what they want and they get away with it.

I have listened to detailed descriptions of all 5 meetings and as far as I can see the agreed process was followed. If you can outline to me what was not done correctly  I might revise my opinion but you will have to do better than this bit of generalisation.

On the question of democracy in the GAA well it might have its flaws but no more than the democratic system has flaws in political life as well. The piece you quote from the Indo is hardly unbiased analytical and like yourself resorts to stereotyping using terms such as a small cabal and calling ordinary delegates "yes men". Anyway for better or worse the democratic system we have for the moment has to prevail until replaced by a better system – you cannot just conveniently throw it aside because it does not suit you now. (For what it's worth I think an overhaul of GAA structures, CB composition is worth considering throughout the organisation)

The players are going to sit down and talk, they have, or so I've been told, sit down for talks. Gerald Mac won't be forced to resign, I hope he isn't, I don't think he should have got the job in the first place, not to mention kept it, but he shouldn't be forced to resign. But I can't see what will both sides agree on.

I believe that they are not being led astray by the older players, that they care a lot about this, as much as the older players do. But if the senior players pushed them in the direction of the team then they could go back.

I respect your opinion I do, but like clearly there's massive differences in oppinions here. Maybe I have little perspective which does cloud my judgement more then a small bit, but some of the things said on here are wrong and unfair on the players.

If the players are prepared to get involved in talks then I welcome it. It is a pity that when efforts were made a few weeks back to convene talks that the players stonewalled the efforts but that is water under the bridge now.
I welcome your opinion Reillers and I sincerely recognise your passion for Cork hurling and your loyalty to the players. But sometimes loyalty is best served by telling those you are loyal to that they are mistaken and that also getting change will not come about by revolution but by trying to bring people with you.

And by the way, I respect your opinion, so don't you patronize me because you have an OPINION, and that's all it is, an opinion, like so many others, with no fact or proof whatsoever.

Apologies if you felt patronised but my post was intended to show that the players and those supporting them have over exaggerated issues wittingly or unwittingly to support their perspective. In fact Reillers one of the things about this group of players that has annoyed a lot of people in Cork and beyond is this image they have created that somehow they have brought hurling and the whole area of preparation to a new level and that everything that went before them was of the "Mickey Mouse" variety.

And this brings me to one of your posts today Reillers about Cork being something special, having the best fans, etc etc. This is fine stuff when you have a few pints on board, Cork have beaten Tipp and someone is murdering"De Banks". But when you start to believe that sort of jingoistic guff then you have a problem. Of course your own parish, your own county and your own team are special to everybody and I this is something I admire. But Cork is no more a special place nor are its fans than Carlow, Leitrim or Cavan. In fact I would argue that the best GAA supporters are often in the smaller less successful counties where you get people who travel the length and breadth of the country supporting their team even though they might be playing in Division 3 or 4. Cork people ar lucky – it is a large county with a strong GAA tradition and thus has always been relatively successful and able to give its supporters more days out in Croke Park than many smaller counties. Be thankful for this and hope it will continue but don't start believing that somehow there is a greater passion or loyalty in Cork than anywhere else. (I should say that Cork support for league games and for games involving minor and U21 teams is poor enough – I know because I attend most of them)

I have asked for proof or fact or evidence that suggest that Cork GAA isn't dying, (which it is, with or without these players) or that the CB aren't trying to gain full control. Everyone on here as bitched and whinged about the players, hate full, spitefull posts, now all I'm asking is some evidence, proof and facts to back it up. Because I have to honestly believe that there is no way that all of their spitefull bitter posts have been based purely on opinion.

Not sure what you mean here. I have given my opinion based on my own analysis of the situation without any spite or hatred towards anybody. I have met a few of the Cork players over the past couple of years and two of them in particular were very helpful to me when I asked them a favour. One of them is quite a high profile person in the current dispute and I have met him on quite a few occassions over the years and we have had good discussions about hurling in general. If I met him today I would still respect him but would also try and get him to see the other side of the argument and also get him to realise that whatever gripes he might have he would be a foolish person to abandon his playing career on a very debatable  issue of dubious principle. When your playing years are gone they do not come back.

[Reillers]

Maybe some of this article is apt?
http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=TOM+MCGURK-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqid=38416-qqqx=1.asp

something of unique value in the sporting world has been maintained - beliefs that are intrinsically about more than just sport continue to be asserted. We are all richer as a result.

Not if the lads in Cork have their way !

I'm sorry now, I've put up with your bull, disrespectfull non biased coments for 90 plus pages where you try to put together a paragraph of factless creap, where you have been making points that are wrong and you own opinion, but that is just wrong.
This team clearly you have no respect and hate this team, and don't insult me, by saying that you don't, because clearly you do. These Cork players will do anything for Cork, they will put their bodies on the line, they want to win, this is what all of this has been about. You stand there and you blab on and on with no proof, no facts and anytime anyones asked you a tricky question or about the game and players themselves you've shown you don't really have an idea of what's going on. But these players, and it is so evident by their preformances this year (and years and years before that) will do anything for Cork, anything.

So what, they want the best, but too many joes think that they should have to put up with this ya the set ups shit, deal with it, shut up or put up attitude.
Cork is unique, and what CORK, Munster and Tyrone have in common is their fans, and the belief of the team, the fight for the parish, the pure passion, Cork unites for it. It's been said so many times by different people from different counties that Cork fans are the best in the country, these players represent the parish, the towns, the Cork GAA public and the years of work their clubs have put into them and them into the clubs.

What right have you to say otherwise. You have bitched and cried about the Cork players, gone on and on and on for 90 pages, based on your opinion alone, no fact or proof or anything but opinion to back it up, you've got the wrong impression of these Cork lads completley and I'm betting you've never once spent 5 seconds with any of them, and you've never once been on the pitch at the final whistle, the Galway match represents what Cork is really about. Real fighters, real Rebels, real players.
What the hell gives you the right.

I'm living in Reillersland !!!!!!!     I talk bull all the time - I know f--k all !!!! I haven't a clue ! I hate the team !!!!! 

CATCH A GRIP REILLERS - YOU'RE NOW AN EMBARASSMENT AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT !!!!! AND I HAVE PROOF !! YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN !!

And yet again for what has to be atleast the 100th time you don't reply to a post, why because you have no reply!!

You do know f**k all, you don't know who half the players are. You think that the players who have been on goof form have been playing badly, you probably looked in google and picked four random senior players, of course then crosschecked their age because you probably wouldn't know that either. How about next week we'll go over what a hurley looks like.
Grow a pair and reply to the bloody posts.

Please Reillers, please you're a lot smarter than this, or can you not see beyond the borders of Reillersland


Grow a pair, you haven't a clue - is that how you answer all your posts



Tatler Jack put it better than any of us.


You and the hurlers are living in a fantasyland. I know it might be comfortable and cosy, where everyone agrees with you and you're all 100% correct, 100% of the time, but the garage owners are coming to look their cars back.

It's time to sit down.


But I think you've realised that yourself.


I notice you DON'T WANT Mc Carthy to resign now ?? Is that right Why the sudden change of heart ?

Yet again you continue to ignore it and shock horror reply to my posts. WOW.
At least can you come up with your own reply and response then taking TJs posts and changing a few words around.

AND I've never wanted McCarthy to be forced into resigning if you read any of my posts you'd realise that. But no, you read what you want to read, (and don't reply to the rest.)
McCarthy never should have gotten the job in the first place and I want him gone but he shouldn't be forced to resign through these talks. He should never have been given the job again after his failings. He should have been fired for the right reasons..not for this though. The CB should have done the right thing, instead they rehired him for one reason and one reason only, to bring down the players.

He should have been fired for the right reasons, but if he's made step down now..it'll just prove what we've known for a long time, it'll show the CB for what they really are, because if they are willing to make him resign now, instead of a few months ago, they could have saved us all this grief and hastle, but the truth is they didn't want to, they could have, but they didn't want to.
They wanted to degrade the players, make them powerless, make them hated. And they've succeeded. At least they'll be shown for what they are.

[Reillers]

These men are making a hash of it, ye speculate, but it's just that, speculation. Ye are making comments like this, oh high and mighty and all knowing, but where's your proof. There are people who give up their free time for the GAA, I am one of them, I presume that most on here are as well, but the men who are doing f**k all are the men who are the problem, are the ones who are getting paid, and not doing their job.

Reillers I am not clear at all on what point you are trying to make here and what standard of "proof" you are looking for. As far as I know there is one paid official in Cork and the rest of the officers are volunteers. You have consistently insulted, demeaned and called in to question the competence and integrity of these people. And you have done this because part of your logic and that of the players is that all this problem is caused by the CB and that the players and their supporters are fighting a noble battle for the future of Cork GAA.  What I attempted to do in my post was to show that the players over the past few years have created 2 worlds – one that they inhabit where everything is perfect, professional and meeting some sort of ISO equivalent for the GAA. To sustain this fantasy they have created another image of Cork CB and anyone who dares to support them as being stuck in the 19th century, lacking ambition and essentially being more interested in power than the future of the GAA. 

Proof, well everyone on here as bitched about the players and the situation, and to speculate on the that is one thing. But when I say that the Cork GAA is falling to bits they say that's bull shit, that it's not true..but I'd like to know where their proof is??
They say that the CB aren't out to bring down the players, I'd like to ask where is their proof that they aren't??
They say that the players haven't the best intentions of Cork at heart

..Where's their proof for that, because last time I checked there was overwhelming proof to show otherwise on all 3 counts.

This might be fine if you can make the CB some sort of abstract concept. But the CB is not an abstract concept – it is composed of people who have been elected (except for the Secretary) ,have volunteered their time and who for the most part are decent people. The incoming Chairman Jerry O'Sullivan has given huge service to the GAA and is father of Diarmuid and Paudie. Would you tell him to his face he is making a hash of it or many of the other things you have said hereabout the CB.

The "Except for the Secretary" is the vital part, and key to why the GAA in Cork is in such a shambolic state, him and his friends, who like him are fossils and hell bent on keeping Cork the way they want it. In the state it is in, with no effort whatsoever to change it. And INCOMING chairman, is just that incoming, he hopefully will do some good. Would I tell him he's making a hash of things to his face..no, he's just taken up the job, would I tell Frank Murphy, without a shadow of a doubt I'd tell him and therewould be a cue the length of Cork behind me.

And why shouldn't there be perfection, it can be reached to an extent, well not perfection because nothing can be perfect but good even would do, but typical GAA old as time attitude as sure shite will do.

I could get into a philosophical or even theological debate with you Reillers over what is perfection and if it can be attained in this world but I won't. First I do not subscribe to "any shite will do approach" but again this is a convenient and lazy label to put on people. It is nearly 40 years now since I first got involved in the GAA and I never once heard anybody advocating anything less than what they thought was best and within the realities of the situation and resources at the time. I also met many hurlers on the ditch or bar stool lawyers who could tell you what was wrong, what should be done but never contributed in any real way. And in my post I was pointing out that my idea of perfection and yours could radically differ – we could have different perspectives on what constitutes perfection.

But that's the way the board act in Cork. Sure any shite will do once we say so, we're in charge, we're the ones who say what goes in Cork and NO ONE can tell us otherwise.What's right, and what they think is best are two completley different things

There are lots of things in my own club that I feel could be improved on. I will try in my own way to improve what I can, make suggestions as to what can be done and contribute a bit of time and a few bob. I will not turn up at a meeting with my concept of perfection, insult people who have done a lot more for the club than I ever have and tell them that the problem is that they have the "typical GAA old as time attitude as sure shite will do". I am also conscious of the fact that this same accusation was made against many of the people who are responsible for the development of Croke Park.
And while on this subject Reillers and at the risk of sounding patronising I think you should avoid resorting to cliché,  stereotypes and lazy analysis when constructing an argument.
We do our best in Cork, at my club anyway, we do our best, and that's all anyone can ask for, I'm not asking for perfect, especially not from the clubs because in Cork they are struggling desperatly, the best is done and we're scraping by, but we're getting by, by a lot of work from everyone, we do our best, I give as much as I can, everyone does, you can't really ask for more from anyone.
But the CB, do what they want to do, and if that's shite, then so what, it's what they say goes. If they refuse to fix our pitch then that's their call, even though, oh the plans are in place..for years..ah sure we'll get around to it one day.  
When I say the best, I mean the best, the CB if they wanted could give us an excellent manager, and an excellent set up, the players are there. But no, instead, they give us nothing special. They could do better, a lot better, but at the end of the day..they don't want to.

That's bull, the process wasn't followed, hence why we are here. Their actions have been to do with the CBs appointment of the manager. It wasn't followed. It wasn't even used as a guideline, they do what they always do, what they want and they get away with it.

I have listened to detailed descriptions of all 5 meetings and as far as I can see the agreed process was followed. If you can outline to me what was not done correctly  I might revise my opinion but you will have to do better than this bit of generalisation.

On the question of democracy in the GAA well it might have its flaws but no more than the democratic system has flaws in political life as well. The piece you quote from the Indo is hardly unbiased analytical and like yourself resorts to stereotyping using terms such as a small cabal and calling ordinary delegates "yes men". Anyway for better or worse the democratic system we have for the moment has to prevail until replaced by a better system – you cannot just conveniently throw it aside because it does not suit you now. (For what it's worth I think an overhaul of GAA structures, CB composition is worth considering throughout the organisation)

How do you know it's biased?? The Indo is the Indo, I'd say something if it was the Examiner or the Echo, but it's not. He's right, the GAA's version of democracy is not right, it's not democracy. What he's said is true, factually right. People look at something, don't agree with it, so they call it biased and it's been done on here again and again. Could it not be the truth, because that article is pretty bang on. You read two lines of the article and you call it biased.

The players are going to sit down and talk, they have, or so I've been told, sit down for talks. Gerald Mac won't be forced to resign, I hope he isn't, I don't think he should have got the job in the first place, not to mention kept it, but he shouldn't be forced to resign. But I can't see what will both sides agree on.

I believe that they are not being led astray by the older players, that they care a lot about this, as much as the older players do. But if the senior players pushed them in the direction of the team then they could go back.

I respect your opinion I do, but like clearly there's massive differences in oppinions here. Maybe I have little perspective which does cloud my judgement more then a small bit, but some of the things said on here are wrong and unfair on the players.

If the players are prepared to get involved in talks then I welcome it. It is a pity that when efforts were made a few weeks back to convene talks that the players stonewalled the efforts but that is water under the bridge now.

And the circumstances of that are gone untold again, the team wasn't able to meet last time. Too many commitments, Ga was on holidats and such..

I welcome your opinion Reillers and I sincerely recognise your passion for Cork hurling and your loyalty to the players. But sometimes loyalty is best served by telling those you are loyal to that they are mistaken and that also getting change will not come about by revolution but by trying to bring people with you.

And by the way, I respect your opinion, so don't you patronize me because you have an OPINION, and that's all it is, an opinion, like so many others, with no fact or proof whatsoever.

Apologies if you felt patronised but my post was intended to show that the players and those supporting them have over exaggerated issues wittingly or unwittingly to support their perspective. In fact Reillers one of the things about this group of players that has annoyed a lot of people in Cork and beyond is this image they have created that somehow they have brought hurling and the whole area of preparation to a new level and that everything that went before them was of the "Mickey Mouse" variety.

And this brings me to one of your posts today Reillers about Cork being something special, having the best fans, etc etc. This is fine stuff when you have a few pints on board, Cork have beaten Tipp and someone is murdering"De Banks". But when you start to believe that sort of jingoistic guff then you have a problem. Of course your own parish, your own county and your own team are special to everybody and I this is something I admire. But Cork is no more a special place nor are its fans than Carlow, Leitrim or Cavan. In fact I would argue that the best GAA supporters are often in the smaller less successful counties where you get people who travel the length and breadth of the country supporting their team even though they might be playing in Division 3 or 4. Cork people ar lucky – it is a large county with a strong GAA tradition and thus has always been relatively successful and able to give its supporters more days out in Croke Park than many smaller counties. Be thankful for this and hope it will continue but don't start believing that somehow there is a greater passion or loyalty in Cork than anywhere else. (I should say that Cork support for league games and for games involving minor and U21 teams is poor enough – I know because I attend most of them)

I have asked for proof or fact or evidence that suggest that Cork GAA isn't dying, (which it is, with or without these players) or that the CB aren't trying to gain full control. Everyone on here as bitched and whinged about the players, hate full, spitefull posts, now all I'm asking is some evidence, proof and facts to back it up. Because I have to honestly believe that there is no way that all of their spitefull bitter posts have been based purely on opinion.

Not sure what you mean here. I have given my opinion based on my own analysis of the situation without any spite or hatred towards anybody. I have met a few of the Cork players over the past couple of years and two of them in particular were very helpful to me when I asked them a favour. One of them is quite a high profile person in the current dispute and I have met him on quite a few occassions over the years and we have had good discussions about hurling in general. If I met him today I would still respect him but would also try and get him to see the other side of the argument and also get him to realise that whatever gripes he might have he would be a foolish person to abandon his playing career on a very debatable  issue of dubious principle. When your playing years are gone they do not come back.

[orangeman]

The most commonly used phrases in Reillersland :


1. You haven't ansered my questions.
2. You know f--k all - you haven't a clue and are biased..
3. Cork GAA is dying.
4. The players are as honest as the day is long - all they want is what's best for Cork hurling.
5. Mc Carthy is a bad manager, a liar and a legend.
6. But it's all Frank's fault.
7. The county board delegates are yes men who under threat from Frank.
8. Have you any proof for that last statement - if you haven't you're telling lies ( like Mc Carthy ).
9. The players are blameless in all of this. They're totally honourable and have earned all the little perks they have.



Are they looking to be chauffeur driven ?.

[Reillers]

The most commonly used phrases in Reillersland :


1. You haven't ansered my questions. And yet again you don't.
2. You know f--k all - you haven't a clue and are biased..
3. Cork GAA is dying.
4. The players are as honest as the day is long - all they want is what's best for Cork hurling.
5. Mc Carthy is a bad manager, a liar and a legend.
6. But it's all Frank's fault.
7. The county board delegates are yes men who under threat from Frank.
8. Have you any proof for that last statement - if you haven't you're telling lies ( like Mc Carthy ).
9. The players are blameless in all of this. They're totally honourable and have earned all the little perks they have.



Are they looking to be chauffeur driven ?.

f**k you OM. Be childish if you want. But you continue to proove my point, you don't reply to my posts because you have no answer, because you are clueless, because you have no clue about hurling or these Cork players.

[orangeman]

The most commonly used phrases in Reillersland :


1. You haven't ansered my questions. And yet again you don't.
2. You know f--k all - you haven't a clue and are biased..
3. Cork GAA is dying.
4. The players are as honest as the day is long - all they want is what's best for Cork hurling.
5. Mc Carthy is a bad manager, a liar and a legend.
6. But it's all Frank's fault.
7. The county board delegates are yes men who under threat from Frank.
8. Have you any proof for that last statement - if you haven't you're telling lies ( like Mc Carthy ).
9. The players are blameless in all of this. They're totally honourable and have earned all the little perks they have.



Are they looking to be chauffeur driven ?.

f**k you OM. Be childish if you want. But you continue to proove my point, you don't reply to my posts because you have no answer, because you are clueless, because you have no clue about hurling or these Cork players.

Thank you Reillers.

You've learned a new phrase in the debate - f--k you - that's good. Congratulations.


And you're right - I haven't a clue about Cork hurling or the players - you're absolutely right.

You're winning this debate hands down. 

[Tatler Jack]

Proof, well everyone on here as bitched about the players and the situation, and to speculate on the that is one thing. But when I say that the Cork GAA is falling to bits they say that's bull shit, that it's not true..but I'd like to know where their proof is??
They say that the CB aren't out to bring down the players, I'd like to ask where is their proof that they aren't??
They say that the players haven't the best intentions of Cork at heart

..Where's their proof for that, because last time I checked there was overwhelming proof to show otherwise on all 3 counts.

Reillers we have given opinions including yourself. You have not produced any proof only opinion. The nature of your argument is such that there cannot be "proof" either to support or refute your contention in the generally accespted definition of "proof". By the way I have not bitched about the players - I have said they are wrong on this issue.

The "Except for the Secretary" is the vital part, and key to why the GAA in Cork is in such a shambolic state, him and his friends, who like him are fossils and hell bent on keeping Cork the way they want it. In the state it is in, with no effort whatsoever to change it. And INCOMING chairman, is just that incoming, he hopefully will do some good. Would I tell him he's making a hash of things to his face..no, he's just taken up the job, would I tell Frank Murphy, without a shadow of a doubt I'd tell him and therewould be a cue the length of Cork behind me.

Well Reillers the incoming Chairman has been part of the Executive for a considerable time and therefore must bear some of the blame. Are we back to the its all Franlks fault argument. If so then I find it amaziing that one man can exercise such a pervasive and malign influence on every club in Cork. Surely if this is so it is an indictment of everybody involved in GAA in Cork. While I happen to believe that it would be good for Cork if Frank retired I think it is a convenient over simplification tolay the blame for every shortcoming at his door. And since I came to Cork I have a lot of stories about Frank but all have been short of detail and very much of the "Dúirt bean liom" variety. Anyway if I felt as strongly about Frank as you and others do I would at least attempt to propose a motion of  no confidence in him via my club. I asked you previously if you had attempted to submit a motion or raised this issue at any of the club meetings you attend.

We do our best in Cork, at my club anyway, we do our best, and that's all anyone can ask for, I'm not asking for perfect, especially not from the clubs because in Cork they are struggling desperatly, the best is done and we're scraping by, but we're getting by, by a lot of work from everyone, we do our best, I give as much as I can, everyone does, you can't really ask for more from anyone.
But the CB, do what they want to do, and if that's shite, then so what, it's what they say goes. If they refuse to fix our pitch then that's their call, even though, oh the plans are in place..for years..ah sure we'll get around to it one day.  
When I say the best, I mean the best, the CB if they wanted could give us an excellent manager, and an excellent set up, the players are there. But no, instead, they give us nothing special. They could do better, a lot better, but at the end of the day..they don't want to.

Every club is in the same position Reillers as are divisional boards. But why do you think that the officers of the CB are less committed and to quote you "don't want to". You are back in Reillersland now creating a reality to justify your anger and frustration. All CB officials and delegates are also involved in their clubs. Maybe they can do better but I am very reluctant to criticise the efforts of others who are doing a lot more than I am. I know some of these people and saying they do not want to make things better is just plain wrong.

How do you know it's biased?? The Indo is the Indo, I'd say something if it was the Examiner or the Echo, but it's not. He's right, the GAA's version of democracy is not right, it's not democracy. What he's said is true, factually right. People look at something, don't agree with it, so they call it biased and it's been done on here again and again. Could it not be the truth, because that article is pretty bang on. You read two lines of the article and you call it biased.

No Reillers I do not look at something and call it biased because I do not agree with it. But the Indo has not a great record in objectivity and some of its GAA journalists e.g. Breheny have a very jaundiced view on GAA authority. As regards GAA democracy I gave you my views on it and acknowledged its imperfections. However maybe you can explain to me what is wrong with GAA democracy and I will listen.

And the circumstances of that are gone untold again, the team wasn't able to meet last time. Too many commitments, Ga was on holidats and such..

Fair enough but the players would have served their casue better by returning calls or messages rather than leaving a vaccuum. I accept this was unintentional but Ga should have told someone he was going on holidays and that things would have to wait until he came back.

[orangeman]

Reillers  - your latest comment, f--k you, is fairly typical of the attitude of the players and it's possible that someone just like you, with the same blinkered, angry, venemous point of view to all who hold a separate to that of the players, is responsible for getting the players into the mess that they're in.

Negotiation / diplomacy is all about trying to adopt a position - to leave yourself with somewhere to go - to be able to give something and give something back. You've held the view that the players should never go back under Mc Carthy, that he is a liar, a good for nothing, someone who can't and shouldn't be trusted.

The players have adopted the same stance as you - they won't speak only to say that Mc Carthy is a liar, can't be trusted etc etc and that they will NEVER play for him. What room does that leave them ?. None.


And when you're getting it tight and whenever the red mist descends after a raw nerve having been touched, all you can say is you know f--k all, and f--k you. Great stuff.



And by the way, did I hear that Ga has gone on holidays in the middle of the whole handling ?

Why would he do such a thing ?

[Rossfan]

Can this thread be closed soon and leave the Langers to sort out their own situation.
95 pages of long rambling posts and quotes from Reillers and Orangeman ......

[Reillers]

Reillers  - your latest comment, f--k you, is fairly typical of the attitude of the players and it's possible that someone just like you, with the same blinkered, angry, venemous point of view to all who hold a separate to that of the players, is responsible for getting the players into the mess that they're in.

Negotiation / diplomacy is all about trying to adopt a position - to leave yourself with somewhere to go - to be able to give something and give something back. You've held the view that the players should never go back under Mc Carthy, that he is a liar, a good for nothing, someone who can't and shouldn't be trusted.

The players have adopted the same stance as you - they won't speak only to say that Mc Carthy is a liar, can't be trusted etc etc and that they will NEVER play for him. What room does that leave them ?. None.

And everytime McCarthy has come out which has been a hell lot more then the players, he's called the players liars or lied himself. How is that any better??


And when you're getting it tight and whenever the red mist descends after a raw nerve having been touched, all you can say is you know f--k all, and f--k you. Great stuff.

No I say you know f**k all when you ask pathetic questions like who's Pat Horgan or saying Ben and co are in bad form..oh sorry you just....used them....for eh....examples..ya.
Or saying that McCarthy lying is ok, but apparently the players even speaking is not. And they haven't lied. 


And by the way, did I hear that Ga has gone on holidays in the middle of the whole handling ?

Why would he do such a thing ?

Oh I don't know, because people go on holidays, oh is he not aloud such a privalege, and usually shock horror those holidays are booked well in advance of the actual holiday.

AND YET AGAIN YOU DON'T REPLY TO MY POSTS!!!!

....Not like I expect much from this either.

[Zulu]

I haven't read too many posts on this topic recently so I apologise if some of my points have been dealt with but I'm going to sum up why I'm totally behind the players and why I feel the CCB are to blame for this mess. Lots of things have been said and done but I believe that at heart this is a simple dispute but it has a complex solution.

In 2002 the players went on strike due to poor treatment by the CCB, they secured many concessions and went on to justify their stand by providing Cork hurling with its most successful period in a number of years. Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

Now this year they reappoint a manager who has been very unsuccessful by Cork standards, after the players say they're not impressed by his quality and don't have a working relationship with him. They also fail to put forward any other names to discuss, now Limerick had four candidates and Galway had nine (I think) so surely Cork would have at least one other person interested in managing them. I'm involved in coaching myself and if the players I hope to inspire to success have no mass in my methods or abilities then I'd walk away because I know I will never get the best out of them. Likewise if I was on the committee that was selecting the manager I wouldn't reappoint a man that the players didn't like or support because it just wouldn't work so I find it hard to believe that all five CB men were in favour of Gerald and didn't consider anyone else. I believe they did it to anatgonize the players once more and as such they don't warrant the support of any GAA man anywhere inthe country.

I have serious issues with many CB's but as long as i believe they are doing their best for the GAA in their county then they're alright by me but the evidence is the CCB are not working for Cork GAA rather they are engaged in a tit for tat battle with the hurlers and it is the CCB who are repeatedly starting it. I'd appreciate it if any pro CCB posters could justify how they can support the CB in light of this or explain to me where I'm wrong.

[Reillers]

A better way with words then I have. Pretty much hit it bang on the head..again.

That is what I mean by some backing, by proof as such.

[Tatler Jack]

Then in 2007 the CCB tried to undo one of the concessions won by the player's, the right of the manager (not the player's) to pick his own selectors. They justified this by claiming it was to help the club game, if we take them at face value that means that rather than being upright, honest men and telling the county managers that they would have to work within a system that allows club games to prosper, they were going to burden the county manager with a bunch of CB yes men. Last year the CCB were either going to tamper with a successful system for the clubs in an underhanded way or to antagonize the players. So the CCB were either idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded IMO.

We have disagreed before Zulu and I am not going back over old ground. I know you support the players and like others in Cork have a view of the CB that is negative. However I do think that your simplistic conclusion on what led to last years strike deserves clarification for others on this board.

At a CB meeting (think it was Oct '07) Bob Honohan proposed a motion that in future selectors would be appointed by the CB and not by the manager. His proposal was based on an argument that management of county teams had become totally seperate from the CB and this was detrimental to the club scene especially with regard to fixtures. His proposal was supported by a very large majority (I forget the exact number). At a subsequent meeting after the players had threatened strike the delegates to the CB again supported the motion.

For what its worth I think the motion was ill advised and would do nothing to sort problems with club fixtures. But I do not believe that it was done to annoy the players or that there was anything underhand.  Unlike you Zulu (and Reillers) I respect other peoples views and I respect the views of the delegates who voted for this. And the delegates who voted for this are not sheep who just vote for anything proposed - they voted based on what they thought best for Cork GAA. These are the facts as to what happened - you may interpret it as idiotic and cowardly or mischevious and small minded but I believe it was well intentioned though mistaken. I might also add that I do not believe that the right of managers to appoint selectors is sacrosant and written in stone - some managers just appoint a few yes men around them. A better system would be that when managers are appointed that they also have their backroom team approved at the same time.