McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[orangeman]

Has anyone else ever heard of a group of players and a manager needing a facilitator to communicate between the two sides in the middle of the season

Quite unbelieveable. The players must be a real nightmare

The whole thing has turned into quite a nightmare !

[cicfada]

When this dispute broke out into the public domain recently there was an article on Mc Carthy's coaching methods and why they wanted not to have him as coach, now it's all about the board. Now I know what the board's reputation is but surely the players have to admit some culpability here. Leaking to Kieran Shannon about Mc Carthy not knowing which club Timmy Mc is with  etc. It takes 2 to tango and the players should show some humility somewhere along the line! I feel sorry for St Colmans not being able to have their match as it looks likely now! 150th anniversary match down the tubes unless something quickly happens!

[orangeman]

When this dispute broke out into the public domain recently there was an article on Mc Carthy's coaching methods and why they wanted not to have him as coach, now it's all about the board. Now I know what the board's reputation is but surely the players have to admit some culpability here. Leaking to Kieran Shannon about Mc Carthy not knowing which club Timmy Mc is with  etc. It takes 2 to tango and the players should show some humility somewhere along the line! I feel sorry for St Colmans not being able to have their match as it looks likely now! 150th anniversary match down the tubes unless something quickly happens!

In Ireland for about 35 years, people were accused of being things they were not and paid a very, very high price for being labelled like this. Some people made an accusation that suited their own agenda, others carried it on and ultimately innocent people were tried by judge, jury and executioner. We've found out years later the accusers in some instances were the guily ones and not those who had already paid very dearly.

Who is to say that the stories about Mc Carthy are true or not ? Who is to say that Gerald is just the subject of a smear campaign, a dirty tricks campaign or whatever you want to call it ?.

Stranger things have indeed happened.

[Kerry Mike]

if KerryMike or someone similar came on here calling Ally Elliot or Dick O'Kane a w**ker

FFS I called them Langers not Wankers, there is a difference.

As for the Antrim crowd they are the biggest shower of langers outside of Cork 

[Reillers]

I know Cork players aren't the most liked players in the country, which is an understatement, but you can't question their passion and love for playing for their county, their saying is that "We have 2 cubs"..that's how much it means to them, they are a really close group that have been together for years, they make kids who come in feel like they've been there for years, it allows them to addapt so quickly, see Naughton, Horgan..etc. But you can't question their commitment and passion for it, look at the Galway game, look at the celebrations after that and tell me that was them not caring, wanting money..etc. That was passion, commitment, heart.

But they aren't the most liked and this was before all this happened, but it's absolutely hillarious, no actually I think it's unbelivably unfair that ye judge the players..
Cicfada..you criticize the players for "leaking" about Gerald's training. All they said is that they thought it was poor, that they were standing around too much. That was telling the truth, the players told the truth and that isn't my oppinion it's the truth, they told the truth about how shocking the training was.
You fail to mention the document, the PRIVATE and CONFIDENTIAL document that the players asked to get to clear the air, they asked him to come in to help clear the air..they HAD to write down PERSONAL POSITIVE comments about Gerald Mac, that was then binded and the ONE and ONLY copy of it was given to Gerald Mac. I'm sorry he's a legend he is, but there's only ONE way that that could have gotten out and that is from him. Not only was it put into the press, but it was used as a weapon against them, it shattered what little trust was left, there was, after that, NO coming back from that.

And there is only one person who could have leaked that document and regretably that was Gerald.

But some of ye are so hell bent on bashing the players, on criticising and villianising them that ye don't admit or wont admit, that what Gerald did was so far beyond the line, there was absolutely NO coming back from that whatsoever, he didn't cross the line he bungijumped over it, he blew past it like it wasn't there, not, like I said just telling the truth, now either ye can't see it or wont admit it but what Gerald did was 100 times worse then the players telling how how training was to the press.

Now I know the players are loosing the media war, Gerald is playing a blinder, but again ye are so hell bent on blaming the players that ye are willing to believe that the players are making it all up, but he don't stop and think for a minute that Gerald could be or God forbid the players telling the truth.

Now no, don't try to say oh we're not villanising the players here with no proof or fact, cause ye are. Ye could atleast have the balls to admit it instead of "debating" all the time when really no matter what they say ye wont believe them.

Oh the players are lying, oh Gerald is a saint, the County board can't be that bad, we all have bad CBs. Just admit it will ye because it would save a lot of our time. Because when it comes to it, ye wont give the players the time of day, right or wrong.

[theskull1]

Now no, don't try to say oh we're not villanising the players here with no proof or fact, cause ye are. Ye could atleast have the balls to admit it instead of "debating" all the time when really no matter what they say ye wont believe them.

Oh the players are lying, oh Gerald is a saint, the County board can't be that bad, we all have bad CBs. Just admit it will ye because it would save a lot of our time. Because when it comes to it, ye wont give the players the time of day, right or wrong.

The constant predisposition to conflict from the main protaganists and their lack of respect for the individuals trying to facilitate them is enough for me Reillers. There may very well be wrongs on each side but they players have shamed themselves by their behaviour and deserve the distain that the vast majority of gaels have for them IMO

[Reillers]

Now no, don't try to say oh we're not villanising the players here with no proof or fact, cause ye are. Ye could atleast have the balls to admit it instead of "debating" all the time when really no matter what they say ye wont believe them.

Oh the players are lying, oh Gerald is a saint, the County board can't be that bad, we all have bad CBs. Just admit it will ye because it would save a lot of our time. Because when it comes to it, ye wont give the players the time of day, right or wrong.

The constant predisposition to conflict from the main protaganists and their lack of respect for the individuals trying to facilitate them is enough for me Reillers. There may very well be wrongs on each side but they players have shamed themselves by their behaviour and deserve the distain that the vast majority of gaels have for them IMO

You've proved my point in one short post Skull.

The players have shamed themselves by their behaviour, what about Gerald, what about that document being leaked to the press, because in my oppinion out of all the things that have said and done over this, leaking that document was by far the worst. People on the outside think oh pathetic players, toys pram..etc. But everyone who has half a clue genuinely see where the players are coming from and the right in what they are fighting for, they may not have don't it the right way, but their reasons for it are just and tha'ts what everyone who has a half an idea of what's going on, thinks.
But the players have shamed themselves?? What about Gerald, you and a lot of people on here always go, there MAY (ye don't even go as far as admiting there is, ye question it despite it being blatantly obvious) be some wrongs on the part of the CCB and Gerald, but the players..the devil incarnate and the violin starts.  
Ye don't and wont give them the time of day, and it's not to do with this because if ye honestly had a half idea of what's going on ye'd have sympathy for the players, but ye wont give them the time of day.

Lets talk about Gerald Mac for a second, a great player, and once upon a time a great manager too. But lets look at his motives for a second. You've got to wonder what the hell he's playing at,

He had to be shoved into the job in 06, he did not want it at all, he really, really didn't, and he was pretty much forced to take it..the lads the players wanted to get te job, the people who had been involved in a winning, succesful Cork side, 4 AI finals, Munster finals..etc weren't even considered or interviewed.
Gerald absolutley did not want this job back then. But was given it..which is when the Empire began to fight back, they were taking the control back and this was their first move, which was quickly followed by their next which led to the strike..breaking, blatantly breaking part of the deal made in 2002.

Anyway, back to Gerald..Then after two very unsuccesful years in Cork standards, (after every man and his dog thought he'd get fired but didn't)he suddenly now, after all of this, all of a sudden he's hell bent on keeping it. After been dragged into the job in 2006,that all of a sudden he's mad for it in 2008.
Please this isn't about him wanting the job and the best for Cork, he's staying in this out of spite, because his pride was hurt, he was stung. He's suddenly hell bent on keeping it. For a man who really didn't want it, 26 out of 28 players dont want him to coach next year why bother. Like thiings were so bad last season between Gerald and his players that a facilitator was needed to get both parties through to the end of the season..why all this hassle from a man who didn't want this job 2 years ago, his pride was hurt and there's no way he's backing down because of that.


And now ALL OF A SUDDEN, he has a grand plan for the future of Cork Hurling.
Where's his motive for all of this..I find it very hard to see beyond just getting one back, because the players said they didn't want him back, said he wasn't good enough..ye might say, right on Gerald, fair play, stand up to them..etc. but that's still not having the best interest in Cork. Atleast the players have a reason for refusing to play, they really do want the best for Cork hurling, because they are willing to walk away. Something Gerald isn't.

I am not questioning his love of Cork and all the things he's done, but I feel at this stage he's staying in this for the wrong reasons, while the players are fighting it for the right reasons..something which ye ignore or don't see.

[Reillers]

Now no, don't try to say oh we're not villanising the players here with no proof or fact, cause ye are. Ye could atleast have the balls to admit it instead of "debating" all the time when really no matter what they say ye wont believe them.

Oh the players are lying, oh Gerald is a saint, the County board can't be that bad, we all have bad CBs. Just admit it will ye because it would save a lot of our time. Because when it comes to it, ye wont give the players the time of day, right or wrong.

The constant predisposition to conflict from the main protaganists and their lack of respect for the individuals trying to facilitate them is enough for me Reillers. There may very well be wrongs on each side but they players have shamed themselves by their behaviour and deserve the distain that the vast majority of gaels have for them IMO

How about the lack of respect they're getting..do ya care about that......but, but, but, but, the players are 100 times worse is the attitude you have.
You fail to look at it with two eyes, ya I'm one for talking, but I've said 100 times over that their actions are wrong but reasons are right.
They are getting no respect, they never have. They've NEVER EVER had any respect from the CCB. Every single AI win they've had has been down to them and and them alone, and they honestly believe, I honestly believe that it was inspite of the board that they won. They have had to fight a hell of a lot harder then KK or Tipp or Waterford..etc. for basic needs like gear, faciities..etc. They won inspite of the board and the board almost resents them for winning because they feel that they weren't involved in the win as much as they would have liked, because like I said the only role they played was motivating the players by hate.
Do the players not get any respect for that, the way they are treated is unbelivable, and finaly, finaly someone-Donal Og has come out and said that we all know what thisi was about, what everyone has been saying but not been written down, that it's all about getting rid of the core senior players.
That took balls, that deserves respect because that right there, there might be coming back from this if there's a solution made, but that right there from Donal Og was his resignation, he'll NEVER play in a Cork jersey, eve again barring some miracle, he'll never play again..someone had to say it, by saying it it would mean falling with it, he said it and that is Donal Og gone. You don't realise that but it's true. Does that deserve respect. Of course not because he's a player and God forbid that the players could be given some respect around here.
I can say with almost certainty that we'll never see him in a Cork geansai again. He took a bullet and it's the kind of one that he wont get up from..when the smoke clears from this he'll probably be gone.

Ye talk about a legend that Gerald is and such..what about the legends that the players in the dispute are. But that doesn't matter because all ye want is to have a bitching session about the players, irrelevant of the facts or mounting evidence.
No respect at all for 30 people who are working men with families who are taking on some of the most corrupt men in the GAA despite the slaughtering they're getting in the press, it would be so much easier on them if they just walked away now, but they will stand tall together, united to the end and if it comes to it, united they will fall, together as one, something that Gerald and the board aren't willing to do.

And that action and that action alone, show if ye think about it, who cares more..who are the ones willing to walk away for the good of Cork hurling. It's not Gerald and it sure as hell is the board.


"It's just very, very disappointing because from a player's perspective, I can only give them the best possible character reference, because I know it's not about power, it's not about ego, it's not about personalities.

"They have a genuine desire to be the best they can be and bring success to Cork, and under that regime they certainly couldn't do that."..Dessie Farrell on Cork.
(Usually I don't have the time of day for this man, can't stand him, but he's right here..and every single person who knows the players or the inside works of Cork GAA have come out on side of the players when it comes to the board..there's a reason for that.,maybe if ye stopped criticizng the players for one second and thought about that ye'd see that, that not a sinlge person, who knows the inside of Cork GAA, who isn't in the boards pocket, has come out on the side of the board..why is that, have ye ever thought of that, I know the hell bent posters with vendettas will turn around and say oh cause they're all friends with the players, but maybe, just maybe there's a little bit more to it then that.

[theskull1]

Reillers I have said there may well be wrongs on both sides but I don't share your view that the players are the victims in all of this. You know you and I are never going to agree, so I wouldn't try too hard. I've made my mind up.

[Reillers]

Reillers I have said there may well be wrongs on both sides but I don't share your view that the players are the victims in all of this. You know you and I are never going to agree, so I wouldn't try too hard. I've made my mind up.

But you wont even look at it, that's what annoys me so much that you and Billy and co. wont even look at the facts and the truth, ye just side against the players, ye hate them that much and no matter what they do, it still wont be right.
Don't try to wash it down saying you've said that both sides are wrong because it's always come with a..but the playres are more wrong..atleast have the balls to admit that instead of trying to water it down, because some of ye, most of ye, aren't open for debate on this, because no matter what, no matter what they do, the players are wrong, and that's that..atleast have the balls to admit that.

[INDIANA]

I can see their reasons Reillers and if you se my earlier posts I had some sympathy for them. It's very difficult for players to play with a manager they believe is sub-standard. We've all done it at club level at some point. I have and i didn't enjoy it, they were wasted years. But they've lost the plot in the last few weeks, and thats why they've so little support. As mid-louth said above, whats the debate about anymore?
Its gone from being about Gerald Mc Carthy, to the young players, to the county board, to the club game, for the money(or not yet anyway) etc etc. The message has been lost during the week and the public have responded accordingly to the point, where your average Gaa punter doesn;t care what their problems are anymore.
The needed to hammer home the message that this was about their opinion being Mc carthy being a poor coach , and they failed to do so.
They also underestimated that to the general Cork public Mc Carthy is a living legend. this is a guy remember who'd tackle a moving articulated lorry for Cork hurling when he played. Now so would some of the current Cork players, but they seriously underestimated the level of respect Cork people have for Gerald Mc Carthy.
And the final reason why they lost the debate is this. At no stage have they acknowledged their own shortcomings on the field of play in the last 2 years.
Had they go they got their message across properly, it could have been very different. Instead its a monster they can't control. And God knows where its going to end now.

[Reillers]

I can see their reasons Reillers and if you se my earlier posts I had some sympathy for them. It's very difficult for players to play with a manager they believe is sub-standard. We've all done it at club level at some point. I have and i didn't enjoy it, they were wasted years. But they've lost the plot in the last few weeks, and thats why they've so little support. As mid-louth said above, whats the debate about anymore?
Its gone from being about Gerald Mc Carthy, to the young players, to the county board, to the club game, for the money(or not yet anyway) etc etc. The message has been lost during the week and the public have responded accordingly to the point, where your average Gaa punter doesn;t care what their problems are anymore.
The needed to hammer home the message that this was about their opinion being Mc carthy being a poor coach , and they failed to do so.
They also underestimated that to the general Cork public Mc Carthy is a living legend. this is a guy remember who'd tackle a moving articulated lorry for Cork hurling when he played. Now so would some of the current Cork players, but they seriously underestimated the level of respect Cork people have for Gerald Mc Carthy.
And the final reason why they lost the debate is this. At no stage have they acknowledged their own shortcomings on the field of play in the last 2 years.
Had they go they got their message across properly, it could have been very different. Instead its a monster they can't control. And God knows where its going to end now.

No see ye are just listening to the media, the players have lost the PR battle that is so obvious like. But if ye took two seconds to unravel what's going on here instead of saying oh we've all had to deal with managers we don't like..when it's not even about the manager, which is my point in the first place, some of ye don't or just wont listen, it's been said over and over again that it's not about Gerald Mac personally it's about what the board did about Gerald Mac.
And then ye go on saying it's about Kilkenny and not being up to it anymore when again that, despite it being said 100 times over from people who know things and are aware of the situation, ye continue to say. The players no better then anyone about their shortcomings on the field, but it's not brought up because it's not about that.
It was ALWAYS about the board, both sides have used McCarthy as a battering ram but he's been shoved out of the way by the players cause they've the balls to admit what this is really about.

I know ye are sick of it, I know that, but it ye bothered reading the small print, the players are in a position which they appreciate very few have had the patience to unravel..but just try to, please.
But just please..think with ye're heads, not yere hearts in this one, for one minute leave bias out, leave the hate of the players out, leave ye're impressions of the media warfare to one side for 2 mins.. I realise I've been short with a lot of ye, snapping at ye for not giving the players the time of day, but I know that ye've had it up to here, I get that. Just for 2 mins forget all of that.

Just think, really, really think..like why is it that everyone who has an idea of Cork behind the scenes or anyone who has worked with the players back them in this, back them against the board..have ye thought why that is..it's because they are aware of things like this....

"In the end the board put us together again with a manager that they knew we had needed a facilitator to work with during the championship season," says Cusack. "They forced us back together with a guy that they knew players had great difficulties working with. That's the incredible thing here.

"That is not a process. Is there any county board in the country who would force two sides back together again after all that?"-Donal Og..do ye not understand the gravity of that??


There is still time for the players to gather their heads and get their message out and maybe this time through Tom Humphries the man just has a way with words and they've his backing. One hard hitting statement would get the players back in the good books, but the problem is that they never wanted this dragged into a PR match, if anything because they know it makes things 100 times worse and that they'll loose it.
The players aren't good with the media, they are hurlers not lads who deal with the media battles day in day out. Donal Og is the only one who can and the problem there is that the second the name Donal Og comes up and the judgement is made all ready..it doesn't matter what he says, how true or rellevant it is, it's who's saying it that matters.

SOmething like this..please READ this, don't scan through it, read word for word this article, and maybe then ye willl see it, this is more calm from the players when they don't feel like they've to articulate every word, this is more relaxed and better really.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/1108/1225925566046.html..it was posted earlier but please I'm asking ye to not just read this, fine comb it.
Please just leave out the bias and give men who have given so much to their county over the past decade 2 minutes of your time without prejudice or personal agendas or vendetas.

[INDIANA]

Wouldn't mate, they lost the battle at this stage. too many mixed messages and conflicting statements and that prime time appearance probably finished it. If it was about the Board they should have said so at the start. The fact is they didn't and as a result the message has been lost in between. As long as it doesn't delay the national league your average Gaa pundit doesn't care anymore. The fact that the footballers are happy enough hasn't strengthened their case. Hard to know how it will end at this stage. but could take cork years to recover if its prolonged much more. something all parties have to take some responsibility for.

[Reillers]

Did you read my post, besides 3 sentences of it??

And Cork GAA..football and hurling will not move till Murphy leaves.
If it's stuck like this it's not all parties fault, the players are willing to walk away. That would put us back a season or two but if we're honest a few weren't going to last much longer anyway.
It's the boards statue like state which continues to put us back, if this panel of players go and another 30 come in, 3 years later we'll have the same thing all over again. None of this at all is helped by having a poor manager.

[Reillers]

Oh and something that is really, really begginning to annoy me about this is Gerald Mac's attempt to play the great saviour of Cork hurling. Suddenly he's all the answers, the key to Cork hurling's future..which is bull, because unless it is a tape that will blackmail Murphy and Co. out of the board then I very much doubt it.

This great big plan for the development of Cork hurling which he suddenly holds the key too, ya right..for fecks sake it couldn't be a more contrived statement than if the CCB dreamt it up themselves...oh hang on.
Its bloody politics he should have got into when he stopped playing because he's playing the public for as bucnh of fools and the public are worse for falling for it..this I've got brilliant ideas and poor me act..it's more then annoying at this stage.
The big 'song and dance' routine is old at this stage. IMO there is a whole smokescreen going on here and like an iceberg we are only seeing the tip. What we can't see going on is a lot more dangerous.
There is no solution to this, either he stays or goes, but the players wont and can't come back while he's there, like how can any of the 30 or so players face Gerald again in a dressing room and have any belief or confidence in him or vice versa. The whole thing just doesn't make sense. The goalposts have moved under all this and sadly, because everyone in the general public are sympathising with him, no one has seen it. He's put up such a smokescreen, a big song and dance and the public have fallen for it hook line and sinker. The only people with REAL good intentions here are the players and they aren't given the time of day.

At the end of the day Gerald is not good enough to manage Cork at the moment, which should have been the end of argument there, but sadly that was never an issue.