McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[AZOffaly]

Zulu, I don't think that last point is what he's getting at. The fact that there are hurlers in Cork willing to play under McCarthy does not alter the fact that the best hurlers in the county feel he is inadequate, and that he reappointment was a farce, but it is a bit of a blow to their position, because the board knows that if all else fails, there are others who will play. Which is as it should be in my opinion.

However, I do agree that if Cork get hockeyed this year with a team of make weights, the ire of the Cork GAA publc will be directed more towards the County Board for not getting this solved. The fact that they seem to be a major part of the problem will not help them solve it, without hara kiri.

[Zulu]

Good post AZ and I would agree with much of it, one of the main roles of a CB should be to provide the playing talent with the best support they can find (and afford). The reappointment of Gerald after an unsuccessful onfield tenure and a disfunctional off field one indicates to me a CB less interested in supporting their county team than with annoying it. The appointment of Teddy McCarthy as selector just adds to the farce that is this process.

Re your second post AZ, I'm not sure it is any kind of real blow, we don't know why these players agreed to play i.e it could have been as much to do with not letting down the organisers of the game, who put a massive effort into it, as it has to do with going against the Cork players. Either way this is November but if these sme lads are still representing Cork in summer and they come up against Kilkenny/Tipp and get hammered you can be sure the heat will be on the CCB.

[passedit]

I'm not a player power man, my record speaks for itself on that, but I do believe in fairness, and I think, from what I have gathered, that this was an exercise and a power play by the Cork Board, who have probably correctly estimated the level of annoyance among the general populace for what sounds, on the face of it, like 'Another Bloody Cork Strike'.

I think the players are far from blameless, but the county board, in my opinion, spoiled for this fight and deliberately disrespected the players to force it through.

And just in case they hadn't poked the hornets nest hard enough.

The appointment of Teddy McCarthy as selector just adds to the farce that is this process.

[orangeman]

Zulu - AZ's post is a good one and I agree with a lot of it but  ultimately there has to be some semblance of order and the players are going about their protest in the wrong way. Whatever sympathy they had at the start of this saga disappeared the day Sean Og asked Mc Carthy why he wanted hassle at his time of day.

The stakes have been raised by each side but the insistence of the plyers that they will retire before they play for Mc Carthy was an unhelpful and ill advised piece of gambling.

I'd love to see Sean Og and all these lads playing and I do think that as it is only November that the players will see sense and return to the fold, helped by Mc Carthy making a few changes to his set up.

I agree with AZ in that once you lose the changing room it is well nigh impossible to get it back again and I think Mc Carthy will stay on out of pride rather be hounded out of the job just like the way Holland was hunted down last year.

Yes the county board might be accused of being sly in that they have judged to a T the feeling of the general public - i.e that they are sick, sore and tired of hearing of strikes - remember the hurlers are not coming from a postion of strength having not won anything recently.

I still maintain that is highly significant that the footballers have not joined the strike. Perhaps they learned more from last year than the hurlers - perhaps the hurlers thought / think that they can click their fingers and everybody will come running - maybe that did happen once upon a time but not any more.


I'm curious to find out what you think the outcome of this is going to be - has anyone any suggestions in this regard ?? I'd love to find out what your opinions are with regard to a potential resolution.


And please don't say, we're not going to play until Mc Carthy leaves - cos I think we all know that this isn't going to happen.

[Reillers]

Give it up man for Christ sake. You have repeatedly been unable to justify your position and have consistently avoided answering questions or elaborating on your basic point. You have probably posted more on this thread than anyone else yet you haven't developed a supported opinion in all that time. Now you and heffo are suggesting that it's time to move on because Cork can field a team for a challenge match, Jesus wept! This is far from over, in fact it is only beginning and there will be many twists and turns yet. Your simplistic analysis has continuously ignored every nuance of this debate, that I'm afraid, is the only typical characteristic of this debate.

Ok - coming from a player's perspective I'd expect the kind of response you've just so eloguently delivered - we're right and everybody else is wrong.

So what are you going to do now ??

Mass protest like last year ??


Turn the floodlights off whenever the new kids are training ?

Form a picket line and heckle those who pass it ?

Continue to intimidate the younger lads ??

The more and more I read your posts (and others on here) the more I realise how petty some of ye are and how little, if any respect you have for any of them.
You are just obsessed with causing trouble.
You refuse to listen to what anyone else has to say..and I'm not saying just me, because it's grand not to agree with my oppinion or anyone elses for that matter but if players say it, pundits say it..etc. you still don't listen. You almost completley ignore the it.
You ignore questions asked to you.
You say you have some idea of what is going on in the running of Cork GAA but you come out with stupid comments which clearly shows otherwise.

It's just simply petty at times.

[orangeman]

Give it up man for Christ sake. You have repeatedly been unable to justify your position and have consistently avoided answering questions or elaborating on your basic point. You have probably posted more on this thread than anyone else yet you haven't developed a supported opinion in all that time. Now you and heffo are suggesting that it's time to move on because Cork can field a team for a challenge match, Jesus wept! This is far from over, in fact it is only beginning and there will be many twists and turns yet. Your simplistic analysis has continuously ignored every nuance of this debate, that I'm afraid, is the only typical characteristic of this debate.

Ok - coming from a player's perspective I'd expect the kind of response you've just so eloguently delivered - we're right and everybody else is wrong.

So what are you going to do now ??

Mass protest like last year ??


Turn the floodlights off whenever the new kids are training ?

Form a picket line and heckle those who pass it ?

Continue to intimidate the younger lads ??

The more and more I read your posts (and others on here) the more I realise how petty some of ye are and how little, if any respect you have for any of them.
You are just obsessed with causing trouble.
You refuse to listen to what anyone else has to say..and I'm not saying just me, because it's grand not to agree with my oppinion or anyone elses for that matter but if players say it, pundits say it..etc. you still don't listen. You almost completley ignore the it.
You ignore questions asked to you.
You say you have some idea of what is going on in the running of Cork GAA but you come out with stupid comments which clearly shows otherwise.

It's just simply petty at times.

Have you never anything else to say apart from - "oh you don't know what you're talking about - I know it all - it's just not me that's saying it , it's the rest of the universe, the county board have stitched us up, mc Carthy is a legend but a liar, you're so stupid, you don't have a clue what you're on about "


Please change the record !!!

[Zulu]

Zulu - AZ's post is a good one and I agree with a lot of it but  ultimately there has to be some semblance of order and the players are going about their protest in the wrong way.

What other option did they have? They went on strike in 2002 because of the poor support structures the CB provided, as a result they won certain concessions, including the right of the manager to pick his own selectors. Then last year the CB tried to revoke that even though Cork had contested all the post 2002 AI's, the CCB lost that battle too. So what did they do this year? They reappoint a man the players clearly state they can't work under, now if he had an impressive record I could see how they might have an argument for reappointing him but he didn't, so the only logical conclusion is that the CCB aren't making decisions based on what's best for Cork GAA.  

Yes the county board might be accused of being sly in that they have judged to a T the feeling of the general public - i.e that they are sick, sore and tired of hearing of strikes - remember the hurlers are not coming from a postion of strength having not won anything recently.

I still maintain that is highly significant that the footballers have not joined the strike. Perhaps they learned more from last year than the hurlers - perhaps the hurlers thought / think that they can click their fingers and everybody will come running - maybe that did happen once upon a time but not any more.

Look right is right IMO, of course we are all tired of the whole thing but it is very wrong for GAA people to side with the CB just because they are sick of the this issue resurfacing. You and some others have implied that the players are in this for the profile and all that goes with it, IMO that is a disgraceful and wholely unfounded suggestion. These players have battled for the Cork jersey ever since they first wore it and have represented Cork admirably. The footballers haven't sided with the hurlers in this largely because unlike the last two 'strikes' there is no common link. This time the hurlers are not playing becasue the CB deliberately slapped them in the face by ignoring their opinion on Gerald, however the last two strikes were over issues which affected both squads. I'm sure the footballers totally support the hurlers but getting involved on an issue which has little to do with them mighten help matters in any way.

As for how this will all pan out, I don't honestly know but I hope good, honest GAA people will start to wake up to the incompetence of many of our CB's and start demanding they do what's best for the GAA in their county. Cork are far from the only county lumbered with a CB with skewed values, unfortunately for them they just have the most pig headed and petty one.

[heffo]

Zulu - AZ's post is a good one and I agree with a lot of it but  ultimately there has to be some semblance of order and the players are going about their protest in the wrong way.

What other option did they have? They went on strike in 2002 because of the poor support structures the CB provided, as a result they won certain concessions, including the right of the manager to pick his own selectors. Then last year the CB tried to revoke that even though Cork had contested all the post 2002 AI's, the CCB lost that battle too. So what did they do this year? They reappoint a man the players clearly state they can't work under, now if he had an impressive record I could see how they might have an argument for reappointing him but he didn't, so the only logical conclusion is that the CCB aren't making decisions based on what's best for Cork GAA.  

Yes the county board might be accused of being sly in that they have judged to a T the feeling of the general public - i.e that they are sick, sore and tired of hearing of strikes - remember the hurlers are not coming from a postion of strength having not won anything recently.

I still maintain that is highly significant that the footballers have not joined the strike. Perhaps they learned more from last year than the hurlers - perhaps the hurlers thought / think that they can click their fingers and everybody will come running - maybe that did happen once upon a time but not any more.

You and some others have implied that the players are in this for the profile and all that goes with it, IMO that is a disgraceful and wholely unfounded suggestion. These players have battled for the Cork jersey ever since they first wore it and have represented Cork admirably.

If that's directed towards me, I'd like to clarify any remarks I made

I would never for a second suggest that they were motivated by their commercial profile - I've never heard a bad word about any of the Cork players from friends I know who would have a lot of dealings with the panel and I've admired them all for their skill and the enjoyment they give their fellow GAA members who can watch them play.

However, I know for a fact that one high profile member of the panel made €250k two years ago in a twelve month period from commercial activities arising solely out of his Cork hurling career - the best of luck to him, but he earned that money because of the GAA - from coaches at U8 level who taught him how to puck the ball, etc etc - he has his profile solely because he was blessed with the talent and he was rewarded with the opportunity to represent Cork.

I've read all the arguments from the players - archaic drills, poor pre-match meals, not knowing players clubs etc, but at the end of the day IMO the players don't have the right to decide who wags the tail and if they feel they don't want to work under a genuine GAA legend in McCarthy, then they should walk away and allow others the opportunity they were afforded.

I respect your opinion, but the belief from the overwhelming majority of GAA people I speak to (who are informed and don't derive all their knowledge on the issue from Frank Murphy press releases) is the same.

The fact that Croke park have washed their hands of it and that Cork trained with a panel of 31 and are evidently fielding the same players this Sunday leads me to conclude that the CB are talking a stand (rightly or wrongly) on it and are prepared to field a weakened panel for the NFL & Championship if needs be..

[heffo]

Slightly off topic, but Franco is 65 this year - any sign of him hanging up his notebook?

[Zulu]

For the record my comment wasn't directed at you heffo but like last year many posters seem to think that this group of Cork players are too big for their boots, they accuse them of believing they are more important than the rest of us and they don't accept the democratic process and all this is based on their willingness to stand up to the CCB. Yet nobody disputes the dishonourable actions of the CCB over the past 6 years and nobody in Cork thinks they are doing a good job of promoting the GAA, every genuine GAA person should thank the Cork players for the stand they are making (though there are distasteful aspects to it) because they are standing up to the small minded, petty and destructful actions of administrators who have lost sight of the reason they are there in the first place.
                     I find it amazing that the players can be vilified on the basis' of money when Frank Murphy has presided over an unprecedented level of disharmony in Cork GAA, a crumbling PUC, the erosion of school GAA (esp. in the city), the weakening of the standard of club football and hurling and the collapse of underage football and hurling (esp.) at county level while being a paid employee of the GAA. The only thing FM seems to be very good at is undermining the rules of his employers which he seems to do without compunction.

By the way I say all this as a player, coach and administrator in the GAA so I can, to a degree, understand the difficulties of all sides but I have also experienced the sham democracy and self serving attitude of too many committee men to have much respect for the democratic process. There is a cancer at the heart of the GAA alright but it isn't player power or the GPA and it will be much harder to eradicate

[orangeman]

For the record my comment wasn't directed at you heffo but like last year many posters seem to think that this group of Cork players are too big for their boots, they accuse them of believing they are more important than the rest of us and they don't accept the democratic process and all this is based on their willingness to stand up to the CCB. Yet nobody disputes the dishonourable actions of the CCB over the past 6 years and nobody in Cork thinks they are doing a good job of promoting the GAA, every genuine GAA person should thank the Cork players for the stand they are making (though there are distasteful aspects to it) because they are standing up to the small minded, petty and destructful actions of administrators who have lost sight of the reason they are there in the first place.
                     I find it amazing that the players can be vilified on the basis' of money when Frank Murphy has presided over an unprecedented level of disharmony in Cork GAA, a crumbling PUC, the erosion of school GAA (esp. in the city), the weakening of the standard of club football and hurling and the collapse of underage football and hurling (esp.) at county level while being a paid employee of the GAA. The only thing FM seems to be very good at is undermining the rules of his employers which he seems to do without compunction.

By the way I say all this as a player, coach and administrator in the GAA so I can, to a degree, understand the difficulties of all sides but I have also experienced the sham democracy and self serving attitude of too many committee men to have much respect for the democratic process. There is a cancer at the heart of the GAA alright but it isn't player power or the GPA and it will be much harder to eradicate

1. What is this cancer you refer to ?

2. Have the Cork players ever had a real serious self examination of their own actions and performances as past few years ? If they did, they'd be bit more circumspect - but as usual, it's the manager's fault.

[Zulu]

1. I thought I made that fairly clear in my previous posts but to further clarify, I refer to the CB's and committee men up and down the country (with some exceptions) who......

build stadiums/white elephants and then don't even do a good job on them (GG V Thomond park),

who suspend their club championships for the whole summer and expect club players to play the biggest games of their lives in muck and shit,

who suspend club players for the same thing they fought tooth and nail to get IC players off for during the summer,

who engage in petty score settling with the very players they should be assisting (see Cork)

who often don't promote the GAA in their own counties, by highlighting their club games, rewarding regulars on the club scene with tickets for the big IC matches, employing development officers for schools and areas where the GAA is weak etc.

who don't produce fixture lists for the club championships and stick to them as much as possible,

who treat the weaker code in their county with contempt,

.... I could go on but I think you get the point.


2. You suggested recently that the players should come out and admit that they aren't up to it anymore but you eventually had to take that back when it was shown up to be the bullshit that it is, so what are you referring to here?

[orangeman]

1. I thought I made that fairly clear in my previous posts but to further clarify, I refer to the CB's and committee men up and down the country (with some exceptions) who......

build stadiums/white elephants and then don't even do a good job on them (GG V Thomond park),

who suspend their club championships for the whole summer and expect club players to play the biggest games of their lives in muck and shit,

who suspend club players for the same thing they fought tooth and nail to get IC players off for during the summer,

who engage in petty score settling with the very players they should be assisting (see Cork)

who often don't promote the GAA in their own counties, by highlighting their club games, rewarding regulars on the club scene with tickets for the big IC matches, employing development officers for schools and areas where the GAA is weak etc.

who don't produce fixture lists for the club championships and stick to them as much as possible,

who treat the weaker code in their county with contempt,

.... I could go on but I think you get the point.


2. You suggested recently that the players should come out and admit that they aren't up to it anymore but you eventually had to take that back when it was shown up to be the bullshit that it is, so what are you referring to here?

[/b]

Who says it's BS ? You ? Reillers ??

[Zulu]

Is that yet another question? I don't think it is possible to discuss this with you any longer, you simply ignore the points raised and return to your one single mantra. Everyone on the players side of the debate has repeatedly admitted that the players share some of the blame and have behaved poorly on occasion yet you constantly come out with things like this...

But all you can say is that everybody is wrong apart from you.

[passedit]

Zulu,i refer you to the biffs signature.http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=520